"We Gave Away A Decade Worth of Talent for AD"
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mad55557777
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:09 am    Post subject:

We traded for AD and ring 17 because we are allowed to look back now.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:10 am    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:

<snip>
If you want to have your own opinion that one title is worth it... that is your right... but calling those of us who wanted to sign another elite or wait one year for AD stupid... is another thing.
<snip>


I've never done that, maybe others have, but I understand you're just as frustrated as I am brother, so no hard feelings.
Yes I do have a difference of opinion, I think it's a lot, lot tougher to put a dynasty together in this current era. Not impossible, but tougher.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:12 am    Post subject:

think of all of the teams just good enough not to win a ring. IMO i never see the pelicans winning. As dope as BI is IMO he isnt booker, Ja, Tatum, Spida, Luka.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:13 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
I don’t regret it due to the ring. But it was always a risky move.

Relying on an aging James always had a “all in” short window feel to it. It worked.

Now it becomes a game of annual re- shuffling and hoping the team can capture lightning in a bottle just one more time before it all comes tumbling down.

I may be in the minority, but I just really don’t “like” this team. I appreciate #17 and occasional moments but overall I miss rooting for the players just as much as I root for the team.

I really dislike some of the players and personalities on this and last years teams. Maybe next year will be different.


I LOVED last years team and would have loved this one had I been able to see them together healthy.

Since the advent of salary cap (84-85), re-shuffling has always been necessary.

Once James Worthy & Byron Scott came off of their (pre-cap) rookie deals, the Lakers shuffled the deck around Magic.

The Shaq-Kobe Lakers had 3 different starting PGs and 3 different starting PFs, along with 3 different back up Cs during the 3-peat.

The Pau-Kobe Lakers had three different starting SFs in 3 Finals trips and always made changes on the edges.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:15 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Just ask yourself one thing if you are a Laker fan.

We all remember Kobe. I mean who could not. Loved him. Hated him at times. Frustrated at him. The joy of his heroics. Marvel. All of that. He is the legend.

Think about if we had not traded for AD, and mamba passes, if the Lakers could have won the title that year in dedication to him. The team was in a perfect position to make it about that, because they had traded for AD. Who then carried the team on his back. I mean, that is what Lakers legacy is all about. We are not the Thunder, Sixers. or even Spurs. We never ever have built from the draft alone. We have always built via trade, FA and draft.

I get it, some are still hurt we traded away so many young draft picks that had become beloved. But what the move accomplished last year was epic. It goes beyond just winning a title. The Lakers won 16 already before that. It was about Kobe. It was about becoming respectable again (dude we had become the laughing stock of the league and media).

Maybe most overlooked in it all. One day in the future. Perhaps a talent like Steph Curry, or another perennial MVP guy like Luka Doncic will be a FA. And we may have the capspace. He will look at how we delivered a ring with Lebron, as any way possible, once he committed to us. How many franchises do that - win every single time they have a HOF still at all-star superstar level, sign with them. That is what the Lakers do. Every single time.

FAs had become accustomed to revolt against the Lakers. The things have changed so much. You will see the benefits of all this, not only with the ring. But after Bron leaves, and the next big time FA is looking around.

(bleep), I am just happy we did it in dedication to Kobe. That alone was enough. But if if was not, look at all the other factors.


The team that won a championship for the legacy of Kobe got decimated after winning a ring. So it's hard for me to put a lot of faith in the decisions made by the FO. Kobe was happy and then started to roll in his grave.

But I think you are looking at this franchise as if they are the franchise of old under Jerry buss. Players don't really care about the legacy of this franchise, enough for them to wanna join. Times have changed. They are not gonna look at how they delivered Bron a championship. The players don't even respect that championship. Then you look at the next year when they got rid of a lot the players that brought the franchise a championship. That's not a good look.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:16 am    Post subject:

Halflife wrote:
think of all of the teams just good enough not to win a ring. IMO i never see the pelicans winning. As dope as BI is IMO he isnt booker, Ja, Tatum, Spida, Luka.


And none of those guys have won a ring (yet), either.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:17 am    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:

<snip>
I LOVED last years team and would have loved this one had I been able to see them together healthy.

<snip>


Me too, You know what I really loved about last year's team beyond the winning? They were HAPPY playing together and showed it on the court. Humble, but believed in themselves and their teammates. No flexing after dunks, no clowning the other team like the Clippers did. (Well OK, Howard was a bit of a loose cannon).
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:17 am    Post subject:

danzag wrote:
I would do it again.
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mad55557777
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:19 am    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
Halflife wrote:
think of all of the teams just good enough not to win a ring. IMO i never see the pelicans winning. As dope as BI is IMO he isnt booker, Ja, Tatum, Spida, Luka.


And none of those guys have won a ring (yet), either.

Maybe Mitchell beingg the closest to a ring, and I don’t think he will win it this year
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:20 am    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
Halflife wrote:
think of all of the teams just good enough not to win a ring. IMO i never see the pelicans winning. As dope as BI is IMO he isnt booker, Ja, Tatum, Spida, Luka.


And none of those guys have won a ring (yet), either.

Thats the point, so to say we gave up anything is silly. The only option is rings. We got one and because of AD's style and age he isnt hard to build around. AD is better than all of those guys.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:20 am    Post subject:

The Davis trade was an absolute steal back then and it still is now.

Fans of teams like the Knicks and Pelicans would gladly trade places.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:21 am    Post subject:

ThePageDude wrote:
BILBJH wrote:

<snip>
If you want to have your own opinion that one title is worth it... that is your right... but calling those of us who wanted to sign another elite or wait one year for AD stupid... is another thing.
<snip>


I've never done that, maybe others have, but I understand you're just as frustrated as I am brother, so no hard feelings.
Yes I do have a difference of opinion, I think it's a lot, lot tougher to put a dynasty together in this current era. Not impossible, but tougher.


I get the argument that it is difficult... but we had the perfect storm of events that allowed us to draft Randle at 7... then DLO, BI, Lonzo... then acquire #4... then make amazing lower picks like Clarkson, Zubac, Nance, Kuzma, THT

We were in that unique, once in a lifetime position that you are describing.

Maybe the young talent wasn't quite as good as Steph and Klay... but we had two max slots plus the best of the young core to choose from... plus #4... a bunch of cost controlled assets and all of our picks.

People keep saying we couldn't keep them all. I FREAKING KNOW THIS.

I've never claimed we could keep all of them... even keeping half would have been better than begging that b*tch Schroder to play for 84 million.

I never cared about saving all the young talent... I just wanted to keep the best of them. Yet people keep conflating the issue and saying the kids would do no better. Of course they wouldn't... but they were supposed to be combined with LBJ AND another FREE elite.

AD is special... but had we signed Jimmy Butler for example and added him to the best of the young talent and kept all of our draft picks... to me that would have had an equal chance to win a title... and kept the team more sustainable for the next decade.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:21 am    Post subject:

Halflife wrote:
think of all of the teams just good enough not to win a ring. IMO i never see the pelicans winning. As dope as BI is IMO he isnt booker, Ja, Tatum, Spida, Luka.


I mean news flash - The Pelicans weren't gonna win a championship with AD there, so I don't understand that point. Teams need talent, that coincide with their corner piece. The suns just started to be good with booker on the team.

Why do y'all always feel we build the team around Brandon Ingram when he would just be added to the talent to help Lakers have sustainable success. When Brandon was here, we had Bron. At the time we traded BI away, kuz's stock was high. We just got so desperate that we didn't even negotiate, as they said and said here is who we are gonna give you and the Pelicans said deal. We traded away a boatload for a very talented, soft injury prone player that can't stay on the court. I would have loved to have BI over KUZ, but we didn't even negotiate.


Last edited by Outspoken on Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:22 am    Post subject:

mad55557777 wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
Halflife wrote:
think of all of the teams just good enough not to win a ring. IMO i never see the pelicans winning. As dope as BI is IMO he isnt booker, Ja, Tatum, Spida, Luka.


And none of those guys have won a ring (yet), either.

Maybe Mitchell beingg the closest to a ring, and I don’t think he will win it this year


The reason I brought those guys up is because we didnt trade anyone like them. As great as BI may be he isnt on that list.
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LakersMD
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:22 am    Post subject:

Mods, please merge this thread with the one from May 17 titled

What if Ingram, Randle, Zubac, Dlo Russell, Hart, Nance and Clarkson were still Lakers?


Last edited by LakersMD on Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:23 am    Post subject:

Outspoken wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Just ask yourself one thing if you are a Laker fan.

We all remember Kobe. I mean who could not. Loved him. Hated him at times. Frustrated at him. The joy of his heroics. Marvel. All of that. He is the legend.

Think about if we had not traded for AD, and mamba passes, if the Lakers could have won the title that year in dedication to him. The team was in a perfect position to make it about that, because they had traded for AD. Who then carried the team on his back. I mean, that is what Lakers legacy is all about. We are not the Thunder, Sixers. or even Spurs. We never ever have built from the draft alone. We have always built via trade, FA and draft.

I get it, some are still hurt we traded away so many young draft picks that had become beloved. But what the move accomplished last year was epic. It goes beyond just winning a title. The Lakers won 16 already before that. It was about Kobe. It was about becoming respectable again (dude we had become the laughing stock of the league and media).

Maybe most overlooked in it all. One day in the future. Perhaps a talent like Steph Curry, or another perennial MVP guy like Luka Doncic will be a FA. And we may have the capspace. He will look at how we delivered a ring with Lebron, as any way possible, once he committed to us. How many franchises do that - win every single time they have a HOF still at all-star superstar level, sign with them. That is what the Lakers do. Every single time.

FAs had become accustomed to revolt against the Lakers. The things have changed so much. You will see the benefits of all this, not only with the ring. But after Bron leaves, and the next big time FA is looking around.

(bleep), I am just happy we did it in dedication to Kobe. That alone was enough. But if if was not, look at all the other factors.


The team that won a championship for the legacy of Kobe got decimated after winning a ring. So it's hard for me to put a lot of faith in the decisions made by the FO. Kobe was happy and then started to roll in his grave.

But I think you are looking at this franchise as if they are the franchise of old under Jerry buss. Players don't really care about the legacy of this franchise, enough for them to wanna join. Times have changed. They are not gonna look at how they delivered Bron a championship. The players don't even respect that championship. Then you look at the next year when they got rid of a lot the players that brought the franchise a championship. That's not a good look.


What players don't respect last years championship?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:23 am    Post subject:

Also did anybody see Randle play in the playoffs? He was horrendous.

Last edited by LakersMD on Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:23 am    Post subject:

A lot of the guys on your list have already moved on to their third or even fourth team. Most of them have had good years, and not so good years.

So I'm not invested in the alternative reality where all of them remain Lakers and perform together near their career highs, winning ring after ring after ring.

If we didn't go after AD and LeBron I can imagine a gazillion different alternative realities, some of which are very good for us, some of which are very bad for us, and some which are everywhere in between. I see no reason to beat myself up fantasizing that we lost out on the absolute best alternative reality.


Last edited by activeverb on Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:25 am    Post subject:

BigJosh951 wrote:
Outspoken wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Just ask yourself one thing if you are a Laker fan.

We all remember Kobe. I mean who could not. Loved him. Hated him at times. Frustrated at him. The joy of his heroics. Marvel. All of that. He is the legend.

Think about if we had not traded for AD, and mamba passes, if the Lakers could have won the title that year in dedication to him. The team was in a perfect position to make it about that, because they had traded for AD. Who then carried the team on his back. I mean, that is what Lakers legacy is all about. We are not the Thunder, Sixers. or even Spurs. We never ever have built from the draft alone. We have always built via trade, FA and draft.

I get it, some are still hurt we traded away so many young draft picks that had become beloved. But what the move accomplished last year was epic. It goes beyond just winning a title. The Lakers won 16 already before that. It was about Kobe. It was about becoming respectable again (dude we had become the laughing stock of the league and media).

Maybe most overlooked in it all. One day in the future. Perhaps a talent like Steph Curry, or another perennial MVP guy like Luka Doncic will be a FA. And we may have the capspace. He will look at how we delivered a ring with Lebron, as any way possible, once he committed to us. How many franchises do that - win every single time they have a HOF still at all-star superstar level, sign with them. That is what the Lakers do. Every single time.

FAs had become accustomed to revolt against the Lakers. The things have changed so much. You will see the benefits of all this, not only with the ring. But after Bron leaves, and the next big time FA is looking around.

(bleep), I am just happy we did it in dedication to Kobe. That alone was enough. But if if was not, look at all the other factors.


The team that won a championship for the legacy of Kobe got decimated after winning a ring. So it's hard for me to put a lot of faith in the decisions made by the FO. Kobe was happy and then started to roll in his grave.

But I think you are looking at this franchise as if they are the franchise of old under Jerry buss. Players don't really care about the legacy of this franchise, enough for them to wanna join. Times have changed. They are not gonna look at how they delivered Bron a championship. The players don't even respect that championship. Then you look at the next year when they got rid of a lot the players that brought the franchise a championship. That's not a good look.


What players don't respect last years championship?


All the players calling the ring a Mickey mouse ring. Chris Paul just recently said it.....
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:29 am    Post subject:

But y'all are not answering the question(s).

My questions are: are you comfortable with Lakers being under Klutch? How much faith do you have in Rob? Because he is allegedly controlled by Klutch and also, he said he consulted with Kobe a lot about moves and Kobe confirmed it in an interview. I don't know if Kobe would have agreed with dismantling a championship squad. Rob's the only GM in history that have done that after a teams 1st championship run.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:30 am    Post subject:

Outspoken wrote:
BigJosh951 wrote:
Outspoken wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Just ask yourself one thing if you are a Laker fan.

We all remember Kobe. I mean who could not. Loved him. Hated him at times. Frustrated at him. The joy of his heroics. Marvel. All of that. He is the legend.

Think about if we had not traded for AD, and mamba passes, if the Lakers could have won the title that year in dedication to him. The team was in a perfect position to make it about that, because they had traded for AD. Who then carried the team on his back. I mean, that is what Lakers legacy is all about. We are not the Thunder, Sixers. or even Spurs. We never ever have built from the draft alone. We have always built via trade, FA and draft.

I get it, some are still hurt we traded away so many young draft picks that had become beloved. But what the move accomplished last year was epic. It goes beyond just winning a title. The Lakers won 16 already before that. It was about Kobe. It was about becoming respectable again (dude we had become the laughing stock of the league and media).

Maybe most overlooked in it all. One day in the future. Perhaps a talent like Steph Curry, or another perennial MVP guy like Luka Doncic will be a FA. And we may have the capspace. He will look at how we delivered a ring with Lebron, as any way possible, once he committed to us. How many franchises do that - win every single time they have a HOF still at all-star superstar level, sign with them. That is what the Lakers do. Every single time.

FAs had become accustomed to revolt against the Lakers. The things have changed so much. You will see the benefits of all this, not only with the ring. But after Bron leaves, and the next big time FA is looking around.

(bleep), I am just happy we did it in dedication to Kobe. That alone was enough. But if if was not, look at all the other factors.


The team that won a championship for the legacy of Kobe got decimated after winning a ring. So it's hard for me to put a lot of faith in the decisions made by the FO. Kobe was happy and then started to roll in his grave.

But I think you are looking at this franchise as if they are the franchise of old under Jerry buss. Players don't really care about the legacy of this franchise, enough for them to wanna join. Times have changed. They are not gonna look at how they delivered Bron a championship. The players don't even respect that championship. Then you look at the next year when they got rid of a lot the players that brought the franchise a championship. That's not a good look.


What players don't respect last years championship?


All the players calling the ring a Mickey mouse ring. Chris Paul just recently said it.....


Those are idiots that say that, including Chris Paul. Everyone is just jealous because they haven't won squat, including Paul who won't win anything this year either.
Not sure why anyone thinks playing in the bubble was not a real championship, I argue that it could have been the hardest championship won in the history of the NBA considering what the players and their families had to go through for the those months. Stupid commentary by pure idiots that don't think the championship is valid. Bunch if idiots.....
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mad55557777
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:31 am    Post subject:

Outspoken wrote:
BigJosh951 wrote:
Outspoken wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Just ask yourself one thing if you are a Laker fan.

We all remember Kobe. I mean who could not. Loved him. Hated him at times. Frustrated at him. The joy of his heroics. Marvel. All of that. He is the legend.

Think about if we had not traded for AD, and mamba passes, if the Lakers could have won the title that year in dedication to him. The team was in a perfect position to make it about that, because they had traded for AD. Who then carried the team on his back. I mean, that is what Lakers legacy is all about. We are not the Thunder, Sixers. or even Spurs. We never ever have built from the draft alone. We have always built via trade, FA and draft.

I get it, some are still hurt we traded away so many young draft picks that had become beloved. But what the move accomplished last year was epic. It goes beyond just winning a title. The Lakers won 16 already before that. It was about Kobe. It was about becoming respectable again (dude we had become the laughing stock of the league and media).

Maybe most overlooked in it all. One day in the future. Perhaps a talent like Steph Curry, or another perennial MVP guy like Luka Doncic will be a FA. And we may have the capspace. He will look at how we delivered a ring with Lebron, as any way possible, once he committed to us. How many franchises do that - win every single time they have a HOF still at all-star superstar level, sign with them. That is what the Lakers do. Every single time.

FAs had become accustomed to revolt against the Lakers. The things have changed so much. You will see the benefits of all this, not only with the ring. But after Bron leaves, and the next big time FA is looking around.

(bleep), I am just happy we did it in dedication to Kobe. That alone was enough. But if if was not, look at all the other factors.


The team that won a championship for the legacy of Kobe got decimated after winning a ring. So it's hard for me to put a lot of faith in the decisions made by the FO. Kobe was happy and then started to roll in his grave.

But I think you are looking at this franchise as if they are the franchise of old under Jerry buss. Players don't really care about the legacy of this franchise, enough for them to wanna join. Times have changed. They are not gonna look at how they delivered Bron a championship. The players don't even respect that championship. Then you look at the next year when they got rid of a lot the players that brought the franchise a championship. That's not a good look.


What players don't respect last years championship?


All the players calling the ring a Mickey mouse ring. Chris Paul just recently said it.....

Was there an * next to it? Or the 1999 shortened season ring for the Spurs? Or an * next to the raptors ring says” we got lucky KD and Klay went down”
What ring does CP3 has?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:31 am    Post subject:

No one will care 3-4 years from now about how the ring was won. Just like the 1999 Spurs title, no one even remembers it. Are people gonna call this years ring run as well like that as it was shortened quick make up start season ... with a lot of covid issues that drained teams .... no.

As for the decimated, I disagree. The core of the team was AD-Bron and coach Vogel. Yeah, they definitely made some significant changes with Rondo, Howard, Green, McGee all gone. But in the end, even with those guys, if AD is hurt after game 3, we lose this series. Maybe we lose it in 7 games and maybe we do not look like ass and look like a team. Because there was chemistry there. But the loss was still always coming in year 2, with the AD injury (not to mention the LBJ injury that he is clearly far from 100% from).
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:31 am    Post subject:

I don't understand how people don't seem to realize that if we were to have kept DLO, BI, Clarkson, Randle, Hart, Zubac, Lonzo, etc etc, we would have had to pay them all.

BI and DLO both got max or near max extensions
Clarkson is on a 15M per year contract
Randle is about to be at 20+M after this offseason
Lonzo will get a bit deal this offseason..

You see my point. A team with those guys on it likely isn't winning anything, and the tax bill would be astronomical for a likely first or 2nd round exit.

I'll take the ring a million times out of a million, even if we didn't get a parade.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:33 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
No one will care 3-4 years from now about how the ring was won. Just like the 1999 Spurs title, no one even remembers it. Are people gonna call this years ring run as well like that as it was shortened quick make up start season ... with a lot of covid issues that drained teams .... no.

As for the decimated, I disagree. The core of the team was AD-Bron and coach Vogel. Yeah, they definitely made some significant changes with Rondo, Howard, Green, McGee all gone. But in the end, even with those guys, if AD is hurt after game 3, we lose this series. Maybe we lose it in 7 games and maybe we do not look like ass and look like a team. Because there was chemistry there. But the loss was still always coming in year 2, with the AD injury (not to mention the LBJ injury that he is clearly far from 100% from).


Half of core will be 37 years old... the other even more injury prone with an Achilles hanging by a string.
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