Underestimating this year's team
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JuiceMonkey
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:46 pm    Post subject: Underestimating this year's team

i honestly believe a lot of u are underestimating this team...i mean there are some big factors here that can lead us to believe that the lakers will do much better than a lot of u are predicting...i mean barely getting the 8th seed?? heres some stuff that will work in our favor this year:

-last year's team was basically a game or two over 500...and dont point out their record cuz anyone who watched the games at the end saw there was no energy or effort level out there and no lamar to boot.

-some west teams got significantly changed/worse-memphis, seattle, and phoenix all took a step back. sac maybe have, depending on bonzi wells...one thing is for sure w/ them, there defense is going to be horrible. dallas lost finley but probably will stay in the 2-3 range in the west. minnesota's talent level has dropped significantly. denver has done nothing to upgrade a lacking roster. houston's backcourt is not pretty on paper.

-we actually have a real 4 in our lineup this year to defend, block shots and rebound...and anything kwame gives us offensively can be considered a bonus at this point

-adding kwame moves lamar over to the 3, a position he can truly dominate at, a position he was meant to play. not to lamar playing the role in an offense that suits him perfectly. adding kwame improves the defense at the 3 and the 4 considerably. anyone watching odom last year guard the 4's knew that despite his best effort, he just didnt have the size to do it.

-kwame's addition helps lamar and mihm defensively and takes pressure off mihm trying to be the only real big man out there

-aaron mckie's addition significantly improves the defense as he is a smart, sturdy player who despite not having quickness, knows how to keep his man in front. aaron in turn, helps kwame and mihm.

-we will have an entire training camp w/ phil teaching this team how to run the real triangle offense(not the mess we saw last year) and to fit players into their perfect roles

-kobe bryant becomes the focal point of the triangle offense and is not iso'd on one side of the court for everyone to stack up on...he will move w/o the ball and carve up the backside of the court instead of having to initiate the plays like he did back in the shaq era. second half of last year kobe averaged 27 pts 6 rebs and 5 assists on 46+ shooting. and that was in a four sided triangle. think phil wont make this offense around kobe better?

-phil has an entire training camp to implement a defensive system...he has the long, athletic team that he wished for and because of this can implement all kinds of defenses. at the same time, any of the 3 perimeter players can switch on defense...and at the same time, odom kwame and mihm can also switch if it happens.

-last but not least, phil jackson's teams always do well...he has never won fewer than 47 games in a season. he is just a magician w/ what he can teach and bring out of a team. he even won 55 games w/o u know who w/ the bulls. dont expect his winning history to all of a sudden come to an abrupt halt.

so with this said, are lakers the favs for the championship? of course not but they are definitely going to be in the thick of things in the west behind san antonio. if things go great for them this year, we could be talking about challenging for hte conference finals. and sometimes u just never know what can happen. but all in all, i would have to say dont underestimate phil jackson, kobe, or the lakers.
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Reflexx
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:50 pm    Post subject:

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davidse
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:51 pm    Post subject:

its not us who are underestimating the lakers.

its you who udnerestimate the other teams !

you keep talking about the team we have, and objectively speaking - the lakers have a nice basketball team, which could even be good if k.brown fits in well.

but too bad we're not playing in a 1 team league...
too many other teams look a lot better -
and that's all that matters.


we've done too little to improve our team, and i can only hope we're not done yet.
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Charles
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:53 pm    Post subject:

Look at the bench:
Brian Cook
Smush Parker
Jumaine Jones
Devean George
Stanislav Medvedenko
Vlade Divac
Sasha Vujacic
Von Wafer
Luke Walton
Laron Profit
Ronny Turiaf
Andrew Bynum
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davidse
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:55 pm    Post subject:

Charles wrote:
Look at the bench:
Brian Cook
Smush Parker
Jumaine Jones
Devean George
Stanislav Medvedenko
Vlade Divac
Sasha Vujacic
Von Wafer
Luke Walton
Laron Profit
Ronny Turiaf
Andrew Bynum




yeah, by far the worst bench in the nba right now. maybe the hawks can give us a run for our money on that one.
maybe.
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DaGreatKobe
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:59 pm    Post subject:

Charles wrote:
Look at the bench:
Brian Cook
Smush Parker
Jumaine Jones
Devean George
Stanislav Medvedenko
Vlade Divac
Sasha Vujacic
Von Wafer
Luke Walton
Laron Profit
Ronny Turiaf
Andrew Bynum


thats actually the best analysis ive ever seen...
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Star
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Underestimating this year's team

I tend to be the optimist and agree that the Lakers will be better this year. However, I can understand the other side of the argument.


Quote:
-last year's team was basically a game or two over 500...and dont point out their record cuz anyone who watched the games at the end saw there was no energy or effort level out there and no lamar to boot.


Lakers had an easy schedule to begin the year, therefore the record at the beginning was padded. If there was no effort at the end of last year, how can you be sure there will this year. Maybe the team at the end of the year was the real team and the beginning was a fluke. Nobody can say definitively.

Quote:
-some west teams got significantly changed/worse-memphis, seattle, and phoenix all took a step back. sac maybe have, depending on bonzi wells...one thing is for sure w/ them, there defense is going to be horrible. dallas lost finley but probably will stay in the 2-3 range in the west. minnesota's talent level has dropped significantly. denver has done nothing to upgrade a lacking roster. houston's backcourt is not pretty on paper.


I would agree but you could argue the same thing happened to the Lakers. They gave up one of their best scorers and their starting point guard for an unknown. Defnitely not a guarantee they will be better there. You can make a legitimate argument that the Clippers, Warriors, Portland and a few other teams actually got better.

I disagree Memphis got worse by the way. Seattle and Phoenix were so far ahead of the Lakers they don't really count either, even if they did take a step back.

Quote:
-we actually have a real 4 in our lineup this year to defend, block shots and rebound...and anything kwame gives us offensively can be considered a bonus at this point

-adding kwame moves lamar over to the 3, a position he can truly dominate at, a position he was meant to play. not to lamar playing the role in an offense that suits him perfectly. adding kwame improves the defense at the 3 and the 4 considerably. anyone watching odom last year guard the 4's knew that despite his best effort, he just didnt have the size to do it.

-kwame's addition helps lamar and mihm defensively and takes pressure off mihm trying to be the only real big man out there



And you know that for sure how? Just depends which Kwame shows up. And you underestimate how good a 4 Odom actually is. Odom, thus far, has shown he is a lot better 4 than Kwame is. He maybe can't defend the 4 but Kwame hasn't shown yet he can either consistently.

I am optimistic about Kwame but to say he is going to make an impact for sure is just ignoring his past.

Quote:

-aaron mckie's addition significantly improves the defense as he is a smart, sturdy player who despite not having quickness, knows how to keep his man in front. aaron in turn, helps kwame and mihm.


Depends if he can stay healthy and contribute at his age, neither is a given. You also underestimate how value Chucky was on offense. I'm the biggest Chucky hater but the guy could at least shoot. Mckie is not as consistent as Chucky is in that department and I will have to see if he is actually able to still guard the PG.

Quote:
-we will have an entire training camp w/ phil teaching this team how to run the real triangle offense(not the mess we saw last year) and to fit players into their perfect roles


You need the right players to run the triangle. Mihm, Kwame, and Mckie have yet to show they can run it effectively. The triangle is not a panacea. If you don't have the right people playing in it it isn't going to work. I actually think Mihm is a HORRIBLE triangle center. The center in the triangle needs to be able to catch the ball and hold position. Mihm does neither well.

Quote:
-kobe bryant becomes the focal point of the triangle offense and is not iso'd on one side of the court for everyone to stack up on...he will move w/o the ball and carve up the backside of the court instead of having to initiate the plays like he did back in the shaq era. second half of last year kobe averaged 27 pts 6 rebs and 5 assists on 46+ shooting. and that was in a four sided triangle. think phil wont make this offense around kobe better?


Maybe the Kobe we all saw last year is the real Kobe. Maybe he really did benefit all those years playing with Shaq and last year was as good as it gets.
Quote:

-phil has an entire training camp to implement a defensive system...he has the long, athletic team that he wished for and because of this can implement all kinds of defenses. at the same time, any of the 3 perimeter players can switch on defense...and at the same time, odom kwame and mihm can also switch if it happens.


Phil had an entire year in 2003 and the Laker defense was nothing to write home about. He had 4 hall of famers and couldn't put together a defensive scheme. You think he can with this starting lineup?
Quote:

-last but not least, phil jackson's teams always do well...he has never won fewer than 47 games in a season. he is just a magician w/ what he can teach and bring out of a team. he even won 55 games w/o u know who w/ the bulls. dont expect his winning history to all of a sudden come to an abrupt halt.


Yes but he has always had talent. Can't win without talent, I don't care who you are, and this is his least talented team by far.




OK, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate. I don't necessarily agree with all I wrote but I am just putting it out there because there is a a chance the Lakers will be even worse this year.
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Ziggy
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:18 pm    Post subject:

Yes the Lakers have a weak bench, but I think their starting 5 is better. That's more important.
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smitco
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:18 pm    Post subject:

One things for sure this years team will be greater than last year. I'm so excited with Lamar playing in his natural position, he will cause matchup problems.
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Ziggy
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:19 pm    Post subject:

DaGreatKobe wrote:
Charles wrote:
Look at the bench:
Brian Cook
Smush Parker
Jumaine Jones
Devean George
Stanislav Medvedenko
Vlade Divac
Sasha Vujacic
Von Wafer
Luke Walton
Laron Profit
Ronny Turiaf
Andrew Bynum


thats actually the best analysis ive ever seen...


lol I dont get the Luke Walton one. Who is he waving to? and why?
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SWISHUPONASTAR
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:21 pm    Post subject:

wheres bobbit
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Star
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:21 pm    Post subject:

Ziggy wrote:
DaGreatKobe wrote:
Charles wrote:
Look at the bench:
Brian Cook
Smush Parker
Jumaine Jones
Devean George
Stanislav Medvedenko
Vlade Divac
Sasha Vujacic
Von Wafer
Luke Walton
Laron Profit
Ronny Turiaf
Andrew Bynum


thats actually the best analysis ive ever seen...


lol I dont get the Luke Walton one. Who is he waving to? and why?


Waving to his man as he goes by him on D.
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DaGreatKobe
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:23 pm    Post subject:

SWISHUPONASTAR wrote:
wheres bobbit


where he belongs....

not trying to be mean about the guy. i like his skills, but i dont see where he fits in... he might also be a phil jackson pick from the '04 tho...
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Charles
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:24 pm    Post subject:

Star wrote:
Ziggy wrote:
Charles wrote:
Luke Walton


lol I dont get the Luke Walton one. Who is he waving to? and why?


Waving to his man as he goes by him on D.
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davidse
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:26 pm    Post subject:

smitco wrote:
One things for sure this years team will be greater than last year. I'm so excited with Lamar playing in his natural position, he will cause matchup problems.



that doesn't mean we'll win more games.
a lot of teams will be better than they were last year.
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JuiceMonkey
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:28 pm    Post subject:

also i forgot to add this...do u guys remember how many very close games we had w/ some very elite teams this year. we had a horrible record in situations where we needed to close out a game. we were 5-10 when games were decided by 3 points or less...does that sound like a kobe bryant stat to u? i dont see how that will happen again, not w/ kobe returning to a system where hopefully his legs will be saved for the end of the game. maybe last season wasnt a fluke and he just has lost his magic touch late in the game...but im willing to bet against that, and i think that stat will be turned around and we'll win several more close games under phil w/ kobe in the clutch.
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Kwame54Brown
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:28 pm    Post subject:

smitco wrote:
One things for sure this years team will be greater than last year. I'm so excited with Lamar playing in his natural position, he will cause matchup problems.


ALL IS TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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NestT
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:30 pm    Post subject:

Charles wrote:
Look at the bench:
Brian Cook
Smush Parker
Jumaine Jones
Devean George
Stanislav Medvedenko
Vlade Divac
Sasha Vujacic
Von Wafer
Luke Walton
Laron Profit
Ronny Turiaf
Andrew Bynum


ROTFLMAO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously,one of the better analysis of our bench this year.

I think you forgot Andrew Bynum
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 12:00 am    Post subject:

DaGreatKobe wrote:
Charles wrote:
Look at the bench:
Brian Cook
Smush Parker
Jumaine Jones
Devean George
Stanislav Medvedenko
Vlade Divac
Sasha Vujacic
Von Wafer
Luke Walton
Laron Profit
Ronny Turiaf
Andrew Bynum


thats actually the best analysis ive ever seen...


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postandpivot
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 12:01 am    Post subject:

davidse wrote:
Charles wrote:
Look at the bench:
Brian Cook
Smush Parker
Jumaine Jones
Devean George
Stanislav Medvedenko
Vlade Divac
Sasha Vujacic
Von Wafer
Luke Walton
Laron Profit
Ronny Turiaf
Andrew Bynum




yeah, by far the worst bench in the nba right now. maybe the hawks can give us a run for our money on that one.
maybe.

you sure about that? who does the nuggets have on their bench?

phoenix after jim jacson oh wait Jimmy has to start now since no Joe Johnson. kurt thomas is great for defense, but they should've have let johnson go. whats going to happen this year when nash gets hurt for 4 games? barbosa? i think not.

Seattle-No more nate, I promise you that'll knock them down from last year.

Portland-in a super rebuilding process right now.
memphis-in a dismantling process
utah-who knows, isn't bell gone?
Golden state could be good with a health BD. but without same old Gstate.

Spurs-same championship form as last year. BUT RObert horry is older. and one of these days the guy will start to officially fall off ala steve smith.

New Orleans(yeah right)


WHo else are we missing?

lets see what teams have probably gotten better thru out the league.

Bobcats, but no worries still got a nice ways to go.
Miami, could easily get to the finals with this lineup, but could easily blow up and be fighting in the locker room.

the bucks, assuming BOgut is as good as they thionk.

HOw about Detroit losing larry brown? huge blow to the team. huge, you may not see detroit back in it for another decade.

So once again why cant the lakers do well?
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Charles
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 12:05 am    Post subject:

The Nuggets? How about NeNe who has proven to be a consistent 18/9/2 threat when given the chance last season? Earl Boykins, a terrific sixth man better than any PG we have on the roster.

Who do we have? a bunch of draft busts and NBDL talent.
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JuiceMonkey
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 12:15 am    Post subject:

i agree w/ postnpivot...many teams are just on the decline or have changed. phil jackson and kobe bryant is not a bad start to have on ur team. for the lakers to be championship level, kobe will have to go from being a top 5 player to clear cut #1 and odom will have to go from being a top 10 talent to actually being in the top 10. there is no better coach at filling in the rite roles for the rite players than phil jackson. a lot of the close games we lost to elite teams(twice to phoenix, twice to san antonio, a couple to sacramento, one to dallas, new jersey w/o kobe, both games to miami) will fall into our column next year. last year the lakers proved at times that they could play w/ the elite teams, they just couldnt close the deal. we can be optmistic and believe kobe will be the closer we know him to be and get us over the hump.
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murder Bynumbers
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 12:42 am    Post subject:

My assessment:

Jazz - a healthy Kirilenko, rookie star Deron Williams and a chiseled Boozer greatly improves the Jazz. They were contending before AK-47 got injured. Watch out.

Clippers - Got better and more savvy with the acquisitions of Cassell and Mobley. Livingston and Kaman also improved with more experience under their belts. Livingston is a baller and will be an all-star one day.

Denver - Just keeps getting better under Karl. If only they had a legit SG.

Warriors - Still won't compete but a rejuvenated B-Diddy and monster Ike Diogu would improve them a lot.



Playoff teams that got worse:

Mavs - The loss of Finley and his leadership and experience will really sting them.

Sonics - Lost Nate, lost AD and Jerome James. Won't make it.

Memphis and Sac-Town didn't do anything to improve themselves and will fare worse than last year. Phoenix also got worse with the loss of JJ but they still have an ever-improving fierce competitor (future Laker) Amare.

With all that said, we will make the play-offs for sure and i'm rooting for a WCF appearance coz I BELIEVE!!!! We have one of the best starting line-ups in the league but a really weak bench. Hope PJ can spark JJ, Sasha and Cook to be serviceable role players for us to contend.
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smitco
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 12:49 am    Post subject:

davidse wrote:
smitco wrote:
One things for sure this years team will be greater than last year. I'm so excited with Lamar playing in his natural position, he will cause matchup problems.



that doesn't mean we'll win more games.
a lot of teams will be better than they were last year.


In the west? which teams. The east are getting better that i agree. But west teams such as phoenix, dallas, seattle, memphis, sac, denver and minnesota are not improving. IMO only houston has improved in the west this off season. I like our chances.
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murder Bynumbers
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 1:00 am    Post subject:

As it stands now, here is how i rate our Conference:

1. Spurs
2. Rockets
3. Lakers
4. Phoenix
5. Jazz
6. Denver
7. Dallas
8. Clippers

Sacramento, Minnesota will contend for that 8th spot.

We have a chance of beating anyone there in a series if healthy.

We have a pretty good chance this year of being the Phoenix (cinderella team) of last year coz we have one of the best starting 5's with no bench.
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