Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 8288 Location: Santa Monica
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:21 pm Post subject: Win or lose, we need a legit 3rd scorer
LeBron's ankle injury will probably fully heal this summer, but it's a reminder to us that he's 36 and not getting any younger. Maybe he'll still have 1-2 more elite years left in him, but we have to reduce his workload during the regular season and early in games.
Plus, in today's NBA, a 3rd scorer is needed to win it all. When the average team scores over 110 a game, two legit scorers, even if they're both superstars, isn't really enough.
That's why some of us loved the DS acquisition. Even though he had such a terrible game 5, I don't know how we can say it didn't work out. He played so well, both in terms of scoring and passing, when LeBron was out, and probably helped us win a few games that we would've otherwise lost.
DS isn't an All-Star level guard, but he's a good one, and I like his toughness.
If he doesn't want to re-sign with us, we need another legit 3rd scorer at guard who can also handle the ball and ideally get others involved. But obviously we'll lack assets we can move to get such a player, unless we get lucky again, like we did with DS.
I don't like the idea of signing Kyle Lowry. He's old, and if we're concerned about LeBron (and AD) getting hurt, let's forget about signing guys who aren't in their 20s or at least their early 30s. We don't have a good track record of bringing in old stars (see Karl Malone and Steve Nash).
I really hope THT would be ready to be that guy next year, but it seems much more likely that he's 2 or even 3 years away from that.
In retrospect, the Lakers hurt themselves in regards to this by letting draft prospects like Thomas Bryant and Julius Randle leave for nothing. Reminds me a little of the early 2000s when we passed up on drafting Kirilenko, Michael Redd and others, which left our team extremely thin and bereft of assets starting in 2002. _________________ Lakers 49ers Chargers Dodgers
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35750 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:47 pm Post subject:
The irony is that we supposedly had five guys who could plausibly have been the #3— Schroeder, KCP, Harrell, Kuzma, and Drummond. None of them panned out. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
Randle and Bryant wouldn't have been on the team because the roster was stripped down to the foundation to create cap space for Kawhi.
The only way the Lakers can get a third scorer is developing a young one in house - a long shot given where the Lakers draft, not to mention time consuming when LeBron's window is likely 1-2 more seasons - or signing ring chasing aging veterans on discounts. Kyle Lowry has won a ring and will get significantly better offers from teams like the Knicks and Heat, so you don't have to worry about him, but the fastest way to acquire that third scorer involves gambling on an old fading star's health for 1-2 seasons.
But maybe they'll draft the next Tony Parker with the #22 pick. _________________ Under New Management
The irony is that we supposedly had five guys who could plausibly have been the #3— Schroeder, KCP, Harrell, Kuzma, and Drummond. None of them panned out.
I think Harrell plays strong and scores pretty consistently.
The rest are just horribly inconsistent, whether it's because of injuries and/or constant juggling of the lineup...or whether they are just individually unable to bring it every game.
Randle and Bryant wouldn't have been on the team because the roster was stripped down to the foundation to create cap space for Kawhi.
The only way the Lakers can get a third scorer is developing a young one in house - a long shot given where the Lakers draft, not to mention time consuming when LeBron's window is likely 1-2 more seasons - or signing ring chasing aging veterans on discounts. Kyle Lowry has won a ring and will get significantly better offers from teams like the Knicks and Heat, so you don't have to worry about him, but the fastest way to acquire that third scorer involves gambling on an old fading star's health for 1-2 seasons.
But maybe they'll draft the next Tony Parker with the #22 pick.
Will the Lakers even keep that pick or trade it away is the bigger question.
They had the opportunity this past season to add a PG. Players like Flynn, Maledon or even Jones were available. They used it to get Schroder.
Likely to be deja vu all over again! Doubt the Lakers are willing to develop a PG when the clock is ticking on the James era. Too bad, drafting a G like Butler (Baylor) has a nice upside to it just no patience.
Randle and Bryant wouldn't have been on the team because the roster was stripped down to the foundation to create cap space for Kawhi.
The only way the Lakers can get a third scorer is developing a young one in house - a long shot given where the Lakers draft, not to mention time consuming when LeBron's window is likely 1-2 more seasons - or signing ring chasing aging veterans on discounts. Kyle Lowry has won a ring and will get significantly better offers from teams like the Knicks and Heat, so you don't have to worry about him, but the fastest way to acquire that third scorer involves gambling on an old fading star's health for 1-2 seasons.
But maybe they'll draft the next Tony Parker with the #22 pick.
I'd rather just go all in on shooters (complete overhaul of the supporting cast outside of KCP, Caruso, THT), defensive ability be damned, and bank on Vogel's defensive acumen (+ healthy AD) coming through and molding together a solid defense. If your offense is going to be just giving the ball to your two stars and letting them go to work, then at least try to put pieces around them which cater to that style. None of this two big men nonsense, and having 4-5 guys behind AD on the roster who play the same position.
Like you said, there's no way we add a legit third scorer with the pieces we have. We have very little in the way of above average prospects to develop, and our immediate draft capital is embarrassingly low. They've backed themselves in a corner, but at least stop being stubborn (or stupid?) and catch up to the NBA in terms of roster construction and offensive playing style.
Randle and Bryant wouldn't have been on the team because the roster was stripped down to the foundation to create cap space for Kawhi.
The only way the Lakers can get a third scorer is developing a young one in house - a long shot given where the Lakers draft, not to mention time consuming when LeBron's window is likely 1-2 more seasons - or signing ring chasing aging veterans on discounts. Kyle Lowry has won a ring and will get significantly better offers from teams like the Knicks and Heat, so you don't have to worry about him, but the fastest way to acquire that third scorer involves gambling on an old fading star's health for 1-2 seasons.
But maybe they'll draft the next Tony Parker with the #22 pick.
Will the Lakers even keep that pick or trade it away is the bigger question.
They had the opportunity this past season to add a PG. Players like Flynn, Maledon or even Jones were available. They used it to get Schroder.
Likely to be deja vu all over again! Doubt the Lakers are willing to develop a PG when the clock is ticking on the James era. Too bad, drafting a G like Butler (Baylor) has a nice upside to it just no patience.
None of those guys would've gotten burn this season, but maybe one of them breaks out in their sophomore seasons (which would have been nice for next year and beyond).
They need to find some kind of cheaper production because all the young guys still on the team are up for paydays and Jeanie might not want to go that far into the luxury tax for a team that looks like it'll be bumped in the first round even given the context of injuries.
The #22 pick makes it more interesting, though. You're right on the end of the range where you could catch a lottery caliber talent who falls on draft night like OG Anunoby a few years back. _________________ Under New Management
Randle and Bryant wouldn't have been on the team because the roster was stripped down to the foundation to create cap space for Kawhi.
The only way the Lakers can get a third scorer is developing a young one in house - a long shot given where the Lakers draft, not to mention time consuming when LeBron's window is likely 1-2 more seasons - or signing ring chasing aging veterans on discounts. Kyle Lowry has won a ring and will get significantly better offers from teams like the Knicks and Heat, so you don't have to worry about him, but the fastest way to acquire that third scorer involves gambling on an old fading star's health for 1-2 seasons.
But maybe they'll draft the next Tony Parker with the #22 pick.
I'd rather just go all in on shooters (complete overhaul of the supporting cast outside of KCP, Caruso, THT), defensive ability be damned, and bank on Vogel's defensive acumen (+ healthy AD) coming through and molding together a solid defense. If your offense is going to be just giving the ball to your two stars and letting them go to work, then at least try to put pieces around them which cater to that style. None of this two big men nonsense, and having 4-5 guys behind AD on the roster who play the same position.
Like you said, there's no way we add a legit third scorer with the pieces we have. We have very little in the way of above average prospects to develop, and our immediate draft capital is embarrassingly low. They've backed themselves in a corner, but at least stop being stubborn (or stupid?) and catch up to the NBA in terms of roster construction and offensive playing style.
I'm leaning that way, too. A guy like Lillard is going to light up the best defenses, so what if he does it a little bit more easily against Seth Curry than Schröder? _________________ Under New Management
Joined: 10 Jul 2009 Posts: 12111 Location: Bay Area
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:48 pm Post subject:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
TheBlackMamba wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Randle and Bryant wouldn't have been on the team because the roster was stripped down to the foundation to create cap space for Kawhi.
The only way the Lakers can get a third scorer is developing a young one in house - a long shot given where the Lakers draft, not to mention time consuming when LeBron's window is likely 1-2 more seasons - or signing ring chasing aging veterans on discounts. Kyle Lowry has won a ring and will get significantly better offers from teams like the Knicks and Heat, so you don't have to worry about him, but the fastest way to acquire that third scorer involves gambling on an old fading star's health for 1-2 seasons.
But maybe they'll draft the next Tony Parker with the #22 pick.
I'd rather just go all in on shooters (complete overhaul of the supporting cast outside of KCP, Caruso, THT), defensive ability be damned, and bank on Vogel's defensive acumen (+ healthy AD) coming through and molding together a solid defense. If your offense is going to be just giving the ball to your two stars and letting them go to work, then at least try to put pieces around them which cater to that style. None of this two big men nonsense, and having 4-5 guys behind AD on the roster who play the same position.
Like you said, there's no way we add a legit third scorer with the pieces we have. We have very little in the way of above average prospects to develop, and our immediate draft capital is embarrassingly low. They've backed themselves in a corner, but at least stop being stubborn (or stupid?) and catch up to the NBA in terms of roster construction and offensive playing style.
I'm leaning that way, too. A guy like Lillard is going to light up the best defenses, so what if he does it a little bit more easily against Seth Curry than Schröder?
I wanted him bad after his first stint in Dallas, right when he got hurt. Can't believe we missed out on such an obvious sign.
Sign one of Mills, Conley or Derozan, and fill out the rest of the team with ring chasing vets + Drummond and Caruso
the whole ring chasing vets wont work. we need young shot makers and perimeter defenders. we know going forward bron/ad will miss games. DS did good, but we need a little better.
Randle and Bryant wouldn't have been on the team because the roster was stripped down to the foundation to create cap space for Kawhi.
The only way the Lakers can get a third scorer is developing a young one in house - a long shot given where the Lakers draft, not to mention time consuming when LeBron's window is likely 1-2 more seasons - or signing ring chasing aging veterans on discounts. Kyle Lowry has won a ring and will get significantly better offers from teams like the Knicks and Heat, so you don't have to worry about him, but the fastest way to acquire that third scorer involves gambling on an old fading star's health for 1-2 seasons.
But maybe they'll draft the next Tony Parker with the #22 pick.
I'd rather just go all in on shooters (complete overhaul of the supporting cast outside of KCP, Caruso, THT), defensive ability be damned, and bank on Vogel's defensive acumen (+ healthy AD) coming through and molding together a solid defense. If your offense is going to be just giving the ball to your two stars and letting them go to work, then at least try to put pieces around them which cater to that style. None of this two big men nonsense, and having 4-5 guys behind AD on the roster who play the same position.
Like you said, there's no way we add a legit third scorer with the pieces we have. We have very little in the way of above average prospects to develop, and our immediate draft capital is embarrassingly low. They've backed themselves in a corner, but at least stop being stubborn (or stupid?) and catch up to the NBA in terms of roster construction and offensive playing style.
I'm leaning that way, too. A guy like Lillard is going to light up the best defenses, so what if he does it a little bit more easily against Seth Curry than Schröder?
I wanted him bad after his first stint in Dallas, right when he got hurt. Can't believe we missed out on such an obvious sign.
Seth Curry is the epitome of a "PG" who has succeeded next to Lebron throughout his career. Sometimes I wonder if Rob has studied or even looked up on Wikipedia any of Lebron's previous team rosters (I'm completely joking...sort of).
Sign one of Mills, Conley or Derozan, and fill out the rest of the team with ring chasing vets + Drummond and Caruso
Or go balls deep and sign Conley + Timmy Hardaway, Drummond, and Caruso and rule the league until LBJ retires
Just curious, do you still have faith Drummond can work on this roster, next to AD? He's done nothing but make my eyes bleed in his 20 or so games as a Laker, and he's arguably taken Laker basketball back 20 years (one for each game he played)...again I'm completely joking, sort of...
Joined: 10 Jul 2009 Posts: 12111 Location: Bay Area
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:55 pm Post subject:
Halflife wrote:
Cutheon wrote:
Sign one of Mills, Conley or Derozan, and fill out the rest of the team with ring chasing vets + Drummond and Caruso
the whole ring chasing vets wont work. we need young shot makers and perimeter defenders. we know going forward bron/ad will miss games. DS did good, but we need a little better.
Why do we know that? LeBron got hurt on a freak play and AD's body broke because he plays hard on defense and didn't get a proper offseason after playing injured through the Finals.
A merry band of minimums works just fine around a core of healthy LBJ/AD + Mills/Conley/Derozan, and role players like Caruso, KCP, Drummond, Kuzma, Harrell, and I think Gasol (if i remember his contract right)
Joined: 10 Jul 2009 Posts: 12111 Location: Bay Area
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:07 pm Post subject:
TheBlackMamba wrote:
Cutheon wrote:
Cutheon wrote:
Sign one of Mills, Conley or Derozan, and fill out the rest of the team with ring chasing vets + Drummond and Caruso
Or go balls deep and sign Conley + Timmy Hardaway, Drummond, and Caruso and rule the league until LBJ retires
Just curious, do you still have faith Drummond can work on this roster, next to AD? He's done nothing but make my eyes bleed in his 20 or so games as a Laker, and he's arguably taken Laker basketball back 20 years (one for each game he played)...again I'm completely joking, sort of...
I'm not a huge fan of his, but I think the Lakers will likely sign him, so I assumed he's part of the rotation.
To answer your question more specifically, I think he's serviceable. I watched a lot of Pistons games when he was their centerpiece and I was very aware of Drummond's flaws. That said, I think his floor is right around where most centers that will play with AD. It's not a position where we can have our cake and eat it too - there are only a handful of centers with real talent in this league, and none of them want to play second fiddle to AD for pennies. So given the talent pool realistically available to us, yeah, I think Drummond's fine.
Where I'm intrigued is Drummond's ceiling. THAT is a lot higher than what most centers can offer us - again, considering the talent pool. He gobbles up extra possessions, soaks up minutes/contact, sets great screens, rolls hard, and occupies the defense. Defensively, he has active and productive hands, and moves his feet well enough to stretch out possessions and allow guards to recover. No, he doesn't provide much spacing. And, yeah, sometimes he gets ahead of himself and throws a couple possessions away wildin' out. But I'm not concerned with that as much as some people, because he tends to make up for it.
Anyway, with LBJ/AD and Vogel, like it or not, we're a defensive team. And a damn good one. PHX had their ass handed to them for games 1-3 on offense, even though they won game 1. Phx is a good ass offensive team, and we pretty much kicked their (bleep) in. Most years, we win with a squad like this one. Maybe not this year, due to health, but that's really it. Guys like Drummond work on a team like ours. They make the game a bit ugly, but that's fine, because no team is better than us at winning an ugly basketball game.
Where we need beauty is from the guard play. That's largely been turdtacular. Hence Mills, Conley, THJ, etc - guys like that. Let them provide spacing and pretty play - which, by the way, costs money. In a way, it's strictly economics - Drummond works because he does what a cheap player can do, cheaply.
Sign one of Mills, Conley or Derozan, and fill out the rest of the team with ring chasing vets + Drummond and Caruso
the whole ring chasing vets wont work. we need young shot makers and perimeter defenders. we know going forward bron/ad will miss games. DS did good, but we need a little better.
Why do we know that? LeBron got hurt on a freak play and AD's body broke because he plays hard on defense and didn't get a proper offseason after playing injured through the Finals.
A merry band of minimums works just fine around a core of healthy LBJ/AD + Mills/Conley/Derozan, and role players like Caruso, KCP, Drummond, Kuzma, Harrell, and I think Gasol (if i remember his contract right)
because age. wear and tear. even if hes 100% healthy , which no one ever is we want him to shut it down. the reason we flourished last year is because of the huge rest and lack of travel.
AD gets dinged. thats his story plus he doesnt power through injury which is fine.
Conley is not what he was and is good with limited minutes, derozen is fine Mills sure, why not.
But ring chasers are usually washed a bit. this league has a lot of young talented teams. we need to mesh young with our vets. not old with our old.
Joined: 10 Jul 2009 Posts: 12111 Location: Bay Area
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:12 pm Post subject:
Halflife wrote:
Cutheon wrote:
Halflife wrote:
Cutheon wrote:
Sign one of Mills, Conley or Derozan, and fill out the rest of the team with ring chasing vets + Drummond and Caruso
the whole ring chasing vets wont work. we need young shot makers and perimeter defenders. we know going forward bron/ad will miss games. DS did good, but we need a little better.
Why do we know that? LeBron got hurt on a freak play and AD's body broke because he plays hard on defense and didn't get a proper offseason after playing injured through the Finals.
A merry band of minimums works just fine around a core of healthy LBJ/AD + Mills/Conley/Derozan, and role players like Caruso, KCP, Drummond, Kuzma, Harrell, and I think Gasol (if i remember his contract right)
because age. wear and tear. even if hes 100% healthy , which no one ever is we want him to shut it down. the reason we flourished last year is because of the huge rest and lack of travel.
AD gets dinged. thats his story plus he doesnt power through injury which is fine.
Conley is not what he was and is good with limited minutes, derozen is fine Mills sure, why not.
But ring chasers are usually washed a bit. this league has a lot of young talented teams. we need to mesh young with our vets. not old with our old.
With what money and/or assets? All the good young players are under contract. The ones that aren't usually aren't for a reason, and we don't have time to hope we can turn them around.
FWIW, I'd bet a lot that we could run this entire team back and run the table next year. I don't think it's as broken as many claim. Put differently, this roster was and remains championship-quality. It broke purely because AD/LBJ broke, like any roster, with any number of young, talented shooters, would.
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29150 Location: La La Land
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:17 pm Post subject:
Westbrook would make Anthony Davis look like the greatest big man of all time. Every big man WB plays with eats. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Last edited by kikanga on Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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