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King James, STUDamire, Big Ticket, or Yao?

LeBron James

30%

[ 42 ]

Amare Stoudamire

48%

[ 67 ]

Kevin Garnett

19%

[ 27 ]

Yao Ming

[ 2 ]

Total Votes : 138

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lakerulz023
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
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Location: Los Angeles

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:29 pm Post subject:

Amare all the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

orwell
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Posts: 8203
Location: 90210

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 4:14 pm Post subject:

I like this 2007-08 lineup much better! PG: Lebron James SG: Kobe Bryant SF: Lamar Odom PF: Kwame Brown C: Andrew Bynum _________________ A proud member of LakersGround.net for over 10 years [since April 28, 2001]

el juey
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Joined: 09 Aug 2005
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Location: Cabo Rojo, Puerto Rico

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 4:25 pm Post subject:

Amare is da man ! _________________ I live near my avatar, Combate Beach, Cabo Rojo, PR

KobeWanKenobi
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Location: Manila, Philippines

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 4:58 pm Post subject:

The Lakers can conceivably get both in 2007. If the Lakers have lady luck on their side. And that's a really, really big IF. The scenario plays out like so: LBJ asks Cleveland to trade him to LA or he'll bolt in 2008. Cleveland agrees and sends LBJ and salary filler for Odom, draft picks and maybe even some players too (Cook or Vujacic?). Because of the trade, LA still has its cap space intact. LA then uses the space to sign Amare to a contract. If Bynum is starting caliber, LA uses MLE to sign a good SF. C - Bynum PF - Amare SF - Free Agent SG - Kobe PG - Lebron Otherwise, using the MLE, LA re-signs Kwame. The LLE is used to re-sign Walton. C - Kwame, Bynum PF - Amare SF - Walton SG - Kobe PG - Lebron _________________ Lakers Forever!

aiel
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Joined: 16 May 2001
Posts: 1211

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:56 pm Post subject:

Lebron. Amare would need someone to get him the ball consistantly, in order to maximize his talents. Kobe is best used as a primary scorer not facilitator. Lebron is so gifted he is equally efficient as a primary scorer or facilitator but I think his nature is that of a facilitator. The glove to kobe's hand if you will.

SiRQB11
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Joined: 11 Dec 2002
Posts: 2186

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:41 pm Post subject:

aiel wrote:

Lebron. Amare would need someone to get him the ball consistantly, in order to maximize his talents. Kobe is best used as a primary scorer not facilitator. Lebron is so gifted he is equally efficient as a primary scorer or facilitator but I think his nature is that of a facilitator. The glove to kobe's hand if you will.

i do think LBJ and Kobe would be a great combo, but why do so many people here feel that LBJ would become a pg and leave Kobe to score? LBJ is alot more offensive minded than many people think. I'd hope the two could co-exist, but i think they both need the ball in their hands.

bambam
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Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Posts: 9013

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:52 pm Post subject:

aiel wrote:

Kobe is best used as a primary scorer not facilitator.

Did you watch the 3peat? Kobe does both equally as well... He had a major role in setting up shaq and feeding him...making him the most dominate player he could be.

A Kobe/Amare duo is much more versatile and IMO could be even more potent because of amares willingness to do different things.

Shaq wasnt willing to go high post (even though he had the footwork) until a few games into the 2003 playoffs. That opened things up so much for both of them and they never went back to it cause shaq wasnt comfortable.

Amare can go anywhere. Pick and roll, high or low post.

Great One
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 3166
Location: Girl I'm Back in Spanish Town

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:05 pm Post subject:

Quote:

The Lakers can conceivably get both in 2007. If the Lakers have lady luck on their side. And that's a really, really big IF.

The scenario plays out like so:

LBJ asks Cleveland to trade him to LA or he'll bolt in 2008. Cleveland agrees and sends LBJ and salary filler for Odom, draft picks and maybe even some players too (Cook or Vujacic?).

Because of the trade, LA still has its cap space intact. LA then uses the space to sign Amare to a contract.

If Bynum is starting caliber, LA uses MLE to sign a good SF.

C - Bynum
PF - Amare
SF - Free Agent
SG - Kobe
PG - Lebron

Otherwise, using the MLE, LA re-signs Kwame. The LLE is used to re-sign Walton.

C - Kwame, Bynum
PF - Amare
SF - Walton
SG - Kobe
PG - Lebron

I like how you think, but your talking miriacle work here. Then again we are talking Lakers.

aiel
Star Player

Joined: 16 May 2001
Posts: 1211

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:10 am Post subject:

bambam wrote:

aiel wrote:

Kobe is best used as a primary scorer not facilitator.

Kobe said he doesn't want to initiate the offense and he's right, he is best used as a scorer attacking backside defenses. The core of amares scoring comes from feeds from nash who is a natural initator, kobe is not.

JimRaynor55
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Joined: 25 Apr 2004
Posts: 665

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:42 am Post subject:

Wolfpacker wrote:

This is what people tend to think. It's all Nash. Fact is, Amare is one of the hardest workers in the league.

Do you know that he's developping a jumpshot that's from 15' - 18'? He wants to be the most complete bigman ever and i think he has a shot at doing that.

A "hard working" and "complete" big man is someone with no post moves, no rebounding, and no man defense?

bambam wrote:

Amare has more to develop? of COURSE.. thats what makes him so unique.
His post game isnt developed and once it is watch out.

Hes added a 15-20 ft jumper just wait till he compiles an array of post moves.

A jumpshot is but ONE skill. For all the complaining about how players can't shoot anymore, there's an abundance of scrubs who can't do anything but shoot. It's a lot easier to develop one skill than an entire set of skills, which is what "post moves" is. If Amare is going to become a post up player, he has to overhaul his entire game. There's also nothing he can really do about the fact that he's just small (he's a true PF), and not big enough to bang with larger centers.

Quote:

Nash and everyone on the team litterally stood at the 3 pt line and WATCHED amare go around duncan like his feet were nailed to the floor. On the block he jumped over and through duncan like he wasnt even there.

Did we watch the same team?! Q-Rich, Joe Johnson, and Marion were spot up shooters in the half court. However, Nash had complete control the whole time, and wasn't relegated to being a spectator on the perimeter. It was always drive and kick or pick-and-roll. Whenever I watched the Suns, I saw Amare getting lots of P&R, not Isos.

I respect Amare for being one of the top players at such an early age. He's an athletic freak and almost unstoppable on offense. However, I do think he's overrated, on this board and many other places. Some people talk like he could/would develop great post skills, but that's just not his game. There's only a handful of true post up big men left in the league. I'm not saying that he can't improve or that it's impossible for him to develop low post skills, but to think that he could do so easily is overrating him.

CheetahMan
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Joined: 07 Aug 2005
Posts: 886
Location: LaaLaa Nation

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:08 am Post subject:

LBJ if Bynum and Kwame prove to be solid contributors, maybe even without it. I do love that kid (he turns 21 on Dec 30 ) and he would IMO bring so much more to this team than Amare. We would also have the next Kobe in him once KB retires. But I would settle with either of them, even with KG on a short term basis. Yao wouldn't be too bad either. _________________ I want to say something about Dwayne Wade, but I fear I may get called for a foul. -- Warren, Ludington, Mich.

Octavian
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 279

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:16 am Post subject:

amare is the most likley even though i dont belive any will be here in 07

Mixtape_Live
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Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 158

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:40 pm Post subject:

kobe and lebron would never work out... kobe and amare would be unstopable

cjl2g
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Joined: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 249
Location: San Marino, CA

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:36 pm Post subject:

LeBron, he's worth more, we can get almost anyone in the league and draft picks for LeBron.

wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58336

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:43 pm Post subject:

Quote:

A "hard working" and "complete" big man is someone with no post moves, no rebounding, and no man defense?

What part of wants to be did you not read?

And althoug he can improve in all 3 of those aspects - calling him a "no man defender, no rebounder or post move" guy is far from the truth.

The rebounds comment by itself shows that you have bias against him or for Lebron.

1- Averaged over 12 rebounds in the playoffs
2- Still homing his skills and is working on things that you don't see. Amare is a triple threat Bigman. How many of those do you see in this league with his kind of size and power?
3- He has great footwork and hands. Can defenitely work into a post player eventually.

Sure Amare is underachieving the areas you pointed out for his skill and athleticism but overall as a player - even the legendary Tex Winter rated him ahead of Shaq and the best Center in the league.

smitco
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Joined: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 121

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:45 pm Post subject:

1. Amare (PF of the furure) 2. James 3. Garnet (getting old) 4. Yao (to soft IMO)

bambam
Star Player

Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Posts: 9013

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:19 pm Post subject:

aiel wrote:

bambam wrote:

aiel wrote:

Kobe is best used as a primary scorer not facilitator.

it really doesnt matter what kobe "wants".. They should do whatever is needed to win.
Kobe is effective either way.

JimRaynor55
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Joined: 25 Apr 2004
Posts: 665

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:07 pm Post subject:

Quote:

What part of wants to be did you not read?

How do you know he wants to work on those things? Did he say so in an interview? Even if he did, talk is cheap. Any player can say they want to be better. I'll give him credit for working on those things if I see him actually trying in a game.

Quote:

1- Averaged over 12 rebounds in the playoffs

1. No he didn't. NBA.com says he averaged around 10.7 rpg over the playoffs.

2. Going by just his most recent playoffs is using a small sample size.

3. rpg is actually a useless stat, because it tells you nothing about the rebounds the player is NOT grabbing. A better measure of rebounding ability is the percentage of possible rebounds you grab, or your rebounding differential with your opponent. On average, whatever PF or C Amare was matched up against beat him on the boards during the playoffs, just like they did during the regular season.

Quote:

2- Still homing his skills and is working on things that you don't see. Amare is a triple threat Bigman.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't "triple threat" mean a player can drive, shoot, or pass if given the ball on the perimeter? Amare can drive and shoot, but he's not a passer. Playing a pretty decent 36.1 mpg, on a run-and-gun team whose style inflates statistics, Amare only averaged 1.6 apg in the regular season. In the playoffs, his passing stats went even further down, with 1.2 apg in 40.1 mpg. Those aren't the stats of a playmaking bigman. I'm not even talking Odom or KG. Guys like Shaq and Duncan have had quite a few seasons with an apg in the 3's, or at least high 2's (playing on slower-paced teams as well). Amare was Nash's finisher, not a passer.

Quote:

3- He has great footwork and hands. Can defenitely work into a post player eventually.

Leap in logic. Posting up is a whole different game than Amare's fastbreak finishing or pick-and-roll with Nash.

Quote:

Sure Amare is underachieving the areas you pointed out for his skill and athleticism but overall as a player - even the legendary Tex Winter rated him ahead of Shaq and the best Center in the league.

Whether or not Amare is better than Shaq at center, as well as what Tex thinks of him, is irrelevant to my specific criticisms of him. I'm not trying to put Amare down, and I'm not biased towards Lebron. Either one of them would be a great boost to this team, and I would happily accept them if they came (yeah right). I just want the truth about Amare to be understood by more people, who seem overly impressed by his dunking and high ppg, forget about his weaknesses, or underestimate how difficult it would be for him to change them.

wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58336

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:34 am Post subject:

Quote:

He said it and his coach backed up those claims.

People i know who are PHX fans have told me this guy is the best player they have had since Barkley - only this guy has more work ethic and is going to be a better player.

Quote:

1. No he didn't. NBA.com says he averaged around 10.7 rpg over the playoffs

Ok, can you now explain to me how that makes him a "NO REBOUNDER".

Quote:

2. Going by just his most recent playoffs is using a small sample size.

3. rpg is actually a useless stat, because it tells you nothing about the rebounds the player is NOT grabbing. A better measure of rebounding ability is the percentage of possible rebounds you grab, or your rebounding differential with your opponent. On average, whatever PF or C Amare was matched up against beat him on the boards during the playoffs, just like they did during the regular season.

Shaq's been guilty of much the same throughout his career. Would you not want Shaq in his prime in 1996?

Do i think he's underachieved in rebounding and man defense? Yes. But that still doesn't mean he's not the most dominant scoring bigman in the league right now. He is. Everyone that watches him play or tries to defend knows this.

The best defense in the league was SA or Det. Go on that NBA profile of his and see what he did vs SA in the playoffs. Considering his age and the type of team he is on (mentality) ofcourse it's asking too much for him to have a high defensive knowledge.

But if he played on a team that was coached by Phil and had a leader in Kobe - the mentality would be different.

Quote:

Triple threat is a stance where you can drive, pass or shoot from whereever your stance is. Amare can do all of those things from the highpost. Again i don't think you watch Amare play, he's got triple threat ability from the highpost and that's where he wants to play. If you ask the people around him what he's working most on - it's his jumpshot. The passing stats won't show up because of the offense they run. If Amare was in the Triangle, and getting the primary post touches he would be averaging 3-4 apg atleast because of all the cutting that takes place in that system once the ball enters the post.

Quote:

Leap in logic. Posting up is a whole different game than Amare's fastbreak finishing or pick-and-roll with Nash

Now i know you don't watch Amare. Amare isolated on TD many times in that Spur series. He absolutely destroyed TD - who is an all-NBA defender. So if you think he doesn't have ability to create his own shot or that he's not getting some incredibly fast and low percentage passes from Nash (that would require great hands to catch and finish) then i don't know what to say.

Really you need to watch Amare more. You are severely underestimating this guy. He's the next great dominant bigman. Whether he wins or not will all depend on his guard help. Nash imo isn't enough. Bryant is because he has more years than Nash and is a better player - not to mention Bryant is a proven champion.

Quote:

Ok even if i believe that this has nothing to do with Lebron, how on earth is it not bias when you call Amare a NO REBOUNDER MAN DEFENDER and POST MOVES player.

That assesment reeks of bias, because although Amare's strengths aren't in those departments (i agree that he must and can improve in that regard trumendously) but he's not crap in them either. He's an above average rebounder, inconsistent man defender and is working on refining his post game.

Even if he doesn't have a natural back to the basket post game - perhaps the greatest PF of all time didn't either in Karl Malone. Not all great bigman play one way.

Amare is developping his game, such that he will have great SF ability in a dominant, physical and elite athleticism body. That's a monster waiting to garner rings with Bryant if you ask me. I don't even worry about the post moves and i know that under the right coaching and team atmosphere the defense will improve too.

JimRaynor55
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Posts: 665

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:45 am Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:

People i know who are PHX fans have told me this guy is the best player they have had since Barkley - only this guy has more work ethic and is going to be a better player.

Fans say a lot of things, and are always ready to praise and overrate their favorite players. Lots of people on this board seem to think Bynum is destined to be an All-Star, even though they've never seen him play.

Quote:

Ok, can you now explain to me how that makes him a "NO REBOUNDER".

I'm saying "no rebounding" the way people say things like "Chucky plays no defense." In other words, I mean he sucks at it.

Quote:

Shaq's been guilty of much the same throughout his career.

No. While Laker fans may hate him (and I do think he's been acting like a major crybaby and idiot) and do everything to portray him as a lazy bum who's horrible at defense and rebounding (and he is at least slightly guilty of underachieving, relative to his size and talent level), Shaq has never sucked at either one over an extended period of time. He's a good rebounder, and his defense is underrated here. Yes, he is horrible at P&R defense, but he also blocks shots, intimidates other teams into settling for jumpshots, and plays excellent man defense against centers. Check out Shaq's "By position" stats at 82games.com, and you'll see some rather stunning defensive stats against opposing centers (for example, they only took 39% of their shots in the paint against him last season).

Quote:

Would you not want Shaq in his prime in 1996?

Where did I make it look like I didn't want Amare? In fact, I said that he would be a great boost to this team. I'm just arguing against the overly optimistic overrating of him.

Quote:

On what basis do you judge that he has good passing skills? Hearsay? A mental image of "this guy is a great triple threat player" based on his terrific shooting and driving (which is true) and a decent assist here and there (a relatively rare occurrence, happens less than twice per game)? Really, you're not even trying to provide evidence of his passing skills besides opinion. On the other hand, it's a fact that Amare doesn't get a lot of apg, and Nash isn't even really an excuse, since Dirk Nowitzki (not a noted playmaker) was able to average 2-3 apg playing with him.

Quote:

If Amare was in the Triangle, and getting the primary post touches he would be averaging 3-4 apg atleast because of all the cutting that takes place in that system once the ball enters the post.

Amare would suffer in that kind of a role, since he's a scorer, not a playmaker. Amare thrives off the pick-and-roll, pick-and-pop, fastbreak, and the occasional iso against a slow-footed centers at the top of the key. Making him stand in the post as a playmaker is a good way to bring down his ppg.

Quote:

First of all, Amare got a LOT of his points in the way I described - P&R. Second of all, Duncan was a bit injured. Finally, this is a red herring, since the point you are supposedly refuting is that Amare isn't a post player. What you say here is irrelevant to that, and you also take the extra step of putting words in my mouth.

Quote:

That assesment reeks of bias, because although Amare's strengths aren't in those departments (i agree that he must and can improve in that regard trumendously) but he's not crap in them either. He's an above average rebounder,

An "above average rebounder" is someone who ROUTINELY loses the rebounding battle against his man? Who, playing with an excellent rebounder in Shawn Marion, is somehow on the worst rebounding team in the league?

Quote:

inconsistent man defender

Still, many centers don't give up 0.52 (Amare's best so far), and he's among the worst center defenders out of all the starters in the league.

To show that I'm not a biased hater, I will give Amare credit for being a good PF defender. He's held other PFs to FG% in the low 40s over the past two seasons.

wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58336

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:20 pm Post subject:

Quote:

If they told me he was going to be better than Duncan, then i would be concerned with their bias. But the ones i know have told me that they think he will be bettter than Barkley and that he's got a great work ethic.

Agreed that fans overrate players but they rarely do work ethic. That's very obvious - who's working (Kobe) and who's not (Shaq)

Quote:

I'm saying "no rebounding" the way people say things like "Chucky plays no defense." In other words, I mean he sucks at it.

Again that's inaccurate. And his numbers show you why. Any player that can average 10 rebounds is doing something. He does NOT SUCK at it. I can't believe you would say such a thing, it only shows me theres some issues there against Amare that i don't why you have. Amare is an underachieving rebounder and an above average one overall. He's not elite or very good but he does not SUCK.

Quote:

Ok our debate should end there. Obviously you like Shaq and can't see the double mindedness of your evaluations of Amare and Shaq.

Prime Shaq is a better player than Amare no doubt, but Shaq has notoriously been exposed as a below average man defender and coaches have been on the record as saying his defensive effort is weak. These aren't random guys, we are talking Phil and Tex here.

Quote:

Where did I make it look like I didn't want Amare? In fact, I said that he would be a great boost to this team. I'm just arguing against the overly optimistic overrating of him.

25/10/3/2 is overly optimistic? Those are pretty much he will average over the next 3-4 years barring any injuries. So i'm not overrating him - i think of him as a dominant scorer in a league that has very few from the 4/5 position. I see him as an elite athlete and someone that could become a defensive presence. Emphasis on the could.

And i also believe he's a far better complement to Kobe than another swingman would be. Why? Because you win in this league the most through playing inside-out. Anytime you can do that with two elite players, you are pretty much assuring yourself a shot at rings.

Quote:

I think you need to go revise the triple threat position. It has little to do with how many assists you have and more to do with the stance and direction you have.

Amare has shown that in many situations that he can execute from stance.

Quote:

The same thing was said about Shaq. That he's a scorer and not a playmaker. Well he developped. Once Amare understands an offense - and remember he's what 23? - he will use the cutters far better than you think. I'm not expecting Vlade Divac vision here. I'm expecting the obvious passes. Simple high percentage passes to the open cutter. Exactly what Triangle bigmen learn over the years.

Quote:

Like i said. Amare can develop a better post game, but even if he doesn't he can still dominate from a face up game the way he is now. You don't have to be a back to the basket scorer to be a dominant player. Even Tim Duncan scores a ton of his points through face up play.

Quote:

Yes he is an above average rebounder. The average big grabs what 6-7 boards? Amare grabs more than that. He's not in the category Marion or Ben Wallace are in - but who said he was. You say he sucks, when that notion is preposterous.

Quote:

Take a look at Amare's By Position stats at 82games.com for the last 3 seasons (his entire career so far). His defense against centers is downright appalling. He allowed FG% of 0.59 in his first season, 0.56 in his second season, and 0.52 in his third season. I suppose if you wanted to be optimistic, you could say it's been going down. Still, many centers don't give up 0.52 (Amare's best so far), and he's among the worst center defenders out of all the starters in the league.

To show that I'm not a biased hater, I will give Amare credit for being a good PF defender. He's held other PFs to FG% in the low 40s over the past two seasons.

I consider Amare a PF, and Amare wants to play 4. It's Pheonix that are putting him in that kind of situation. Not his fault that they aren't using him at his natural spot.

JimRaynor55
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Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:15 pm Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:

Did you even bother to read my explanation for why rpg is a useless stat? Let me explain it again in a simplified, but analogous situation.

Player A and Player B both play in separate 1 on 1 games. In Player A's game, one (or both players) jacks up shots at a fast pace. By the end of the time limit, the two players have shot a combined 30 FGAs. Let's say that 16 of those shots missed. Player A grabbed 7 of those 16 possible rebounds.

In Player B's game, one (or both players) is methodical and plays at a much slower and controlled pace. At the end of the game, the two players have made shot a combined 23 FGAs. 12 of these shots missed. Player B grabbed 6 of those possible 12 rebounds.

Who did the better job rebounding? If you go by total rebounds (which rpg is derived from), you would say Player A. However, that's stunted, since he grabbed less than half of the possible rebounds, and was beaten on the boards by his opponent. Player B may have grabbed less rebounds, but he grabbed a larger percentage of the possible rebounds, and was even with his opponent on the boards.

Now, replace Player A with Amare, and increase the total number of FGAs (and therefore possible rebounds) in his game. Player B represents the average NBA center.

Now do you understand why rpg is worthless, and how you can be a bad rebounder despite having a higher average? Amare might have a semi "respectable" rpg, but his rebounding percentage and rebounding differentials are crap.

Quote:

Appeal to authority rather than the statistical evidence. Have you ever thought that maybe Phil and Tex were expressing disappointment in Shaq's underachievement because of his Godly physical talent which could have done so much more? Shaq might not be good compared to what he could have been, but he is great compared to the average big man. The numbers show that he's an above average defender and rebounder. They don't do the same for Amare.

Quote:

25/10/3/2 is overly optimistic? Those are pretty much he will average over the next 3-4 years barring any injuries.

When did his stat line enter into this discussion? I claimed you're overrating him and being optimistic because you think he can develop a set of post moves and rebound above average.

Quote:

Yes. He drives to the hoop at will and can shoot out to 15-17 feet. Still, on what do you base your opinion that he can pass well?

Quote:

The same thing was said about Shaq. That he's a scorer and not a playmaker. Well he developped.

Even before he joined the Lakers, Shaq got close to 3 apg in a couple seasons.

Quote:

Once Amare understands an offense - and remember he's what 23? - he will use the cutters far better than you think. I'm not expecting Vlade Divac vision here. I'm expecting the obvious passes. Simple high percentage passes to the open cutter. Exactly what Triangle bigmen learn over the years.

Did you even read my argument that Amare's offensive game would be shackled by the Triangle? Even though he couldn't shoot and do that high post stuff, Shaq has always been a dominating force when it comes to the low post. That's where the center is in a lot of plays in the Triangle, which also serves to isolate strong post players. Amare won't be getting nearly as much fast breaks or pick-and-rolls in the Triangle. By forcing him to remain stationary while cutters run around him, you're negating his greatest advantage, which is athleticism.

Quote:

Yes he is an above average rebounder. The average big grabs what 6-7 boards? Amare grabs more than that.

The average big doesn't play on as fast-paced a team as the Phoenix Suns (more FGAs -> more possible rebounds -> higher rpg), nor does he get 36-40 mpg.

Quote:

You say he sucks, when that notion is preposterous.

You think he's above average, when the evidence shows that the average (not even good) center beats him on the boards, on a regular basis. THAT is preposterous.

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