Welcome DENNIS SCHRÖDER (Acquired for Danny Green and the 28th Pick)
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GOODRICH25
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:09 pm    Post subject:

I said it when it happened and I say it again, thank God he rejected that ridiculous offer from us. Imagine being stuck with him on a huge contract
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:49 pm    Post subject:

GOODRICH25 wrote:
I said it when it happened and I say it again, thank God he rejected that ridiculous offer from us. Imagine being stuck with him on a huge contract


We still might be... Don't count your chickens just yet.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:55 pm    Post subject:

Killer_Z wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
Lakerz113 wrote:
We may need a sticky thread exposing to fans how we can pay this man, but not take the same amount and pay a free agent. Fans don’t seem to understand this principal.


That sounds fair, but it should be accompanied by an equally emphatic explanation about how it is possible that at a certain price... somewhere between 18 million and 30 million dollars per season that no GM, no matter how desperate will trade for him.


$18M to $30M is a fairly large range. Several GM's would love to have DS at under $20M.

Regardless of any of our opinions, the Laker are going to do everything they can to resign DS whether we as fans like it or not. Why you ask? For the same reason all of the salary cap informed participants in this thread continue to remind the rest of you: ASSET MANAGEMENT ...... WE HAVE NO CAP SPACE.

Suck it up and go by yourself a DS jersey cause he's staying.


THIS IS WHAT A $30 MILLION POINT GUARD LOOKS LIKE

https://youtu.be/hFSoDW26P-8
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:26 pm    Post subject:

Killer_Z wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
Lakerz113 wrote:
We may need a sticky thread exposing to fans how we can pay this man, but not take the same amount and pay a free agent. Fans don’t seem to understand this principal.


That sounds fair, but it should be accompanied by an equally emphatic explanation about how it is possible that at a certain price... somewhere between 18 million and 30 million dollars per season that no GM, no matter how desperate will trade for him.


$18M to $30M is a fairly large range. Several GM's would love to have DS at under $20M.

Regardless of any of our opinions, the Laker are going to do everything they can to resign DS whether we as fans like it or not. Why you ask? For the same reason all of the salary cap informed participants in this thread continue to remind the rest of you: ASSET MANAGEMENT ...... WE HAVE NO CAP SPACE.

Suck it up and go by yourself a DS jersey cause he's staying.


Toronto didn’t want his bird rights for a player whose walking in free agency (Lowry). Schroder is lost. He’s a losing basketball player. He doesn’t think the game and can’t make the right play. He stagnates the offense because of his indecision and his inability to make the correct read.

He’s also a mediocre passer and shooter.

He can get to the basket but he’s an average finisher at the rim.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:17 pm    Post subject:

I hope Schroeder has already packed his bags.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:46 pm    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
Killer_Z wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
Lakerz113 wrote:
We may need a sticky thread exposing to fans how we can pay this man, but not take the same amount and pay a free agent. Fans don’t seem to understand this principal.


That sounds fair, but it should be accompanied by an equally emphatic explanation about how it is possible that at a certain price... somewhere between 18 million and 30 million dollars per season that no GM, no matter how desperate will trade for him.


$18M to $30M is a fairly large range. Several GM's would love to have DS at under $20M.

Regardless of any of our opinions, the Laker are going to do everything they can to resign DS whether we as fans like it or not. Why you ask? For the same reason all of the salary cap informed participants in this thread continue to remind the rest of you: ASSET MANAGEMENT ...... WE HAVE NO CAP SPACE.

Suck it up and go by yourself a DS jersey cause he's staying.


THIS IS WHAT A $30 MILLION POINT GUARD LOOKS LIKE

https://youtu.be/hFSoDW26P-8


Paul is making $41 million this year.

A $30 million point guard is Kyle Lowry or D'angelo Russell.

A $18-20 million point guard gets you Malcolm Brogdon or Goran Dragic.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:04 pm    Post subject:

GOODRICH25 wrote:
I said it when it happened and I say it again, thank God he rejected that ridiculous offer from us. Imagine being stuck with him on a huge contract



I am not in love with DS, but the offer we made -- four years starting at $18.6 million -- is probably not super outside his value.

That's about on par with what Eric Bledsoe and Ricky Rubio make.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:00 pm    Post subject:

Dragic got only 1 guaranteed year at 18 mill after being the starting PG leader on an NBA finals team. Dropping 19/4.4/4.1 on 44/35/80 splits in the playoffs.

Meanwhile we're talking about paying 4 years/80+ mill for a guy who dropped 14/3/3 on 40/30/85 splits in the playoffs. 1st round exit. Had a goose egg game. And was running things for a large part of that 14 point 1st quarter in an elimination game.

This DS situation reminds me of those survival shows when someone has to drink their own urine to avoid dying from dehydration.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:54 pm    Post subject:

calrkson contract or else bye
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Lakerz113
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:32 pm    Post subject:

We have to pay the man. Weather it be for his services or for a future trade where salary’s match.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:19 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Dragic got only 1 guaranteed year at 18 mill after being the starting PG leader on an NBA finals team. Dropping 19/4.4/4.1 on 44/35/80 splits in the playoffs.

Meanwhile we're talking about paying 4 years/80+ mill for a guy who dropped 14/3/3 on 40/30/85 splits in the playoffs. 1st round exit. Had a goose egg game. And was running things for a large part of that 14 point 1st quarter in an elimination game.

This DS situation reminds me of those survival shows when someone has to drink their own urine to avoid dying from dehydration.


Dragic is apples-to-oranges. The season ended with him out with a bad foot and about to turn 35. He only got one year because of health and age, and because the tight free agent market didn't give him options. If someone offered him a multi-year deal the Heat were ready to let him go, but no one did.

I don't think you can use him as a comparison with DS at this point. If Dragic were healthy and in his 20s, he'd probably command a multi-year salary starting at $30 million or more.
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BILBJH
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:30 am    Post subject:

I asked this a few pages back to Lakerz113 but I will ask both activeverb and he the same question again in hopes of an answer.

What is the limit that you would pay Schroder then?

Is it 18.6?

Is it 21?

Is it 25?

Is it 30?

I already understand the principle of why we need to sign him... but what number is the line between pragmatism and sheer stupidity for you two?

For me that number is around 18.. but what number is it for you guys?

At what number would you actually say... okay, this is just too much...
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:01 am    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
I asked this a few pages back to Lakerz113 but I will ask both activeverb and he the same question again in hopes of an answer.

What is the limit that you would pay Schroder then?

Is it 18.6?

Is it 21?

Is it 25?

Is it 30?

I already understand the principle of why we need to sign him... but what number is the line between pragmatism and sheer stupidity for you two?

For me that number is around 18.. but what number is it for you guys?

At what number would you actually say... okay, this is just too much...



That’s a good question. Personally, I think his value is $15-20 million a year. In fact, I question whether on an absolute basis if he’s worth more than the $15.5 million he’s getting now.

That said, players often get much higher or lower salaries than I expect, so I appreciate I am not a great judge of NBA market dynamics.

I don’t really know where the line between pragmatism and stupidity is. I thought the last contract we offered (4 years, $84 million) was beyond his value, or at the very top of his value.

So as fan, that’s as high as I would go, and I would go there unhappily. If I were the GM, with, presumably, more information and actual consequences for my decision, my attitude might be different.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:08 am    Post subject:

Can we S&T him for Jordan Clarkson? Will LG ever accept JC back with open arms?
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:09 am    Post subject:

I think the ceiling is 21m, not 30m. It’s one thing to have a killer playoff run to increase his value.

I’m hoping it will fall in the 16-18m range.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:10 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
I asked this a few pages back to Lakerz113 but I will ask both activeverb and he the same question again in hopes of an answer.

What is the limit that you would pay Schroder then?

Is it 18.6?

Is it 21?

Is it 25?

Is it 30?

I already understand the principle of why we need to sign him... but what number is the line between pragmatism and sheer stupidity for you two?

For me that number is around 18.. but what number is it for you guys?

At what number would you actually say... okay, this is just too much...



That’s a good question. Personally, I think his value is $15-20 million a year. In fact, I question whether on an absolute basis if he’s worth more than the $15.5 million he’s getting now.

That said, players often get much higher or lower salaries than I expect, so I appreciate I am not a great judge of NBA market dynamics.

I don’t really know where the line between pragmatism and stupidity is. I thought the last contract we offered (4 years, $84 million) was beyond his value, or at the very top of his value.

So as fan, that’s as high as I would go, and I would go there unhappily. If I were the GM, with, presumably, more information and actual consequences for my decision, my attitude might be different.


Funny enough, that is where I've been at (until the past month or so) in evaluating what I think DS is worth, albeit folks have posted salaries exceeding that for players that give DS some argument to get more.

But I'm off the DS train at this point. He just seems very immature to me. If he walks, fine.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:11 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
I think the ceiling is 21m, not 30m. It’s one thing to have a killer playoff run to increase his value.

I’m hoping it will fall in the 16-18m range.


Other then being a starter what is he better at then Clarkson?

He might be in bottom 10% in starting PGs.

14m is Max for him
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:13 am    Post subject:

This guy played it wrong. Should have come off the bench, light it up and earn his second 6th moy award.

That way his value would be much higher then being one of the worst starting PG in the league.

Other then the Knicks or maybe the bulls every team had a better starting PG


Last edited by LGFan on Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:14 am    Post subject:

LGFan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I think the ceiling is 21m, not 30m. It’s one thing to have a killer playoff run to increase his value.

I’m hoping it will fall in the 16-18m range.


Other then being a starter what is he better at then Clarkson?

He might be in bottom 10% in starting PGs.

14m is Max for him


Again you are discounting the Lakers’s precarious cap situation. People should really read and educate themselves about how limited our budget to stock and improve (not just fill minimum roster slots but get better) is if we let him walk for nothing. There are tons of resources for that online and even some good ones that break it down on YouTube. Saying “just let him go” tell me this is a decision borne from emotion.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:16 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Dragic got only 1 guaranteed year at 18 mill after being the starting PG leader on an NBA finals team. Dropping 19/4.4/4.1 on 44/35/80 splits in the playoffs.

Meanwhile we're talking about paying 4 years/80+ mill for a guy who dropped 14/3/3 on 40/30/85 splits in the playoffs. 1st round exit. Had a goose egg game. And was running things for a large part of that 14 point 1st quarter in an elimination game.

This DS situation reminds me of those survival shows when someone has to drink their own urine to avoid dying from dehydration.


Dragic is apples-to-oranges. The season ended with him out with a bad foot and about to turn 35. He only got one year because of health and age, and because the tight free agent market didn't give him options. If someone offered him a multi-year deal the Heat were ready to let him go, but no one did.

I don't think you can use him as a comparison with DS at this point. If Dragic were healthy and in his 20s, he'd probably command a multi-year salary starting at $30 million or more.


Dragic's injury wasn't career ending. He just got hurt in the playoffs like the older $40 mill man CP3 has multiple times.

We don't know what the market offered him. News reports said he wanted to return to MIA for basketball reasons (he wants playoff success).

Sure. For a team that doesn't want playoff success. This year's DS is more valuable than last year's Dragic. If we end up paying twice as much for a player doing 1/2 as well as his positional competition. It's a recipe for ... losing.

But hey, I get we don't want to lose the asset for nothing. Just don't know why some people are excited and passionate about the overpay. It's faaaaaaaaaaar from ideal. DS is gonna be making around what Pat Beverley and Rondo make next year ... combined. And at least those guys expire next year. Their trade value will be >>>>>>> than DS's.
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Last edited by kikanga on Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:36 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:34 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
activeverb wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Dragic got only 1 guaranteed year at 18 mill after being the starting PG leader on an NBA finals team. Dropping 19/4.4/4.1 on 44/35/80 splits in the playoffs.

Meanwhile we're talking about paying 4 years/80+ mill for a guy who dropped 14/3/3 on 40/30/85 splits in the playoffs. 1st round exit. Had a goose egg game. And was running things for a large part of that 14 point 1st quarter in an elimination game.

This DS situation reminds me of those survival shows when someone has to drink their own urine to avoid dying from dehydration.


Dragic is apples-to-oranges. The season ended with him out with a bad foot and about to turn 35. He only got one year because of health and age, and because the tight free agent market didn't give him options. If someone offered him a multi-year deal the Heat were ready to let him go, but no one did.

I don't think you can use him as a comparison with DS at this point. If Dragic were healthy and in his 20s, he'd probably command a multi-year salary starting at $30 million or more.


Dragic's injury wasn't career ending. He just got hurt in the playoffs like the older $40 mill man CP3 has multiple times.

We don't know what the market offered him. News reports said he wanted to return to MIA for basketball reasons (he wants playoff success).

Sure. For a team that doesn't want playoff success. This year's DS is more valuable than last year's Dragic. If we end up paying twice as much for a player doing 1/2 as well as his positional competition. It's a recipe for ... losing. That's just common sense.


We don't know what the market offered Dragic. That said, he did say he wanted a multi-year deal and he explored the market, and then came back to Miami for a one year offer. So I presume he didn't get huge offers. But you're right -- all the press releases that come after the fact don't tell the true story.

People can rail that DS' contract should be influenced by Dragic's contract, but that's not the way things work in the real work. The Lakers can't slap Dragic's contract onto the table and force DS to take it. This stuff is highly situational.

The Heat wouldn't offer Dragic more than one year because they wanted to preserve cap space to go after Giannis. If that hadn't been a factor, would they have given him a bigger deal? Beats me.

If you're arguing that DS doesn't deserve more than Dragic, I won't disagree. I just don't think that will matter one bit in the course of real events.

The bottom line will may end up: Is it better to overpaid DS or lose him for nothing? Not a new question to be sure, and not one I need to chime in on again.


Last edited by activeverb on Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:38 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
We don't know what the market offered Dragic. That said, he did say he wanted a multi-year deal and he explored the market, and then came back to Miami for a one year offer. So I presume he didn't get huge offers. But you're right -- all the press releases that come after the fact don't tell the true story.

People can rail that DS' contract should be influenced by Dragic's contract, but that's not the way things work in the real work. The Lakers can't slap Dragic's contract onto the table and force DS to take it. This stuff is highly situational.

The Heat wouldn't offer Dragic more than one year because they wanted to preserve cap space to go after Giannis. If that hadn't been a factor, would they have given him a bigger deal? Beats me.

I have no idea what offers DS will get or what, ultimately, we might offer him. I'm just another spectacular watching the roller coaster go up and down, wondering where it will end up.

If you're arguing that DS doesn't deserve more than Dragic, I won't disagree. I just don't think that will matter one bit in the course of real events.


Considering his Me-first attitude since day 1. We probably should've never traded for DS. Maybe Rob didn't see the signs.
We would've been much better off in the playoffs and this offseason if we just kept Rondo.

Winning and trade value that can be used to help us win some more. That should always be the goal.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:44 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
activeverb wrote:
We don't know what the market offered Dragic. That said, he did say he wanted a multi-year deal and he explored the market, and then came back to Miami for a one year offer. So I presume he didn't get huge offers. But you're right -- all the press releases that come after the fact don't tell the true story.

People can rail that DS' contract should be influenced by Dragic's contract, but that's not the way things work in the real work. The Lakers can't slap Dragic's contract onto the table and force DS to take it. This stuff is highly situational.

The Heat wouldn't offer Dragic more than one year because they wanted to preserve cap space to go after Giannis. If that hadn't been a factor, would they have given him a bigger deal? Beats me.

I have no idea what offers DS will get or what, ultimately, we might offer him. I'm just another spectacular watching the roller coaster go up and down, wondering where it will end up.

If you're arguing that DS doesn't deserve more than Dragic, I won't disagree. I just don't think that will matter one bit in the course of real events.


Considering his Me-first attitude since day 1. We probably should've never traded for DS. Maybe Rob didn't see the signs.
We would've been much better off in the playoffs and this offseason if we just kept Rondo.

Winning and trade value that can be used to help us win some more. That should always be the goal.


I don't care about woulda coulda shouldas. So all this stuff about what we should have done causes my eyes to glaze over.

The only question is what should we do now, based on the circumstances as they are.

It's not a situation with an easy answer. The hope is it ends up with a somewhat palatable conclusion, rather than a conclusion that is going to make anyone super happy.

Honestly, if DS can figure out how to get $25 million a year from the Lakers, good for him. It would suck as a Lakers fan, but I am an underdog guy -- I root for the millionaires over the billionaires.


Last edited by activeverb on Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:56 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:48 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:



That’s a good question. Personally, I think his value is $15-20 million a year. In fact, I question whether on an absolute basis if he’s worth more than the $15.5 million he’s getting now.

That said, players often get much higher or lower salaries than I expect, so I appreciate I am not a great judge of NBA market dynamics.

I don’t really know where the line between pragmatism and stupidity is. I thought the last contract we offered (4 years, $84 million) was beyond his value, or at the very top of his value.

So as fan, that’s as high as I would go, and I would go there unhappily. If I were the GM, with, presumably, more information and actual consequences for my decision, my attitude might be different.


Thanks for giving a clear and straight answer.

Again I also have no problem with 21 million if Rob has actually identified teams that might take him on at that price. If he hasn't, I'd rather just roll with THT just to send the message that our front office won't be held hostage. I get that this might have catastrophic consequences but I don't think we are winning with Dennis anyway so all we would be doing is giving New Orleans a better pick if we don't sign him and ourselves a cosmetically better record if we do.

It's telling though that some of those who have been ardent defenders of preserving the asset also place him at a similar value as those who wouldn't mind seeing the back of him.

If we all think he's worth closer to 15-16 million and Dennis wants 25... and Rob has shown the willingness to pay up to 21. (before the playoff fiasco)
I don't understand why it's considered automatically stupid or emotional not to want to pay him a price where we don't want to be tied to him for four years.

Is there an example or precedent of a team even being in this predicament where they are held hostage by a decent but overpriced player where they must either meet his demands... or go into the market with very little cap room? And did previous GMs just meet the demands of the player?

As someone who was critical of the price of the AD trade as well as the subsequent divesting of assets to attempt to acquire Kawhi without any concrete commitment from his camp... I feel the situation should never have happened to begin with but since we are here, I'm wondering if any GM in NBA history has ever backed themselves into a similar negotiating position?

I'd like to know... if a GM has knowingly overpaid a player by 20 or 40 million because they put themselves in a position where they had no other choice. I've seen GMs do it because they overvalued a player... but I'm not sure I've seen a situation where they paid 80 to 100 million for a 60 million dollar player because they spent all their assets and capspace and the player extorted them for the money.

If there is, I'd like to know about this example and how it turned out for both the player and team. Not being sarcastic or snarky... I truly would like to know how it went because it might be instructive.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:59 am    Post subject:

I recall hearing LA and Dennis have until the end of July to work out an extension before he hits free agency. Me thinks that if the $84 million extension was still on the table, Dennis and his representation would have taken it. I mean, he can’t be thinking the market will be that kind to him. He’s put himself in a bind letting it be known that LA made that offer (no reason for Rob to have let that leak).

If he does get all the way to free agency, that probably means he’s not on the team next year.
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