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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 9:16 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
^something like that, but I disagree with a lot of the picks. I just like a different way of structure, because it somehow makes it easier to sort it in terms of BPA best to worst.

I appreciate the Springer over Suggs call.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 9:37 am    Post subject:

LakersMD wrote:
Aside from Giddey who are the best playmaking perimeter guys in the late lotto to 22 range?

Vrenz Bleijenbergh is the most interesting potential playmaker since he's 6'9-ish with a developing jumper and the athleticism to defend, but he's probably never going to be a guy who runs offense every time down the floor.

Sharife Cooper and Daishen Nix are two of the best playmakers in the draft, but they have big warts. Cooper is generously listed at 6'1, he's not a great athlete, and his shooting is a work in progress. Nix is a stout 6'4, but he's fat right now, a mediocre athlete, and shot 13% from 3 in the G-League. Both guys are young and can really pass and handle the rock, though - they might be worth the gamble to develop even if the bust-ability factor is high with both.

Tre Mann (6'5), Jared Butler (6'3), Ayo Dosunmu (6'5), Rokas Jokubaitas (6'4), and Deuce McBride (6'2) aren't the same caliber of playmaker as the guys above, but they're more polished scorers who can all probably run a bench unit. Davion Mitchell (6'3) and Joel Ayayi (6'5) seem more like SGs to me, though they can pass some. David Johnson (6'5) is a fun passer, but he has a SG handle so he can't consistently leverage his passing skills in the half-court.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 10:40 am    Post subject:

^ Thanks. Not necessarily looking for a guy who can run offense every time down but someone who has feel and can make reads to create for others. THT is the only perimeter player outside Bron/DS to show some flashes that maybe he can develop that aspect of his game, but he seems like he has a score first mentality. The other guys’s don’t have it in their games and it can bog down the offense.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 10:43 am    Post subject:

Took a whirl on Tankathon and threw together a mock of what I would do if I were GM of each team:

1) TOR - Cade (duh)
2) OKC - Mobley (duh)
3) HOU - Kuminga (On a team with no surefire building blocks, take a big swing and hope Kuminga can be developed into Jalylen Brown rather than Andrew Wiggins)

4) DET - J. Green (pointz!)
5) GSW - Suggs (If the Warriors can't trade this pick, Suggs would be a fine consolation prize who would fit their roster and culture from day one)

6) ORL - Springer
7) CLE - K. Johnson
8) ORL - Moody
9) SAC - J. Johnson (This is the point in the draft where things get fuzzy. SAC seems like they'll part ways with Bagley, so maybe Johnson will be a better pickup given his superior passing, defense, and even shooting)

10) NOP - K. Jones (He may be a flash in the pan, but the upside - especially on a roster in need of spacing and rim protection around Zion and BI - is worth the gamble for a team that has its core. Plus, think of the awesome dunkz!)

11) WAS - Giddey (The Wizards need to take a big swing, but they'll probably play it safe and draft Corey Kispert instead)

12) IND - Wagner (A perfect Pacers player)
13) SAS - Prkacin (A perfect Spurs player)
14) MEM - Vrenz B. (Draft Twitter darlings pair up)
15) CHA - Garuba
16) GSW - Kispert
17) BOS - Cooper (They need to inject some dynamism into their no-pass offense and Boston would be one of the best teams to cover for Cooper's defensive shortcomings)

18) OKC - Z. Williams (Worth the upside swing here on a team with multiple picks that's star hunting. Plus having Mobley, Poku, and Ziaire combine to form the skinniest frontcourt in NBA history would be funny)

19) ATL - Bouknight
20) HOU - Barnes (Not the best spot for him, but he's a competitor and in the short-run Wood should give him space to operate)

21) NYK - Mann
22) LAL - Sengun (I'd try to stash him for a year. He's so good so young that he could end up overcoming some of his physical limitations through sheer basketball smarts a la Jokic, but even if he ends up being a drop coverage big you have to sit in the playoffs, having a young regular season minutes eater who can take some of the scoring load off of AD would be a good get at this point in the draft)

23) NYK - Duarte
24) HOU - Butler
25) LAC - Mitchell
26) BKN - I. Jackson
27) DEN - Christopher
28) PHI - Bagley
29) PHO - Nix (Should've drafted Haliburton)
30) UTA - Thor
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 2:10 pm    Post subject:

LakersMD wrote:
^ Thanks. Not necessarily looking for a guy who can run offense every time down but someone who has feel and can make reads to create for others. THT is the only perimeter player outside Bron/DS to show some flashes that maybe he can develop that aspect of his game, but he seems like he has a score first mentality. The other guys’s don’t have it in their games and it can bog down the offense.

Vrenz B would be my choice if looking for another guy to generate offense with the second unit because he also brings size and could develop into a reasonable wing defender. Kill two birds with one stone.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 4:49 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
^something like that, but I disagree with a lot of the picks. I just like a different way of structure, because it somehow makes it easier to sort it in terms of BPA best to worst.

I appreciate the Springer over Suggs call.


That was one of the ones I disagreed with actually, but I think both can be successful NBA players.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 4:52 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Took a whirl on Tankathon and threw together a mock of what I would do if I were GM of each team:

1) TOR - Cade (duh)
2) OKC - Mobley (duh)
3) HOU - Kuminga (On a team with no surefire building blocks, take a big swing and hope Kuminga can be developed into Jalylen Brown rather than Andrew Wiggins)

4) DET - J. Green (pointz!)
5) GSW - Suggs (If the Warriors can't trade this pick, Suggs would be a fine consolation prize who would fit their roster and culture from day one)

6) ORL - Springer
7) CLE - K. Johnson
8) ORL - Moody
9) SAC - J. Johnson (This is the point in the draft where things get fuzzy. SAC seems like they'll part ways with Bagley, so maybe Johnson will be a better pickup given his superior passing, defense, and even shooting)

10) NOP - K. Jones (He may be a flash in the pan, but the upside - especially on a roster in need of spacing and rim protection around Zion and BI - is worth the gamble for a team that has its core. Plus, think of the awesome dunkz!)

11) WAS - Giddey (The Wizards need to take a big swing, but they'll probably play it safe and draft Corey Kispert instead)

12) IND - Wagner (A perfect Pacers player)
13) SAS - Prkacin (A perfect Spurs player)
14) MEM - Vrenz B. (Draft Twitter darlings pair up)
15) CHA - Garuba
16) GSW - Kispert
17) BOS - Cooper (They need to inject some dynamism into their no-pass offense and Boston would be one of the best teams to cover for Cooper's defensive shortcomings)

18) OKC - Z. Williams (Worth the upside swing here on a team with multiple picks that's star hunting. Plus having Mobley, Poku, and Ziaire combine to form the skinniest frontcourt in NBA history would be funny)

19) ATL - Bouknight
20) HOU - Barnes (Not the best spot for him, but he's a competitor and in the short-run Wood should give him space to operate)

21) NYK - Mann
22) LAL - Sengun (I'd try to stash him for a year. He's so good so young that he could end up overcoming some of his physical limitations through sheer basketball smarts a la Jokic, but even if he ends up being a drop coverage big you have to sit in the playoffs, having a young regular season minutes eater who can take some of the scoring load off of AD would be a good get at this point in the draft)

23) NYK - Duarte
24) HOU - Butler
25) LAC - Mitchell
26) BKN - I. Jackson
27) DEN - Christopher
28) PHI - Bagley
29) PHO - Nix (Should've drafted Haliburton)
30) UTA - Thor


I like these exercises. Every year, I have a tough time separating BPA vs. how teams would actually draft.

I think people are making the Sengun into Jokic comparisons a bit too much, but if it's someone like Domantas Sabonis, that'd be a big deal.
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 8:30 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Took a whirl on Tankathon and threw together a mock of what I would do if I were GM of each team:

1) TOR - Cade (duh)
2) OKC - Mobley (duh)
3) HOU - Kuminga (On a team with no surefire building blocks, take a big swing and hope Kuminga can be developed into Jalylen Brown rather than Andrew Wiggins)

4) DET - J. Green (pointz!)
5) GSW - Suggs (If the Warriors can't trade this pick, Suggs would be a fine consolation prize who would fit their roster and culture from day one)

6) ORL - Springer
7) CLE - K. Johnson
8) ORL - Moody
9) SAC - J. Johnson (This is the point in the draft where things get fuzzy. SAC seems like they'll part ways with Bagley, so maybe Johnson will be a better pickup given his superior passing, defense, and even shooting)

10) NOP - K. Jones (He may be a flash in the pan, but the upside - especially on a roster in need of spacing and rim protection around Zion and BI - is worth the gamble for a team that has its core. Plus, think of the awesome dunkz!)

11) WAS - Giddey (The Wizards need to take a big swing, but they'll probably play it safe and draft Corey Kispert instead)

12) IND - Wagner (A perfect Pacers player)
13) SAS - Prkacin (A perfect Spurs player)
14) MEM - Vrenz B. (Draft Twitter darlings pair up)
15) CHA - Garuba
16) GSW - Kispert
17) BOS - Cooper (They need to inject some dynamism into their no-pass offense and Boston would be one of the best teams to cover for Cooper's defensive shortcomings)

18) OKC - Z. Williams (Worth the upside swing here on a team with multiple picks that's star hunting. Plus having Mobley, Poku, and Ziaire combine to form the skinniest frontcourt in NBA history would be funny)

19) ATL - Bouknight
20) HOU - Barnes (Not the best spot for him, but he's a competitor and in the short-run Wood should give him space to operate)

21) NYK - Mann
22) LAL - Sengun (I'd try to stash him for a year. He's so good so young that he could end up overcoming some of his physical limitations through sheer basketball smarts a la Jokic, but even if he ends up being a drop coverage big you have to sit in the playoffs, having a young regular season minutes eater who can take some of the scoring load off of AD would be a good get at this point in the draft)

23) NYK - Duarte
24) HOU - Butler
25) LAC - Mitchell
26) BKN - I. Jackson
27) DEN - Christopher
28) PHI - Bagley
29) PHO - Nix (Should've drafted Haliburton)
30) UTA - Thor


I like these exercises. Every year, I have a tough time separating BPA vs. how teams would actually draft.

I think people are making the Sengun into Jokic comparisons a bit too much, but if it's someone like Domantas Sabonis, that'd be a big deal.

The Jokic comparison was solely on finding ways to be a plus on defense through awareness, quick hands, and stout rebounding, but Jokic is bigger with a 7'4-ish wingspan.

So maybe a better comparison would be hoping for Zaza Pachulia on defense with sub-Sabonis offense. If Sengun reaches full D. Sabonis he would be a huge get.
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 8:33 am    Post subject:

I'm over here buying up all of Draft Twitter's stock in Kuminga.
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 9:26 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
I'm over here buying up all of Draft Twitter's stock in Kuminga.


I definitely get it with the NBA level moves. I don't with the defense, results, jumpshot.

But that whole area from 4-roughly-10 is more or less the same to me. Big flaws for high caliber prospects.
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 9:33 am    Post subject:

https://twitter.com/cjmarchesani/status/1389996808869453825
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 11:51 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
I'm over here buying up all of Draft Twitter's stock in Kuminga.


I definitely get it with the NBA level moves. I don't with the defense, results, jumpshot.

But that whole area from 4-roughly-10 is more or less the same to me. Big flaws for high caliber prospects.

It's really as simple as 6'8 210 lb athletic 18-year-old wing flashes some iso-scoring and passing upside amidst a mediocre small sample size against mostly grown men. If you're going to let him jack up midrange jumpers as a rookie without accountability like Wiggins in Minnesota, you probably should stay away, but if you believe in your developmental staff, the potential return of a guy with his physical profile and skill flashes is too great to pass up too many times.

Going off of that guy CJ's draft board you posted and his earlier Twitter prompt, I'd rank the following 2020/2021 young lottery-ish big guards/wings (6-4+) thusly:

Cade
LaMelo
Ant
(Killian...?)
Kuminga
Green
Suggs
Springer
(Killian...?)
Keon J.
Franz
Okoro
(PatWill...?)
Moody
Hali
Bey
(PatWill...?)
Vassell
McDaniels
Vrenz
Avdija

ETA: Ugh, I forgot Giddey. Don't know where to put Giddey.
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Last edited by Baron Von Humongous on Thu May 06, 2021 12:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 12:12 pm    Post subject:

^Yeah, I still feel Green, Kuminga, Keon, Okoro, Moody, Vassell are all the relatively same group. If I had a great development team, I'd definitely go for Kuminga/Okoro. If it's shooting/guard skills, Green/Keon. If it's optimizing 3 and D types and adding some level of passing equity, it's Moody, Vassell. Franz and Avdija feel the same to me even if I like Franz more. The outlier guys then become McDaniels and Vrenz. McDaniels ... I knew his upbringing, but not all players are comfortable scaling down offensively. The same may be for Vrenz but I'm sure he understands he's at best the secondary creator.

That being said, all of these are Top 15 types. Any of them falling to LAL would be great.

Also, I really hate The Ringer/The Athletic mocks right now.
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 12:38 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
^Yeah, I still feel Green, Kuminga, Keon, Okoro, Moody, Vassell are all the relatively same group. If I had a great development team, I'd definitely go for Kuminga/Okoro. If it's shooting/guard skills, Green/Keon. If it's optimizing 3 and D types and adding some level of passing equity, it's Moody, Vassell. Franz and Avdija feel the same to me even if I like Franz more. The outlier guys then become McDaniels and Vrenz. McDaniels ... I knew his upbringing, but not all players are comfortable scaling down offensively. The same may be for Vrenz but I'm sure he understands he's at best the secondary creator.

That being said, all of these are Top 15 types. Any of them falling to LAL would be great.

Also, I really hate The Ringer/The Athletic mocks right now
.

Absolutely. V*cenie not buying Vrenz' athletic/frame combo is so weird to me when he has Barnes at #6, and KOC has gone off the deep end the past couple years (probably drives clicks).
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 5:12 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Absolutely. V*cenie not buying Vrenz' athletic/frame combo is so weird to me when he has Barnes at #6, and KOC has gone off the deep end the past couple years (probably drives clicks).


Vecenie has never been consistent with his thought process from prospect to prospect. 3 years of this now. I appreciate that he goes beyond 60 picks and that part to me is most valuable, but I don't learn anything new about his intel or mocks.

The Ringer itself gets clicks. I just think KOC is one of their most popular guys (and is at least a Laker guy) but terrible when it comes to the draft.
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