OFFICIAL GENERAL FREE AGENCY/TRADE THREAD (12/03/20 Updated List of Remaining 2020 Free Agents, p. 1)
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:52 am    Post subject:

Reds622 wrote:
bkt4208 wrote:
Reds622 wrote:
bkt4208 wrote:
The thing with Lowry is all about whether Toronto is ready to move on from him. I think they are as they have been gradually moving to a Van-Fleet direction in that backcourt.

That means it will be where Kyle wants to go, and who would be interested.

If the 76ers lose to the Nets, and it continues to be because of the lack of scoring from Simmons; would they be interested like they were at the deadline?

Would the Heat (who would have the cap space) put all of their eggs in that basket as they too were reportedly in the mix at the deadline?

Lowry has made it clear he wants to get paid one last time. Having just turned 35, missing two dozen or so games and not making the playoffs for the first time in 7 years, he might want to try and get that payday (my guess is he is looking for 2/50 or 3/60- wanting 50 million guaranteed) as well as be in the championship hunt.

Who else would be interested? Boston? Don't think they can make it happen even if they find a taker for Walker.

Not sure how interested the Raptors would be in Schroder, but my guess is it would be among the better players they could get in a S&T.

As rare as double S&T's are this seems as though it fits. Toronto would want to get something for him and they need a PG, as Van Fleet is better playing off. Would that backcourt work?

If Lowry pushes wanting to come here (with us willing to give him that money to line up with LeBron's two years remaining) then I could certainly see it happening.

One thing for certain, it makes much more sense than most of the outlandish predictions on this board....


Toronto turned down Schroder for Lowry midseason. They would have had Schroder's bird rights.

Why would they trade for him now?

They won't.


I already answered that (read slower maybe)?

It was a different situation then. It was shocking to most on why the Raptors didn't trade him at the deadline. Most agreed it was foolish. Now they are not in the same boat to demand such a return, especially if Lowry pushes for the deal to be a certain team. And again, I ask what teams would he push for?

They are going to want something for him, and if the Lakers are one of the few teams that are willing to give him 50 guaranteed (and would most certainly need a DS trade to match) then it is doable.


If Lowry didn't want to come here at the deadline... why would he want to come here now?

Toronto would have accommodated him at the deadline if he pushed them to trade him to LA. Toronto is a first class organization who takes care of their players.

I think Lowry wanted to go to his preferred destination at the deadline... or go nowhere at all and hit FA.


If we can attach our first round pick then Raptors would definitely explore that. It does not have to be Schroder . It can be Kuz/KCP with that first pick. So instead of losing Lowry completely , they have a pick and movable contracts to work with in case another star is available. But Lowry is definitely the shot caller here. If he wants to be a Laker, those scenarios are win-win for everyone.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:07 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
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but in reality he just turned 35 and appears to be in decline. I can see why he would have helped us this season, if Lebron and Davis had been healthy. I'm not so sure that he would have provided much of anything going forward.


He would organize the offense in the way that LAL sorely needed with LBJ on and off the floor.

This feels like a similar argument last year with entertaining the idea of CP3. CP3s skills are a ton louder.

Lowry, otoh, is a lower USG PG, but at least plays smart, gets guys their shots in rhythm, and is a 2 way player.

People are freaking out about their decline, yet, they don't rely on their athleticism *that* much to make themselves positive players on the floor. This wasn't looked at clearly with CP3, even when I thought it was obvious. It's the same with Lowry.

He's hasn't really been a rim threat for about 8 years. But you bet LAL could have used his finishing ability, and basically being 40% from 3' to the 3pt line. That's high end/elite level shooting from all distances on the floor as a combination.


Okay, but I would say the same thing about Chris Paul. He would have helped this season, but I don't know that he would help going forward. I'd feel more confident about Paul, because even if he declines, he is starting from a much higher level. He is still likely to make the all-NBA team this year.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:19 am    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
What I don't understand is decimating the team for LBJ's window... and then suddenly stopping at THT. I mean you've already gotten rid of everyone... many who have become good NBA players... and THT becomes the line in the sand?


Thanks. That thought has been percolating in my head for some time, but I've never managed to articulate it.


I look at Caruso as a starter (defensive point guard) and THT as a sixth man (scorer and playmaker). We don’t want Caruso bringing the ball up the floor, that’s Lebron’s job, just defend the position, can even switch with KCP, and hit open shots. He needs to improve as a shooter, he has a full off-season, but I think he can fill that role.

Cost to keep both is likely less than $10 million, but it depends on the free agent market; e.g. more bigger names, less money available


It's possible that Caruso could improve as an offensive player, but he's 27. He is about as close to a zero on offense as you can get with someone who shoots 40% from three. I hope you're right, but I don't see how you could start the Caruso that we saw this season. As for THT, we keep expecting him to make a leap, but it hasn't come yet. I hope you're right about him, too.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:25 am    Post subject:

https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2021/06/who-will-cleveland-cavaliers-target-in-free-agency-this-offseason-hey-chris.html

Cavs targeting both Caruso and THT
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:32 am    Post subject:

Nash Vegas wrote:
https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2021/06/who-will-cleveland-cavaliers-target-in-free-agency-this-offseason-hey-chris.html

Cavs targeting both Caruso and THT

The Cavs are going to corner the market on sub-6'5 guards!!!
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:46 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:

<snip>
As for THT, we keep expecting him to make a leap, but it hasn't come yet. I hope you're right about him, too.


It would be a pity if we over-expectation the heck out of THT just the same way we did to Randle/Ingram etc.
All I'm expecting is that he follows an improvement trajectory similar to one of our many past picks viz. Russell, Ingram, Randle, Clarkson. Then in 3-4 years he will be a very good player, and likely a deserving starter. I expect no "leaps", just steady improvement.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:47 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
but in reality he just turned 35 and appears to be in decline. I can see why he would have helped us this season, if Lebron and Davis had been healthy. I'm not so sure that he would have provided much of anything going forward.


He would organize the offense in the way that LAL sorely needed with LBJ on and off the floor.

This feels like a similar argument last year with entertaining the idea of CP3. CP3s skills are a ton louder.

Lowry, otoh, is a lower USG PG, but at least plays smart, gets guys their shots in rhythm, and is a 2 way player.

People are freaking out about their decline, yet, they don't rely on their athleticism *that* much to make themselves positive players on the floor. This wasn't looked at clearly with CP3, even when I thought it was obvious. It's the same with Lowry.

He's hasn't really been a rim threat for about 8 years. But you bet LAL could have used his finishing ability, and basically being 40% from 3' to the 3pt line. That's high end/elite level shooting from all distances on the floor as a combination.


Okay, but I would say the same thing about Chris Paul. He would have helped this season, but I don't know that he would help going forward. I'd feel more confident about Paul, because even if he declines, he is starting from a much higher level. He is still likely to make the all-NBA team this year.


Who’s the allstar point guard in his athletic prime that you had in mind?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:49 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2021/06/who-will-cleveland-cavaliers-target-in-free-agency-this-offseason-hey-chris.html

Cavs targeting both Caruso and THT

The Cavs are going to corner the market on sub-6'5 guards!!!


Such a Cavs move to pay big money to role players when you’re like a decade away from contending.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:54 am    Post subject:

Nash Vegas wrote:
https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2021/06/who-will-cleveland-cavaliers-target-in-free-agency-this-offseason-hey-chris.html

Cavs targeting both Caruso and THT


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:55 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
What I don't understand is decimating the team for LBJ's window... and then suddenly stopping at THT. I mean you've already gotten rid of everyone... many who have become good NBA players... and THT becomes the line in the sand?


Thanks. That thought has been percolating in my head for some time, but I've never managed to articulate it.


I look at Caruso as a starter (defensive point guard) and THT as a sixth man (scorer and playmaker). We don’t want Caruso bringing the ball up the floor, that’s Lebron’s job, just defend the position, can even switch with KCP, and hit open shots. He needs to improve as a shooter, he has a full off-season, but I think he can fill that role.

Cost to keep both is likely less than $10 million, but it depends on the free agent market; e.g. more bigger names, less money available


It's possible that Caruso could improve as an offensive player, but he's 27. He is about as close to a zero on offense as you can get with someone who shoots 40% from three. I hope you're right, but I don't see how you could start the Caruso that we saw this season. As for THT, we keep expecting him to make a leap, but it hasn't come yet. I hope you're right about him, too.


I think AC has pretty much hit his ceiling. The spot up 3 point shooting is nice, but he takes so few 3s to be considered a 3 point threat. And when it came to this year's playoffs, his 40% regular season 3s dropped to 29%.

I get he's a great fit with LBJ. But when LBJ/AD were out, AC really did struggle a lot having to do more. That may be a present reality to consider, that at age 37, we won't always have all NBA level LBJ to rely upon.

THT, I still think he's 2 years away from being starter quality. Too many mistakes on defense and his 3 point shooting hurts.

This is why I wanted Dennis to work and there were flashes where it worked (when AD/LBJ was out) and flashes where it didn't. Going forward, whether it's him, or someone else, we need someone who can help carry the load for LBJ, not be CARRIED by LBJ.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:56 am    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2021/06/who-will-cleveland-cavaliers-target-in-free-agency-this-offseason-hey-chris.html

Cavs targeting both Caruso and THT

The Cavs are going to corner the market on sub-6'5 guards!!!


Such a Cavs move to pay big money to role players when you’re like a decade away from contending.


They won't. Sexton, Garland, they don't need it.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:58 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
but in reality he just turned 35 and appears to be in decline. I can see why he would have helped us this season, if Lebron and Davis had been healthy. I'm not so sure that he would have provided much of anything going forward.


He would organize the offense in the way that LAL sorely needed with LBJ on and off the floor.

This feels like a similar argument last year with entertaining the idea of CP3. CP3s skills are a ton louder.

Lowry, otoh, is a lower USG PG, but at least plays smart, gets guys their shots in rhythm, and is a 2 way player.

People are freaking out about their decline, yet, they don't rely on their athleticism *that* much to make themselves positive players on the floor. This wasn't looked at clearly with CP3, even when I thought it was obvious. It's the same with Lowry.

He's hasn't really been a rim threat for about 8 years. But you bet LAL could have used his finishing ability, and basically being 40% from 3' to the 3pt line. That's high end/elite level shooting from all distances on the floor as a combination.


Okay, but I would say the same thing about Chris Paul. He would have helped this season, but I don't know that he would help going forward. I'd feel more confident about Paul, because even if he declines, he is starting from a much higher level. He is still likely to make the all-NBA team this year.


And I'm pretty sure I answered the question back then too.

We look at talent differently. It's fine. But CP3 was tons more obvious as a better player.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:58 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2021/06/who-will-cleveland-cavaliers-target-in-free-agency-this-offseason-hey-chris.html

Cavs targeting both Caruso and THT

The Cavs are going to corner the market on sub-6'5 guards!!!


Such a Cavs move to pay big money to role players when you’re like a decade away from contending.


They won't. Sexton, Garland, they don't need it.


I've actually been looking at LNJ, Okoro as targets.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:02 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2021/06/who-will-cleveland-cavaliers-target-in-free-agency-this-offseason-hey-chris.html

Cavs targeting both Caruso and THT

The Cavs are going to corner the market on sub-6'5 guards!!!


Such a Cavs move to pay big money to role players when you’re like a decade away from contending.


They won't. Sexton, Garland, they don't need it.


I've actually been looking at LNJ, Okoro as targets.


LNJ would be awesome for us. What trade deal though? Kuz enough for them?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:06 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2021/06/who-will-cleveland-cavaliers-target-in-free-agency-this-offseason-hey-chris.html

Cavs targeting both Caruso and THT

The Cavs are going to corner the market on sub-6'5 guards!!!


Such a Cavs move to pay big money to role players when you’re like a decade away from contending.


They won't. Sexton, Garland, they don't need it.


I've actually been looking at LNJ, Okoro as targets.


LNJ would be awesome for us. What trade deal though? Kuz enough for them?


No.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:12 am    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
Who’s the allstar point guard in his athletic prime that you had in mind?


No one. We're talking about building a roster. There is no requirement that we have an all-star point guard in his athletic prime. The question is whether adding a 35-ish point guard (at the expense of some combination of younger role players) helps us going forward.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:13 am    Post subject:

So that Evan Massey dude is reporting that we are gonna go after T.J. McConnell in FA.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:14 am    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
So that Evan Massey dude is reporting that we are gonna go after T.J. McConnell in FA.


With Caruso on board, it makes no sense.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:15 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
What I don't understand is decimating the team for LBJ's window... and then suddenly stopping at THT. I mean you've already gotten rid of everyone... many who have become good NBA players... and THT becomes the line in the sand?


Thanks. That thought has been percolating in my head for some time, but I've never managed to articulate it.


I look at Caruso as a starter (defensive point guard) and THT as a sixth man (scorer and playmaker). We don’t want Caruso bringing the ball up the floor, that’s Lebron’s job, just defend the position, can even switch with KCP, and hit open shots. He needs to improve as a shooter, he has a full off-season, but I think he can fill that role.

Cost to keep both is likely less than $10 million, but it depends on the free agent market; e.g. more bigger names, less money available


It's possible that Caruso could improve as an offensive player, but he's 27. He is about as close to a zero on offense as you can get with someone who shoots 40% from three. I hope you're right, but I don't see how you could start the Caruso that we saw this season. As for THT, we keep expecting him to make a leap, but it hasn't come yet. I hope you're right about him, too.


I think AC has pretty much hit his ceiling. The spot up 3 point shooting is nice, but he takes so few 3s to be considered a 3 point threat. And when it came to this year's playoffs, his 40% regular season 3s dropped to 29%.

I get he's a great fit with LBJ. But when LBJ/AD were out, AC really did struggle a lot having to do more. That may be a present reality to consider, that at age 37, we won't always have all NBA level LBJ to rely upon.

THT, I still think he's 2 years away from being starter quality. Too many mistakes on defense and his 3 point shooting hurts.

This is why I wanted Dennis to work and there were flashes where it worked (when AD/LBJ was out) and flashes where it didn't. Going forward, whether it's him, or someone else, we need someone who can help carry the load for LBJ, not be CARRIED by LBJ.


You forgot to include that AC is probably one of the top guard defenders in the league.

Kind of important to point out when determining his value.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:16 am    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
So that Evan Massey dude is reporting that we are gonna go after T.J. McConnell in FA.


Incoming demands to start in 5...4...3...

Seriously though, fringe playmakers who know their role and value (close to 3:1 career assist to TO ratio on 22mins per). Yeah I dig it!


Last edited by vasashi17+ on Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:16 am    Post subject:

ThePageDude wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:

<snip>
As for THT, we keep expecting him to make a leap, but it hasn't come yet. I hope you're right about him, too.


It would be a pity if we over-expectation the heck out of THT just the same way we did to Randle/Ingram etc.
All I'm expecting is that he follows an improvement trajectory similar to one of our many past picks viz. Russell, Ingram, Randle, Clarkson. Then in 3-4 years he will be a very good player, and likely a deserving starter. I expect no "leaps", just steady improvement.


It's possible, though I don't know that 3-4 years fits with our plans. We shall see.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:29 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
So that Evan Massey dude is reporting that we are gonna go after T.J. McConnell in FA.


With Caruso on board, it makes no sense.

Massey likes to throws crap at the wall.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:34 am    Post subject:

Reds622 wrote:


If Lowry didn't want to come here at the deadline... why would he want to come here now?

Toronto would have accommodated him at the deadline if he pushed them to trade him to LA. Toronto is a first class organization who takes care of their players.

I think Lowry wanted to go to his preferred destination at the deadline... or go nowhere at all and hit FA.


I disagree with your assumption. I don't see why the Raptors would make a bad trade just to appease Lowry. It's not a given they won't resign him, and it's not a given they won't do a sign and trade with him next season.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:06 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
What I don't understand is decimating the team for LBJ's window... and then suddenly stopping at THT. I mean you've already gotten rid of everyone... many who have become good NBA players... and THT becomes the line in the sand?


Thanks. That thought has been percolating in my head for some time, but I've never managed to articulate it.


I look at Caruso as a starter (defensive point guard) and THT as a sixth man (scorer and playmaker). We don’t want Caruso bringing the ball up the floor, that’s Lebron’s job, just defend the position, can even switch with KCP, and hit open shots. He needs to improve as a shooter, he has a full off-season, but I think he can fill that role.

Cost to keep both is likely less than $10 million, but it depends on the free agent market; e.g. more bigger names, less money available


It's possible that Caruso could improve as an offensive player, but he's 27. He is about as close to a zero on offense as you can get with someone who shoots 40% from three. I hope you're right, but I don't see how you could start the Caruso that we saw this season. As for THT, we keep expecting him to make a leap, but it hasn't come yet. I hope you're right about him, too.


I think AC has pretty much hit his ceiling. The spot up 3 point shooting is nice, but he takes so few 3s to be considered a 3 point threat. And when it came to this year's playoffs, his 40% regular season 3s dropped to 29%.

I get he's a great fit with LBJ. But when LBJ/AD were out, AC really did struggle a lot having to do more. That may be a present reality to consider, that at age 37, we won't always have all NBA level LBJ to rely upon.

THT, I still think he's 2 years away from being starter quality. Too many mistakes on defense and his 3 point shooting hurts.

This is why I wanted Dennis to work and there were flashes where it worked (when AD/LBJ was out) and flashes where it didn't. Going forward, whether it's him, or someone else, we need someone who can help carry the load for LBJ, not be CARRIED by LBJ.


If the bolded is true it doesn't matter who we keep between DS and Caruso. We're a 1st round playoff out either way.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:10 pm    Post subject:

Reds622 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
What I don't understand is decimating the team for LBJ's window... and then suddenly stopping at THT. I mean you've already gotten rid of everyone... many who have become good NBA players... and THT becomes the line in the sand?


Thanks. That thought has been percolating in my head for some time, but I've never managed to articulate it.


I look at Caruso as a starter (defensive point guard) and THT as a sixth man (scorer and playmaker). We don’t want Caruso bringing the ball up the floor, that’s Lebron’s job, just defend the position, can even switch with KCP, and hit open shots. He needs to improve as a shooter, he has a full off-season, but I think he can fill that role.

Cost to keep both is likely less than $10 million, but it depends on the free agent market; e.g. more bigger names, less money available


It's possible that Caruso could improve as an offensive player, but he's 27. He is about as close to a zero on offense as you can get with someone who shoots 40% from three. I hope you're right, but I don't see how you could start the Caruso that we saw this season. As for THT, we keep expecting him to make a leap, but it hasn't come yet. I hope you're right about him, too.


I think AC has pretty much hit his ceiling. The spot up 3 point shooting is nice, but he takes so few 3s to be considered a 3 point threat. And when it came to this year's playoffs, his 40% regular season 3s dropped to 29%.

I get he's a great fit with LBJ. But when LBJ/AD were out, AC really did struggle a lot having to do more. That may be a present reality to consider, that at age 37, we won't always have all NBA level LBJ to rely upon.

THT, I still think he's 2 years away from being starter quality. Too many mistakes on defense and his 3 point shooting hurts.

This is why I wanted Dennis to work and there were flashes where it worked (when AD/LBJ was out) and flashes where it didn't. Going forward, whether it's him, or someone else, we need someone who can help carry the load for LBJ, not be CARRIED by LBJ.


You forgot to include that AC is probably one of the top guard defenders in the league.

Kind of important to point out when determining his value.


That goes without saying. That's why he's in the league. Not because of his offense, but his amazing defense.
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