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Guard Minutes Discussion

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Guard Minutes Discussion 
Author: Mamba Mentality 
Posted: 09/10 10:52 PM 
 
I love the talent we've acquired this offseason, especially at the 1-2 positions. But what really stumps me is how are we going to allocate those minutes to so many guards and maintain engagement/cohesion while avoiding players from being disgruntled about their playing time?

PG: Westbrook, Nunn, Rondo
SG: Bazemore, Monk, THT, Ellington

I'm assuming no one will get starter minutes at the 2, but I don't know how Nunn and Rondo will split minutes with Westbrook playing at least 30 mins per game.


 
Author: epic_ 
Posted: 09/10 11:00 PM 
 
It's gonna be a battle.
And there's gonna be a few guys who simply won't get minutes
I can see Monk and Ellington getting a bunch of DNPs.

And can you imagine that swag lineup of Rondo and RW? I'm ready to crack up at all the internet guys typing away their anger 😂

I need to see preason before deciding


 
Author: Mamba Mentality 
Posted: 09/21 4:13 PM 
 
I think Monk will be the guy competing for mins. Out of all the guards he may have the most liability on the defensive side. Though, he is probably the second most explosive behind Russ.


 
Author: Lamar's Bud 
Posted: 09/21 5:11 PM 
 
Westbrook is an obvious lock for ~36 minutes - whether at the 1 or 2.
Nunn can probably be expected for 16-18 minutes
Rondo I think will collect occasional DNPs (maybe on B2B), or just a handful of minutes.
THT will probably get same amount as Nunn (16-18 mins) so he can continue to grow and develop. Plus he's one of the young guys, and can help keep the vets fresh and healthy throughout the season.

That leaves about 24 minutes between Bazemore/Monk/Ellington. Bazemore likely gets run at both the 2 and 3, so as a "2" he may not get a whole lot if Bron is playing many minutes at 3. Monk/Ellington are probably the odd man (men) out at the 2 - and it will largely depend on their shooting.


 
Author: Four Decade Bandwagon 
Posted: 09/21 5:42 PM 
 
Certainly going to be interesting to see how this sorts out.

IMO I see Rondo and Ellington as the odd man out/ minimal mpg choices in that group. More specialists then consistent rotation players.

To my eye, starters are WB and Bazemore. With Nunn and Monk as the main bench players. I think THT will get more play at SF as James sits or “plays up” to PF as seems to be discussed. Ariza is another deep bench specialist minimal mpg player most of the season.

Those nights with fourth quarter garbage time could get real interesting if the end of the bench getting a chance to stretch their legs has a lineup of Rondo, Ellington, Ariza, Melo, Howard. Lol


Re: Guard Minutes Discussion 
Author: activeverb 
Posted: 09/21 5:58 PM 
 
Mamba Mentality wrote:
I love the talent we've acquired this offseason, especially at the 1-2 positions. But what really stumps me is how are we going to allocate those minutes to so many guards and maintain engagement/cohesion while avoiding players from being disgruntled about their playing time?

PG: Westbrook, Nunn, Rondo
SG: Bazemore, Monk, THT, Ellington

I'm assuming no one will get starter minutes at the 2, but I don't know how Nunn and Rondo will split minutes with Westbrook playing at least 30 mins per game.


Someone is inevitably going to be stuck to the bench. It's not Vogel's job to keep everyone happy. It's to put out the most effective combination of players. This isn't a park league team where everyone is guaranteed minutes.

Rondo, Bazemore, and Ellington are pros who have been around the block. If they fall out of the rotation and rack up DNPs, I don't see them making an issue of it.

If Monk, Nunn, or THT complain about playing time to such an extent that it become an issue, I don't see Lebron, Westbrook and AD putting up with it.


 
Author: manlisten 
Posted: 09/21 7:24 PM 
 
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
I think THT will get more play at SF as James sits or “plays up” to PF as seems to be discussed. Ariza is another deep bench specialist minimal mpg player most of the season.



This is a good point. THT spent the majority of his time at the 3 last season and Vogel ran a 4 guard rotation aside from that. Russ obviously takes Schroeder's minutes and Baze seems like the ideal candidate to step into KCP's role as the 2/3. I'd expect Nunn to get the bulk of the backup guard minutes with a few sprinkled in for THT. Monk would then be fighting with Ellington/Rondo to earn what's left.


 
Author: fansincemagic 
Posted: 09/21 8:55 PM 
 
Monk is the wildcard, he signed early and the Lakers continued to add quality guards, he might get buried. Nunn, Baze and THT will get PT, Ellington will be situational.

This isn't a slight on Monk, but by mid-season it may be the best for both parties if they make a trade unless he leaps someone. If he shows flashes but keeps riding the pine, they may deal him for a cheap defensive forward or stretch 4/5.


Re: Guard Minutes Discussion 
Author: Car54 
Posted: 09/21 10:24 PM 
 
Mamba Mentality wrote:
I love the talent we've acquired this offseason, especially at the 1-2 positions. But what really stumps me is how are we going to allocate those minutes to so many guards and maintain engagement/cohesion while avoiding players from being disgruntled about their playing time?

PG: Westbrook, Nunn, Rondo
SG: Bazemore, Monk, THT, Ellington

I'm assuming no one will get starter minutes at the 2, but I don't know how Nunn and Rondo will split minutes with Westbrook playing at least 30 mins per game.


Rondo isn’t playing except when needed. He won’t be apart of regular rotation


 
Author: Car54 
Posted: 09/21 10:27 PM 
 
fansincemagic wrote:
Monk is the wildcard, he signed early and the Lakers continued to add quality guards, he might get buried. Nunn, Baze and THT will get PT, Ellington will be situational.

This isn't a slight on Monk, but by mid-season it may be the best for both parties if they make a trade unless he leaps someone. If he shows flashes but keeps riding the pine, they may deal him for a cheap defensive forward or stretch 4/5.


I can see Ellington Nunn and Monk all getting mins. Rondo already said they told him he won’t be in rotation.


 
Author: textbook 
Posted: 09/21 11:40 PM 
 
Car54 wrote:
fansincemagic wrote:
Monk is the wildcard, he signed early and the Lakers continued to add quality guards, he might get buried. Nunn, Baze and THT will get PT, Ellington will be situational.

This isn't a slight on Monk, but by mid-season it may be the best for both parties if they make a trade unless he leaps someone. If he shows flashes but keeps riding the pine, they may deal him for a cheap defensive forward or stretch 4/5.


I can see Ellington Nunn and Monk all getting mins. Rondo already said they told him he won’t be in rotation.



Yeah, I don't think Rondo will get many minutes towards the first part of the season. I also think THT and Bazemore will spend a lot of time at the 3. And, I think we will see some three guard line ups as well.


 
Author: Car54 
Posted: 09/21 11:43 PM 
 
textbook wrote:
Car54 wrote:
fansincemagic wrote:
Monk is the wildcard, he signed early and the Lakers continued to add quality guards, he might get buried. Nunn, Baze and THT will get PT, Ellington will be situational.

This isn't a slight on Monk, but by mid-season it may be the best for both parties if they make a trade unless he leaps someone. If he shows flashes but keeps riding the pine, they may deal him for a cheap defensive forward or stretch 4/5.


I can see Ellington Nunn and Monk all getting mins. Rondo already said they told him he won’t be in rotation.



Yeah, I don't think Rondo will get many minutes towards the first part of the season. I also think THT and Bazemore will spend a lot of time at the 3. And, I think we will see some three guard line ups as well.


Me too


 
Author: Mamba Mentality 
Posted: 09/21 11:43 PM 
 
textbook wrote:
Car54 wrote:
fansincemagic wrote:
Monk is the wildcard, he signed early and the Lakers continued to add quality guards, he might get buried. Nunn, Baze and THT will get PT, Ellington will be situational.

This isn't a slight on Monk, but by mid-season it may be the best for both parties if they make a trade unless he leaps someone. If he shows flashes but keeps riding the pine, they may deal him for a cheap defensive forward or stretch 4/5.


I can see Ellington Nunn and Monk all getting mins. Rondo already said they told him he won’t be in rotation.



Yeah, I don't think Rondo will get many minutes towards the first part of the season. I also think THT and Bazemore will spend a lot of time at the 3. And, I think we will see some three guard line ups as well.


Yeah I see Rondo in a more player-coach role this year. If anything he'll get his minutes in the post season where his experience will be put to use.


 
Author: audioaxes 
Posted: 09/22 6:07 AM 
 
This was an issue during the title run… trying to squeeze in too many guards into the rotation. We played much better when a certain player was out for multiple games allowing the others to get a more solid rotation. Avery opting out of the bubble was a huge blessing in disguise as it gave more minutes to Caruso and KCP.
I would have Rondo and Ellington rack up DNPs and give Bazemore spot minutes at the 3. Westbrook should drop his mpg so he can give more effort on defense.


 
Author: wolfpaclaker 
Posted: 09/22 10:55 AM 
 
Rondo is an important piece. Think of him as Frank's Luke Walton for this season. He runs the right plays, gets the right mentality going for the team. Not every coach knows what to do with a Rajon, but Frank does.

Now it has to be very short bursts he plays in, but he should get playing time, regularly, to install that culture. This team wants to be a team that creates a lot of good opportunities for each other, and while I like Nunn/Monk/THT, none of those 3 have steady court vision like Rondo. None of them can see the play coming way in advance.

All we need from Rondo are 4 minutes a half of quality play. We do not need him to be that player he was 2 years ago. But it sure would be cool if he could step up his game in the playoffs again. However to have a floor general not named Bron, this is an asset to have.


 
Author: LakerSD 
Posted: 09/22 2:26 PM 
 
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Rondo is an important piece. Think of him as Frank's Luke Walton for this season. He runs the right plays, gets the right mentality going for the team. Not every coach knows what to do with a Rajon, but Frank does.

Now it has to be very short bursts he plays in, but he should get playing time, regularly, to install that culture. This team wants to be a team that creates a lot of good opportunities for each other, and while I like Nunn/Monk/THT, none of those 3 have steady court vision like Rondo. None of them can see the play coming way in advance.

All we need from Rondo are 4 minutes a half of quality play. We do not need him to be that player he was 2 years ago. But it sure would be cool if he could step up his game in the playoffs again. However to have a floor general not named Bron, this is an asset to have.


Well said.


 
Author: Four Decade Bandwagon 
Posted: 09/22 3:58 PM 
 
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Rondo is an important piece. Think of him as Frank's Luke Walton for this season. He runs the right plays, gets the right mentality going for the team. Not every coach knows what to do with a Rajon, but Frank does.

Now it has to be very short bursts he plays in, but he should get playing time, regularly, to install that culture. This team wants to be a team that creates a lot of good opportunities for each other, and while I like Nunn/Monk/THT, none of those 3 have steady court vision like Rondo. None of them can see the play coming way in advance.

All we need from Rondo are 4 minutes a half of quality play. We do not need him to be that player he was 2 years ago. But it sure would be cool if he could step up his game in the playoffs again. However to have a floor general not named Bron, this is an asset to have.


Predicting Rondo’s mpg is tough. Very possible he has a role every game as you state.

But I can easily see him not getting that playing time every game unless a play initiator (James, WB, Nunn, even THT) is out for rest or injury.

Rondo is a strange dude. It will be interesting to see how motivated he is to play every night. Focusing on that culture builder/ on court coach in practice. He will be invaluable if one of the initiators misses games or if the system bogs down at times.

A great option, when needed. But not every game IMO. It’s a long season. His skills will be needed.


 
Author: MIMLaker 
Posted: 09/22 5:36 PM 
 
fansincemagic wrote:
Monk is the wildcard, he signed early and the Lakers continued to add quality guards, he might get buried. Nunn, Baze and THT will get PT, Ellington will be situational.

This isn't a slight on Monk, but by mid-season it may be the best for both parties if they make a trade unless he leaps someone. If he shows flashes but keeps riding the pine, they may deal him for a cheap defensive forward or stretch 4/5.


Monk and Nunn were announced on Day 2 of FA. Ellington and Baze were announced Day 1 with Ariza.

Out of the entire backcourt, Ellington has the highest number of 3 attempts and highest overall 3-percentage the past 4-5 years. I think he opens the season as the starting 2-guard. That may change after the first couple of months once everyone on the roster figures out D and gets into rhythm, and I can totally see Coach giving various players a 2-3 week stint of being in the rotation (while others get DNPs) to test them out until we get past the ASB.

Monk could very well be out of rotation and behind Nunn to start the year due to youth, lack of playoff experience. He may p[op off alter in the eyar and be a sparkplug off the bench, but I'm genuinely puzzle by Pelinka signing both him and Nunn. Monk may be a bit more explosive off the hope, but it's skill set and positiional redundancy to me.

I figure THT and Baze and their short body/super-long wingspan frames will see a lot more time at the SF spot. That should help with the backcourt logjam.

I just wish we would've signed only one of Nunn or Monk and gotten a couple of more midsize/ big wings to make up for the loss of KCP, Kuz, AC, and Kieff. That's a lot of perimeter size we lost this summer, and we didn't have much to begin with.


 
Author: MIMLaker 
Posted: 09/22 5:40 PM 
 
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
Certainly going to be interesting to see how this sorts out.

IMO I see Rondo and Ellington as the odd man out/ minimal mpg choices in that group. More specialists then consistent rotation players.

To my eye, starters are WB and Bazemore. With Nunn and Monk as the main bench players. I think THT will get more play at SF as James sits or “plays up” to PF as seems to be discussed. Ariza is another deep bench specialist minimal mpg player most of the season.

Those nights with fourth quarter garbage time could get real interesting if the end of the bench getting a chance to stretch their legs has a lineup of Rondo, Ellington, Ariza, Melo, Howard. Lol


I agree with the 1st part, but am worried the team will blow past the 2nd part and have Ariza as a steady reserve. I don't know how much he has in the tank to play reserve PF and fight for rebounds. I'm concerned we don't have enough legit, young forward depth on the roster as we're expecting 2 older, natural SFs to play up at PF, while also asking 2 shorter swingmen (Baze and THT) to do the same.


 
Author: Lucky_Shot 
Posted: 09/22 5:56 PM 
 
MIMLaker wrote:
fansincemagic wrote:
Monk is the wildcard, he signed early and the Lakers continued to add quality guards, he might get buried. Nunn, Baze and THT will get PT, Ellington will be situational.

This isn't a slight on Monk, but by mid-season it may be the best for both parties if they make a trade unless he leaps someone. If he shows flashes but keeps riding the pine, they may deal him for a cheap defensive forward or stretch 4/5.


Monk and Nunn were announced on Day 2 of FA. Ellington and Baze were announced Day 1 with Ariza.

Out of the entire backcourt, Ellington has the highest number of 3 attempts and highest overall 3-percentage the past 4-5 years. I think he opens the season as the starting 2-guard. That may change after the first couple of months once everyone on the roster figures out D and gets into rhythm, and I can totally see Coach giving various players a 2-3 week stint of being in the rotation (while others get DNPs) to test them out until we get past the ASB.

Monk could very well be out of rotation and behind Nunn to start the year due to youth, lack of playoff experience. He may p[op off alter in the eyar and be a sparkplug off the bench, but I'm genuinely puzzle by Pelinka signing both him and Nunn. Monk may be a bit more explosive off the hope, but it's skill set and positiional redundancy to me.

I figure THT and Baze and their short body/super-long wingspan frames will see a lot more time at the SF spot. That should help with the backcourt logjam.

I just wish we would've signed only one of Nunn or Monk and gotten a couple of more midsize/ big wings to make up for the loss of KCP, Kuz, AC, and Kieff. That's a lot of perimeter size we lost this summer, and we didn't have much to begin with.


We are going to be a more guard-oriented team this year. We will use more three-guard lineups than ever. That's not a bad thing, it will give us more speed but less size.

With little money to spend, Pelinka had to be thirty with his choices and went with more gifted guards over less talented wings.


 
Author: oaktown_dimond 
Posted: 09/22 6:02 PM 
 
i expect Rondo to have a clipboard in his hand more than a ball this season


 
Author: Lucky_Shot 
Posted: 09/22 6:08 PM 
 
oaktown_dimond wrote:
i expect Rondo to have a clipboard in his hand more than a ball this season


I think everyone here is underestimating Rondo again. It's still less than 1 year ago where he was a +24 in the finals


 
Author: wolfpaclaker 
Posted: 09/23 2:41 PM 
 
Lucky_Shot wrote:
oaktown_dimond wrote:
i expect Rondo to have a clipboard in his hand more than a ball this season


I think everyone here is underestimating Rondo again. It's still less than 1 year ago where he was a +24 in the finals

It is not just that. Simply think about how tough it was for Dennis to get AD going last year. We never saw those plays. Where Dennis gets AD going. Heck, not even with Trez and Dennis.

With Rondo, he may be giving you nothing in other areas, but the 5 minutes he will play, AD will get the ball and get confidence in his game. It is not a coincidence IMO that ADs 2 best playoffs were with Rondo next to him. The way Rondo gets AD the ball is second to none. Bron can do it as well, but Bron's got to score himself. The Rondo/AD chemistry is elite. You need that to set the tone for how the Lakers want to play with AD. We were just so bad at that last year. Frustrating to watch.


 
Author: King Randle 
Posted: 09/23 3:00 PM 
 
oaktown_dimond wrote:
i expect Rondo to have a clipboard in his hand more than a ball this season


Vogel just said as much yesterday....he won't be playing much during the year....Russ and Nunn are your PG's mainly...Rondo enters the equation possibly in the post season where every possession is important.


 
Author: gng930 
Posted: 09/23 3:49 PM 
 
A few new things to consider since the OP:

1. Gasol trade
2. RP announcing AD/LBJ position changes
3. AD bulking up
4. Vogel clarifying Rondo's role

I think this opens up a lot of opportunities for 3-guard lineups with Baze and THT being the most likely candidates to shift up which they have in the past. They will also benefit from Ariza likely being load managed. And I think the team will really try to minimize the traditional PF role. Hopefully this sets up an eventual Ennis signing because there are still gaps to fill especially when you consider that there will be at least some degree of load management for AD and LBJ.

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