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Blade_For_Hire
Sixth Man
Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 48
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 Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| OshadowO wrote: | there's a moderation to Kobe taking over and getting his team mates involved. Game 6 was the negative end of it. If you come out at the start of the game, take half your team's shots, all difficult and miss most of them, that's not helping anyone. Sorry that's not being aggressive that's being dumb.
There are time when Kobe needs to take over. No one denies that. But there are also times he needs to dial it down and let his team mates do their thing. I don't believe they were ever given a chance to show up early in game 6 like they were today. It's about reading the flow of the game. Sometimes Kobe really sucks at it. |
Wow...I've never seen such poor analysis in my life. His teammates came out in a shell in game 6, committing turnovers, missing layups and wide open shots. And in a blink of an eye it was 16-1. |
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THE_SHOES
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 29556
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| hellsling wrote: | | We won because our bigs got touches |
Thank you!!
Also thank you Kobe! Had me worried to death... That is the strategy that is going to win way more than it is going to lose...
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"According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
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THE_SHOES
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 29556
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| OshadowO wrote: | there's a moderation to Kobe taking over and getting his team mates involved. Game 6 was the negative end of it. If you come out at the start of the game, take half your team's shots, all difficult and miss most of them, that's not helping anyone. Sorry that's not being aggressive that's being dumb.
There are time when Kobe needs to take over. No one denies that. But there are also times he needs to dial it down and let his team mates do their thing. I don't believe they were ever given a chance to show up early in game 6 like they were today. It's about reading the flow of the game. Sometimes Kobe really sucks at it. |
Yup... Can open a game at a 1-9 clip, go into disbelief mode, and here comes that 30% shooting game. Don't need it. If it's falling fine, go crazy Kobe, but if not see if somebody else has an answer.
The assumption that players didn't show up, is not nearly as accurate as players were invited, but weren't allowed to play is way more true...How can it be determined that players didn't show up in the opening quarter of game 6? There was no way to know that in the 1rst...
At this point it is obvious that when Kobe goes into, that "I'll handle this mode" without his A game it is going to not only cancel any chances of the Lakers winning, it is going to throw the offense completely out of sync. The blame is not on the army for that. It is without a doubt the problem of the general...
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"According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
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lakerz4sho'
Star Player
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1024
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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Is the OP insane.. or just crazy?
This is a prime example of why Kobe's offense on most nights has little to do with the outcome of the game.
If the lakers are playing shutdown defense in the point, forcing contested jumpers, and really focusing on controlling the boards, he could shoot a terrible percentage and the lakers can win running away. The number of shots that he takes is irrelevant.
Prime example -- The lakers as a team only shot 46.7%, hardly what you would call burning up the nets. On kobe's good nights, he's well past 50% shooting individually. But today, they held the hapless rockets to 37% shooting.
Good team defense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1 player's offense any day of the week.
That's why I found the "When kobe takes 21 or less shots, lakers have such such record"
Well in all the wins in this houston series, he was over 21 shots per game. Then in game 7, he takes something like 13 and the lakers win running away. Him taking shots or getting people involved will usually be irrelevant if they can shut down the opponents. Becomes a moot point. |
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Trey
Retired Number
Joined: 26 Apr 2001
Posts: 25928
Location: out there
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 10:21 pm Post subject: Replay is on right now for me.. ESPNHD 3min left 1st qtr |
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just a PSA.. this one worth watching again..  and again and ... |
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jabberjaw
Star Player
Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 3038
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Blade_For_Hire wrote: | | drzucchini wrote: | | Qsmiff wrote: | | Some people hate the under 21 shot stat but the more the shot attempts are equal throughout the team the better the team performs |
People only hate it when there's a correlation-versus-causation fallacy involved. |
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yup, if you like this kind of fallacious logic, why not like the stat that states whenever kobe sits out the 4th, we win most of the time. it's the same damn thing. oh wait, you have to actually look beyond the stat and see why it is such. you can't believe one stat over there other, it's either both are valid or they aren't.
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| SilverBullet wrote: | | ...I'm not planning to make drug or anything. Plus, this may only work in a 3rd world country because American cops are smart. Plus, they don't have K-9 units over there. |
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Blade_For_Hire
Sixth Man
Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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I'll say it again. We went into the bigs more in game 6 than we did today. Today we ran more pick and roll than anything and the bigs got scores of penetration and off O-boards. There was very little post scoring until Pau went off in the 4th when they weren't trying anymore.
The bigs did not show up in game 6. They were still soft in the post today but at least they crashed the boards and made their layups. And our shooters showed up to. That's why Kobe didn't have to try and take over.
In game 6 it was 16-1 in the blink of an eye with guys missing wide open shots and the bigs missing layups and not doing anything with their post touches. Gasol would just face up and clank long jumpers. That's why Kobe had to go into scoring mode. Cause and effect people. |
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Wino
Star Player
Joined: 07 Jun 2002
Posts: 9674
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| hellsling wrote: | | We won because our bigs got touches |
We won because the Rockets sucked it up today!!
We ONLY scored 89 points, well below our winning average.
The Rockets offense can't make baskets anywhere but their home court.
Kobe had a mediocre game but we never really needed him to assert himself and he just doesn't have the ego to assert himself when it is un-needed.
Props to the team for not embarrassing themselves and props to Kobe for not trying to be the man, when they didn't need him to be.
We won, here comes Denver.
Money talks and BS walks!!
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Never argue with stupid people! They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!! - Twain |
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Blade_For_Hire
Sixth Man
Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Wino wrote: | | hellsling wrote: | | We won because our bigs got touches |
We won because the Rockets sucked it up today!!
We ONLY scored 89 points, well below our winning average.
The Rockets offense can't make baskets anywhere but their home court.
Kobe had a mediocre game but we never really needed him to assert himself and he just doesn't have the ego to assert himself when it is un-needed.
Props to the team for not embarrassing themselves and props to Kobe for not trying to be the man, when they didn't need him to be.
We won, here comes Denver.
Money talks and BS walks!! |
We won because of our D plain and simple. |
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JUST-MING
Retired Number
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 43986
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Watching it. |
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70sdude
Star Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Posts: 4567
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 10:41 pm Post subject: I'm in the minority here on this |
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| I like seeing the player intros, but in this house, no one else does. Maybe an old guy thing. |
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Trey
Retired Number
Joined: 26 Apr 2001
Posts: 25928
Location: out there
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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It is cool to listen to all the knowledge JVG has about the game and History of it
did you hear when he talked about Phil Jackson being the "unofficial team photographer" for the Knicks? wow... Encyclopedia of the NBA - JVGs head? |
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OshadowO
Star Player
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Posts: 7356
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Blade_For_Hire wrote: | | OshadowO wrote: | there's a moderation to Kobe taking over and getting his team mates involved. Game 6 was the negative end of it. If you come out at the start of the game, take half your team's shots, all difficult and miss most of them, that's not helping anyone. Sorry that's not being aggressive that's being dumb.
There are time when Kobe needs to take over. No one denies that. But there are also times he needs to dial it down and let his team mates do their thing. I don't believe they were ever given a chance to show up early in game 6 like they were today. It's about reading the flow of the game. Sometimes Kobe really sucks at it. |
Wow...I've never seen such poor analysis in my life. His teammates came out in a shell in game 6, committing turnovers, missing layups and wide open shots. And in a blink of an eye it was 16-1. |
Good grief...his teammates weren't the ones bricking 1-6 (all tough shots too). Between Kobe and Fish taking bad shots, Pau got one or two touches during the 17-4 run. If the shot is falling, fine shoot away but if not atleast take it to the hole if you want to be aggressive. You are actually advocating that kind of dumb play and you're calling my analysis bad? |
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guberchink
Starting Rotation
Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Posts: 475
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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| OshadowO wrote: | | Blade_For_Hire wrote: | | OshadowO wrote: | there's a moderation to Kobe taking over and getting his team mates involved. Game 6 was the negative end of it. If you come out at the start of the game, take half your team's shots, all difficult and miss most of them, that's not helping anyone. Sorry that's not being aggressive that's being dumb.
There are time when Kobe needs to take over. No one denies that. But there are also times he needs to dial it down and let his team mates do their thing. I don't believe they were ever given a chance to show up early in game 6 like they were today. It's about reading the flow of the game. Sometimes Kobe really sucks at it. |
Wow...I've never seen such poor analysis in my life. His teammates came out in a shell in game 6, committing turnovers, missing layups and wide open shots. And in a blink of an eye it was 16-1. |
Good grief...his teammates weren't the ones bricking 1-6 (all tough shots too). Between Kobe and Fish taking bad shots, Pau got one or two touches during the 17-4 run. If the shot is falling, fine shoot away but if not atleast take it to the hole if you want to be aggressive. You are actually advocating that kind of dumb play and you're calling my analysis bad? |
yes ur analysis is bad. it's worse than bad actually, but i dont wanna get banned for saying anything  |
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guberchink
Starting Rotation
Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Posts: 475
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| OshadowO wrote: | | Blade_For_Hire wrote: | | OshadowO wrote: | there's a moderation to Kobe taking over and getting his team mates involved. Game 6 was the negative end of it. If you come out at the start of the game, take half your team's shots, all difficult and miss most of them, that's not helping anyone. Sorry that's not being aggressive that's being dumb.
There are time when Kobe needs to take over. No one denies that. But there are also times he needs to dial it down and let his team mates do their thing. I don't believe they were ever given a chance to show up early in game 6 like they were today. It's about reading the flow of the game. Sometimes Kobe really sucks at it. |
Wow...I've never seen such poor analysis in my life. His teammates came out in a shell in game 6, committing turnovers, missing layups and wide open shots. And in a blink of an eye it was 16-1. |
Good grief...his teammates weren't the ones bricking 1-6 (all tough shots too). Between Kobe and Fish taking bad shots, Pau got one or two touches during the 17-4 run. If the shot is falling, fine shoot away but if not atleast take it to the hole if you want to be aggressive. You are actually advocating that kind of dumb play and you're calling my analysis bad? |
yes ur analysis is bad. it's worse than bad actually, but i dont wanna get banned for saying anything |
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iWishiWasJerryBuss
Starting Rotation
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 785
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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THE REFS SUCKED.
I'm sure glad we won this game or else all hell would break loose here. They missed so many blatant calls. |
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Trey
Retired Number
Joined: 26 Apr 2001
Posts: 25928
Location: out there
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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| iWishiWasJerryBuss wrote: | THE REFS SUCKED.
I'm sure glad we won this game or else all hell would break loose here. They missed so many blatant calls. |
the Danny Crawford thread that GOT MERGED  .. was SPOT ON.. that guy was really an oddball.. I would like to see a list of his calls today... He watched Skola grab odoms arm.. and then yank his jersey and was not going to call anything until Odom got smart and FORCED him to make a call by turning upcourt and letting Skolas momentum knock him to the ground |
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suckycrapkins
Star Player
Joined: 01 Jan 2005
Posts: 2717
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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3 letters. DVR
_________________
Laker haters get quiet when I come around. |
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Trey
Retired Number
Joined: 26 Apr 2001
Posts: 25928
Location: out there
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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| suckycrapkins wrote: | | 3 letters. DVR |
I was so hyped I forgot 
but I did download it somewhere |
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70sdude
Star Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Posts: 4567
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 7:06 am Post subject: Rewind: Seeing how we scored |
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Being retired, I give myself the kind of time to indulge in a rewind every now and again. Last night and this morning, I really wanted to see what the Lakers did quasi-technically on the offensive end to yield such improvement in consistent inside scoring opportunities again.
What I saw what not a shocking or even radically different offense than before, when we struggled.
Passes were crisper and less telegraphed to the next man, usually.
Kobe, Fish and Lamar didn't dribble in position nearly as much as they've done recently. They didn't hang on to the ball as long before cutting or passing too, especially Kobe. Other guys were moving more consistently and in reaction to their teammates into good triangle opportunties. Sometimes it was for open looks and sometimes it was just noticeably better spacing. My take is that they were reading what the defense was offering and countering it very well.
Kobe was being used as a magnet to draw the Houston zones into some specific reactions at several specific spots on the floor. Once Houston reacted, he passed out of coverage before it converged or really re-formed. Drew was blocking out and shielding actively on the weak side and strong sides at times, preventing help on Pau frequently. Nice to see.
The team must have studied lots of game film and determined some specific Houston defensive tendencies and developed counters.
Oh, and the open floor scores from turnovers were a big difference too. Ariza got away with a lot of arm and wrist fouls on the Houston wing players. Series-ending games on the home court are nice.  |
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2The4th
Star Player
Joined: 22 Apr 2003
Posts: 4529
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 7:24 am Post subject: |
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I also reviewed the video.
I think biggest culprit from those losing game is.
Ariza, Fisher, Sasha and Kobe shoot too much.
This jump shooting mentality is really dangerous because if entire team's shooting touch is off, there's no way to score.
Also, I'd say a lot of our shooters lacks patience. I remembered old days when guards would make entry passes 2 times until big mens get into the correct position. Nowaday, guards/SF would just jack up shots. They were more patient at making entry pass in game 7. |
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postandpivot
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 36822
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 7:29 am Post subject: Re: Rewind: Seeing how we scored |
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| 70sdude wrote: | Being retired, I give myself the kind of time to indulge in a rewind every now and again. Last night and this morning, I really wanted to see what the Lakers did quasi-technically on the offensive end to yield such improvement in consistent inside scoring opportunities again.
What I saw what not a shocking or even radically different offense than before, when we struggled.
Passes were crisper and less telegraphed to the next man, usually.
Kobe, Fish and Lamar didn't dribble in position nearly as much as they've done recently. They didn't hang on to the ball as long before cutting or passing too, especially Kobe. Other guys were moving more consistently and in reaction to their teammates into good triangle opportunties. Sometimes it was for open looks and sometimes it was just noticeably better spacing. My take is that they were reading what the defense was offering and countering it very well.
Kobe was being used as a magnet to draw the Houston zones into some specific reactions at several specific spots on the floor. Once Houston reacted, he passed out of coverage before it converged or really re-formed. Drew was blocking out and shielding actively on the weak side and strong sides at times, preventing help on Pau frequently. Nice to see.
The team must have studied lots of game film and determined some specific Houston defensive tendencies and developed counters.
Oh, and the open floor scores from turnovers were a big difference too. Ariza got away with a lot of arm and wrist fouls on the Houston wing players. Series-ending games on the home court are nice. |
got away with wrist fouls. every single nba player that goes for any steals hits atleast your wrist. most go thru your arm and body. thats the only way you're going to successful steal the ball. so if they tell ariza he can't do it. you would have to do the same for bron, wade, cp3, etc. cant do that now can we?  |
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postandpivot
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 36822
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 7:30 am Post subject: |
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| 2The4th wrote: | I also reviewed the video.
I think biggest culprit from those losing game is.
Ariza, Fisher, Sasha and Kobe shoot too much.
This jump shooting mentality is really dangerous because if entire team's shooting touch is off, there's no way to score.
Also, I'd say a lot of our shooters lacks patience. I remembered old days when guards would make entry passes 2 times until big mens get into the correct position. Nowaday, guards/SF would just jack up shots. They were more patient at making entry pass in game 7. |
^this has been our problem as well as other teams. see orlando. because of the zone defense, it looks to difficult to pass it in there and to drive in there. so you settle for the easy jumper. |
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70sdude
Star Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Posts: 4567
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| 2The4th wrote: | I also reviewed the video.
I think biggest culprit from those losing game is.
Ariza, Fisher, Sasha and Kobe shoot too much.
This jump shooting mentality is really dangerous because if entire team's shooting touch is off, there's no way to score.
Also, I'd say a lot of our shooters lacks patience. I remembered old days when guards would make entry passes 2 times until big mens get into the correct position. Nowaday, guards/SF would just jack up shots. They were more patient at making entry pass in game 7. |
Yes, I saw much less "quick shooting" early in the clock on the perimeter especially. I am still not wild about regularly seeing Lamar lining up for his perimeter jumper. His mechanics are scary odd with that shoulder turn. Puts him out of position for rebounds as well, so while his very recent make % is good, it's not greatly in our interest to see him there except in the cases he can drag his Nugget rebounder out there with him, esp on a close-out sprint. |
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postandpivot
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 36822
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| 70sdude wrote: | | 2The4th wrote: | I also reviewed the video.
I think biggest culprit from those losing game is.
Ariza, Fisher, Sasha and Kobe shoot too much.
This jump shooting mentality is really dangerous because if entire team's shooting touch is off, there's no way to score.
Also, I'd say a lot of our shooters lacks patience. I remembered old days when guards would make entry passes 2 times until big mens get into the correct position. Nowaday, guards/SF would just jack up shots. They were more patient at making entry pass in game 7. |
Yes, I saw much less "quick shooting" early in the clock on the perimeter especially. I am still not wild about regularly seeing Lamar lining up for his perimeter jumper. His mechanics are scary odd with that shoulder turn. Puts him out of position for rebounds as well, so while his very recent make % is good, it's not greatly in our interest to see him there except in the cases he can drag his Nugget rebounder out there with him, esp on a close-out sprint. |
I've said this for years. but half of LG and phil love LO on the perimeter behind the arc. sure everyone lies about it. but its pretty obvious they want LO to be a bootleg horry from time to time. its supposed to create spacing. but it doesn't. cause the opponent has chosen their poison. and its let LO beat us for 3. no reason to go out there and get picked apart by the triangle offense or watch LO walk around you. stay in the paint and pray lo is off. |
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