Only game winners that matter are in the WCF Finals and the NBA Finals cause that's all that matters now is winning on the biggest stage, these game winners aint important to Kobe just the fact that Lakeshow wins! He competing against himself has more than anyone active.
That's a nice list. Today was one of the calmer ones the 3 too. There was poor D played on him but still he calmly drilled them
The shot he made in 2004 game 2 was my favorite because without that shot, the series is over.
The one in 2006 vs. the suns was great with that layup to OT.
Portland 2004 was probably the most amazing with that 3 to OT.
That was not a game-winner ! game-winner are the last scored points in a game that gave your team the lead. After the shot kobe hit a ft...so its not a game winner...would have been if he missed them both _________________ Kobe Bryant is the greatest Laker ever!
Joined: 13 Sep 2008 Posts: 5721 Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:49 pm Post subject:
@Tom Haberstroh:Kobe's game-winner last night raises his clutch-time FG% to 28 pct (17 of 61) -- the lowest FG% among 18 guys w/ 25 or more clutch attempts.
Odd, considering he's made at least 28 game-winning shots, and those aren't the only shots that count as clutch.
Also Henry Abbott had a nice article today on... wait for it... Kobe in the clutch.
EDIT: okay, the numbers are apparently for this season only. Yeah, seems on point, although a couple of rough games skew the stats. Small sample size is great though, clearly everything proves that Kobe does... wait for it... in fact, suck donkey balls in the clutch. And everybody saying different is just mythmaking according to Abbott.
i'd like to see a list for lebron. maybe include the category "swallowed balls missed game tying freethrows" and "swallowed balls missed game winning freethrows". _________________ The road back to the top...
@Tom Haberstroh:Kobe's game-winner last night raises his clutch-time FG% to 28 pct (17 of 61) -- the lowest FG% among 18 guys w/ 25 or more clutch attempts.
Odd, considering he's made at least 28 game-winning shots, and those aren't the only shots that count as clutch.
Also Henry Abbott had a nice article today on... wait for it... Kobe in the clutch.
EDIT: okay, the numbers are apparently for this season only. Yeah, seems on point, although a couple of rough games skew the stats. Small sample size is great though, clearly everything proves that Kobe does... wait for it... in fact, suck donkey balls in the clutch. And everybody saying different is just mythmaking according to Abbott.
Do we really need someone crunching numbers to prove to us that Kobe is clutch?? If we get the world's statisticians to unanimously agree and write a paper proving that there are 18 players better than Kobe in the clutch...do you think any NBA coach would say, "Hmmm, ok...I'll give the ball the Lebron now since he's better than Kobe in the clutch." It ain't happening. We saw in the Olympics...
I think that Henry Abbott is just about as useful as reusable toilet paper.
If they would count the number of total shots taken by Kobe from the start of his career to tomorrow nights game that are in the closing minutes of each game, it would be astronomical.
He won't make every single shot but he will take that shot if the rest of the team is not willing to take that shot. The mear fact that he is completely fearless about that last second shot means every single team HAS to play Kobe tight. Watch when LeBJ gets the ball, they sag on him because they want him to take that jumper. And what does he do, he flushes that last shot over to DWade and prays the ball doesn't come back to him.
Being clutch is not only about making critical shots, it is about the willingness to take that shot in the first place. Every single HC in the NBA would take Kobe over any player on thier roster to take a last second shot. HE has made some of the most absurd shots in NBA history and the fact that is is willing to do this every time says a lot about the player.
But the guys like Abbott will statistically break down every aspect of the game and show you why they have a job as a writer. They can say absolutely stupid stuff and somehow make it sound like it is the gospel.
Show me a single player with as many game winners in the history of the sport. Nobody is even close. And Kobe still has tread on his tires. So if you want a statistic, look at the game winner total over a career and if that doesn't answer it for you, then you are not looking hard enough. _________________ This Laker Organization has not yet hit bottom. It is moving there quickly, and I suspect this year we will see zero talent coming to the Lakers and we will trade away Kuz and BI for old vets in the hopes of giving LeBronze some scapegoats.
The best part is that NO ONE, not one person takes Abbott's opinions seriously. Unless that person is a mindless Kobe hater with no sense of objectivity of course. That is the only reason why he won't let this "Kobe is not clutch" thing go...if others agreed with him, he would stop. I remember when Lebron used to miss game-winners, Abbott would write an article the following day about how Kobe is not clutch. That's when he lost all credibility and even if he writes about "facts" now, people don't believe him because they know he manipulates them to fit his agenda. Even neutral fans hate him. The man is too obsessed with this subject to realize how much he embarrasses himself every time he comes out with one of these articles. He gets blasted by thousands of people in the comments section, that should be a hint.
He can't fathom why no one will take his stats seriously and why Kobe is still seen as the best closer in the league. Is he serious?? He is a NOBODY. No one in their right mind would listen to him. He has accomplished nothing in the NBA, he's a nothing...he has no room or experience to make suggestions about who is clutch and who is not. When professional players talk about the best closers, they talk about Kobe. You look at the polls by coaches, GMs or players...Kobe always has a massive lead over the rest. Hence, Abbott's articles have no effect on what the rest of the world thinks of Kobe and that makes him furious. It is about time he come to the realization that he is a nothing, he's just a very ordinary person while Kobe is an untouchable, all-time legend. Just give it up already.
Joined: 13 Sep 2008 Posts: 5721 Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:50 pm Post subject:
I have a strong dislike for trying to define clutch. The only way is to see the games for yourself. That's why, despite this season's blunders Kobe is the guy who's still mentioned as being among those with cajones of steel in a sphincter-tight games, stats and whatnot.
I mean the newest definition (well not that new anymore) that is being repeated [i]ad nauseam[i] in recent years is 5 minutes left in the 4th or OT, not team up by more than 5.
Hypothetical situation A:
Team A leads team B by 6 the majority of the last 5 minutes. Two guys on opposing teams continue to trade punches, the lead alternating between 6, 4, 6, 3, 7, 4, etc. So according to the above definition the guy hitting shot after shot when his team is trailing by 6 or 7 points is not clutch.
Hypothetical situation B:
5:01 left, difference is 5 points (or 1 point, whichever you prefer), player A hits a big three, but oops, he just missed the arbitrary 5 minute mark, so it doesn't count as clutch.
0:01 left, difference is 5 points. Player B hits non-contested meaningless three-pointer at the buzzer. Clutch!
Any way of arbitrarily trying to encompass something with stats that just can't be done will ultimately be shaky at best. Now this is not to say that KB is doing good in the clutch this season, but please, stop with the silly stats and watch the games.
Should have been bumped for the Hornets game but Kobe's jumper to give us the lead 88-87 in the Nets game was the eventual game winner?
Somebody posted this in the game thread.
Quote:
82games def...
Game Winning Shot Opportunity = 24 seconds or less left in the game, team with the ball is either tied or down by 1 to 2 points.
Why use this definition?
With 24 seconds or less, then it truly is a "last possession" situation potentially
With a margin from tied to down 2, the team can take the lead with a made basket (including 3's)
By excluding a down 3 situation, we don't have the "gimme two point buckets" that defenses will sometimes yield to the quick bucket/intentional foul strategy option you often see exercised.
Should have been bumped for the Hornets game but Kobe's jumper to give us the lead 88-87 in the Nets game was the eventual game winner?
Somebody posted this in the game thread.
Quote:
82games def...
Game Winning Shot Opportunity = 24 seconds or less left in the game, team with the ball is either tied or down by 1 to 2 points.
Why use this definition?
With 24 seconds or less, then it truly is a "last possession" situation potentially
With a margin from tied to down 2, the team can take the lead with a made basket (including 3's)
By excluding a down 3 situation, we don't have the "gimme two point buckets" that defenses will sometimes yield to the quick bucket/intentional foul strategy option you often see exercised.
0:20 85-86 Kobe Bryant makes 26-foot three point jumper
In that case the Hornets game was a game winner. Kobe gave us the lead with the 3 with 20 seconds left in the game. Barnes just added 2 FT's, NO didn't score after that.
Edit: Nvm, Ming updated the first post with the Hornets one. Thats 42 for Kobe dayum
Last edited by Air Apparent on Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
Should have been bumped for the Hornets game but Kobe's jumper to give us the lead 88-87 in the Nets game was the eventual game winner?
Somebody posted this in the game thread.
Quote:
82games def...
Game Winning Shot Opportunity = 24 seconds or less left in the game, team with the ball is either tied or down by 1 to 2 points.
Why use this definition?
With 24 seconds or less, then it truly is a "last possession" situation potentially
With a margin from tied to down 2, the team can take the lead with a made basket (including 3's)
By excluding a down 3 situation, we don't have the "gimme two point buckets" that defenses will sometimes yield to the quick bucket/intentional foul strategy option you often see exercised.
adding teh 24sec stipulation makes their guidelines make no sense.
a winning shot, is a shot that wins the game. for instance, a player makes a shot with 30 seconds left that gives his team the lead, then the other team gets two plays out of an offensive board yet fails to score until time expires, the basket made at 30s should be considered a winning shot. _________________ "Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it."
Should have been bumped for the Hornets game but Kobe's jumper to give us the lead 88-87 in the Nets game was the eventual game winner?
Somebody posted this in the game thread.
Quote:
82games def...
Game Winning Shot Opportunity = 24 seconds or less left in the game, team with the ball is either tied or down by 1 to 2 points.
Why use this definition?
With 24 seconds or less, then it truly is a "last possession" situation potentially
With a margin from tied to down 2, the team can take the lead with a made basket (including 3's)
By excluding a down 3 situation, we don't have the "gimme two point buckets" that defenses will sometimes yield to the quick bucket/intentional foul strategy option you often see exercised.
adding teh 24sec stipulation makes their guidelines make no sense.
a winning shot, is a shot that wins the game. for instance, a player makes a shot with 30 seconds left that gives his team the lead, then the other team gets two plays out of an offensive board yet fails to score until time expires, the basket made at 30s should be considered a winning shot.
If it's the last score in the game then it can be 3 mins before the end and nobody scores a Ft or a shot, Kobe's shot vs Hornets was just a tie breaker because Barnes hit free throws after that, it wasn't the last shot for the Lakers, free throws count as well.
That three ball sealed the W. If he missed, it would make NJ's job much easier to win the game as they needed 2 points to win.
The dagger made it a two-possession game with less than 7 seconds to go. It's more suitable to be called a game-clincher. _________________ Kobe's Top 5 Dunks, 81 points, MJ last gm @Staples
Should have been bumped for the Hornets game but Kobe's jumper to give us the lead 88-87 in the Nets game was the eventual game winner?
Somebody posted this in the game thread.
Quote:
82games def...
Game Winning Shot Opportunity = 24 seconds or less left in the game, team with the ball is either tied or down by 1 to 2 points.
Why use this definition?
With 24 seconds or less, then it truly is a "last possession" situation potentially
With a margin from tied to down 2, the team can take the lead with a made basket (including 3's)
By excluding a down 3 situation, we don't have the "gimme two point buckets" that defenses will sometimes yield to the quick bucket/intentional foul strategy option you often see exercised.
adding teh 24sec stipulation makes their guidelines make no sense.
a winning shot, is a shot that wins the game. for instance, a player makes a shot with 30 seconds left that gives his team the lead, then the other team gets two plays out of an offensive board yet fails to score until time expires, the basket made at 30s should be considered a winning shot.
If it's the last score in the game then it can be 3 mins before the end and nobody scores a Ft or a shot, Kobe's shot vs Hornets was just a tie breaker because Barnes hit free throws after that, it wasn't the last shot for the Lakers, free throws count as well.
Kobe's 3 against NO was not a tie breaker. Lakers were down 85-83. His 3 gave them the lead for good. Barnes FT's just added to it. Points 84. 85, and 86 were the "winning points" courtesy of the three.
Joined: 13 Sep 2008 Posts: 5721 Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:56 am Post subject:
Drifts wrote:
LakerFan4 wrote:
Air Apparent wrote:
Bump
Should have been bumped for the Hornets game but Kobe's jumper to give us the lead 88-87 in the Nets game was the eventual game winner?
Somebody posted this in the game thread.
Quote:
82games def...
Game Winning Shot Opportunity = 24 seconds or less left in the game, team with the ball is either tied or down by 1 to 2 points.
Why use this definition?
With 24 seconds or less, then it truly is a "last possession" situation potentially
With a margin from tied to down 2, the team can take the lead with a made basket (including 3's)
By excluding a down 3 situation, we don't have the "gimme two point buckets" that defenses will sometimes yield to the quick bucket/intentional foul strategy option you often see exercised.
adding teh 24sec stipulation makes their guidelines make no sense.
a winning shot, is a shot that wins the game. for instance, a player makes a shot with 30 seconds left that gives his team the lead, then the other team gets two plays out of an offensive board yet fails to score until time expires, the basket made at 30s should be considered a winning shot.
Correct. That is my pet peeve with their definition.
Kobe's jumper to break the tie would've counted as a gamewinner had it happened in the last 24 seconds of the game, even if the Lakers lost the game (because the Nets would then score 3 more points). Thanks for a definition that allows that... I'll stick to what you said, the last made shot of the game (when the team is down 2, 1 or the game tied or whatever other scenario imaginable - being down 3 and then getting a 4-point play because the shooter is fouled while making a three and hitting the additional FT comes to mind).
Does Kobe's last shot today count? He had a layup, and-1 which proved to be the winning basket.
Game Winning Shot Opportunity = 24 seconds or less left in the game, team with the ball is either tied or down by 1 to 2 points.
Why use this definition?
With 24 seconds or less, then it truly is a "last possession" situation potentially
With a margin from tied to down 2, the team can take the lead with a made basket (including 3's)
By excluding a down 3 situation, we don't have the "gimme two point buckets" that defenses will sometimes yield to the quick bucket/intentional foul strategy option you often see exercised.
http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm
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