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petergr
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:16 am    Post subject: Next 4 years

The ring was awesome...Front office needs to do a much better job to navigate the next 4 years with the team entering salary cap hell. Lakers don't control the picks for the next four years after this...no protections too.

I think the title window for Lebron is closed. They really need to to hit a home run with this year's pick....need to get a wing in the caliber of Ingram or OG Anunoby to rebuild post Lebron.

Last off season was bad:
1) Letting Rondo leave and having the full MLE was a good move. But that was wasted on Harrell who is unplayable in crunch time . That will be the last 10 M free agent slot.
2) Giving up Danny Green. Schroeder is worth giving up a first rounder but giving up a solid 3&D starter on a good contract as filler salary was bad
3) Letting Dwight walk for no reason and then creating a mess at Center
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:21 am    Post subject: Re: Next 4 years

petergr wrote:
The ring was awesome...Front office needs to do a much better job to navigate the next 4 years with the team entering salary cap hell. Lakers don't control the picks for the next four years after this...no protections too.

I think the title window for Lebron is closed. They really need to to hit a home run with this year's pick....need to get a wing in the caliber of Ingram or OG Anunoby to rebuild post Lebron.

Last off season was bad:
1) Letting Rondo leave and having the full MLE was a good move. But that was wasted on Harrell who is unplayable in crunch time . That will be the last 10 M free agent slot.
2) Giving up Danny Green. Schroeder is worth giving up a first rounder but giving up a solid 3&D starter on a good contract as filler salary was bad
3) Letting Dwight walk for no reason and then creating a mess at Center


There was nothing wrong with last off-season. If you reverse all of the above listed moves and then lose AD in the playoffs and have LeBron at 60%, it would still be a first round exit.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:27 am    Post subject: Re: Next 4 years

petergr wrote:
The ring was awesome...Front office needs to do a much better job to navigate the next 4 years with the team entering salary cap hell. Lakers don't control the picks for the next four years after this...no protections too.

I think the title window for Lebron is closed. They really need to to hit a home run with this year's pick....need to get a wing in the caliber of Ingram or OG Anunoby to rebuild post Lebron.

Last off season was bad:
1) Letting Rondo leave and having the full MLE was a good move. But that was wasted on Harrell who is unplayable in crunch time . That will be the last 10 M free agent slot.
2) Giving up Danny Green. Schroeder is worth giving up a first rounder but giving up a solid 3&D starter on a good contract as filler salary was bad
3) Letting Dwight walk for no reason and then creating a mess at Center

If not Trezz, then who? Ibaka? The point is that MLE aren’t suppose to get you a star, and Trezz being sixth man of the year for MLE was a great deal. It’s a shame it didn’t work out, but the move itself wasn’t bad at the time
Danny green had a very mediocre 2020 with us, and I don’t know who wouldn’t trade him for the a guy finished 2nd in sixth man of the year. DS might be inconsistent and all, but he was clearly our 3rd best player in this season.
Dwight didn’t wait for us
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:29 am    Post subject: Re: Next 4 years

petergr wrote:
The ring was awesome...Front office needs to do a much better job to navigate the next 4 years with the team entering salary cap hell. Lakers don't control the picks for the next four years after this...no protections too.

I think the title window for Lebron is closed. They really need to to hit a home run with this year's pick....need to get a wing in the caliber of Ingram or OG Anunoby to rebuild post Lebron.

Last off season was bad:
1) Letting Rondo leave and having the full MLE was a good move. But that was wasted on Harrell who is unplayable in crunch time . That will be the last 10 M free agent slot.
2) Giving up Danny Green. Schroeder is worth giving up a first rounder but giving up a solid 3&D starter on a good contract as filler salary was bad
3) Letting Dwight walk for no reason and then creating a mess at Center


Everything you said is 100% correct. People will fall back on the injury-card because it's a convenient way to deflect culpability, and people don't like to confront conflict anyway. But make no mistake about it, Rob Pelinka did a dis-service to the Lakers when he deconstructed a championship winning roster. Injuries, while a major contributor to the Lakers not repeating, have nothing to do with Pelinka's gambling, and losing, with what was a proven roster.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:58 am    Post subject: Re: Next 4 years

petergr wrote:
The ring was awesome...Front office needs to do a much better job to navigate the next 4 years with the team entering salary cap hell. Lakers don't control the picks for the next four years after this...no protections too.

I think the title window for Lebron is closed. They really need to to hit a home run with this year's pick....need to get a wing in the caliber of Ingram or OG Anunoby to rebuild post Lebron.

Last off season was bad:
1) Letting Rondo leave and having the full MLE was a good move. But that was wasted on Harrell who is unplayable in crunch time . That will be the last 10 M free agent slot.
2) Giving up Danny Green. Schroeder is worth giving up a first rounder but giving up a solid 3&D starter on a good contract as filler salary was bad
3) Letting Dwight walk for no reason and then creating a mess at Center


I don't agree with your opinions.

The team was doing great until Lebron and AD got hurt. Considering injuries derailed everything about game 30, I really don't know if all the moves were a net positive, a net negative, or neutral. I don't think there's any way to judge that.

If AD and LeBron come back healthy, I see no reason that we will not contend next year.

The draft is a crap shoot. We've done well in recent years and you hope for the best. But I don't expect the 20th spot in the draft to produce a player who will immediately become a key contributor. If it happens, great. But a lot of that is due to luck and factors outside your control


Last edited by activeverb on Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:00 am    Post subject: Re: Next 4 years

Dr. Laker wrote:
If you reverse all of the above listed moves and then lose AD in the playoffs and have LeBron at 60%, it would still be a first round exit.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:13 am    Post subject: Re: Next 4 years

Dr. Laker wrote:
petergr wrote:
The ring was awesome...Front office needs to do a much better job to navigate the next 4 years with the team entering salary cap hell. Lakers don't control the picks for the next four years after this...no protections too.

I think the title window for Lebron is closed. They really need to to hit a home run with this year's pick....need to get a wing in the caliber of Ingram or OG Anunoby to rebuild post Lebron.

Last off season was bad:
1) Letting Rondo leave and having the full MLE was a good move. But that was wasted on Harrell who is unplayable in crunch time . That will be the last 10 M free agent slot.
2) Giving up Danny Green. Schroeder is worth giving up a first rounder but giving up a solid 3&D starter on a good contract as filler salary was bad
3) Letting Dwight walk for no reason and then creating a mess at Center


There was nothing wrong with last off-season. If you reverse all of the above listed moves and then lose AD in the playoffs and have LeBron at 60%, it would still be a first round exit.


thats true (and obvious), but the last offseason was still bad

having two all nba players like Lebron and Anthony: fit > talent
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:14 am    Post subject:

“The team was doing great” is an interesting comment.

Despite the winning record there were indications of issues even before the injuries derailed the team.

Too many slow starts that put them down double digits early, inconsistent efforts, mis-communication issues on defensive rotations, careless turn overs, personality or chemistry issues all come to mind.

How many times did they need max effort “ comebacks” to win. Or had big leads that they squandered and had to battle to win. Both opportunities to load manage the stars that were lost.

Even a 3-5 bad losses before the injuries due to piss poor effort and being out worked by teams they should have beaten. A couple wins potentially changes the need to play in or bring James and / or Davis back without a few more days rest and treatment. Likely wouldn’t change the outcome but still a point to be considered.

Team was inconsistent and had flaws all season. They just were highlighted with the injuries and the way the team went out whimpering instead of competing. Same team all season long.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:49 am    Post subject:

I truly believe the team was just unlucky with injuries, plus the roster turned out to be a less than ideal fit.

On paper the offseason moves were great, and most people would probably do it.

What if he didn't do those moves, we roll with last season's team and we come up short. Then we realized he could have made these moves all along. We'd probably still blame him for not making these moves to upgrade the roster.

Very tricky situation I would say.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:00 am    Post subject:

Kobetan wrote:
I truly believe the team was just unlucky with injuries, plus the roster turned out to be a less than ideal fit.

On paper the offseason moves were great, and most people would probably do it.

What if he didn't do those moves, we roll with last season's team and we come up short. Then we realized he could have made these moves all along. We'd probably still blame him for not making these moves to upgrade the roster.

Very tricky situation I would say.


Exactly. Very "Monday morning quarterback" kind of feel. It is very easy to dissect a situation, and say what should or shouldn't have been done, after the final results are in
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:04 am    Post subject:

If the Nets can pull it off, so can the Lakers.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:10 am    Post subject: Re: Next 4 years

Dr. Laker wrote:
petergr wrote:
The ring was awesome...Front office needs to do a much better job to navigate the next 4 years with the team entering salary cap hell. Lakers don't control the picks for the next four years after this...no protections too.

I think the title window for Lebron is closed. They really need to to hit a home run with this year's pick....need to get a wing in the caliber of Ingram or OG Anunoby to rebuild post Lebron.

Last off season was bad:
1) Letting Rondo leave and having the full MLE was a good move. But that was wasted on Harrell who is unplayable in crunch time . That will be the last 10 M free agent slot.
2) Giving up Danny Green. Schroeder is worth giving up a first rounder but giving up a solid 3&D starter on a good contract as filler salary was bad
3) Letting Dwight walk for no reason and then creating a mess at Center


There was nothing wrong with last off-season. If you reverse all of the above listed moves and then lose AD in the playoffs and have LeBron at 60%, it would still be a first round exit.


Period.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:47 am    Post subject: Re: Next 4 years

danzag wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
petergr wrote:
The ring was awesome...Front office needs to do a much better job to navigate the next 4 years with the team entering salary cap hell. Lakers don't control the picks for the next four years after this...no protections too.

I think the title window for Lebron is closed. They really need to to hit a home run with this year's pick....need to get a wing in the caliber of Ingram or OG Anunoby to rebuild post Lebron.

Last off season was bad:
1) Letting Rondo leave and having the full MLE was a good move. But that was wasted on Harrell who is unplayable in crunch time . That will be the last 10 M free agent slot.
2) Giving up Danny Green. Schroeder is worth giving up a first rounder but giving up a solid 3&D starter on a good contract as filler salary was bad
3) Letting Dwight walk for no reason and then creating a mess at Center


There was nothing wrong with last off-season. If you reverse all of the above listed moves and then lose AD in the playoffs and have LeBron at 60%, it would still be a first round exit.


Period.


Exclamation point!
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 12:05 pm    Post subject:

Harrell. Was only expected to be here 1 year and opt out. He was chasing a ring and building his value. He turned out to be undersized and we missed those easy lobs we got from D12 and McGee.

DS. Another guy chasing a contract and not a ring. He should have come off the bench. He had stretches in the regular season where he was terrible. Going forward, before he is traded away, he should be forced to compete with THT for starting minutes. He had chemistry issues it seems with some players on and off the court with his style of play and off putting attitude.

Kuzma. Got his contract because he thought he would stay in LA and chase rings with Lebron and AD. Offensive system never fit his skillset and he had to defer his play to Lebron and AD. Underperformed in the Playoffs, missing open 3s in crucial moments that we needed to win Games 1, 4, and 6. He may have reached his ceiling and worn out his welcome in LA.

KCP. Gritted it out through injury. An elite defender on ball when healthy. I take him over Wes Matthews.

Gasol. Not a starter anymore. Good coming off the bench as a backup.

Damion Jones. Should have kept him to go against Ayton. Better hands than AD2. Once again we took potential in AD2 over what had been working.

AD2. A complete flop. He has size, but fumbles the ball way too much. Low basketball IQ. If he didn't have size he would be sitting. Didn't provide much more than McGee did.

Caruso. When he was on the court without Lebron, his flaws showed. Not great at the point or driving, had an inconsistent 3 that was absent when we needed it.

THT. Needed to have an offensive counter with a left hand and a reliable 3 to get a step on defenders. Can flat out score. Teammates seemed not to pass him the ball to match his confidence that he could score. He is fearless, and will improve through practice and muscle memory. Will benefit from practices and a regular routine next season. Adding a 3 ball could make him a star. Pretty much our only young talent going forward.

Lebron. Came back early and found out he was not the same yet. He wasn't going to complain. Another long summer for him will be good for his health. The last time he had a long summer and was hungry we won a chip. Granted he is 37 and can't carry a team alone. Was the MVP before his ankle injury.

AD. Dominated in Games 2 and 3. Get healthy and this season would have a different ending. Never really was healthy all year.

Vogel. Showed too much favoritism to veterans and recent signings. DS starting, Gasol starting, Drummond starting when they really didn't earn it.
Should have given more time to develop THT in the regular season instead of Wes. Wes had a poor Game 6. Vogel tried to run 11 deep, and it only worked due to injuries. Too many players didn't know their roles or spots. There was a lack of a clear offensive pecking order with Lebron and AD out. That hurt the offense when it wasn't based on best shot, open man, or set plays. Veterans got to chuck and others got the quick leash.

Kieff. Came back cheap, but missed 3s in Game 6 he made last year. Could have been the difference, but wasn't.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 12:28 pm    Post subject:

...will be torture if they don't resolve AD's injury woes.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:21 pm    Post subject:

I still think the Lebron/AD combo allows the Lakers to attract talent on the cheap.

I could be wrong, but Lebron's ankle/AD's groin is not the same as Kobe's Achilles.


If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I'm not inside the head of any NBA player/agent.

But, I think we will have another really nice squad next year.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Next 4 years

troy wrote:
People will fall back on the injury-card because it's a convenient way to deflect culpability, and people don't like to confront conflict anyway. But make no mistake about it, Rob Pelinka did a dis-service to the Lakers when he deconstructed a championship winning roster. Injuries, while a major contributor to the Lakers not repeating, have nothing to do with Pelinka's gambling, and losing, with what was a proven roster.


People fall back on injury because it is a FACT that without AD and with a hobbled Lebron the Lakers were not going to repeat under any circumstances. All the other talk is nonsense. Injuries were not merely a major factor, but the determining factor. The team was built around AD and LBJ. It wasn't built around the role players. There is no world in which they win without their two stars but a healthy Javale, Dwight, Rondo and Green. Maybe they would have gotten through to the 2nd round, but then they would have crashed and burned. And that is still a maybe.

The reality is people fall back on the blame the GM game because for some weird reason they don't want to admit injuries are to blame. I'm guessing it is because injuries aren't a person you can direct anger at and they're kind of random, so in order to be able to vent your disappointment you create the GM bogeyman to blame. We can certainly debate the merits of various moves Rob made, but end of the day it had nothing to do with the outcome.

Say it again people: NO HEALTHY AD AND LBJ NO TITLE. The end. Sorry, these aren't the Nets who have a third superstar they can turn to, we only got 2.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:09 pm    Post subject:

Injuries and fatigue were the tax paid for winning in the bubble last season. 3 of the 4 top teams from last year are all out in the first round with only Denver surviving. This year's poor playoff performance had little to do with the front office who did a terrific job of adding skilled veterans to our roster. No amount of spin will take away our 2020 championship during COVID-190, the bubble, and the price we just paid to win during all of it.

Next season I expect that most of this roster will remain the same, but will be healthy, well practiced and dominant throughout the year.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Next 4 years

activeverb wrote:
petergr wrote:
The ring was awesome...Front office needs to do a much better job to navigate the next 4 years with the team entering salary cap hell. Lakers don't control the picks for the next four years after this...no protections too.

I think the title window for Lebron is closed. They really need to to hit a home run with this year's pick....need to get a wing in the caliber of Ingram or OG Anunoby to rebuild post Lebron.

Last off season was bad:
1) Letting Rondo leave and having the full MLE was a good move. But that was wasted on Harrell who is unplayable in crunch time . That will be the last 10 M free agent slot.
2) Giving up Danny Green. Schroeder is worth giving up a first rounder but giving up a solid 3&D starter on a good contract as filler salary was bad
3) Letting Dwight walk for no reason and then creating a mess at Center


I don't agree with your opinions.

The team was doing great until Lebron and AD got hurt. Considering injuries derailed everything about game 30, I really don't know if all the moves were a net positive, a net negative, or neutral. I don't think there's any way to judge that.

If AD and LeBron come back healthy, I see no reason that we will not contend next year.

The draft is a crap shoot. We've done well in recent years and you hope for the best. But I don't expect the 20th spot in the draft to produce a player who will immediately become a key contributor. If it happens, great. But a lot of that is due to luck and factors outside your control


I agree, the injury excuse is a real thing and that is the reason I believe the Lakers didn't do good this year.

I mean look at history, the Warriors were derailed by Kawhi and the Raptors because of injury.

In 2008 after the Celtics defeated the Lakers and were picked to repeat, they didn't make the finals due to injury..only to be healthy the next year and nearly beat the Lakers in the finals in 2010

In 2004, a Malone injury kept the Lakers from reaching their full potential. Same for Dwight and the Lakers in 2012.

You can cite a lot of examples were injuries kept a team from reaching their full potential..the shortened break after the championship didn't help but injuries is part of the game.

Unfortunately no matter how well a roster a GM puts together, the bad luck of injuries is something that can't be controlled.

Look at Phoenix for example, I believe they are one of the teams that gone the year nearly injury free.

A combination of luck, talent, and the like makes the difference between a championship or not.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:00 am    Post subject:

How is the injury talk in anyway just an "excuse"

When you build a team around 2 superstars with a bunch of role players and those 2 superstars get injured with 1 completely out and the other at 60-70% you're going to lose pretty much every single time in a series against a legitimate good team. There was absolutely plenty of guys that played awful in this series but once again without those 2 superstars we aren't winning a ring anyways against the few Elite teams even if we somehow squeaked by a few pretenders like the Suns or even the Nuggets.

I love how people bring up Dwight still who would have likely not even played this series much anyways and def. would not have been anywhere remotely close to a difference maker. Dennis had a few absolute abysmal games and a few very solid ones which sounds a lot like Danny Green when he wears P&G.

It's a shame because I fully believe we still had the best team in the NBA this season but health is as important as anything and it just was a nonstop pest all season long for us. Sometimes you just have to simply admit it wasn't our year and let it go. All these little nit picks of things are irrelevant without a healthy AD and Bron.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:44 am    Post subject:

Most on this board were happy (for the most part) going into this season. This was obviously a weird time because of Covid. The two teams who played in the championship last season flamed. Is it a coincidence? I do not think so considering their lack of rest. Riles has come out and said such. So we had a tired team pushing which resulted in more injuries than the norm (games lost are hard to overcome for any team). Players who are not playing because of or trying to play while injured is a recipe for disaster for ANY team. Couple that with guys underperforming and we have what we are faced with today. It really is not rocket science.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 2:25 am    Post subject:

People could continue with the injury excuse, to make themselves feel better and have an understanding to the losing situation, but it still doesn't excuse Rob's mistake of dismantling a championship squad. That's biggest mistake, to me. No other GM would ever do that because it's dumb as hell. That was an idiotic move. People keep saying "well if this happened to last year's team, they wouldn't have won neither." I would have liked to see and would have been more comfortable with losing than understanding Rob made a bone head decision by dismantling a championship squad. Last years team are proven champions, as an unit and chemistry doesn't leave, it grows. More toughness, more basketball IQ, more defensive intensity; I think they would have willed their way through many games, without AD and Bron. With this team, what they lacked was exposed, when AD and Bron went down. Even if AD and Lebron were healthy, they still lacked the same thing. They didn't lack as much with last year team and also not so reliant on Bron and AD. Next 4 years, I don't know what to expect because right now, I don't have any faith in Rob.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 2:50 am    Post subject: Re: Next 4 years

Dr. Laker wrote:
petergr wrote:
The ring was awesome...Front office needs to do a much better job to navigate the next 4 years with the team entering salary cap hell. Lakers don't control the picks for the next four years after this...no protections too.

I think the title window for Lebron is closed. They really need to to hit a home run with this year's pick....need to get a wing in the caliber of Ingram or OG Anunoby to rebuild post Lebron.

Last off season was bad:
1) Letting Rondo leave and having the full MLE was a good move. But that was wasted on Harrell who is unplayable in crunch time . That will be the last 10 M free agent slot.
2) Giving up Danny Green. Schroeder is worth giving up a first rounder but giving up a solid 3&D starter on a good contract as filler salary was bad
3) Letting Dwight walk for no reason and then creating a mess at Center


There was nothing wrong with last off-season. If you reverse all of the above listed moves and then lose AD in the playoffs and have LeBron at 60%, it would still be a first round exit.


And our offense would have been about 10x worse.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:16 am    Post subject:

People can also flame and pull the Monday morning QB card all they want in order to make them feel righteous. We would have, should have, could have.....Again, most on this board were fine with the construction of the team (for the most part) going into this season. There were some hiccups in the construction but nothing that would foreshadow where we are today. If some want to turn their back on injuries, that is fine. However, the combination of injuries and key players underperforming is a recipe for disaster for ANY team.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:58 am    Post subject:

Why dont we blame Bob Myers for the supporting cast he built last two years
and say that the injuries are just an excuse?
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