Zach LaVine
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LakerLanny
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 8:49 am    Post subject:

malicious_intent wrote:
I think Levine has done so well at the combine because he's had almost a full year now to get used to all that hieght he picked up overnight. Going From a small pg to a off guard with hieght in a year and starting is pretty impressive. I think people are forgetting he was recruited as a short pg.

His upside is substantial


Yes, in the NBA you have to have either outstanding athletic ability or a freakish talent as far as shooting, rebound, defense to make it.

Whether or not he got minutes over the coaches son or missed some shots in Pac 12 play isn't relevant to whether or not he can make it in the pros.

I don't remember guys like Jrue Holiday or Westbrook being huge stars at UCLA but they both measured out well athletically when tested by the pro scouts and both have proven they can be very good NBA players, in Westbrook's case a Top 10 player in the league.

I am not saying this kid will be either of those guys in the NBA, but clearly his size, athletic ability and skill set (not to mention he is a baby still age wise) make him VERY attractive to NBA teams above others who may have put up better stats in the Pac 12 last season.
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LakerDYnasty72
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 10:03 am    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
malicious_intent wrote:
I think Levine has done so well at the combine because he's had almost a full year now to get used to all that hieght he picked up overnight. Going From a small pg to a off guard with hieght in a year and starting is pretty impressive. I think people are forgetting he was recruited as a short pg.

His upside is substantial


Yes, in the NBA you have to have either outstanding athletic ability or a freakish talent as far as shooting, rebound, defense to make it.

Whether or not he got minutes over the coaches son or missed some shots in Pac 12 play isn't relevant to whether or not he can make it in the pros.

I don't remember guys like Jrue Holiday or Westbrook being huge stars at UCLA but they both measured out well athletically when tested by the pro scouts and both have proven they can be very good NBA players, in Westbrook's case a Top 10 player in the league.

I am not saying this kid will be either of those guys in the NBA, but clearly his size, athletic ability and skill set (not to mention he is a baby still age wise) make him VERY attractive to NBA teams above others who may have put up better stats in the Pac 12 last season.


Yep, he's got the athletic tools, but I can't shake the recollection I have of watching him in the few games I saw. The recollection is other than athletic tools he did nothing of note. But then I was very much asleep on Westbrook too. I had no idea he would be this good.
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LakerLanny
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 11:21 am    Post subject:

LakerDYnasty72 wrote:
But then I was very much asleep on Westbrook too. I had no idea he would be this good.


You and me both. I remember Westbrook threw down a few amazing alley oop dunks at UCLA, but I had no idea that he could do all the other things he does.

I remember when OKC drafted him at (I think) #3 in the draft I was very surprised and thought it was a major reach. Which shows I had no clue.
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 12:34 pm    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
LakerDYnasty72 wrote:
But then I was very much asleep on Westbrook too. I had no idea he would be this good.


You and me both. I remember Westbrook threw down a few amazing alley oop dunks at UCLA, but I had no idea that he could do all the other things he does.

I remember when OKC drafted him at (I think) #3 in the draft I was very surprised and thought it was a major reach. Which shows I had no clue.


I certainly saw it but those were mostly in practice. People were astounded that Westbrook was this kind of player but he was a real Jekyll/Hyde under Howland, who managed to not win a championship despite fielding a team that would make the semis in the Eastern Conference. He was every bit the NBA player in the practices but under the thumb of Howland, was mortal and invisible. He got to boost his stock through defense, which was the only thing Howland would let him shine in. Was not surprised that he'd do well in the pros.
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 4:02 pm    Post subject:

I haven't seen a go-to game skill demonstrated on the court from LaVine yet.

At UCLA, he didn't do anything real well except run very very fast. Most notably, he didn't well enough to play ahead of Bryce Alford as the backup point guard throughout the season. Even in the one game where he started (as Anderson and Adams were suspended, home, vs Oregon) it was Alford who took over the game for the Bruins, not LaViine.

STRANGE ...

I predict a D-League year or two for this one.
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 9:46 pm    Post subject:

His physical gifts are undeniable, but I've seen a gazillion guys with physical gifts never make it.
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 11:03 pm    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
malicious_intent wrote:
I think Levine has done so well at the combine because he's had almost a full year now to get used to all that hieght he picked up overnight. Going From a small pg to a off guard with hieght in a year and starting is pretty impressive. I think people are forgetting he was recruited as a short pg.

His upside is substantial


Yes, in the NBA you have to have either outstanding athletic ability or a freakish talent as far as shooting, rebound, defense to make it.

Whether or not he got minutes over the coaches son or missed some shots in Pac 12 play isn't relevant to whether or not he can make it in the pros.

I don't remember guys like Jrue Holiday or Westbrook being huge stars at UCLA but they both measured out well athletically when tested by the pro scouts and both have proven they can be very good NBA players, in Westbrook's case a Top 10 player in the league.

I am not saying this kid will be either of those guys in the NBA, but clearly his size, athletic ability and skill set (not to mention he is a baby still age wise) make him VERY attractive to NBA teams above others who may have put up better stats in the Pac 12 last season.

Jrue was underused because of Collison. However, he was a proven point guard prospect with actual point guard skills when he was forced off ball because of a senior point guard. Westbrook had elite athleticism to go with elite aggression, but you still saw him struggle as a decision maker and point guard but at least he's attacking and defending.

LaVine hasn't show the aggression, and he doesn't have the credentials Jrue did coming out of high school as a playmaker.

I get the fascination due to his shot, solid handles, and athleticism. However, this is a guy that is statistically one of the worst at getting to the line by a long shot which tells me he isn't aggressive driving to the basket. He isn't a great passer at all. And he isn't a great defender.

Westbrook was at the very least a very, very good defender. LaVine is not. That turns me off LaVine because while Westbrook didn't have the skill set, he did play the same as he did now. Fiery and aggressive. LaVine 's game seems to be dictated by whether his shot goes in or not which is never a good sign.
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 11:21 am    Post subject:

LakerDYnasty72 wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
malicious_intent wrote:
I think Levine has done so well at the combine because he's had almost a full year now to get used to all that hieght he picked up overnight. Going From a small pg to a off guard with hieght in a year and starting is pretty impressive. I think people are forgetting he was recruited as a short pg.

His upside is substantial


Yes, in the NBA you have to have either outstanding athletic ability or a freakish talent as far as shooting, rebound, defense to make it.

Whether or not he got minutes over the coaches son or missed some shots in Pac 12 play isn't relevant to whether or not he can make it in the pros.

I don't remember guys like Jrue Holiday or Westbrook being huge stars at UCLA but they both measured out well athletically when tested by the pro scouts and both have proven they can be very good NBA players, in Westbrook's case a Top 10 player in the league.

I am not saying this kid will be either of those guys in the NBA, but clearly his size, athletic ability and skill set (not to mention he is a baby still age wise) make him VERY attractive to NBA teams above others who may have put up better stats in the Pac 12 last season.


Yep, he's got the athletic tools, but I can't shake the recollection I have of watching him in the few games I saw. The recollection is other than athletic tools he did nothing of note. But then I was very much asleep on Westbrook too. I had no idea he would be this good.


He didn't stand out at all when I watched. In fact, I had to look for him to see him work because I caught all his hype before I ever watched him play and I was left kind of scratching my head. People refer to his lack of minutes, not being featured, etc. and those are valid points. But so is having little to no impact on the game in which you are playing.

Especially when 1 of them is against the Conference leader and #1 overall team in the country and the other 3 are NCAA tourney games.

I'm not saying he'll be a scrub but unless he starts juicing like Westbrook, he's probably going to be a lot more like a Rex Chapman play-alike.
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 10:23 pm    Post subject:

Gimme_the_rock wrote:
LakerDYnasty72 wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
malicious_intent wrote:
I think Levine has done so well at the combine because he's had almost a full year now to get used to all that hieght he picked up overnight. Going From a small pg to a off guard with hieght in a year and starting is pretty impressive. I think people are forgetting he was recruited as a short pg.

His upside is substantial


Yes, in the NBA you have to have either outstanding athletic ability or a freakish talent as far as shooting, rebound, defense to make it.

Whether or not he got minutes over the coaches son or missed some shots in Pac 12 play isn't relevant to whether or not he can make it in the pros.

I don't remember guys like Jrue Holiday or Westbrook being huge stars at UCLA but they both measured out well athletically when tested by the pro scouts and both have proven they can be very good NBA players, in Westbrook's case a Top 10 player in the league.

I am not saying this kid will be either of those guys in the NBA, but clearly his size, athletic ability and skill set (not to mention he is a baby still age wise) make him VERY attractive to NBA teams above others who may have put up better stats in the Pac 12 last season.


Yep, he's got the athletic tools, but I can't shake the recollection I have of watching him in the few games I saw. The recollection is other than athletic tools he did nothing of note. But then I was very much asleep on Westbrook too. I had no idea he would be this good.


He didn't stand out at all when I watched. In fact, I had to look for him to see him work because I caught all his hype before I ever watched him play and I was left kind of scratching my head. People refer to his lack of minutes, not being featured, etc. and those are valid points. But so is having little to no impact on the game in which you are playing.

Especially when 1 of them is against the Conference leader and #1 overall team in the country and the other 3 are NCAA tourney games.

I'm not saying he'll be a scrub but unless he starts juicing like Westbrook, he's probably going to be a lot more like a Rex Chapman play-alike.


Sometimes having the right tools will get you picked very high. Marvin Williams will agree. The thing with Marvin Williams was he was athletic but he wasn't the best athlete. Lavine is the best athlete and his shot is silky. Of course he needs conditioning and grooming but so did Kobe, Bynum as well.

Lavine's potential is out the roof. I can honestly say I would not be mad if the Lakers reached and drafted him. Around 7, no one is a for sure shot. Randle, in college was a man. In the NBA he is undersized and doesn't box out as well as other undersized PFs. Gordon is great defensively but his offense leaves much to be desired. Vonleh will not drop to the 7th, that guy is a stud. Dougie McBuckets scares me, Mike Miller ceiling. Smart is the safest bet, but if he drops to us that tells me there is a small red flag somewhere.

I personally think none of the lottery players will have immediate impact on the game. They will all take a year or two. If Ant Davis was in this draft, he is a clear cut number 1. While these players are good, I think we have too much time to play it safe. The Lakers aren't contending next year. Let's hit one out the park. Let's reach for someone with potential. Lavine is that player for me.
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postandpivot
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:12 pm    Post subject:

24 wrote:
His physical gifts are undeniable, but I've seen a gazillion guys with physical gifts never make it.
but you havent seen a gazillion guys with his insane physical gifts + ball handling ability + a real jumpshot(catch and shoot, off the curl, and off the bounce).

when you have a guy with all of that. you're talking about JJ redick with a bit more height, hops, quicks and handles. yes, he can tranlsate.

worse case scenario. he could literally become a quicky JJ/korver player. that in transition will wow the crowd.

best case scenario. we dont know.


the one knock on him. is he's like most guys who can shoot very well early in life. they dont like attacking the basket in the half court. because they are use to shooting jumpers. even when they do attack. they attack and make a nice shake move to create space(nick young). then pull up again.

especially for guys that are very thin(which lavine is).

its almost unnatural for these type of guys to be coached into rushing the rim and getting Ft's and foul calls on their behalf. thats why EXUM is so impressive. he's not as athletic as lavine. but he's a tad bit longer it think. but exum actually likes to attack even though he's a very thin guy. but lavine can shoot much better then exum.

i have a feeling lavine could turn out to be a very nice combo guard. since he was recently a pg. this is where the league is going anyway. get yourself multiple combo guards on the court at the same time. so you have multiple perimeter guys that can setup others and create their own shot.

for instance. imagine

pg-marcus smart(with a jumpshot)
sg-lavine
sf-kobe

or

pg-kobe
sg-lavine
sf-nick young


3 guys that can create their own shot,
3 guys that can create offense for others
3 guys that can shoot if someone drives and kicks.

that means the defense has to chase the ball all around the court. thats very tiring and hard to do. which is why its so hard to deal with the heat( chalmers/cole + dwhistle +Flop james.

3 ball handlers.
even ray ray is a good passer. and he can shoot the 3. thats tough to deal with.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:38 am    Post subject:

LaVine is far from being Redick in terms of shooting. Redick was posting 39% on 7 threes as a freshman and eventually hit 42% on 9 threes where he was one of the main options. Not to mention he shot 91% from the free throw line. Want to talk about not being an attacking player? Redick shot more free throws per game than LaVine did as a freshman...that's a huge area of concern. LaVine is posting 37.5% but only about 3 attempts a game. Also, he started off hot then cooled off drastically. And he's shooting average from the free throw line.

Calling him a Redick who can jump is a huge understatement of Redick's shooting ability.

As a combo guard, LaVine was one of the worst shooting guard prospects in creating for others. I can see him developing into Danny Green with more athleticism in the open court if he works hard.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:05 pm    Post subject:

I understand why people don't want Lavine but to say if he works hard he may become Danny Green is crazy talk.

Let someone offer that trade to the spurs TODAY, with a potential game deciding game three on the way and see how fast green is shipped out.

That's grossly underrating Lavine.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:05 pm    Post subject:

repandpresent wrote:
I understand why people don't want Lavine but to say if he works hard he may become Danny Green is crazy talk.

Let someone offer that trade to the spurs TODAY, with a potential game deciding game three on the way and see how fast green is shipped out.

That's grossly underrating Lavine.




a guy who has shot 48%(!!!) for two seasons in a row in the NBA playoffs from three vs. a guy who barely shot 37% in the pac 12 this season.

r.c. buford >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> repandpresent
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:09 pm    Post subject:

repandpresent wrote:
I understand why people don't want Lavine but to say if he works hard he may become Danny Green is crazy talk.

Let someone offer that trade to the spurs TODAY, with a potential game deciding game three on the way and see how fast green is shipped out.

That's grossly underrating Lavine.


At least Green is in the Finals of something
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:59 am    Post subject:

repandpresent wrote:
I understand why people don't want Lavine but to say if he works hard he may become Danny Green is crazy talk.

Let someone offer that trade to the spurs TODAY, with a potential game deciding game three on the way and see how fast green is shipped out.

That's grossly underrating Lavine.

And you're grossly overrating LaVine.

If you think the Spurs trade Green for LaVine today with the Finals on the line you are out of your mind. LaVine couldn't even help UCLA, but he can help the Spurs? Outside of his ability to jump really high and some ball handling he doesn't use, he isn't better than Green at anything. Not defense, not offense, not shooting.

He has the potential to be better of course. But as of now, if he were to be a hyper athletic Danny Green, I'd say that's reasonable.
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