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DuncanIdaho Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 17197 Location: In a no-ship
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Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, DJ lost Cejudo fought a brilliant fight. |
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22 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 17063
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Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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Yup, can’t leave it in the judges hands.
I would have had it split for dj or a draw. Cejudo got the take downs but did no damage from them and no submission threat.
Cejudo smart to immediately want to challenge for the 135 lb title |
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eureca Franchise Player
Joined: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 15798
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Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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Shocked DJ lost. I wonder if they will do DJ vs Cejudo 3 right away. I don't think Dana likes DJ so who knows.
I am rooting for Cody. This can go either way. |
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eureca Franchise Player
Joined: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 15798
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Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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Congrats to Dillashaw. I find it tough to root for him but can't deny his dominance. |
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22 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 17063
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Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah that was a crazy 1st round!!!
Dillashaw ended the rivalry with that one |
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22 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 17063
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Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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I need to see moraes vs Cody next |
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jonnybravo Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 30619
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Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, TJ by total domination... His striking is SOOO crisp. _________________ KOBE |
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Gimme_the_rock Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 11882 Location: Looking outta the window, watching the asphalt grow ...
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Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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Will have to watch tomorrow but I had an odd feeling Cejudo might pull out a narrow victory. From 22’s vantage point (which I respect greatly) it sounds like it was a toss up at best which bums me out. Not because I’m a DJ fan. I’m not. But because an non-decisive loss is a crap way for a monster streak like his to come to an end.
TJ does Cody in again and I cannot help it, I’m bummed. Dillashaw is a helluva fighter. The division loses some intrigue and electricity IMO. Shame for TJ but sweet victory and vindication for him on a personal level. I just don’t think most fans will care. Am I missing something, projecting or just way off base? _________________ We back. |
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jonnybravo Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 30619
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Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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Gimme_the_rock wrote: | Will have to watch tomorrow but I had an odd feeling Cejudo might pull out a narrow victory. From 22’s vantage point (which I respect greatly) it sounds like it was a toss up at best which bums me out. Not because I’m a DJ fan. I’m not. But because an non-decisive loss is a crap way for a monster streak like his to come to an end.
TJ does Cody in again and I cannot help it, I’m bummed. Dillashaw is a helluva fighter. The division loses some intrigue and electricity IMO. Shame for TJ but sweet victory and vindication for him on a personal level. I just don’t think most fans will care. Am I missing something, projecting or just way off base? |
If TJ takes out Dominick, it's off to the races for him in terms of gravitas imo. Cody is pretty one dimensional...going for the bomb with his right and TJ exploited it. He got clipped in the pocket in the last fight and was smart enough to basically pick and choose his shots this time around to perfection. Totally outclassed Cody.
For what it's worth I had TJ beating Dominick the first go around. They need to figure out a better scoring system. Dancing your way to points with a shots that wouldn't put a hole in toilet paper shouldn't be a way to win. MMA at it's core sells itself on the fact that it's as close to real fighting as it gets since day 1. Paddy cakes isn't fighting.
In any event, TJ has no holes as far as I can see. Guy is absolutely sick and I've never been a fan particularly of him. _________________ KOBE |
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Ted Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 3477
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Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:05 am Post subject: |
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jonnybravo wrote: | Wow, TJ by total domination... His striking is SOOO crisp. |
Well TJ does spar with Lomachenko and it showed |
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Moses Star Player
Joined: 23 Aug 2008 Posts: 8262 Location: London
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Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:40 am Post subject: |
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Thought the main events really delivered this time. Always feel bad fro anyone who loses their belt like that, but I guess Cejudo did win that last round, even if he did very little damage.
TJ v Cody was pretty much what I thought it would be. TJ. Cody may be powerful and quick, but TJ is so much smarter. You also negate your own speed advantage when you're loading up on every shot with a KO or broke type of approach. Cody's chin is also pretty questionable IMO.
TJ would comfortably handle Cejudo too. Henry is in a tough place here, avoid a rematch by fighting TJ, or risk losing the belt straight back to Mighty Mouse. I guess at least against TJ he has nothing to lose and everything to gain. _________________ Lakers, Chargers, Dodgers, Arsenal FC.
Mamba Forever
The Marathon Continues
Still I Rise |
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OregonLakerGuy Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Feb 2005 Posts: 13207 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:21 am Post subject: |
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Did not see the fights tonight. I echo the sentiment in here about TJ vs. Cody. I just don't find TJ compelling, but he is clearly the better fighter.
DJ was going to lose sometime, but I wish it had been to someone who beat him more clearly. Rubber match next? |
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Gimme_the_rock Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 11882 Location: Looking outta the window, watching the asphalt grow ...
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Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:58 am Post subject: |
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jonnybravo wrote: | Gimme_the_rock wrote: | Will have to watch tomorrow but I had an odd feeling Cejudo might pull out a narrow victory. From 22’s vantage point (which I respect greatly) it sounds like it was a toss up at best which bums me out. Not because I’m a DJ fan. I’m not. But because an non-decisive loss is a crap way for a monster streak like his to come to an end.
TJ does Cody in again and I cannot help it, I’m bummed. Dillashaw is a helluva fighter. The division loses some intrigue and electricity IMO. Shame for TJ but sweet victory and vindication for him on a personal level. I just don’t think most fans will care. Am I missing something, projecting or just way off base? |
If TJ takes out Dominick, it's off to the races for him in terms of gravitas imo. Cody is pretty one dimensional...going for the bomb with his right and TJ exploited it. He got clipped in the pocket in the last fight and was smart enough to basically pick and choose his shots this time around to perfection. Totally outclassed Cody.
For what it's worth I had TJ beating Dominick the first go around. They need to figure out a better scoring system. Dancing your way to points with a shots that wouldn't put a hole in toilet paper shouldn't be a way to win. MMA at it's core sells itself on the fact that it's as close to real fighting as it gets since day 1. Paddy cakes isn't fighting.
In any event, TJ has no holes as far as I can see. Guy is absolutely sick and I've never been a fan particularly of him. |
To be clear, I enjoy Dillashaw as a fighter and certainly more than Cruz for the same reasons you note. And I had TJ ahead when their 5 round, back and forth ended, like you. I guess what’s shaping my thinking here is that Cody already bested Dom in pretty impressive fashion. I mean, Garbrandt totally out-Cruz’d, Cruz. Which is the strategy I thought alpha male would attempt to employ in last night’s title bout. Not saying Cody would have fared any better but I do remember that approach worked so well against Cruz and most likely because it was a surprise to Cruz. Garbrandt wasn’t looking to land bombs. And I think that caught Dom way off guard. But Cruz may also have had an injured wheeel that night. So I’m digressing badly here.
We’ll see where TJ climbs from here. As noted, on the personal level, he and Duane Ludwig must have had a great night last night. The spoils of victory being extra sweet the second go round. _________________ We back. |
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22 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 17063
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Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:23 am Post subject: |
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Gimme_the_rock wrote: | jonnybravo wrote: | Gimme_the_rock wrote: | Will have to watch tomorrow but I had an odd feeling Cejudo might pull out a narrow victory. From 22’s vantage point (which I respect greatly) it sounds like it was a toss up at best which bums me out. Not because I’m a DJ fan. I’m not. But because an non-decisive loss is a crap way for a monster streak like his to come to an end.
TJ does Cody in again and I cannot help it, I’m bummed. Dillashaw is a helluva fighter. The division loses some intrigue and electricity IMO. Shame for TJ but sweet victory and vindication for him on a personal level. I just don’t think most fans will care. Am I missing something, projecting or just way off base? |
If TJ takes out Dominick, it's off to the races for him in terms of gravitas imo. Cody is pretty one dimensional...going for the bomb with his right and TJ exploited it. He got clipped in the pocket in the last fight and was smart enough to basically pick and choose his shots this time around to perfection. Totally outclassed Cody.
For what it's worth I had TJ beating Dominick the first go around. They need to figure out a better scoring system. Dancing your way to points with a shots that wouldn't put a hole in toilet paper shouldn't be a way to win. MMA at it's core sells itself on the fact that it's as close to real fighting as it gets since day 1. Paddy cakes isn't fighting.
In any event, TJ has no holes as far as I can see. Guy is absolutely sick and I've never been a fan particularly of him. |
To be clear, I enjoy Dillashaw as a fighter and certainly more than Cruz for the same reasons you note. And I had TJ ahead when their 5 round, back and forth ended, like you. I guess what’s shaping my thinking here is that Cody already bested Dom in pretty impressive fashion. I mean, Garbrandt totally out-Cruz’d, Cruz. Which is the strategy I thought alpha male would attempt to employ in last night’s title bout. Not saying Cody would have fared any better but I do remember that approach worked so well against Cruz and most likely because it was a surprise to Cruz. Garbrandt wasn’t looking to land bombs. And I think that caught Dom way off guard. But Cruz may also have had an injured wheeel that night. So I’m digressing badly here.
We’ll see where TJ climbs from here. As noted, on the personal level, he and Duane Ludwig must have had a great night last night. The spoils of victory being extra sweet the second go round. |
Bro Duane’s crying embrace of TJ after the win was legit raw emotion like Aldo getting back in the win column last week.
But like many of you I’m not really a TJ fan even though the guy is absolutely a champion. He’s even a kobe fan (which helps lol). Not a Cody guy either but the fight delivered. I do feel bad for Cody. Seems like at first he came out with the same game plan as against Cruz like you mentioned GtR. But he landed a combo early, then made TJ miss badly on a spinning back fist and that shot his confidence up through the roof. Then he came barelling in looking for bombs dropping that left hand and BOOM clipped.
Dude straight up can’t control his emotions when it comes to TJ. I think he can hang with him on the feet but he gets over zealous. On the ground it’s likely TJ by a mile . In any case TJ is the more poised more skilled fighter.
Cejudo took back his call out of the 135lb champ and agreed to give DJ a rematch. I think that’s only fair. I think what Cejudo exposes the most in this fight is that DJ doesn’t have ko power against bigger fighters (Cejudo has a rough cut making 125lb). That’s why I don’t think he would have ever gone up to fight TJ, and if TJ could make the weight he would be hitting too hard for DJ to handle |
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22 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 17063
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Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:59 am Post subject: |
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Just saw he post fight interviews and even Cejudo said he thought it could have gone either way. Sucky way to lose the belt.
UFC or athletics commission needs to decide and state clearly what is worth more in points, striking or control.
At the moment it seems control is weighted far more heavily even if you’re not doing damage. It’s why we’re seeing so many wrestlers dominate lately |
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jonnybravo Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 30619
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Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:33 am Post subject: |
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22 wrote: | Just saw he post fight interviews and even Cejudo said he thought it could have gone either way. Sucky way to lose the belt.
UFC or athletics commission needs to decide and state clearly what is worth more in points, striking or control.
At the moment it seems control is weighted far more heavily even if you’re not doing damage. It’s why we’re seeing so many wrestlers dominate lately |
Yeah, that was a master class in lay and pray by Cejudo. Somewhere, Tito Ortiz is beaming with pride. _________________ KOBE |
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22 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 17063
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Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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jonnybravo wrote: | 22 wrote: | Just saw he post fight interviews and even Cejudo said he thought it could have gone either way. Sucky way to lose the belt.
UFC or athletics commission needs to decide and state clearly what is worth more in points, striking or control.
At the moment it seems control is weighted far more heavily even if you’re not doing damage. It’s why we’re seeing so many wrestlers dominate lately |
Yeah, that was a master class in lay and pray by Cejudo. Somewhere, Tito Ortiz is beaming with pride. |
while chael sonnen nods his head in agreement lol |
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nickuku Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2010 Posts: 7844 Location: Orange County
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Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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As an amateur observer of combat sports I feel like close decisions decided by a round by round point system is such a bad way to determine a winner. We have a hard enough time agreeing who wins or loses with the aid of replay. How are a bunch of old geezers judging by eye going to be accurate at all? _________________ Don't let perfect be the enemy of good |
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jonnybravo Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 30619
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Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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nickuku wrote: | As an amateur observer of combat sports I feel like close decisions decided by a round by round point system is such a bad way to determine a winner. We have a hard enough time agreeing who wins or loses with the aid of replay. How are a bunch of old geezers judging by eye going to be accurate at all? |
Most people that in or follow MMA feel the same way. What's even worse is that none of the judges have any experience in any form of martial arts. Boxing is bad enough as it is but it's fairly simple in comparison to MMA. _________________ KOBE |
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22 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 17063
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Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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jonnybravo wrote: | nickuku wrote: | As an amateur observer of combat sports I feel like close decisions decided by a round by round point system is such a bad way to determine a winner. We have a hard enough time agreeing who wins or loses with the aid of replay. How are a bunch of old geezers judging by eye going to be accurate at all? |
Most people that in or follow MMA feel the same way. What's even worse is that none of the judges have any experience in any form of martial arts. Boxing is bad enough as it is but it's fairly simple in comparison to MMA. |
exactly, you're not alone nick. Unless it's complete domination, going to the judges score cards is almost a crapshoot |
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Gimme_the_rock Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 11882 Location: Looking outta the window, watching the asphalt grow ...
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:24 am Post subject: |
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jonnybravo wrote: | nickuku wrote: | As an amateur observer of combat sports I feel like close decisions decided by a round by round point system is such a bad way to determine a winner. We have a hard enough time agreeing who wins or loses with the aid of replay. How are a bunch of old geezers judging by eye going to be accurate at all? |
Most people that in or follow MMA feel the same way. What's even worse is that none of the judges have any experience in any form of martial arts. Boxing is bad enough as it is but it's fairly simple in comparison to MMA. |
To be fair, history has proven that boxing judges are notoriously shady. I don’t want to open Pandora’s box here but we’ve already seen some headscrathers in the MMA world too. And the sport is still incredibly young. Anywhere you have a lot of money exchanging hands or high stakes bets being placed ...
But, if all things are equal, that takedown effectiveness stuff needs to be sorted out. The Dillashaw/Cruz matchup that we discussed yesterday was a prime example of it. Patty cake and shoot. Boo sheet. _________________ We back. |
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22 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 17063
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:31 am Post subject: |
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Shall we try taking a crack at a new scoring system fellas?
Damage - 2 pts - Fighter who does the most damage in the round is awarded 2 pts. If both fighters hurt each other equally they are both awarded 1 point. If neither fighter is damaged they are not given any points (This also shows which fights had the most action because fights with no damage will have lower point totals in the end)
Control - 1 pt - Fighter who controls the round the most is awarded 1 point. Successful take downs that don't result in giving the aggressor a controlling position matter little here. If neither fighter controlled the round longer no points are givin
Striking - 1 pt - Fighter who lands more strikes (weighted between significant and regular) is awarded 1 point. If the striking is even both fighters can be awarded 1 point. If neither fighter lands strikes neither will be awarded points. |
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Gimme_the_rock Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 11882 Location: Looking outta the window, watching the asphalt grow ...
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:50 am Post subject: |
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22 wrote: | Shall we try taking a crack at a new scoring system fellas?
Damage - 2 pts - Fighter who does the most damage in the round is awarded 2 pts. If both fighters hurt each other equally they are both awarded 1 point. If neither fighter is damaged they are not given any points (This also shows which fights had the most action because fights with no damage will have lower point totals in the end)
Control - 1 pt - Fighter who controls the round the most is awarded 1 point. Successful take downs that don't result in giving the aggressor a controlling position matter little here. If neither fighter controlled the round longer no points are givin
Striking - 1 pt - Fighter who lands more strikes (weighted between significant and regular) is awarded 1 point. If the striking is even both fighters can be awarded 1 point. If neither fighter lands strikes neither will be awarded points. |
Any solution that removes the takedown escape hatch, I'm in complete favor of.
I honestly think the slightly-above-average (objective) MMA fan can see who's winning a fight or a round rather clearly. It's just that whole takedown advantage that needs an overhaul.
What I love about the UFC is that all their bouts end in odd rounds, unlike boxing so draws are far more rare (cough, Canelo/GGG, cough). _________________ We back. |
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22 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 17063
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:07 am Post subject: |
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Gimme_the_rock wrote: | 22 wrote: | Shall we try taking a crack at a new scoring system fellas?
Damage - 2 pts - Fighter who does the most damage in the round is awarded 2 pts. If both fighters hurt each other equally they are both awarded 1 point. If neither fighter is damaged they are not given any points (This also shows which fights had the most action because fights with no damage will have lower point totals in the end)
Control - 1 pt - Fighter who controls the round the most is awarded 1 point. Successful take downs that don't result in giving the aggressor a controlling position matter little here. If neither fighter controlled the round longer no points are givin
Striking - 1 pt - Fighter who lands more strikes (weighted between significant and regular) is awarded 1 point. If the striking is even both fighters can be awarded 1 point. If neither fighter lands strikes neither will be awarded points. |
Any solution that removes the takedown escape hatch, I'm in complete favor of.
I honestly think the slightly-above-average (objective) MMA fan can see who's winning a fight or a round rather clearly. It's just that whole takedown advantage that needs an overhaul.
What I love about the UFC is that all their bouts end in odd rounds, unlike boxing so draws are far more rare (cough, Canelo/GGG, cough). |
I agreed with this logic 100% should def stay 3 or 5 rounds.
And take downs without doing any damage is death for the sport. Makes the fights dull and boring.
I think they should also institute a finishing bonus. Even if you don't get fight of the night you get extra $$ for getting a finish |
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Gimme_the_rock Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 11882 Location: Looking outta the window, watching the asphalt grow ...
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:41 am Post subject: |
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22 wrote: |
And take downs without doing any damage is death for the sport. Makes the fights dull and boring.
I think they should also institute a finishing bonus. Even if you don't get fight of the night you get extra $$ for getting a finish |
Love the finish bonus idea for sure. The good news is that most fighters nowadays tend to keep it on the feet because takedown defense has greatly improved. Of course, Cejudo is a gold medal winning wrestler so he's a bit of a rarity.
I also believe the UFC, itself, wants finishes and fireworks too so they're on the lookout for striking power to appeal to the casuals and non-MMA fans to build the market. I remember, before I got back into watching MMA, the last card I watched was UFC 100. I was at a party and arrived just in time to watch GSP and Brock and was reminded of why I had stopped watching in the first place. _________________ We back. |
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