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| Kobe will be better than Jordan |
| Yes, MVP's, Scoring Titles, and Championships included |
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68% |
[ 53 ] |
| No, Kobe will keep going like this and just win titles when he gets another Shaq |
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31% |
[ 24 ] |
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| Total Votes : 77 |
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Odom2Kobe2Kwame
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Joined: 30 Jul 2005
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 Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:59 pm Post subject: Kobe's #'s for the next 7 years |
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30.9pts, 6.4 rebounds, 5.1 assists, 2.3 steals, 0.73 blocks, 2.3 turnovers, shooting 50.4%
These are the Jordan #'s under the triangle. This is where we want Kobe to be if not better. In my opinion, Kobe has Jordan on pure talent where Jordan had Kobe on deception, persuasion, pomp and presence. Once Jordan attained a certain level he just convinced/hypnotized people into believing it was ok for him to have his way with you(let him put his hand on your butt and thrust, he had people going both ways all over the place). And Jordan still has so many people hypnotized they want to make sure Kobe never takes his place. Make Kobe the #1 option and get him away from being a wormy team player and he's on his way. That junk just makes me sick because we know %75 of our games are won based on Kobe's talent anyway. The other %25 we try to biyatch at the rest of the team enough to win. Put the right talent around Kobe but make him do his thing and I think we got Jordan beat. We just need a freaky passer, another freaky scorer, and a freaky big man(make Kwame all 3, and Odom for that matter) to complement Kobe's talents. Odom and Kwame doing their thing should only help Kobe's shooting percentage and points. It's when they don't and when Kobe has to do more for them that it hurts Kobe and us, of course. I want a check on those #'s because I thought Jordan was better than that. Maybe, it was just the influence of his mind control.
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Last edited by Odom2Kobe2Kwame on Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:41 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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T I
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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argghhhhhhhhhhhhh
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eureca
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Joined: 18 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| I said no because basically hes not gonna be better then Jordan. He might win an MVP but Jordan was just to good. |
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PassiontoWin
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Joined: 22 Feb 2005
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Location: Westside
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Maybe if he had his own team from day 1 and at an earlier point in his career, but not now...hes arguably got only a few years left of his physical prime. |
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Stuntman
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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I said no cause with Kobe's legal problems he won't be Stern's poster boy. I believe talent wise he will be better but he won't get the recognition. I think Magic should have gotten more MVP's than he did, but the league is full of Laker haters.
I think that when a team beats your team in the playoffs it irritates sports writers who vote. Look @ the Braves no one really covers them yet all they do is win. The Lakers won 13 WCF's in 26 years. With only a handful of other teams getting there. |
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drzucchini
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Joined: 28 Sep 2002
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Team Bryant wrote: | | Maybe if he had his own team from day 1 and at an earlier point in his career, but not now...hes arguably got only a few years left of his physical prime. |
That's not a big deal. Jordan's last three titles didn't happen when he was in his physical prime. |
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shnjb
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Joined: 08 Oct 2002
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| What is up with all these useless threads that are based on some 12 year olds' "revealations?" |
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icomethru
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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hahaha revelations from a 12 year old...
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Lamar's Bud
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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two words that explain why Kobe will never be able to match that production:
ZONE DEFENSE
Kobe doesn't have the luxury of beating players 1 on 1, and by facing constant double or even triple teams, Kobe could only score 30 if he took 30-40 shots a game like Iverson. There are no IF's AND's or BUT's...it's not going to happen. |
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The Mike
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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It doesn't matter if Kobe ends up better than Jordan or not. In the history of basketball he will never..... let me repeat that NEVER be considered better than Jordan for four reasons.
1.) Jordan helped revolutionize the game, as good as Kobe is and even if he ends up being better than Jordan, the chances of him revolutionizing the game are very very slim to none.
2.)Jordan's Legacy is bigger than he is, to this day I hear stories of the the great, no huge, no gigantic things Jordan did in his career. The crazy thing is I remember seeing a lot of these things and it has become "fish stories" But legend continues to grow.
3.) Too Many people look at him as a Jordan clone.
4.) The media is not prepared to let anyone surpass Jordan unless his name is LeBron James.
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"Kobe Bryant is an absolute nightmare. You can hold your breath, send for help, sacrifice a chicken, it won't matter. Kobe Bryant is coming for you. He's got the ball and he's going to score...some way, some how."
Dancing Barry
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Lakers1977
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Lamar's Bud wrote: | two words that explain why Kobe will never be able to match that production:
ZONE DEFENSE
Kobe doesn't have the luxury of beating players 1 on 1, and by facing constant double or even triple teams, Kobe could only score 30 if he took 30-40 shots a game like Iverson. There are no IF's AND's or BUT's...it's not going to happen. |
Kobe does not face "constant" double and triple teams. This is a myth. Yes, teams collapse when he penetrates, but teams collapse on anyone that penetrates deep into the paint. Although he'll occasionally be double teamed, this is not the norm. Or, maybe I'm not watching the same Laker games you're watching.
Also, Jordan had to deal with constant hand checking. Nowadays, if you breathe on someone who is dribble driving, they'll call the foul.
You ever hear of Jordan rules?
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Warlord23
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:27 am Post subject: |
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| Lamar's Bud wrote: | two words that explain why Kobe will never be able to match that production:
ZONE DEFENSE
Kobe doesn't have the luxury of beating players 1 on 1, and by facing constant double or even triple teams, Kobe could only score 30 if he took 30-40 shots a game like Iverson. There are no IF's AND's or BUT's...it's not going to happen. |
Two words : Jordan Rules
Two more : Hand Checking
Any way you try and spin it, Jordan wouldn't have been shut down by the Tayshaun Princes and Bruce Bowens, even if they were allowed to hand-check him
Kobe's got a looooong way to go before he even matches up to be a top 15 all-time. To compare him with the best ever is ridiculous |
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Odom2Kobe2Kwame
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:44 am Post subject: |
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| The Mike wrote: | It doesn't matter if Kobe ends up better than Jordan or not. In the history of basketball he will never..... let me repeat that NEVER be considered better than Jordan for four reasons.
1.) Jordan helped revolutionize the game, as good as Kobe is and even if he ends up being better than Jordan, the chances of him revolutionizing the game are very very slim to none.
2.)Jordan's Legacy is bigger than he is, to this day I hear stories of the the great, no huge, no gigantic things Jordan did in his career. The crazy thing is I remember seeing a lot of these things and it has become "fish stories" But legend continues to grow.
3.) Too Many people look at him as a Jordan clone.
4.) The media is not prepared to let anyone surpass Jordan unless his name is LeBron James. |
If Kobe wins more Championships with the Lakers than Jordan did with the Bulls you can forget all that. If Magic had won 6 rings or Jordan 5 then Jordan might not even be considered the best just one of the best. You forget all the buttloads of fans who'll be all over Kobe's nuzack once he's winning rings again. You forget the market Kobe's in and where Jordan ruled. Once Kobe reaches Jordan #'s and rings the Jordan era is over. That goes for Lebron or Carter or whoever. It's simple deduction. You're still living in a Jordan dream world. It's very dark and humid because you're right up his azz. If Kobe does better than Jordan then that's it, Kobe and the Lakers rule the basketball world as far as history and all the nuthugger kids are concerned.
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Warlord23
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 2:54 am Post subject: |
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| Odom2Kobe2Kwame wrote: |
If Kobe wins more Championships with the Lakers than Jordan did with the Bulls you can forget all that. If Magic had won 6 rings or Jordan 5 then Jordan might not even be considered the best just one of the best. You forget all the buttloads of fans who'll be all over Kobe's nuzack once he's winning rings again. You forget the market Kobe's in and where Jordan ruled. Once Kobe reaches Jordan #'s and rings the Jordan era is over. That goes for Lebron or Carter or whoever. It's simple deduction. You're still living in a Jordan dream world. It's very dark and humid because you're right up his azz. If Kobe does better than Jordan then that's it, Kobe and the Lakers rule the basketball world as far as history and all the nuthugger kids are concerned. |
Dude, if Kobe does better than Jordan he will go down as the better player according to history and deservedly so. But that's a big IF, no a massive IF, no a humongous IF
When Kobe can win the MVP award, win the scoring title, be a DPOY contender, be on the All-NBA and All-defensive first teams, and win Finals MVP to round it off ... for one year, he'll be at least on the same page as Jordan. If he does it 5 or more times, he'll be in the same sentence. Right now, he isn't in the same book. |
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Odom2Kobe2Kwame
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:58 am Post subject: |
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| Warlord23 wrote: | | Odom2Kobe2Kwame wrote: |
If Kobe wins more Championships with the Lakers than Jordan did with the Bulls you can forget all that. If Magic had won 6 rings or Jordan 5 then Jordan might not even be considered the best just one of the best. You forget all the buttloads of fans who'll be all over Kobe's nuzack once he's winning rings again. You forget the market Kobe's in and where Jordan ruled. Once Kobe reaches Jordan #'s and rings the Jordan era is over. That goes for Lebron or Carter or whoever. It's simple deduction. You're still living in a Jordan dream world. It's very dark and humid because you're right up his azz. If Kobe does better than Jordan then that's it, Kobe and the Lakers rule the basketball world as far as history and all the nuthugger kids are concerned. |
Dude, if Kobe does better than Jordan he will go down as the better player according to history and deservedly so. But that's a big IF, no a massive IF, no a humongous IF
When Kobe can win the MVP award, win the scoring title, be a DPOY contender, be on the All-NBA and All-defensive first teams, and win Finals MVP to round it off ... for one year, he'll be at least on the same page as Jordan. If he does it 5 or more times, he'll be in the same sentence. Right now, he isn't in the same book. |
Yeah, that's what we've got in mind for Kobe over the next 7 or so years. You didn't think he would end up with more titles than Jordan and not get a few of those along the way did you? Without Shaq or Duncan on the team the MVP's are a lock. And how many times have you seen Kobe lock opponents down? There's no question he has the talent. It's how it all comes together and it really all came together for Jordan. You overlook that fact. Had Kobe just had a great team and not just Shaq the Jordan era might already be considered over. Kobe could have 6 rings by now stacked upon of all sorts of awards. Stick Jordan on the same team Kobe was with Shaq and Jordan would still have the titles but not the awards. The Scoring Title, Defense and MVP Award suddenly come under a far different light, Shaq's shadow, cus that's where Jordan would have lived just like Kobe. I don't know what you're trying to tell me other than Jordan was the best. He 'was' the best!!! 
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Hoop_Knowledge
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:51 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I said no because basically hes not gonna be better then Jordan. He might win an MVP but Jordan was just to good.
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Negative...Kobe may not match Jordan's overall numbers, but to already discount The Laker before he is even half-way through his career (and I believe this season is the official half-way point) is just ludicrous. I think if he lives up to (hopefully) what most Lakers fans (like myself) hope (which is winning championships, and he has to win at least 3 to 4 four), he will be considered as good, if not better than Jordan despite possibly not equaling his overall averages in areas like scoring, or scoring titles, or even MVP's...Kobe has to win championships in order to be in the great top 5, numbers are important, but secondary to sports historians behind winning... Jordan was not considered the GOAT by many until he won his 4th or 5th championship...This is what Kobe will have to do...If he does this, and puts up the numbers consistently like I stated in another thread, with winning a couple of MVP's, he will be up there with Jordan IMO, and depending on how he wins the championships, maybe higher IMO... |
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Hoop_Knowledge
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:10 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Two words : Jordan Rules
Two more : Hand Checking
Any way you try and spin it, Jordan wouldn't have been shut down by the Tayshaun Princes and Bruce Bowens, even if they were allowed to hand-check him
Kobe's got a looooong way to go before he even matches up to be a top 15 all-time. To compare him with the best ever is ridiculous |
Comparing apples and oranges...Kobe is seeing a different type of defense that can be argued to be tougher than the defense Jordan saw...It can also be argued in the reverse as well. The main difference in favor of Jordan is what you mentioned...The main difference in favor of Kobe is that Kobe is seeing individual defenders who are physically better (taller, quicker, stronger, faster) on average than the defenders Jordan saw. Jordan put up some of his best numbers against defenders like Craig Ehlo; no disrespect to Ehlo or Jordan, but Kobe does not see and has not seen a defender as horrible as Ehlo guarding him in years. Kobe almost always sees athletic specimens (like prince, patterson, AK47, Bowen, etc) who are really good defensively, and on top of that are as quick (if not quicker), as strong, and in some cases taller and longer than Kobe. Then, on top of this you have to include the Zone installation because if excuted correctly, it's main feature and advantage is that it prevents or hinders dominant one-on-one offensive players like Jordan and Kobe from dominating the ball and scoring in easy isolation sets...Jordan rarely saw this type of defender (or defense) during his prime and before he perfected the fade-away...To Jordan's credit, he without a doubt saw a much more aggressive and physical team defense than Kobe does now (which is why we are comparing apples and oranges).
This is not downgrading Jordan's offensive accomplishments, but I would just like to point out that we are (in this sense) comparing apples and oranges, and both sides of the argument are not being fairly represented (Kobe's in this case)...
Jordan would not have been shut down (and Kobe has not been either as the first offensive option), but Jordan would not have shot over or near 50% against these guys (the prince's, bowen's, patterson's), especially before he developed his consistent outside shot and fade-away... |
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CheetahMan
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:38 am Post subject: |
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 - Can't you people just leave this (bleep)? Who cares about Kobe being better or worse than Mike? He's a Laker, I and you are Lakers fans. If he plays well and leads our team to victories, who the (bleep) cares about some MJ-comparisons?
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SCAR
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Location: Salida, California
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| The Mike wrote: | It doesn't matter if Kobe ends up better than Jordan or not. In the history of basketball he will never..... let me repeat that NEVER be considered better than Jordan for four reasons.
1.) Jordan helped revolutionize the game, as good as Kobe is and even if he ends up being better than Jordan, the chances of him revolutionizing the game are very very slim to none.
2.)Jordan's Legacy is bigger than he is, to this day I hear stories of the the great, no huge, no gigantic things Jordan did in his career. The crazy thing is I remember seeing a lot of these things and it has become "fish stories" But legend continues to grow.
3.) Too Many people look at him as a Jordan clone.
4.) The media is not prepared to let anyone surpass Jordan unless his name is LeBron James. |
I have one reason why he will or could.... Championships!!!!!! If he wins more than Jordan, you would have to consider him. |
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PassiontoWin
Star Player
Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 4034
Location: Westside
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| Warlord23 wrote: | | Lamar's Bud wrote: | two words that explain why Kobe will never be able to match that production:
ZONE DEFENSE
Kobe doesn't have the luxury of beating players 1 on 1, and by facing constant double or even triple teams, Kobe could only score 30 if he took 30-40 shots a game like Iverson. There are no IF's AND's or BUT's...it's not going to happen. |
Two words : Jordan Rules
Two more : Hand Checking
Any way you try and spin it, Jordan wouldn't have been shut down by the Tayshaun Princes and Bruce Bowens, even if they were allowed to hand-check him
Kobe's got a looooong way to go before he even matches up to be a top 15 all-time. To compare him with the best ever is ridiculous |
WHEN has Prince and Bowen "shut down" Kobe? by themself???.........thats right, NEVER.
:roll: |
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lakers0505
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Jordan also took many years away from his career from retiring, is its around 5 or so im not sure. |
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Raptor2k
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
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Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Not enough poll options...and how can you survey the future? The smallest occurence of ANYTHING can change the future. Nobody knows what's gonna happen, Kobe doesn't know, Kobe won't have 'another' Shaq, Kobe may not get MVPs, but he may get championships, vice versa, depends if Andrew and Kwame develop, depends on our bench, depends on Phil's actions, etc. |
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The Mike
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Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1126
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Odom2Kobe2Kwame wrote: | | The Mike wrote: | It doesn't matter if Kobe ends up better than Jordan or not. In the history of basketball he will never..... let me repeat that NEVER be considered better than Jordan for four reasons.
1.) Jordan helped revolutionize the game, as good as Kobe is and even if he ends up being better than Jordan, the chances of him revolutionizing the game are very very slim to none.
2.)Jordan's Legacy is bigger than he is, to this day I hear stories of the the great, no huge, no gigantic things Jordan did in his career. The crazy thing is I remember seeing a lot of these things and it has become "fish stories" But legend continues to grow.
3.) Too Many people look at him as a Jordan clone.
4.) The media is not prepared to let anyone surpass Jordan unless his name is LeBron James. |
If Kobe wins more Championships with the Lakers than Jordan did with the Bulls you can forget all that. If Magic had won 6 rings or Jordan 5 then Jordan might not even be considered the best just one of the best. You forget all the buttloads of fans who'll be all over Kobe's nuzack once he's winning rings again. You forget the market Kobe's in and where Jordan ruled. Once Kobe reaches Jordan #'s and rings the Jordan era is over. That goes for Lebron or Carter or whoever. It's simple deduction. You're still living in a Jordan dream world. It's very dark and humid because you're right up his azz. If Kobe does better than Jordan then that's it, Kobe and the Lakers rule the basketball world as far as history and all the nuthugger kids are concerned. |
According to your theory then we are still in the Bill Russell Ear since he has eleven. I love Kobe's game, and want him to be a Laker for his entire career, but that doesn't impare my judgement. Also people were talking about Jordan being the GOAT before he had won his 3rd ring. Which also kills your argument.
Also while I'm
| Quote: | | "You're still living in a Jordan dream world. It's very dark and humid because you're right up his azz". |
This must be the same dream world you are in as you can now read my mind and all of my thoughts.
For your information, I was not even a big Jordan fan, I believe Magic was the greatest of all time. But you missed the point entirely. The point is that even if or when Kobe's game is better than Jordan's game. There are other factors that will not allow him to be considered greater than Jordan.
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"Kobe Bryant is an absolute nightmare. You can hold your breath, send for help, sacrifice a chicken, it won't matter. Kobe Bryant is coming for you. He's got the ball and he's going to score...some way, some how."
Dancing Barry |
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AirKobe8
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Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 8586
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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Magic owns all.
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Hoop_Knowledge
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Also people were talking about Jordan being the GOAT before he had won his 3rd ring. Which also kills your argument. |
Negative, the true GOAT references did not start to come up and be a legitimate title of MJ23 until he began winning championships during his second three-peat (after coming back from playing a completely different sport). Nobody except Chi-fans and extreme Jordan fans thought that about him after winning only two championships.
| Quote: | | JORDAN >>>>>(x10) ALL THE OTHER BALLERS THAT HAVE BEEN AND WILL EVER BE PUT TOGETHER |
Negative,  , now you are extremely overestimating Jordan to the point of sillyness. Unless the world ends tomorrow, there will always be someone that will come along and be better. The only problem is that there will be incomparable factors, errors in judgement and bias when people try and compare differents era's and styles of play within a given sport. It is basically all subjective, which makes this speculation and discussion fun. To state that Kobe (or anyone for that matter) will not be better than so-and-so before he (or that player) is even half-way done with their career is sillyness. For one, 5, 10, or even 15 years from now the standard of judging greatness for a respective sport may and most likely will change. Varying factors will have greater influence on someones opinion during one era than another factor that was prevelant in another era. As a basketball fan, I will never say that someone does not have the chance to be better (or considered better) than Jordan, or Wilt, or Kareem, or Magic, because Jordan even said so himself, that there will be someone who will come along and be better than him...it is inevitable, and it will all be subjective and perspective when the time comes... |
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