WE GOT ARTEST! (5-Yr MLE, Could opt out after 3)
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DirtySunday
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:28 pm    Post subject:

He's a definite bargain.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:18 am    Post subject:

JustSomeJoe wrote:
Over the 1st 3 games as option #2a, 24 pts, 4 asts, 4 rbs, on 50% shooting, 43% from 3.


If we're going to analyze Artest as "Option 2A," then don't forget his regular season numbers: 40% from the field, 39% on threes, TS% of .512. He was a high volume, low efficiency shooter.

How about his numbers as "Option 2A" against Portland in the first round of the playoffs? 41% from the field, 28% on threes. How about his numbers for the playoffs as a whole (including the four games without Yao)? 39% from the field, 28% on threes.

Maybe you're right, and he'll be better for us. But his overall, non-cherrypicked numbers don't paint an attractive picture. Could he do better in the triangle with Kobe and Gasol on the floor? Absolutely. But let's keep our expectations realistic.

JustSomeJoe wrote:
The man has the ability to be a ****ing nightmare for the opposition as OPTION 4


But this begs the question: Will Artest accept a role as Option 4? If we have to spend the year coercing him into accepting that role, then this was a bad signing.

JustSomeJoe wrote:
Is he a gamble? Hell yes. But, he's only here for the MLE, you can expect some pretty healthy protection clauses to be written into the contract, and if worse comes to worse i.e. he blows up and kills a little girl sittin' courtside with his bare hands, he's gone and you plug LO into the SF spot.


No, Lamar plays PF. Ron's replacement is Luke Walton. Anyway, the real risk with Artest involves nothing that could be protected against in a contract. The risk of him committing a criminal act is minor. The risk that he screws up team chemistry is worrisome.

JustSomeJoe wrote:
Low risk, high reward. That's how the Doc operates.


I hope this works out, but if you think this is low risk, I just don't know what to say to you.
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Rick12322
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:06 am    Post subject:

I just watched the video of Artest interviewing Kobe last year and wow, I had no idea how much Ron liked Kobe. All I can say is:


welcome to the Lakers Ron!
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Laker4andmore
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:06 pm    Post subject:

What I'm really excited in seeing is what this signing does for Kobe's game in terms of match ups.

In the past teams have used their long athletic players (usually small forwards) to guard Kobe ( Posey, Pierce, Outlaw, Bowen). If they do that now, Artest is going to have a huge advantage in the post against other teams 2s.
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Futuristic
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:13 pm    Post subject:

LAKER4ANDMORE wrote:
What I'm really excited in seeing is what this signing does for Kobe's game in terms of match ups.

In the past teams have used their long athletic players (usually small forwards) to guard Kobe ( Posey, Pierce, Outlaw, Bowen). If they do that now, Artest is going to have a huge advantage in the post against other teams 2s.


I agree. Something that not even Ariza could provide. Plus, his offense is way under rated, and his overall toughness and intensity will be a breath of fresh air to the "soft" Lakers.
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JUST-MING
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:18 pm    Post subject:

WE GOT ARTEST!!!
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targetman
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:06 pm    Post subject:

It will be interesting to see how Artest and Kobe work together. Based on the interview and the shower incident it seems like Artest is a little too much of a fan of Kobe and he has to get past that. Ariza was a great fit because Kobe was grooming him and training him, but I doubt Artest is going to be so trainable. Let's just hope his skills outweigh any chemistry issues.
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md8
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:13 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:

I also disagree about Ron not wanting to stand around at the three line. Ron actually does a ton of standing around the three-point line these days. He was 20th in threes taken, 14th in threes made last year. That's a big part of his game these days. He'll space the floor and he'll get open looks from three. More importantly, he also shot better from three than any other Laker did last season. You want him spacing the floor for Kobe, Pau and Drew. When the ball goes inside-out, those are places he needs to be aggressive to keep the D honest.


I think Artest could improve his shooting percentage here as well. In Houston he was the #1 or #2 scoring option. Here's he'll be #3 or 4. He should get some wide open looks.
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Dreamshake
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:13 pm    Post subject:

Our local reporter claims the Rockets have been trying to get Ariza without using our MLE, so maybe our two teams are trying to work a trade involving him and Ron...or something else. Who knows....take it for what it's worth (which could be nothing):

http://blogs.chron.com/nba/2009/07/pondering_the_rockets_future_w.html

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He has not, however, been the only one with the cell phone pressed to his ear. The Rockets have worked on ways to get Ariza and keep their mid-level exception. That would seem to mean coming together with the Lakers on a sign-and-trade exchange, with Ron Artest going to LA for the same money. There are apparently other ways.


Edit: I can see why Houston would be interested in doing this, as we could use the MLE $$ on a center or to sign our rookies....or maybe even Wafer. I don't see how this benefits LA though.
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Futuristic
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:01 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
Our local reporter claims the Rockets have been trying to get Ariza without using our MLE, so maybe our two teams are trying to work a trade involving him and Ron...or something else. Who knows....take it for what it's worth (which could be nothing):

http://blogs.chron.com/nba/2009/07/pondering_the_rockets_future_w.html

Quote:

He has not, however, been the only one with the cell phone pressed to his ear. The Rockets have worked on ways to get Ariza and keep their mid-level exception. That would seem to mean coming together with the Lakers on a sign-and-trade exchange, with Ron Artest going to LA for the same money. There are apparently other ways.


Edit: I can see why Houston would be interested in doing this, as we could use the MLE $$ on a center or to sign our rookies....or maybe even Wafer. I don't see how this benefits LA though.


That doesn't make sense. Artest already agreed to the offer the Lakers gave him. Ariza the same to Houston. I doubt any "magic" will happen.
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remifluxion
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:07 pm    Post subject:

Ariza wasn't much of a lockdown individual defender..he only excelled in help defense..Ron Artest gives us another lockdown defender and takes the task away from Kobe guarding the opposing team's best perimeter player..
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SP_Fever
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:14 pm    Post subject:

hopefully Ron Ron doesn't change his mind !
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JerryMagicKobe
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:37 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
Our local reporter claims the Rockets have been trying to get Ariza without using our MLE, so maybe our two teams are trying to work a trade involving him and Ron...or something else. Who knows....take it for what it's worth (which could be nothing):

http://blogs.chron.com/nba/2009/07/pondering_the_rockets_future_w.html

Quote:

He has not, however, been the only one with the cell phone pressed to his ear. The Rockets have worked on ways to get Ariza and keep their mid-level exception. That would seem to mean coming together with the Lakers on a sign-and-trade exchange, with Ron Artest going to LA for the same money. There are apparently other ways.


Edit: I can see why Houston would be interested in doing this, as we could use the MLE $$ on a center or to sign our rookies....or maybe even Wafer. I don't see how this benefits LA though.

Replace Odom if he leaves, and threaten to replace Odom during negotiations.
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JerryMagicKobe
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:38 pm    Post subject:

Futuristic wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
Our local reporter claims the Rockets have been trying to get Ariza without using our MLE, so maybe our two teams are trying to work a trade involving him and Ron...or something else. Who knows....take it for what it's worth (which could be nothing):

http://blogs.chron.com/nba/2009/07/pondering_the_rockets_future_w.html

Quote:

He has not, however, been the only one with the cell phone pressed to his ear. The Rockets have worked on ways to get Ariza and keep their mid-level exception. That would seem to mean coming together with the Lakers on a sign-and-trade exchange, with Ron Artest going to LA for the same money. There are apparently other ways.


Edit: I can see why Houston would be interested in doing this, as we could use the MLE $$ on a center or to sign our rookies....or maybe even Wafer. I don't see how this benefits LA though.


That doesn't make sense. Artest already agreed to the offer the Lakers gave him. Ariza the same to Houston. I doubt any "magic" will happen.
It is a stretch, but the players have only verbally agreed - can't sign yet...
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Keyser Soze
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:31 pm    Post subject:

Sign and trade would be a great option, Lakers could then offer the MLE to a PG such as Miller or Felton possibly.
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Dreamshake
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:38 am    Post subject:

md8 wrote:
DancingBarry wrote:

I also disagree about Ron not wanting to stand around at the three line. Ron actually does a ton of standing around the three-point line these days. He was 20th in threes taken, 14th in threes made last year. That's a big part of his game these days. He'll space the floor and he'll get open looks from three. More importantly, he also shot better from three than any other Laker did last season. You want him spacing the floor for Kobe, Pau and Drew. When the ball goes inside-out, those are places he needs to be aggressive to keep the D honest.


I think Artest could improve his shooting percentage here as well. In Houston he was the #1 or #2 scoring option. Here's he'll be #3 or 4. He should get some wide open looks.


Also wanted to comment on this, and Artest's %'s in general. He got enough open looks in Houston (especially when he played within the offense). His shot was just off last season. A lot of his bricks also came when he tried to dominate the ball too much. You should still see some of that in LA but not as much simply because he won't have the ball in his hands as much. But he should be able to stretch the floor more than Ariza if he stays disciplined and plays within the offense.
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:27 am    Post subject:

Dream - Problem is that Ariza is BYC. Its very tough to do apparently. You have to add in a number of other contracts. Maybe get a third team involved.

It would certainly help the Lakers, they gain the MLE back. I suppose Houston would love to have that extra spending power, too.

You guys would have to take more money in the trade, thats for sure.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:47 am    Post subject:

A sign and trade benefits the Lakers only if we don't expect to re-sign Odom. Otherwise, does anyone really expect Dr. Buss to spend the MLE (plus matching luxury tax) to add another player? I suppose there could be scenarios in which it works to our benefit (for example, if we managed to dump salary through some other move). However, the notion that we would re-sign Odom and then use the MLE to sign another player -- without some other move being involved -- is not realistic unless Dr. Buss has decided to break the bank this offseason.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:49 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
Also wanted to comment on this, and Artest's %'s in general. He got enough open looks in Houston (especially when he played within the offense). His shot was just off last season. A lot of his bricks also came when he tried to dominate the ball too much.


Having watched the Rockets play a fair amount, I can vouch for the accuracy of this statement. Artest wasn't taking tons of contested jumpers, as some people seem to assume.
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JerryMagicKobe
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:10 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
Also wanted to comment on this, and Artest's %'s in general. He got enough open looks in Houston (especially when he played within the offense). His shot was just off last season. A lot of his bricks also came when he tried to dominate the ball too much.


Having watched the Rockets play a fair amount, I can vouch for the accuracy of this statement. Artest wasn't taking tons of contested jumpers, as some people seem to assume.

Yes, but let's not forget the effect that coming to the Lakers will have on his shot selection and how open he is. I mean, in comparison to Trevor, Artest is Ray Allen behind the line. Prior to joing the Lakers, Trevor had hit four 3 pointers and shot 14.3% on threes for his career. He was 0-for-Orlando - never made a single 3. Then he came to LA and was 61-191 (31.9%). That is quite an improvement on his new team. By contrast, when RonRon went from SacTown to the Rox his FG% dropped from 45.3% to 40.1% and his 3 point attempts almost doubled and his % went up from 38.0% to 39.9%. I'll take a catch and shoot Artest shooting 40% from 3 point land any time. Plus, you can only double off of Fish (with a PG who is too small to effect Gasol, Bynum or Kobe) or Artest who will then be as wide open as Trevor was. Artest will have the simplest basketball season he has ever experienced - D up like a mutha, move the ball and shoot the open 3. Look how much it improved Trevor, now imagine a guy with real talent.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:15 pm    Post subject:

^^^^

So now Ariza didn't have real talent? Come on. Trevor is an example of a young player who improved his game, in particular his shooting from long range. It wasn't the open looks that improved his shooting. It was hard work.

Ron did the same thing. 39.9% is a better percentage than he had ever achieved over a full season. I'll give him credit for that. But I'll object to the assumption that he'll be even better for us because he'll get lots of open looks. He had lots of open looks in Houston.

I'd love to see him shoot 45% on threes next year. I just don't think it's a reasonable expectation. He's not Ray Allen (who incidentally has a career percentage of just 39.8%). Ron is more likely to regress to the mean. But that doesn't mean that this won't all work out.
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Dreamshake
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:31 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
^^^^

So now Ariza didn't have real talent? Come on. Trevor is an example of a young player who improved his game, in particular his shooting from long range. It wasn't the open looks that improved his shooting. It was hard work.

Ron did the same thing. 39.9% is a better percentage than he had ever achieved over a full season. I'll give him credit for that. But I'll object to the assumption that he'll be even better for us because he'll get lots of open looks. He had lots of open looks in Houston.

I'd love to see him shoot 45% on threes next year. I just don't think it's a reasonable expectation. He's not Ray Allen (who incidentally has a career percentage of just 39.8%). Ron is more likely to regress to the mean. But that doesn't mean that this won't all work out.


I think 40% is around the high for Ron next season as well. 40% is pretty damn good from behind the arc, and I was happily surprised that he shot it that well.

I keep seeing posts that now that he is in LA he will get easier shots or better shots, and shoot a better %. Ron got good shots in Houston playing off of Yao. He just had two problems. One, I think he was just in a slump all year, because he has never shot so poorly from inside the arc. Maybe the ankle injury had something to do with this (he was playing hurt for a good portion of last year). The other part....well Ron just has some moments where he is prone to not play within the offense and get some shots up. I don't see why that won't happen in LA...it has happened during his entire career. Now, I don't think it will happen "as much" because he won't have the ball as much....but there will definitely be some "what the hell are you doing shooting that Ron" moments. All part of the package....
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RCS926
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:31 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
^^^^

So now Ariza didn't have real talent? Come on. Trevor is an example of a young player who improved his game, in particular his shooting from long range. It wasn't the open looks that improved his shooting. It was hard work.

Ron did the same thing. 39.9% is a better percentage than he had ever achieved over a full season. I'll give him credit for that. But I'll object to the assumption that he'll be even better for us because he'll get lots of open looks. He had lots of open looks in Houston.

I'd love to see him shoot 45% on threes next year. I just don't think it's a reasonable expectation. He's not Ray Allen (who incidentally has a career percentage of just 39.8%). Ron is more likely to regress to the mean. But that doesn't mean that this won't all work out.


I'll be happy with Artest shooting 38-39% from 3. We only had one guy in that range last season (Fish). The next closest guy was Sasha, who shot 36%, but we all know how unreliable Sasha was last season. Our 3-pt attack really regressed last season compared to the previous season when we had 3 guys shooting over 40% (Fish, Sasha, Rad) and another 2 guys shooting about 36% (Kobe and Farmar).
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21_Blessings
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:37 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:

Edit: I can see why Houston would be interested in doing this, as we could use the MLE $$ on a center or to sign our rookies....or maybe even Wafer. I don't see how this benefits LA though.


Would give some leverage to LA in the Odom negotiations. He wants 10 million which he won't be getting, from anybody. But the Lakers wouldn't be able to replace him if he did bolt. If a S/T happened for Artest that means the Lakers could offer thier MLE to a guy like Mcdyss.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:06 pm    Post subject:

Not tryin to dog on Ariza but he did shoot only 32% from 3 in the Regular Season...No way he shoots 48% again like he did in the post season for a full year
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