Potential Rotations and Starting Lineup Discussion
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lakerican
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:31 pm    Post subject:

defense wrote:
Play Davis extended minutes at the 5 I don't think he lasts the season


FWIW, most of the AD injuries occurred @the perimeter. I hate everytime he goes to the outside running for a loose ball. That time he injured himself with the sideboard near the score table is still fresh in my mind. Or the one in this last playoff against the Sun's going for the frenzy running block. I can keep up refreshing your mind. He will last. Just earn his pay.
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Lakesh0wtime
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:09 am    Post subject:

Great article from the Athletic just this morning. Details on how we got Russ and our potential lineup.

https://theathletic.com/2848702/2021/09/27/superstar-shopping-lebron-russell-westbrook-and-the-lakers-summer-of-recruiting/?source=user_shared_article

“Since Davis arrived from New Orleans two years ago, the Lakers’ best lineups have featured him at center. With Westbrook aboard, sources said Davis has emerged as the expected starting center, clearing the way for a likely starting five of him, Westbrook, Ellington, Ariza and James, according to sources. Third-year guard Talen Horton-Tucker, a rising, young talent for the Lakers, is also expected to compete in camp for a possible starting role.“
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:22 am    Post subject:

Lakesh0wtime wrote:
Great article from the Athletic just this morning. Details on how we got Russ and our potential lineup.

https://theathletic.com/2848702/2021/09/27/superstar-shopping-lebron-russell-westbrook-and-the-lakers-summer-of-recruiting/?source=user_shared_article

“Since Davis arrived from New Orleans two years ago, the Lakers’ best lineups have featured him at center. With Westbrook aboard, sources said Davis has emerged as the expected starting center, clearing the way for a likely starting five of him, Westbrook, Ellington, Ariza and James, according to sources. Third-year guard Talen Horton-Tucker, a rising, young talent for the Lakers, is also expected to compete in camp for a possible starting role.“

Weird as both Vogel and Rob said the opposite it seemed, especially Rob. Talked a lot about the "2 bigs protecting the basket" philosiphy.

Wonder if this is true. AD at the 5 has a lot of positives, but I am not sure that it makes sense for this roster to start him there every game. I think sliding him to 5 as the game wears on makes the most sense, especially closing with him at the 5.

That lineup mentioned above (A shooter like Ellington at the 2, 3nD wing like Ariza) around the big 3, with AD at the 5, Bron at 4 etc. it makes a lot of sense as a closing lineup to me.
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hydrohead
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:16 am    Post subject:

So
Ariza
James
Davis
Westbrook
Ellington

Not surprised by the Ellington, as he may be their best shooter.
Ariza looks washed tho. interesting to see if he makes it in the starting rotation come end of camp.
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scout_0
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:08 am    Post subject:

I knew Ellington would start but don't know how I feel about Ariza. I would go with Bazemore but maybe they want Ariza because he can relief Bron from having to guard 4s all the time..


PG.Westbrook
SG.Ellington
SF.Bazemore
PF.LeBron
C.Davis

now imagine LeBron and Davis getting those defensive rebounds and out letting to Westbrook, Bazemore or Ellington running to the corners for easy 3s...


You will literally leave teams crying by the end of the first Q
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joeblow
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:09 am    Post subject:

Why would the starting lineup be decided before training camp? Did the Lakers learn all they need to know from Lebron's mini camp in Vegas, or is this mostly speculation on the reporter's part?
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:15 am    Post subject:

joeblow wrote:
Why would the starting lineup be decided before training camp? Did the Lakers learn all they need to know from Lebron's mini camp in Vegas, or is this mostly speculation on the reporter's part?


Nothing has been “decided” it is all speculation based on the writer’s or fans personal opinion of what should happen.

With this roster depth it will likely change multiple times as Vogel tinkers, players miss games and opponent matchups that favor the Lakers choosing to play big or small.
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hydrohead
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:26 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
joeblow wrote:
Why would the starting lineup be decided before training camp? Did the Lakers learn all they need to know from Lebron's mini camp in Vegas, or is this mostly speculation on the reporter's part?


Nothing has been “decided” it is all speculation based on the writer’s or fans personal opinion of what should happen.

With this roster depth it will likely change multiple times as Vogel tinkers, players miss games and opponent matchups that favor the Lakers choosing to play big or small.


Not quite. it’s according to the beat writer’s sources.
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Last edited by hydrohead on Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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joeblow
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:28 am    Post subject:

I missed the word "likely" in the article. It is all speculation except AD at center.
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hydrohead
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:29 am    Post subject:

joeblow wrote:
I missed the word "likely" in the article. It is all speculation except AD at center.

Yup. Absolutely could change.
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King Randle
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:34 am    Post subject:

hydrohead wrote:
joeblow wrote:
I missed the word "likely" in the article. It is all speculation except AD at center.

Yup. Absolutely could change.


Yup...and I would expect it too. I don't see Ellington starting...maybe the first few games....I don't see Ariza starting period.
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hydrohead
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:54 am    Post subject:

King Randle wrote:
hydrohead wrote:
joeblow wrote:
I missed the word "likely" in the article. It is all speculation except AD at center.

Yup. Absolutely could change.


Yup...and I would expect it too. I don't see Ellington starting...maybe the first few games....I don't see Ariza starting period.


Same, unless Vogel can turn Ellington in a KCP like chase/harassing defender, which is my pipe dream. Do miss KCP more than any of our losses.
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Big Shot Bob
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:54 am    Post subject:

I don't think the Lakers will go with this lineup, but I'd start:

Westbrook
Monk
Horton-Tucker
LeBron
AD

Monk's shooting helps floor spacing, and he and THT can get out and run with Westbrook. Very possible that Monk and THT end up as below average defenders this year, though, in which case you can't have them both in there... you'd probably need to replace one of them with Bazemore or Ariza.

Off the bench, I'd roll with:
Nunn
Bazemore
Ariza
Melo
Howard

Of those above, Ariza probably plays the least, and would maybe get more run playing at the 4 than the 5. Ellington, Rondo and DJ would be at the end of the bench for me... but all likely play an important role during the season when various guys go down with injuries.
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joeblow
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:06 am    Post subject:

I suppose the logic for Ellington as a starter is that two playmakers in Lebron and Westbrook will benefit from having the best outside shooter on the team alongside them.
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textbook
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:16 am    Post subject:

Ellington is one of the best shooters in the NBA at a high volume. Of course he is going to start. WE NEED shooting. That's a no brainer. I don't know how some of you think he will not even be in the rotation.

Ariza is a proven vet and a defender. However, I'm not sure he wins the job by end of training camp. My (just a fan) opinion on how it will all play out.

WB
Ellington
THT
Lebron
Davis (depending on match up. If it's against Denver, Howard or DJ start)

Nunn
Bazemore
Ariza
Carmelo
Howard/DJ (I think they will load manage dwight some this year).

Rondo, Monk, Reeves sit. Only shake up might be Monk at 2 and Ariza sitting at first to load manage him as well.
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King Randle
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:18 am    Post subject:

joeblow wrote:
I suppose the logic for Ellington as a starter is that two playmakers in Lebron and Westbrook will benefit from having the best outside shooter on the team alongside them.


Sure on paper....but he's never been a proven reliable 3-point shooter on a team competing for a title...too one dimensional for me....that's why I hope he gets D-up in practice so we have more athleticism in THT, Baze and Monk. If he proves me wrong then obviously I'll pull for him. I just don't see it.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:34 am    Post subject:

hydrohead wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
joeblow wrote:
Why would the starting lineup be decided before training camp? Did the Lakers learn all they need to know from Lebron's mini camp in Vegas, or is this mostly speculation on the reporter's part?


Nothing has been “decided” it is all speculation based on the writer’s or fans personal opinion of what should happen.

With this roster depth it will likely change multiple times as Vogel tinkers, players miss games and opponent matchups that favor the Lakers choosing to play big or small.


Not quite. it’s according to the beat writer’s sources.


“sources” always have a lot to say. I’ll wait until they announce the starting lineups game one.

And honestly, every game afterward as the lineups a change as the player chemistry builds and coaches do their thing. JMO but I can not see Ariza and/ or Ellington being consistent season long starters.

Going to be interesting be interesting to see how this roster juggles roles and mpg.
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Car54
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:57 am    Post subject:

hydrohead wrote:
King Randle wrote:
hydrohead wrote:
joeblow wrote:
I missed the word "likely" in the article. It is all speculation except AD at center.

Yup. Absolutely could change.


Yup...and I would expect it too. I don't see Ellington starting...maybe the first few games....I don't see Ariza starting period.


Same, unless Vogel can turn Ellington in a KCP like chase/harassing defender, which is my pipe dream. Do miss KCP more than any of our losses.


I’m hoping the coaching staff prioritize offense over defense when it comes to SG. We don’t need 5 good defenders in the starting lineup. We offensive fits to make this work.
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:23 am    Post subject:

Car54 wrote:
hydrohead wrote:
King Randle wrote:
hydrohead wrote:
joeblow wrote:
I missed the word "likely" in the article. It is all speculation except AD at center.

Yup. Absolutely could change.


Yup...and I would expect it too. I don't see Ellington starting...maybe the first few games....I don't see Ariza starting period.


Same, unless Vogel can turn Ellington in a KCP like chase/harassing defender, which is my pipe dream. Do miss KCP more than any of our losses.


I’m hoping the coaching staff prioritize offense over defense when it comes to SG. We don’t need 5 good defenders in the starting lineup. We offensive fits to make this work.


Other then Davis, who are you counting as “good defenders” in the starting lineup? And which starting lineup?

Consistent effort is needed on defense. Not occasional effort. Especially chasing the leagues perimeter scorers on a nightly basis.

Prefer defense as the focus and highest priority. Let that generate the break and easy scores. In half court sets, if they can’t figure out a way to be efficient with three elite players like WB, Davis and James… they don’t deserve to win.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:10 am    Post subject:

Car54 wrote:
hydrohead wrote:
King Randle wrote:
hydrohead wrote:
joeblow wrote:
I missed the word "likely" in the article. It is all speculation except AD at center.

Yup. Absolutely could change.


Yup...and I would expect it too. I don't see Ellington starting...maybe the first few games....I don't see Ariza starting period.


Same, unless Vogel can turn Ellington in a KCP like chase/harassing defender, which is my pipe dream. Do miss KCP more than any of our losses.


I’m hoping the coaching staff prioritize offense over defense when it comes to SG. We don’t need 5 good defenders in the starting lineup. We offensive fits to make this work.



They def will.

Thats why we were trying to get Hield.

The Westbrook experiment would fail without a high volume 3 pt shooter next to him and AD at center.
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scout_0
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:28 am    Post subject:

MjNG why you deleting your post? seeing too many holes in your argument?
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BandwagonLBJhopper
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:50 pm    Post subject:

I'm still hoping Monk blows up in camp and earns a starting spot. His athleticism and shooting potential could be really dynamic, he is an underrated passer/playmaker as well still on the road to his prime.

Vogel already showed if you ball out, he will play you. Remember he gave THT some early time even in playoff games.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:54 pm    Post subject:

BandwagonLBJhopper wrote:
I'm still hoping Monk blows up in camp and earns a starting spot. His athleticism and shooting potential could be really dynamic, he is an underrated passer/playmaker as well still on the road to his prime.

Vogel already showed if you ball out, he will play you. Remember he gave THT some early time even in playoff games.


Imo he’s better suited for that Clarkson 6th man role, quick strike offense.

We will see how it plays out.
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:26 pm    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
joeblow wrote:
Why would the starting lineup be decided before training camp? Did the Lakers learn all they need to know from Lebron's mini camp in Vegas, or is this mostly speculation on the reporter's part?


Nothing has been “decided” it is all speculation based on the writer’s or fans personal opinion of what should happen.


The article says the information is "according to sources."

Theoretically, Vogel himself could have told the reporter that he was pretty sure he was going to start those 5 guys. So just because he uses the word "likely" that doesn't mean he's speculating.

However, the reporter doesn't give us any clues who the sources are and how reliable the information is, so the value of the information depends on the value and reliability you place on the reporter. He's from a good publication, so I suspect he has some genuine basis for the information.


Last edited by activeverb on Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Car54
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:36 pm    Post subject:

BandwagonLBJhopper wrote:
I'm still hoping Monk blows up in camp and earns a starting spot. His athleticism and shooting potential could be really dynamic, he is an underrated passer/playmaker as well still on the road to his prime.

Vogel already showed if you ball out, he will play you. Remember he gave THT some early time even in playoff games.


He’s my other choice at SG. Him and Ellington showed the ability to hit tough 3 pointers
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