Best Gangsta Rap song/album?
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LuxuryBrown
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:00 pm    Post subject:

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Puff (i.e. "Ghetto Fabulous" helped popularize the use of accessible, R&B/soul-oriented backing tracks into East Coast hip hop, thus creating a middle-brow blend for people who couldn't stomach, say, the minimal sounds of Primo or the full-on griminess of Wu Tang. Although it eventually morphed into "bling", the original concept was to bring back some of the glamour and glitz of the 70s era, and to reinvent the ethics of gangsta into almost cinematic icons, which of course Jay-Z turned into his career. This worked great because East Coast crime narratives often depicted the hood as inherently a competitive world where there is no real "us" and "them", there is only "me or you." This was inherently different than West Coast gangster. West Coast mostly emphasized the collective and community, and the despair of "us" against the police, rival gangs, etc. Even a Pac, who sustained an almost all-encompassing narrative of his struggle against world, often spoke in reverence and deference to his friends and enemies, as all being part of his city and people that he loved. The difference is important because, where East Coast hip hop stars all eventually broke from their origins in order to assert their stardom, West Coast hip hop stars take upon a mission to keep it "real", which translates to adapting music motifs, lyrical subjects, and so on that reinforce the original image of "us", however far you go.


Puff never went the "70s route". Puff's whole thing was to blend R&B with Hip Hop, and make it "crossoverable" - almost "Hip Pop". Ghetto Fab? Maybe. But his intent wasn't to meld 70s soul and Hip Hop.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:07 pm    Post subject:

24 wrote:
Boy did I completely sidetrack this thread


Rap always creates controversy.
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slippy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:36 pm    Post subject:

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"Puff never went the "70s route". Puff's whole thing was to blend R&B with Hip Hop, and make it "crossoverable" - almost "Hip Pop".


Yeah, but his R&B sourcing was straight from the 70s soul (emphasis on vocal and melodic arrangements), and he helped evolve the sound from the keys+beats pluralism of new jack. His production de-emphasized funk grooves and beats and went for lusher, somewhat more orchestral and arrangements with emphasis on keys and background vocals. Also the fashion bits took references from blaxpoitation and psuedo-Harlem Renaissance. He was big on crossover, but the crossover was about creating a new glamorous where hood was cinematic.

I feel the Chronic was what really started the crossover. Even the concept of a Snoop fit into that. Instead of a dude who would yell at you about popping you, Snoop would go sing-song about killing everybody in your neighborhood; it was inviting and subversive . And instead of cop+gang shootout narratives against tough grooves (i.e. DJ Alladin's work for Ice T) or wall of sounds (NWA), you got call+response party jams about those same cop+gang shootouts on top of gorgeously phat P-funk grooves. NWA was a warning (even Ice T's early solo works were a warning); Chronic was a lifestyle. In the sense that so much of hip hop in the 90s was about thug lifestyle, or what could be appropriated and sold.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:58 pm    Post subject:

Eazy E
Eazy-Duz-It
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:07 pm    Post subject:

hip hop is FAR from dead. Ya'll just looking in all the wrong places. lots of independent artists bring straight FIRE. Also, there are many artists taking the hip hop sound to a whole 'nother level.

and the record labels, radio and A&R cats ruined hip hop....
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LuxuryBrown
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:14 pm    Post subject:

slippy wrote:
Quote:
"Puff never went the "70s route". Puff's whole thing was to blend R&B with Hip Hop, and make it "crossoverable" - almost "Hip Pop".


Yeah, but his R&B sourcing was straight from the 70s soul (emphasis on vocal and melodic arrangements), and he helped evolve the sound from the keys+beats pluralism of new jack. His production de-emphasized funk grooves and beats and went for lusher, somewhat more orchestral and arrangements with emphasis on keys and background vocals. Also the fashion bits took references from blaxpoitation and psuedo-Harlem Renaissance. He was big on crossover, but the crossover was about creating a new glamorous where hood was cinematic.

I feel the Chronic was what really started the crossover. Even the concept of a Snoop fit into that. Instead of a dude who would yell at you about popping you, Snoop would go sing-song about killing everybody in your neighborhood; it was inviting and subversive . And instead of cop+gang shootout narratives against tough grooves (i.e. DJ Alladin's work for Ice T) or wall of sounds (NWA), you got call+response party jams about those same cop+gang shootouts on top of gorgeously phat P-funk grooves. NWA was a warning (even Ice T's early solo works were a warning); Chronic was a lifestyle. In the sense that so much of hip hop in the 90s was about thug lifestyle, or what could be appropriated and sold.


You're putting way too much on it for Diddy, yo. That dude wouldn't know a true 70s vocal arrangement if Isaac Hayes showed up with Curtis Mayfield and laid it down for him. His fashion didn't pull from there either. In fact, he pulled mainly from the 2 leading urban outfitters of that time - FUBU and Kani. I just don't get where this 70s slant is coming from in terms of the dude. He was a visionary but he wasn't "cutting-edge". He knew what the people wanted and he simply gave it to him. You're giving him too much credit for his musical exploits. Puff's main gift was marketing not music.

And it was Hammer and Vanilla Ice that ushered in the crossover era. Then add Will Smith's nursery rhymes and that solidified it. The Chronic intro'd the G-Funk era and made G-Rap "cool & smooth & sexy". Puffy brought the "steal-the-whole-song-and-rap-over-it" into the picture, which harkens back to Rapper's Delight.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:06 pm    Post subject:

LB, Dre did the same thing with The Chronic... example, Let Me Ride...

Hammer ushered in hip pop, Vanillia Ice took it ridiculous levels... Diddy added a street vibe to hip pop.... At the same time you had Dre doing his thing, along with Master P and Cash Money in the South. All ish you hear now is a product of all that... Elements of the BS you hear on MTV/BET and radio came from all of the above. The problem we have is the labels and media outlets are only focusing on one subset/genre of hip hop. Back in the early 90s you could get De La Soul's Me, Myself, and I and My Mind Is Playing Tricks On Me by the Geto Boys in the same rotation, played back to back. You don't get that type of diversity any more... Now all we get is the same cookie cutter garbage, with a few exception. Artists like the ones mentioned the Best of Underground Hip Hop Thread don't get the airplay/attention they should.... There is a lot of damn good hip hop being ignore...


Last edited by TACH on Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Trip_aka_Ace
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:44 pm    Post subject:

Just Ice > Your Favorite Gangsta Rapper

except possibly Schooly D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxysd3ocKGY
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rchanou
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:53 pm    Post subject:

Did we ever get to the definition of "Gangsta Rap"?
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slippy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:25 pm    Post subject:

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He was a visionary but he wasn't "cutting-edge". He knew what the people wanted and he simply gave it to him. You're giving him too much credit for his musical exploits. Puff's main gift was marketing not music.


Yeah, but that's kinda where I'm going with this. Puffy's main contribution (which includes his own take on new jack swing sound at Uptown) was in bringing all those elements together into a commercial successful brand of East Coast hip hop. That IS marketing, This enabled East Coast rappers to continue spinning hardcore narratives, while their look and sound helped cross them over with the kids.

Quote:
. The Chronic intro'd the G-Funk era and made G-Rap "cool & smooth & sexy


Dre also lifted whole sections of songs -- main grooves, choruses, etc. -- too for The Chronic. Not that there's anything wrong with that. It was the idea of melding gangsta with "the happy" that was revolutionary.

Quote:
Then add Will Smith's nursery rhymes and that solidified it.


I'll say this about Summertime though -- the internal rhymes, the detailed and specific imagery, the introspection, and smooth, calm flow. If Rakim really didn't write it, that's one damn, damn good imitation/impression.
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LuxuryBrown
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:15 pm    Post subject:

TACH wrote:
LB, Dre did the same thing with The Chronic... example, Let Me Ride...

Hammer ushered in hip pop, Vanillia Ice took it ridiculous levels... Diddy added a street vibe to hip pop.... At the same time you had Dre doing his thing, along with Master P and Cash Money in the South. All ish you hear now is a product of all that... Elements of the BS you hear on MTV/BET and radio came from all of the above. The problem we have is the labels and media outlets are only focusing on one subset/genre of hip hop. Back in the early 90s you could get De La Soul's Me, Myself, and I and My Mind Is Playing Tricks On Me by the Geto Boys in the same rotation, played back to back. You don't get that type of diversity any more... Now all we get is the same cookie cutter garbage, with a few exception. Artists like the ones mentioned the Best of Underground Hip Hop Thread don't get the airplay/attention they should.... There is a lot of damn good hip hop being ignore...


I wholeheartedly agree with everything you dropped.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:22 pm    Post subject:

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Yeah, but that's kinda where I'm going with this. Puffy's main contribution (which includes his own take on new jack swing sound at Uptown) was in bringing all those elements together into a commercial successful brand of East Coast hip hop. That IS marketing, This enabled East Coast rappers to continue spinning hardcore narratives, while their look and sound helped cross them over with the kids.


Ehhhh....I just don't see it that way, bro. I can't credit Puff at all with an "East Coast brand of Hip Hop". Because he threw it so far into wack the moment he decided he wanted to spit, that it's at the point where it is now. Had he NEVER graced a mic, I think things would be different. But after Biggie died, he went and got Mase...and that was pretty much all she wrote for Hip Hop.

Quote:
Dre also lifted whole sections of songs -- main grooves, choruses, etc. -- too for The Chronic. Not that there's anything wrong with that. It was the idea of melding gangsta with "the happy" that was revolutionary.


But Dre made the groove his own by adding his own West Coast flavor that was found primarily at the roller skating rinks back in the day. Puff never had a "flavor" so to speak. Puff had a vision.

Quote:
I'll say this about Summertime though -- the internal rhymes, the detailed and specific imagery, the introspection, and smooth, calm flow. If Rakim really didn't write it, that's one damn, damn good imitation/impression.


Now THAT I'll gladly concede . Summertime was the joint!
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:23 pm    Post subject:

By the way, y'all...I LOVE talkin' Hip Hop with cats that know their shizznit. I can do this ALL DAMN DAY! BIG UPS, to y'all.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:25 pm    Post subject:

Anything Ghetto Boys
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rchanou
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:32 am    Post subject:

LuxuryBrown wrote:
By the way, y'all...I LOVE talkin' Hip Hop with cats that know their shizznit. I can do this ALL DAMN DAY! BIG UPS, to y'all.


He's not lying.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:32 am    Post subject:

Reasonable Doubt - Jay-Z
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r u the king of the nerd internat with the join the nerds on the internet slogan


d00d leev him alown. he be da bestest pstr on LG. du u c?
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:34 am    Post subject:

Does this count???
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 7:39 pm    Post subject:

^^ hell yeah. Not my favorite of all his songs but I always love me some DJ Quik
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:39 pm    Post subject:

Does this count???
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rchanou
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:04 pm    Post subject:

Free_Kobe wrote:
Does this count???


One of my favorites.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:34 pm    Post subject:

This counts
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:45 am    Post subject:

rchanou wrote:
Did we ever get to the definition of "Gangsta Rap"?


My definition... anything dealing with drug dealing, shooting people, b----es (I mean this in the NWA version of the word) and hating the police.
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rchanou
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:04 pm    Post subject:

mike_dee23 wrote:
rchanou wrote:
Did we ever get to the definition of "Gangsta Rap"?


My definition... anything dealing with drug dealing, shooting people, b----es (I mean this in the NWA version of the word) and hating the police.


I see. I think it needs a bit more refining. IMO, Gangsta Rap is boasting about being a gangster, drug dealing, shooting people, and degrading women.

http://www.cripsandbloodsmovie.com/
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:26 pm    Post subject:

The Game - Money
L.A.X.
this song is G
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:10 pm    Post subject:

You can tell the age of some LGers solely based off their choices .
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