LAKERS -at- SUNS - 12/18 - Thoughts and :-)) Ratings

 
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DancingBarry
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:48 pm    Post subject: LAKERS -at- SUNS - 12/18 - Thoughts and :-)) Ratings

Preseason Sweep... The Lakers went 4-0 in the preseason, closing it out with a 114-113 win over the Suns.

It was ugly to start. LeBron played turnover-prone ball on offense as we stumbled out of the gates. Defensively, they struggled with Gasol in the drop coverage. They trailed by as many as 21 in the first half.

“Coach got on our defensive intensity at the half,” Anthony Davis said.

They made some adjustments coming out of the half. They pulled Gasol out on the perimeter instead of hanging back in drop coverage. They also sat Kuzma for Matthews. Meanwhile, on offense, Anthony Davis was hitting threes like freethrows as the Lakers reeled in the Suns. Quite a shooting display by him.

We went to the deep bench to close the deal in the fourth. Quinn Cook came up with a couple of key shots, including the eventual game winner with a coast-to-coast drive.

It was a choppy preseason, but no matter the ups and downs, the Lakers were able to pull out the wins. Now the games start to count.


LeBron -- -- Ugly start. He had 4 turnovers in the first 3 minutes and the team trailed 14-3. Good job getting to the line in the first half with some aggressive attacks, but he only made 5-10. The team was a combined 15-25 from the line (60%) in the first half. More turnovers as the game went along. He’d finish with 8 turnovers to 4 assists. He doesn’t seem like he’s quite up to game speed. He did hit 3-4 from three (Lakers as a team shot 50% from three this preseason). Defensively, some moments where the rotations were shortcutted. “It’s going to be a challenge for us,” Vogel said of the short offseason. We’re going to be thrown into the fire with a couple of playoff teams out of the gates. I suspect LeBron will be more or less ready, but there’s a lot of work to be done integrating the new guys. The Stats: He scored 20 points on 6-11 shooting (3-4 from three, 5-10 from the line) to go with 8 boards, 4 assists, 1 steal, 8 turnovers and 2 fouls in 25 minutes. He was a -5.

Davis -- -- “Coach wants me to shoot more threes so why not get used to it in the preseason and get more shots up,” AD said. Why not? That three ball was looking sweet. He had 16 points in the first half on 4-6 shooting. He showed the range, sinking a couple of threes, as well as the low-post game where he powered in a couple of hoops. To start the second half, he swished a three off the pindown play with Gasol hitting him. He then pushed up the dribble and swished a pull-up three. He then sank a step-back wing three (he’d airball a three next time down). But to end the quarter, he’d step to his right and swish a three at the buzzer. Just on fire. He’d finish with 35 points on 11-16 shooting (6-7 from three) after three quarters. He’s pretty good. Sheesh. The Stats: He scored 35 points on 11-16 shooting (6-7 from three, 7-10 from the line) to go with 6 boards, 3 assists, 2 steals, 3 blocks, 1 turnover and 1 foul in 30 minutes. He was a -4.

Caldwell-Pope -- -- A strong effort out of the gate, swishing a corner three to get us going. He added in a couple more threes. One off a behind-the-back pass from LeBron, the other on a setup from Gasol as Kuz cut and KCP stepped back to the three line to take the pass. That second read we run with AD for some of his looks. He had a nice layup as well rolling off a screen he set for LeBron on the perimeter and going hard to the rim. KCP brings the intensity, which is going to be important with guys maybe a little tired to start the season. He picked up a tech in the first quarter, so he doesn’t care if it’s preseason, regular season or playoffs. He’s playing his game. The short offseason helps him, I think. He’s picked up right where he left off. The Stats: He scored 15 points on 5-8 shooting (3-6 from three, 2-3 from the line) to go with 1 board, 1 steal, 1 turnover and no fouls in 24 minutes. He was a -1.

Kuzma -- -- I know he wants to work on shooting on the move, but it looks really forced at times. He missed all three of his threes. He scored just a couple times. One on a hook across the lane late the game, another on a jumper on the move. Kuz got the start. Booker had 20 points on 6-8 shooting in the first half. We started Matthews in the second half in Kuz’s spot and the team picked up the D. He tarnished his good preseason with this one. The Stats: He scored 4 points on 2-9 shooting (0-3 from three) to go with 3 assists, 1 turnover and 1 foul in 27 minutes. He was a -2.

Gasol -- -- The drop coverage looks awful most of the time. It’s an easy pull-up jumper for the guard. He had a moment in the first half where he tried to take a step up and they threw the ball over his head for a lob. So he can’t get caught in that in-between area, either. The drop coverage is especially easy money when that guard is Booker. The focus on Gasol’s signing has been meeting the Nuggets in the playoff and dealing with Jokic/Murray. In the second half, we saw how we need to play that. Gasol got out on the perimeter more, we took the ball out of the guard’s hands with pressure, then scrambled to catch up. In the previous game during that second quarter run where Gasol was in on some good D, you saw him doing that against CP3. Hopefully, we don’t get off to slow starts like we have. If so, you could make a strong case for going with an AD, Morris, LeBron front court trio to start until the team gets itself together. Offensively, he scored off a couple of freethrows. He led the team with LeBron in assists with 4. Typically, he’s that trigger man at the top of the arc when we run our corner pindowns and he makes the read for shooters or cutters. The Stats: He scored 2 points on 0-3 shooting (0-1 from three, 2-2 from the line) to go with 3 boards, 4 assists, 1 block, 1 turnover and 2 fouls in 21 minutes. He was a -7.

Horton-Tucker -- -- They didn’t put the ball in his hands with a lot of consistency like we’ve seen in some of his previous games. He had the shot going, so he worked it out like a vet. A couple scores in the first half, one on a step-back to swish a jumper from the wing. The other he attacked, hung and took contact to finish over a defender. On that play, he beat the first man off the screen, crossed over the second man and then finished over the third defender. Yeah, that stuff is looking like we used a lottery pick on some bluechip from Kentucky or something. Or we never gave up that No. 4 pick to the Pelicans in the AD trade and used it on a stud guard. That’s how he’s playing. In the second half tonight, he swished a three trailing the break. He had a drive, draw and dish to Harrell for a dunk. He drilled a wing three right over his man. Then he hit a baseline fade. To help close, he again teamed up to hit Cacok off the two-man game for a score. Efficient night. We didn’t really put the ball in his hands to create without others touching it first and giving it to him coming off handoffs. Really curious what his role will be and what that will look like come playoff time. We’re 11 deep heading into the season. I want the ball in his hands. I want him to get reps and opportunities to make mistakes before we get to the postseason. You saw tonight on D we had some breakdowns and guys were in his ear about the team defensive schemes. We need that kind of learning experience and the only way to do that is by throwing him out there. The Stats: He scored 12 points on 5-8 shooting (2-2 from three) to go with 2 boards, 2 assists, 1 steal, 2 turnovers and 3 fouls in 24 minutes. He was a +4.

Harrell -- -- He led the team with a +10. He wasn’t spectacular on either end, but I think the energy that the bench brought was important. No shot blocks defensively in this game, but he drew a charge. In fact, each of three new free agents we picked up (Gasol, Matthews and Harrell) all drew a charge on a rotation. It’s a new look for the team. Offensively, Harrell missed some chippies he should have had. He also took a couple of jumphook against bigger defenders that he shouldn’t have attempted on iso. Our guards set him up (AC with an interior feed and later THT on a drive and dish for a dunk). One score Harrell had, he just powered up and through Booker who was trying to body him up in the post. Booker paid the price and ended up the floor while Trezz got the bucket. The Stats: He scored 8 points on 4-9 shooting to go with 4 boards, 2 assists, 1 steal, 1 turnover and 2 fouls in 23 minutes. He was a +10.

Matthews -- -- We started him in the second half in place of Kuzma at the SG to defend Booker. Booker would finish with 7 points in the half after scoring 20 in the first half. He’s had some trouble finishing around the rim in the preseason. He’s an average finisher, so I hope our bigs keep that in mind as there might be some putback opportunities. He sank one three tonight for his only points. We ran him off some stagger screens for the quick-fire three going to his right. The Stats: He scored 3 points on 1-3 shooting (1-2 from three, 0-2 from the line) to go with 2 boards, 1 turnover and 1 foul in 20 minutes. He was a +3.

Caruso -- -- I just like the energy. Again, the stat sheet isn’t going to show much other than 3 assists and a +8. But he drew a couple of illegal screen calls to get stops. He stole a kickout. He had a great switch on an inbounds on a good defensive stand. We came out soft on D and helped the Lakers start to punch back a little there. He drilled another three in this game on a kickout. The two he’s taken this preseason have looked like money. The Stats: He scored 3 points on 1-2 shooting (1-1 from three) to go with 3 boards, 3 assists, 1 steal, 1 turnover and no fouls in 17 minutes. He was a +8.

Morris -- -- He had just a couple of scores in this one. He scored off an attack where he and Harrell worked the two-man game. I would not have expected that combo, but I kind of want to see it again. He scored late in the game, burying a turnaround in the paint. Like KCP, he picked up a tech in the first half. The Stats: He scored 4 points on 2-6 shooting (0-3 from three) to go with 1 board, 3 assists and 3 fouls in 15 minutes. He was a +7.

Cook -- -- The closer. He got the game winner tonight on a coast-to-coast drive for a layup with 26 seconds left. He also had hit a 17-footer with the clock low earlier. And he worked it out with the deep bench defensively down the stretch. Solid preseason from him. The Stats: He scored 4 points on 2-3 shooting (0-1 from three) to go with 1 board, 1 assist and no fouls in 4 minutes. He was a -2.

McKinnie -- -- He came in with about 5 minutes left to play. Not enough time to look like anything but a deer in the headlights out there. He had a deflection on a defensive rotation. The Stats: He had 1 board and 1 foul in 5 minutes. He was a -2.

Cacok -- -- Another key bucket down the stretch working with THT off that two-man game. Those two spent all last year together so have run that quite a bit. He picked up another bucket on the break. We’ll likely need a garbage time big to eat some minutes, so I expect to see him with some more frequency this season. The Stats: He scored 4 points on 2-3 shooting to go with 1 board and 1 foul in 4 minutes. He was a -2.

Antetokounmpo -- -- Really got no notes on him. The Stats: He had 1 steal in his 4 minutes. He was a -2.

Vogel -- -- Key Moment: He got on the team for the poor D at halftime. They responded coming out in that third quarter. The won the last three quarters, but the defense during that third showed some signs of life from the starters, which was reassuring. When they flexed that muscle in the past couple of games, it was noticeable.

Key Substitution: Maybe pulling Kuzma from the starters for Matthews in the second half. We’re so deep this season, it wouldn’t surprise me if we see that with frequency during the regular season. If it’s not working, he’ll change it up. We saw that in the playoffs. He’ll be searching for playing time for guys so I wouldn’t be surprised if one of those guard spots was fluid from game to game.

Key Stat: We lost the break 12-4. The team hasn’t been playing with speed this preseason. Something to keep an eye on. On the positive side, we shot 16-30 from three. They’ve been scorching from behind the arc in the preseason. Will we be a better shooting team? Will we be a slower team? Too early to tell if these things are trends or just a preseason thing.


Last edited by DancingBarry on Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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RhodyRay
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:04 am    Post subject:

DB,

Thanks!
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:13 am    Post subject:

I thought LeBron looked really winded most of the time he was on the floor. He’s not ready for a tough game yet. Hopefully, he can get back into game shape quickly.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:16 am    Post subject:

Lakers look like they were ready to go home early on in this game. When they were down by 20 in the 1st, I still had faith they were going to win this game and they did.

It looks like this team has the same chemistry as last year, which is a good thing.

On to the regular season.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:34 am    Post subject:

Ugly game that saw this team learned something valuable about itself that will serve them well in this upcoming historic season of many changes
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:05 am    Post subject:

Lebron with 11 turnovers in his 40 minutes of preseason play. It's easy to lack focus during the preseason, so I expect him to tighten that up. I was surprised by how sloppy we look handling passes.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:41 am    Post subject:

Thanks, DB!

We should be even better in transition than we were last year, once guys learn their lineup mates.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:55 am    Post subject:

RhodyRay wrote:
Lakers look like they were ready to go home early on in this game. When they were down by 20 in the 1st, I still had faith they were going to win this game and they did.

It looks like this team has the same chemistry as last year, which is a good thing.

On to the regular season.


the chemistry I think start at the top, new players already saying Lakers FO make them feel like family then I'm sure LeBron-AD bromance relationship rubs off on them also. Basically the opposite of Kawhi-PG
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:04 am    Post subject:

Games like this are just going to happen a lot more often this season. You will see a group that won a title and some vets like Marc Gasol, just come in and just not deliver on the road against a young emerging team such as the Suns or Grizzlies or any of those kind of situations.

One thing we forgot about in the bubble was the road play. Man, have our starters not looked good on the road since AD-Bron returned.

Right now I have the following concerns.

Marc Gasol - As a starter in athletic match ups his lack of foot speed is hurting on pick and roll defense. This will be something Vogel will have to deal with this season. With McGee/Dwight, you often saw him trust them to make a switch and then come back and protect the rim if need be. We are not seeing that with Marc, and it is hurting us. The other thing was stopping the ball, the Laker starting guards are not fighting hard enough to stop the ball and get through the screen.

Lebron
- He does not look in game shape, and defensively he is coasting. The intensity he was playing last preseason and RS on D is not there. Maybe this was to be expected, but the fact is, if you want your team to play defense at a high level, your leaders can not go James Harden on you. Not saying that Lebron is there, but it is clear he is far from being in game shape, and while I can be patient on offense, Lakers identity is their defense and Lebron is not competing hard enough there. If the plan is for Bron to coast on D early on and load manage during games, so he can be fresh late in the season, that's fine with me. But we have to get some defensive talent around him that can stop the ball and be very active. We can not pair him with slower players who can not move like we did with Marc Gasol on D, as great as the potential on offense is with Marc/AD/LBJ.

Schroder - Did not play in this one, but the RS is 3 days away and he has no defined role on the team right now. Frankly, what I liked about last year's team, is everyone knew their role almost right away. This was one of the concerns in the offseason. Niche role players is what I call them. It is very early, but we have to get on track with regards to what role each guy has. I understand the restraints in the situation though. Is Schroder our 3rd option, is he QB2 replacing Rondo? Is he secondary ballhandler to Bron? Leader of the 2nd unit? Seems THT is taking that one ....

Now on the positive there are some good things I'm seeing:

AD - Already looks like in monster shape again. He was incredible yesterday, in a typical game he would have gone off for 50, IMO. Just hitting everything from outside and some great post moves. You can see he is in his prime and peak the way he is moving in preseason. Hopefully AD can carry the Lakers this season, with his energy. He will need to be that guy this year especially if Bron needs to coast during the first portion of the RS.

Trez - Niche role player. He is coming in each game, with identical effort, role and we have found a spot for him. I really like that, as one of the new guys, you want him to fit in. He is going to be a load for teams, and I hope Frank cranks up his minutes with AD and Kieff, and reduces Marc's in the early part of the RS. This was not a game he could dominate on offense, but he still did what is asked of his role, and that is why I'm loving this signing right now.

THT - So exciting to see this. Again, like Trez, he is establishing the consistency each game in what he will bring. You can't expect guys to have great scoring or shooting nights each game, but what you want from them is the same role and effort to provide their role. THT is doing that. Right now, I consider him the engine of the 2nd unit.

KCP - Much like THT, Trez and AD, he is in his athletic prime, and knows his role. Really like how we can rely on KCP. Makes some 3s, runs on the break real well and compliments AD/Bron. I definitely think KCP should start.

I've found Wesley Matthews and Caruso to be what we expect, and again two more niche role players. I trust these guys to bring it. Not worried about them. Right now, I am concerned a bit about the defense with Marc Gasol, the lack of defined role for Schroder, and whether Lebron will be needed to helped a lot more on defense this year. On the positive side, the bench talent is ridiculous mismatch, almost as big a mismatch as having AD/Bron.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:18 am    Post subject:

Starters got outscored 27-12 in the first Q, until Marc was out there with Kuzma. Think the switch in the 2nd half to Matthews was a clear sign that the Kuzma starting project is over. Maybe the next move is to do away with starting Marc, because his lack of speed combined with Bron's coasting on D, I worry about the team establishing a lack of defensive powerhouse identity. You look back at Bron's late era Cavs teams, and they were offensively packed with talent but defensively you saw major slippage after 2016. You want to not see that happen here, and it's critical Frank avoids the same trend Lue allow those Cavs teams to establish. That defense has to be our 3rd superstar .... and I am really struggling to see how with Marc starting and Lebron needing to coast during the early part of the season, we can establish that.

Second half with Matthews in for Kuz, the Gasol/AD/Bron/Matthews/KCP lineup outscored the Suns by 23-17. It was not domination, by any means, but at least a little better. DB outlined some of that was Wesley on Booker.

I think AD/Bron/Matthews/KCP is our best bet defensively to start, and we should consider starting Caruso, in place of Marc Gasol when there is athletic match ups like last 2 games. When there are physical teams that will pound and beat up AD, I think AD should start at the 4 in the RS. But when we have situations where it is clear we need some defensive speed and more spacing on offense, I would start Caruso.

Marc Gasol, should be maybe used more as a situational starter, and a guy that we rely on heavily for the 2nd unit. As much potential as I see for the AD/Bron/Gasol trio on offense, I worry that it will cause us a lot of issues on defense.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:44 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
On the positive side, the bench talent is ridiculous mismatch, almost as big a mismatch as having AD/Bron.

This.

In this past preseason, the bench had extraordinarily high contributions to all of the wins. I cannot recall another Lakers' preseason like this.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:09 pm    Post subject:

Thanks DB! I was able to see the carnage at the start of the game, but not the comeback. Good to see a season sweep, but very mixed feelings about this game. I'm glad the defense picked up with Matthews out there in place of Kuzma.

Wolfpack I agree with your assessments as well, pretty much all of them.

I'm particularly concerned about Marc Gasol pairing up with LBJ. Marc brings some value as a big who can facilitate, and would have more of an impact with the second unit where he can do so. So far he looks like a terrible pairing with our starters though, high cost to defensive mobility and little benefit to make up for it.

Guard minutes are definitely going to take some time to work out with Schroeder, KCP, Matthews, Caruso, and THT all in the mix. Not sold on sliding Kuzma down on wings and big guards when we have this many capable guards who can defend the 2/3 and actually shut teams down instead of the mess I saw early in the game.

Good to see a win, really happy with Harrell, THT, AD, KCP, Caruso and Matthews this preseason.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:34 pm    Post subject:

Agree with Wolf about Marc. The slow, plodding, old starting group is going to get torched this season if we don't start Trezz instead against some teams. Lebron's not in shape but I think we all expected this after Danny joked that he was going to take the first month off hahaha

haha

(Not really funny)
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:48 pm    Post subject:

drae wrote:
Agree with Wolf about Marc. The slow, plodding, old starting group is going to get torched this season if we don't start Trezz instead against some teams. Lebron's not in shape but I think we all expected this after Danny joked that he was going to take the first month off hahaha

haha

(Not really funny)

There was a narrative the Lakers kind of killed this past season with their big front court. Everyone thought the Center position was dead, as was traditional big man to PG superstar duos. Playing big was seen as a negative thing, and needing to play Draymond Green style bigs was the only way to win apparently. We sort of killed all of that, and brought back that dynamic bigman-guard duo legacy back.

I would hate for that narrative to come back again about bigs, just because we signed a geriatric at the 5 spot to replace one of the greatest defensive Centers in the league history. Say whatever you want about Dwight, but he was fantastic on D last regular season. We need Marc to step up on this end if he wants to start. He can not set the tone of the team being that weak on D.

McGee was elite at rim protection and being active in challenging shots. Dwight was elite at getting on the ball defensively and making sure he could challenge anyone. There was a tone those guys set, that carried all season. Mostly it was their lack of offense that hurt us.

We do not want to lose that identity on D though. Happy that Vogel let the team have it at halftime and made the switch to Wesley. I hope in the future, he simply benches Marc any time Marc plays that soft on D and brings in Caruso, sliding AD to the 5, or even bringing in Trez. Trez may be smaller, but he will show on screens and not let guards get wide open jumpshots off a screen each time down.

Good thing is if Marc does show all season he can not do this as a full time starter, we have enough time until trade deadline to get an athletic C to come in and play a role for 15 minutes. Think about how late we signed Kieff. We have time to figure this out, if it comes to that. But like I said above, a lot of our problems are solved in the playoffs when AD slides over to being a 5 most of the time.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:46 pm    Post subject:

LeBron looking winded and out of rhythm is why I've said on this board that I wanted him to play all 4 preseason games while limiting his minutes. If he looks the way he did on Friday to start the regular season, we may get off to a slow start.

It's another reason why I think Schroder should start. His youth, speed and energy will help us get off to good starts each game.

We're the defending world champs, so I think teams will really come at us in the first quarter of games. During the Kobe era we would get off to slow starts whenever we were defending champs. The NBA is tougher and more talented now that it was in the 2000s, so we can't afford to start games off slow.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:49 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:

Schroder - Did not play in this one, but the RS is 3 days away and he has no defined role on the team right now. Frankly, what I liked about last year's team, is everyone knew their role almost right away. This was one of the concerns in the offseason. Niche role players is what I call them. It is very early, but we have to get on track with regards to what role each guy has. I understand the restraints in the situation though. Is Schroder our 3rd option, is he QB2 replacing Rondo? Is he secondary ballhandler to Bron? Leader of the 2nd unit? Seems THT is taking that one ....

Maybe all 3 should be Schroder's role. If he starts, I'm sure there's a way to arrange the rotations so that he's still playing with the bench unit a lot.

THT doesn't need to be the guy bringing the ball upcourt. Schroder/LeBron can do that, then give it to THT in our halfcourt sets and let him do his thing.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:18 pm    Post subject:

Thanks, as always, for the thoughts and ratings, DB!

Imo, I wouldn't be too harsh on Kuz, regarding this game. He offensive thrives in a motion offense, where the ball is being shared. When he shares the floor with LeBron and AD, the ball tends to find them, and stick. He gets lost in the shuffle.

Defensively, he wasn't bad against Booker. Booker scored a lot, off of picks/screens. Wes is better at fighting through those, then Kuz.

Was really jazzed to see that THT had a consistently good preseason. Bodes well for him, going into the regular season. It's a short sample size, but I like Schroder, KCP, LeBron, AD, and Gasol, as our starting lineup. THT, Caruso, Wes, Kuz, Trezz/Kieff, as our bench unit. That's deep! Lakers!
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:43 am    Post subject:

slavavov wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:

Schroder - Did not play in this one, but the RS is 3 days away and he has no defined role on the team right now. Frankly, what I liked about last year's team, is everyone knew their role almost right away. This was one of the concerns in the offseason. Niche role players is what I call them. It is very early, but we have to get on track with regards to what role each guy has. I understand the restraints in the situation though. Is Schroder our 3rd option, is he QB2 replacing Rondo? Is he secondary ballhandler to Bron? Leader of the 2nd unit? Seems THT is taking that one ....

Maybe all 3 should be Schroder's role. If he starts, I'm sure there's a way to arrange the rotations so that he's still playing with the bench unit a lot.

THT doesn't need to be the guy bringing the ball upcourt. Schroder/LeBron can do that, then give it to THT in our halfcourt sets and let him do his thing.

That's a good point. I think Dennis could do all 3, but I do wish by this point he would have at least established himself in one of them. If he is going to be a big minute player, like 30-34 minutes, then for sure, you would need him to play all 3 roles.
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