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PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2021 11:10 pm    Post subject:

misterchipmunk wrote:
I rather have Robert Sacre or Tarik Black than Trez


I’d rather have Ed Davis than Harrell.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 11:59 am    Post subject:

I like Trezz.

My problem is Vogel insisting on playing Trezz at the 5, even to go as far as to sacrifice our height by playing a small front-court lineup of 6'7 Trezz at the 5, and 6'8 Morris at the 4, a lineup that has been hot garbage on both the offensive and defensive ends.

Last night, Trezz was getting destroyed in the 2nd quarter, not by Jokic, but by JaVale freaking McGee going 4-5 on the field for 8 easy points in a span of just 3 mins between 10:56 - 8:10 in that quarter.

With Morris struggling for 8 games now, it would behoove Vogel to sit him for Gasol/Trezz. But it's not going to happen because Vogel clearly insists on playing them solely at the 5.

To Vogel it's either Trezz or Gasol, instead of trying to play them together.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 12:49 pm    Post subject:

Jordan-esque wrote:
I like Trezz.

My problem is Vogel insisting on playing Trezz at the 5, even to go as far as to sacrifice our height by playing a small front-court lineup of 6'7 Trezz at the 5, and 6'8 Morris at the 4, a lineup that has been hot garbage on both the offensive and defensive ends.

Last night, Trezz was getting destroyed in the 2nd quarter, not by Jokic, but by JaVale freaking McGee going 4-5 on the field for 8 easy points in a span of just 3 mins between 10:56 - 8:10 in that quarter.

With Morris struggling for 8 games now, it would behoove Vogel to sit him for Gasol/Trezz. But it's not going to happen because Vogel clearly insists on playing them solely at the 5.

To Vogel it's either Trezz or Gasol, instead of trying to play them together.


Could not have said it better. Play Trez with Gasol. They actually compliment each other.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 1:18 pm    Post subject:

You guys are correct in playing Trez/Gasol together. I think this is the best alternative (especially for Trez). I hate to see him put in a position where he can not succeed. Misplaying him ultimately cuts his balls off and negates the fact that he is such a hard worker when in the right frame of mind.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 1:21 pm    Post subject:

King Randle wrote:
Jordan-esque wrote:
I like Trezz.

My problem is Vogel insisting on playing Trezz at the 5, even to go as far as to sacrifice our height by playing a small front-court lineup of 6'7 Trezz at the 5, and 6'8 Morris at the 4, a lineup that has been hot garbage on both the offensive and defensive ends.

Last night, Trezz was getting destroyed in the 2nd quarter, not by Jokic, but by JaVale freaking McGee going 4-5 on the field for 8 easy points in a span of just 3 mins between 10:56 - 8:10 in that quarter.

With Morris struggling for 8 games now, it would behoove Vogel to sit him for Gasol/Trezz. But it's not going to happen because Vogel clearly insists on playing them solely at the 5.

To Vogel it's either Trezz or Gasol, instead of trying to play them together.


Could not have said it better. Play Trez with Gasol. They actually compliment each other.


You're not worried about perimeter defense and recovery against teams that have agile backup 4/5's ? I'm just saying maybe that's Vogel's concern.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 1:50 pm    Post subject:

ThePageDude wrote:
King Randle wrote:
Jordan-esque wrote:
I like Trezz.

My problem is Vogel insisting on playing Trezz at the 5, even to go as far as to sacrifice our height by playing a small front-court lineup of 6'7 Trezz at the 5, and 6'8 Morris at the 4, a lineup that has been hot garbage on both the offensive and defensive ends.

Last night, Trezz was getting destroyed in the 2nd quarter, not by Jokic, but by JaVale freaking McGee going 4-5 on the field for 8 easy points in a span of just 3 mins between 10:56 - 8:10 in that quarter.

With Morris struggling for 8 games now, it would behoove Vogel to sit him for Gasol/Trezz. But it's not going to happen because Vogel clearly insists on playing them solely at the 5.

To Vogel it's either Trezz or Gasol, instead of trying to play them together.


Could not have said it better. Play Trez with Gasol. They actually compliment each other.


You're not worried about perimeter defense and recovery against teams that have agile backup 4/5's ? I'm just saying maybe that's Vogel's concern.


No way Kief is that much better at perimeter defense than Trez.....IMO they're the same. But Trez gives you a lot more on the boards and offense...especially now where Kief can't buy a basket.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 2:03 pm    Post subject:

King Randle wrote:
ThePageDude wrote:
King Randle wrote:
Jordan-esque wrote:
I like Trezz.

My problem is Vogel insisting on playing Trezz at the 5, even to go as far as to sacrifice our height by playing a small front-court lineup of 6'7 Trezz at the 5, and 6'8 Morris at the 4, a lineup that has been hot garbage on both the offensive and defensive ends.

Last night, Trezz was getting destroyed in the 2nd quarter, not by Jokic, but by JaVale freaking McGee going 4-5 on the field for 8 easy points in a span of just 3 mins between 10:56 - 8:10 in that quarter.

With Morris struggling for 8 games now, it would behoove Vogel to sit him for Gasol/Trezz. But it's not going to happen because Vogel clearly insists on playing them solely at the 5.

To Vogel it's either Trezz or Gasol, instead of trying to play them together.


Could not have said it better. Play Trez with Gasol. They actually compliment each other.


You're not worried about perimeter defense and recovery against teams that have agile backup 4/5's ? I'm just saying maybe that's Vogel's concern.


No way Kief is that much better at perimeter defense than Trez.....IMO they're the same. But Trez gives you a lot more on the boards and offense...especially now where Kief can't buy a basket.


I get that but Vogel's playing Trezz + Kieff, and playing Trezz + Gasol would mean a choice between Kieff and Gasol.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 4:07 pm    Post subject:

ThePageDude wrote:
King Randle wrote:
ThePageDude wrote:
King Randle wrote:
Jordan-esque wrote:
I like Trezz.

My problem is Vogel insisting on playing Trezz at the 5, even to go as far as to sacrifice our height by playing a small front-court lineup of 6'7 Trezz at the 5, and 6'8 Morris at the 4, a lineup that has been hot garbage on both the offensive and defensive ends.

Last night, Trezz was getting destroyed in the 2nd quarter, not by Jokic, but by JaVale freaking McGee going 4-5 on the field for 8 easy points in a span of just 3 mins between 10:56 - 8:10 in that quarter.

With Morris struggling for 8 games now, it would behoove Vogel to sit him for Gasol/Trezz. But it's not going to happen because Vogel clearly insists on playing them solely at the 5.

To Vogel it's either Trezz or Gasol, instead of trying to play them together.


Could not have said it better. Play Trez with Gasol. They actually compliment each other.


You're not worried about perimeter defense and recovery against teams that have agile backup 4/5's ? I'm just saying maybe that's Vogel's concern.


No way Kief is that much better at perimeter defense than Trez.....IMO they're the same. But Trez gives you a lot more on the boards and offense...especially now where Kief can't buy a basket.


I get that but Vogel's playing Trezz + Kieff, and playing Trezz + Gasol would mean a choice between Kieff and Gasol.


Kieff is a major liability of late, but he does deserve minutes in the right matchup. All four of Drummond, kieff, Gasol, Trezz should be used as utility players who will play based on the matchups.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 4:40 pm    Post subject:

vcdplaya3002 wrote:

<snip>

Kieff is a major liability of late, but he does deserve minutes in the right matchup. All four of Drummond, kieff, Gasol, Trezz should be used as utility players who will play based on the matchups.


Yup, agreed.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 4:45 pm    Post subject:

Kief isn't a utility player right now. Whatever Kief does, Gasol does better.

Play Harrell at the backup 4 and Gasol at the backup 5.
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 6:33 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Kief isn't a utility player right now. Whatever Kief does, Gasol does better.

Play Harrell at the backup 4 and Gasol at the backup 5.


Absolutely correct.
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 7:08 am    Post subject:

King Randle wrote:
MJST wrote:
Kief isn't a utility player right now. Whatever Kief does, Gasol does better.

Play Harrell at the backup 4 and Gasol at the backup 5.


Absolutely correct.


I agree that Gasol at 5 is better than Trezz. That's not the question; the question is whether Trezz on defense at the 4 is better, same or worse than Kieff. We have not seen him defend the 4 at all. Defending the 4 requires agility, recovery, use of length and quick read of the opponents' actions. What if Trezz is just as bad, or worse, as he is defending the 5? He's being hunted at the 5, what if he gets hunted just as mercilessly at the 4? I'm just asking the question, I really don't know the answer.
I presume the coaching staff sees these guys day in and day out and has deep insight into these guys' capabilities.
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 7:39 am    Post subject:

ThePageDude wrote:
King Randle wrote:
MJST wrote:
Kief isn't a utility player right now. Whatever Kief does, Gasol does better.

Play Harrell at the backup 4 and Gasol at the backup 5.


Absolutely correct.


I agree that Gasol at 5 is better than Trezz. That's not the question; the question is whether Trezz on defense at the 4 is better, same or worse than Kieff. We have not seen him defend the 4 at all. Defending the 4 requires agility, recovery, use of length and quick read of the opponents' actions. What if Trezz is just as bad, or worse, as he is defending the 5? He's being hunted at the 5, what if he gets hunted just as mercilessly at the 4? I'm just asking the question, I really don't know the answer.
I presume the coaching staff sees these guys day in and day out and has deep insight into these guys' capabilities.


Actually we have seen it early in the year. A few time we saw the front line of AD, Trez and Bron....I'm not sure if AD or Trez was guarding the 5. Trez can be any worse than Kief guarding the 4...Kief usually plays the 4 to stretch the position on offense. But Gasol can do that hence it would make sense that Trez at least get a shot at playing along side him.
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 9:51 am    Post subject:

King Randle wrote:

<snip>
Trez can be any worse than Kief guarding the 4.. <snip>


OK so this is news to me. Sure the Trezz + Morris lineup is horrible at defense, but how do we know that that's not just because of Trezz?
Between the two, Trezz has a rep as being subpar defensively, but as far as I know Morris doesn't carry that rep, if you've seen any commentary that effect I'm interested in looking it up.
Also, Morris played major minutes for us last year and did OK defensively, especially in the playoffs, so we have seen that he has held his own, at least along-sides AD.
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 6:22 pm    Post subject:

ThePageDude wrote:
King Randle wrote:

<snip>
Trez can be any worse than Kief guarding the 4.. <snip>


OK so this is news to me. Sure the Trezz + Morris lineup is horrible at defense, but how do we know that that's not just because of Trezz?
Between the two, Trezz has a rep as being subpar defensively, but as far as I know Morris doesn't carry that rep, if you've seen any commentary that effect I'm interested in looking it up.
Also, Morris played major minutes for us last year and did OK defensively, especially in the playoffs, so we have seen that he has held his own, at least along-sides AD.


Kieff is very mediocre defensively. He's not awful but def. nothing that warrants getting minutes if he's not providing offense. That was more so AD going into super mode and just beasting all over the floor last year then Kieff doing anything special imo. I remember getting very frustrated with him on that end all last year and this season. He has his moments but is not someone that brings defense consistently at all.
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 7:49 am    Post subject:

hype wrote:
ThePageDude wrote:
King Randle wrote:

<snip>
Trez can be any worse than Kief guarding the 4.. <snip>


OK so this is news to me. Sure the Trezz + Morris lineup is horrible at defense, but how do we know that that's not just because of Trezz?
Between the two, Trezz has a rep as being subpar defensively, but as far as I know Morris doesn't carry that rep, if you've seen any commentary that effect I'm interested in looking it up.
Also, Morris played major minutes for us last year and did OK defensively, especially in the playoffs, so we have seen that he has held his own, at least along-sides AD.


Kieff is very mediocre defensively. He's not awful on def but nothing that warrants getting minutes if he's not providing offense. That was more so AD going into super mode and just beasting all over the floor last year then Kieff doing anything special imo. I remember getting very frustrated with him on that end all last year and this season. He has his moments but is not someone that brings defense consistently at all.


First thing that comes to mind is Game 5 vs Miami. AD would take on Butler, so Kieff was on Adebayo in 2nd half and he got burnt easily for dunks. Then in the final minute Butler would go hunting for Kieff on switches and Kieff blew 2 defensive stances which ended up in an uncontested jumper in the paint and then an open lane for a layup that literally cost the game on that end.
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 8:13 am    Post subject:

Nash Vegas wrote:

<snip>
First thing that comes to mind is Game 5 vs Miami. AD would take on Butler, so Kieff was on Adebayo in 2nd half and he got burnt easily for dunks. Then in the final minute Butler would go hunting for Kieff on switches and Kieff blew 2 defensive stances which ended up in an uncontested jumper in the paint and then an open lane for a layup that literally cost the game on that end.


The tradeoff is one between Trezz and Kieff - since everyone is agreeing Gasol should bebetter at 5 than Trezz. So the question is not whether Kieff is a good defender, it's whether Trezz a better defender at 4 than Kieff? Or is he about the same? Or worse? How much better or worse?
As I said before I don't really know. Kieff has played all of 277 minutes with AD this season, and it's not clear who was playing the 4 on defense when the two were on the floor together.
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 9:52 am    Post subject:

Here's the thing. Trezz worked fine with Kuzma. So Trezz at backup 5 osn't a huge problem at all. In fact he's played very well for us there!

However, he and Kieff just do not work... they don't. And Vogel does Trezz no favors by constantly trotting it out there.
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 10:10 am    Post subject:

ThePageDude wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:

<snip>
First thing that comes to mind is Game 5 vs Miami. AD would take on Butler, so Kieff was on Adebayo in 2nd half and he got burnt easily for dunks. Then in the final minute Butler would go hunting for Kieff on switches and Kieff blew 2 defensive stances which ended up in an uncontested jumper in the paint and then an open lane for a layup that literally cost the game on that end.


The tradeoff is one between Trezz and Kieff - since everyone is agreeing Gasol should bebetter at 5 than Trezz. So the question is not whether Kieff is a good defender, it's whether Trezz a better defender at 4 than Kieff? Or is he about the same? Or worse? How much better or worse?

As I said before I don't really know. Kieff has played all of 277 minutes with AD this season, and it's not clear who was playing the 4 on defense when the two were on the floor together.


That's easy. Vogel NEVER plays Trez at the 4. Even with AD, he still has Trez guarding the 5. So yeah we'll never really know how Trez defends the 4 because Vogel plays him at the 5 all the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0MtHFfhhFs

With AD on the floor, Trez is still playing the 5 on defense guarding WCS and Powell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGaj6jFB5rg

Trez still guarding Mo Bamba.
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 11:46 am    Post subject:

Two points.

1. Nash Vegas is correct. Trezz has always played the 5.
2. Morris has started 26 games at PF this year for us. He can do average job to handle almost all PF 's.

I have talked about this earlier. Do you think our coaches haven't look how Trezz guard Kuz, Morris and Phonzo @ PF in practice?
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 11:54 am    Post subject:

lakerican wrote:
Two points.

1. Nash Vegas is correct. Trezz has always played the 5.
2. Morris has started 26 games at PF this year for us. He can do average job to handle almost all PF 's.

I have talked about this earlier. Do you think our coaches haven't look how Trezz guard Kuz, Morris and Phonzo @ PF in practice?


Not sure, as there haven't been many practices.
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 8:47 pm    Post subject:

Nash Vegas wrote:
ThePageDude wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:

<snip>
First thing that comes to mind is Game 5 vs Miami. AD would take on Butler, so Kieff was on Adebayo in 2nd half and he got burnt easily for dunks. Then in the final minute Butler would go hunting for Kieff on switches and Kieff blew 2 defensive stances which ended up in an uncontested jumper in the paint and then an open lane for a layup that literally cost the game on that end.


The tradeoff is one between Trezz and Kieff - since everyone is agreeing Gasol should bebetter at 5 than Trezz. So the question is not whether Kieff is a good defender, it's whether Trezz a better defender at 4 than Kieff? Or is he about the same? Or worse? How much better or worse?

I noticed that too, and it sucks.
As I said before I don't really know. Kieff has played all of 277 minutes with AD this season, and it's not clear who was playing the 4 on defense when the two were on the floor together.


That's easy. Vogel NEVER plays Trez at the 4. Even with AD, he still has Trez guarding the 5. So yeah we'll never really know how Trez defends the 4 because Vogel plays him at the 5 all the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0MtHFfhhFs

With AD on the floor, Trez is still playing the 5 on defense guarding WCS and Powell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGaj6jFB5rg

Trez still guarding Mo Bamba.
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 8:49 pm    Post subject:

Nash Vegas wrote:
ThePageDude wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:

<snip>
First thing that comes to mind is Game 5 vs Miami. AD would take on Butler, so Kieff was on Adebayo in 2nd half and he got burnt easily for dunks. Then in the final minute Butler would go hunting for Kieff on switches and Kieff blew 2 defensive stances which ended up in an uncontested jumper in the paint and then an open lane for a layup that literally cost the game on that end.


The tradeoff is one between Trezz and Kieff - since everyone is agreeing Gasol should bebetter at 5 than Trezz. So the question is not whether Kieff is a good defender, it's whether Trezz a better defender at 4 than Kieff? Or is he about the same? Or worse? How much better or worse?

I noticed that too, and it sucks.
As I said before I don't really know. Kieff has played all of 277 minutes with AD this season, and it's not clear who was playing the 4 on defense when the two were on the floor together.


That's easy. Vogel NEVER plays Trez at the 4. Even with AD, he still has Trez guarding the 5. So yeah we'll never really know how Trez defends the 4 because Vogel plays him at the 5 all the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0MtHFfhhFs

With AD on the floor, Trez is still playing the 5 on defense guarding WCS and Powell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGaj6jFB5rg

Trez still guarding Mo Bamba.


I notice that too, but at least AD can help. But still Harrell @ C is still a disadvantage.
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 8:56 pm    Post subject:

Trez not coming back next season would be a good thing for the Lakers.
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 8:58 pm    Post subject:

Was not happy about the signing when it happened. But chose to remain optimistic. I'll try to keep doing that cuz what other choice do we have?
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