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| Who is the superior basketball mind? |
| Jeanie Buss |
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50% |
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| Jim Buss |
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50% |
[ 32 ] |
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| Total Votes : 64 |
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dont_be_a_wuss
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 Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| I guess I’m oversimplifying things but in my head it’s: championship vs MozDeng. I could only vote Jeannie |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | I guess I’m oversimplifying things but in my head it’s: championship vs MozDeng. I could only vote Jeannie |
Jim’s championships don’t count?
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dont_be_a_wuss
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | I guess I’m oversimplifying things but in my head it’s: championship vs MozDeng. I could only vote Jeannie |
Jim’s championships don’t count? |
I don’t credit him with any championships lol |
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dabask11
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | I guess I’m oversimplifying things but in my head it’s: championship vs MozDeng. I could only vote Jeannie |
Jim’s championships don’t count? |
I don’t credit him with any championships lol |
I don't credit jeanie for the last championship either lol, especially after creating the most disappointing laker season of all time less than 2 years from the title. |
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dont_be_a_wuss
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| dabask11 wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | I guess I’m oversimplifying things but in my head it’s: championship vs MozDeng. I could only vote Jeannie |
Jim’s championships don’t count? |
I don’t credit him with any championships lol |
I don't credit jeanie for the last championship either lol, especially after creating the most disappointing laker season of all time less than 2 years from the title. |
Kurt Rambis deserves more credit for the the 2009-2010 championships than Jim Buss does. |
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dabask11
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | dabask11 wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | I guess I’m oversimplifying things but in my head it’s: championship vs MozDeng. I could only vote Jeannie |
Jim’s championships don’t count? |
I don’t credit him with any championships lol |
I don't credit jeanie for the last championship either lol, especially after creating the most disappointing laker season of all time less than 2 years from the title. |
Kurt Rambis deserves more credit for the the 2009-2010 championships than Jim Buss does. |
Kurt Rambis was the coach of the t-wolves in 2009, so he doesn't get credit for the 2010 title over Jim.
Jim at least holds himself accountable, so he gets some credit.
Can't say the same about jeanie, especially after emplay's article today. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 6:18 am Post subject: |
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I'm come to the position where if the owners are legit, it wouldn't be awful if the Buss family cashed in. I think it would be win-win.
On Jim vs Jeanie, it's hard to say because Jim's success all came with Dr Buss and Mitch, who was in place and trained by Jerry West. When Dr Buss got sick and passed away that's when Jim really had authority and some of his moves were incredibly bad. Now add that Mitch can't draw anyone as a salesman, he was maybe the best at trades but the worst at FAs change was needed.
We just went a 180. We got a great conman/salesman in Rob, and Jeanie's team with Rambi and her brothers are very tight knit, so the drama in the FO is gone. But there's been so many mistakes as well, on Jeanie's watch. Yes she won a title, but she also was in power while all the Lakers assets and title team got screwed up within 12 months. And all of it could have been avoided had Jeanie hired someone more NBA executive/FO competent than Pelinka. Ugh. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 6:29 am Post subject: |
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We should have opened the coffers for Masai.
But, not sure he would want to work in this toxic environment where he's seen as an outsider, and a threat to all the nepotistic staff who fear being replaced by an actual professional.
$ wise, would they open it up for someone like him? Clearly not.
Just a group that is insular, and scared to bring in outsiders as it would probably show how many nepotistic/"I'm a friend of [insert Showtime/Kobe]" hirings there are. |
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SGV-Laker fan
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Joined: 23 May 2013
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 6:34 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | We should have opened the coffers for Masai.
But, not sure he would want to work in this toxic environment where he's seen as an outsider, and a threat to all the nepotistic staff who fear being replaced by an actual professional.
$ wise, would they open it up for someone like him? Clearly not.
Just a group that is insular, and scared to bring in outsiders as it would probably show how many nepotistic/"I'm a friend of [insert Showtime/Kobe]" hirings there are. |
the last line is so true with Jeannie Buss. she and her friends are too scare to bring anyone with competency into the front office. why would they? the Rambii would lose the shadow owner duties right off the bat and probably won't even have a place in the new front office. the new regime will shut off Magic and Phil completely, will most likely demand Jeannie Buss to be hands off before he signs up. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 6:34 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | We should have opened the coffers for Masai.
But, not sure he would want to work in this toxic environment where he's seen as an outsider, and a threat to all the nepotistic staff who fear being replaced by an actual professional.
$ wise, would they open it up for someone like him? Clearly not.
Just a group that is insular, and scared to bring in outsiders as it would probably show how many nepotistic/"I'm a friend of [insert Showtime/Kobe]" hirings there are. |
I just think about where the Lakers were 20 months ago. They had Bron, AD, Kuzma, Caruso, KCP, THT. Older vets like Danny Green, Rondo, Howard and Kieff. They just won a title. They had the 2020 and 2021 draft picks. Full MLE to work with. I mean if they just show some loyalty there, make some good management moves, we're sitting in the playoffs right now with a healthy AD and healthy Lebron. We actually had a healthy Lebron and AD this year in April/May. And we couldn't even get into the play ins. This is 100% a management problem/decision, where they chose to abandon the dudes that won you a title. Pelinka just scapegoats Vogel and Westbrook, when reality is he's the one (with the other advisors in the FO) who made all these changes. It's a crime that a healthy Lebron and AD are sitting out the playoffs because both dudes were ready to play in April 2022. I know some doubt if AD would stay healthy, but he definitely was ready to finish out the season.
Speaking of Toronto, they have been very consistent in keeping their pieces in tact and slowly making changes around them. That's the thing Pelinka failed at. He kept trying to make massive changes each year. |
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ThePageDude
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Joined: 25 Jul 2002
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 6:40 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: |
<snip>
I just think about where the Lakers were 20 months ago. They had Bron, AD, Kuzma, Caruso, KCP, THT. Older vets like Danny Green, Rondo, Howard and Kieff. They just won a title. They had the 2020 and 2021 draft picks. Full MLE to work with. I mean if they just show some loyalty there, make some good management moves, we're sitting in the playoffs right now with a healthy AD and healthy Lebron. We actually had a healthy Lebron and AD this year in April/May. And we couldn't even get into the play ins. This is 100% a management problem/decision, where they chose to abandon the dudes that won you a title. Pelinka just scapegoats Vogel and Westbrook, when reality is he's the one (with the other advisors in the FO) who made all these changes. It's a crime that a healthy Lebron and AD are sitting out the playoffs because both dudes were ready to play in April 2022. I know some doubt if AD would stay healthy, but he definitely was ready to finish out the season.
Speaking of Toronto, they have been very consistent in keeping their pieces in tact and slowly making changes around them. That's the thing Pelinka failed at. He kept trying to make massive changes each year. |
Exactly. The loss in flexibility and options has been precipitous, just a fall off a cliff. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 6:45 am Post subject: |
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I think Pelinka tries too hard to "wow" people with big moves each summer.
I agree with you. Probably not sexy just bringing back the 2020 core team, so let's go out and bring on Dennis/Trezz to shake things up. In retrospect, I would die to have last year's team over this one's, but would die even more for that 2020 core team.
Then in 2021, he trades for Russ. You can blame the Rasputins whispering in his years but he and Jeanie ultimately signed off on the trade. I don't like his mindset b/c you are constantly churning over 80%+ of the roster each year. No way to establish any continuity. |
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danzag
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Joined: 28 Apr 2013
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Location: Brazil
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | We should have opened the coffers for Masai.
But, not sure he would want to work in this toxic environment where he's seen as an outsider, and a threat to all the nepotistic staff who fear being replaced by an actual professional.
$ wise, would they open it up for someone like him? Clearly not.
Just a group that is insular, and scared to bring in outsiders as it would probably show how many nepotistic/"I'm a friend of [insert Showtime/Kobe]" hirings there are. |
I just think about where the Lakers were 20 months ago. They had Bron, AD, Kuzma, Caruso, KCP, THT. Older vets like Danny Green, Rondo, Howard and Kieff. They just won a title. They had the 2020 and 2021 draft picks. Full MLE to work with. I mean if they just show some loyalty there, make some good management moves, we're sitting in the playoffs right now with a healthy AD and healthy Lebron. We actually had a healthy Lebron and AD this year in April/May. And we couldn't even get into the play ins. This is 100% a management problem/decision, where they chose to abandon the dudes that won you a title. Pelinka just scapegoats Vogel and Westbrook, when reality is he's the one (with the other advisors in the FO) who made all these changes. It's a crime that a healthy Lebron and AD are sitting out the playoffs because both dudes were ready to play in April 2022. I know some doubt if AD would stay healthy, but he definitely was ready to finish out the season.
Speaking of Toronto, they have been very consistent in keeping their pieces in tact and slowly making changes around them. That's the thing Pelinka failed at. He kept trying to make massive changes each year. |
Agree.
We have no continuity of consistency.
You don't have to make big moves every damn summer. We had a great roster, no reason to destroy it after a winning a championship. |
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ThePageDude
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | I think Pelinka tries too hard to "wow" people with big moves each summer.
I agree with you. Probably not sexy just bringing back the 2020 core team, so let's go out and bring on Dennis/Trezz to shake things up. In retrospect, I would die to have last year's team over this one's, but would die even more for that 2020 core team.
Then in 2021, he trades for Russ. You can blame the Rasputins whispering in his years but he and Jeanie ultimately signed off on the trade. I don't like his mindset b/c you are constantly churning over 80%+ of the roster each year. No way to establish any continuity. |
I agree, but there is a greater sin than turning over your roster, and that sin is painting yourself into a corner. FO has been guilty of both. So now even if they want to turn over the roster (and there's a good argument to be made that the Lakers perhaps should do so given LBJ's age, AD's injuries and Westbrook's haplessness), all they'll likely get back will be dimes on the dollar or vet-mins. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 6:51 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I agree with you. Probably not sexy just bringing back the 2020 core team, so let's go out and bring on Dennis/Trezz to shake things up. |
He was asked about it. I recall right after the trade, he was asked about team chemistry, Danny Green etc. Rondo as well. He said he had mamba mentality and wanted to keep getting better each offseason. That's why he didn't want to rest.
Looking back, it's clear he had no idea how to run a basketball team and needed to learn from mistakes. Which is ok if you don't have AD/Lebron needing to try and win a title each year. The window is short. Now it may be closed, unfortunately.
I still can overlook stuff, but the fact that he scapegoats everyone else - from Magic, Klutch, coach Vogel, etc. it really makes it obvious he's good at screwing up and blaming others. Jeanie needs to figure this out ASAP. I think even Lebron knows the Lakers are needing someone more qualified and capable, hence his tweets over the all-star break about Presti.
Last edited by wolfpaclaker on Thu Apr 28, 2022 6:54 am; edited 2 times in total |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 6:51 am Post subject: |
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| To me it's simple. Jeanie/Rob ultimately signed off on Russ's trade b/c he is a "big name" that would shake things up. Rather than relying on the elite role players that made our 2020 ring happen (AC/KCP/Kuz), they went for the shiny new object. Harkens back to the Lakers going with Lonzo with the #2 pick too. LA kid, will be a good story, so let's pick him. |
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dont_be_a_wuss
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 7:11 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | I think Pelinka tries too hard to "wow" people with big moves each summer.
I agree with you. Probably not sexy just bringing back the 2020 core team, so let's go out and bring on Dennis/Trezz to shake things up. In retrospect, I would die to have last year's team over this one's, but would die even more for that 2020 core team.
Then in 2021, he trades for Russ. You can blame the Rasputins whispering in his years but he and Jeanie ultimately signed off on the trade. I don't like his mindset b/c you are constantly churning over 80%+ of the roster each year. No way to establish any continuity. |
Wasn’t one of his first moves to hire Kim Kardashians “ass guru” as strength and conditioning coach? |
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 7:12 am Post subject: |
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| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | I guess I’m oversimplifying things but in my head it’s: championship vs MozDeng. I could only vote Jeannie |
Jim’s championships don’t count? |
I don’t credit him with any championships lol |
Say you are biased without saying you are biased. Of course you are wrong no matter.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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SGV-Laker fan
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| Jeannie Buss' latest jab on Klutch will not bolt well for the future of the team. this isn't the first time she and her inner circle has done this. who wants to work with the Lakers when the owner will throw you under the bus any time when things are going your way? Jeannie's only title (the bubble title) was gift wrapped by LeBron's desire to play in LA. it had NOTHING to do with Jeannie Buss and her ability to court him back in summer of 2018. LeBron led to Klutch and then AD, all these were just fall on lap of Jeannie Buss, she DOES NOT deserve an ounce of credit. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Quote: | | I agree with you. Probably not sexy just bringing back the 2020 core team, so let's go out and bring on Dennis/Trezz to shake things up. |
He was asked about it. I recall right after the trade, he was asked about team chemistry, Danny Green etc. Rondo as well. He said he had mamba mentality and wanted to keep getting better each offseason. That's why he didn't want to rest.
Looking back, it's clear he had no idea how to run a basketball team and needed to learn from mistakes. Which is ok if you don't have AD/Lebron needing to try and win a title each year. The window is short. Now it may be closed, unfortunately.
I still can overlook stuff, but the fact that he scapegoats everyone else - from Magic, Klutch, coach Vogel, etc. it really makes it obvious he's good at screwing up and blaming others. Jeanie needs to figure this out ASAP. I think even Lebron knows the Lakers are needing someone more qualified and capable, hence his tweets over the all-star break about Presti. |
Here's the infuriating part.
Lakers don't want to take a gamble on an up and comer assistant who hasn't been a championship head coach (notwithstanding how they screwed Lue). So we pass on guys like Nurse (when he started on the Raps), Udoka, Finch, Jenkins, etc.
But we're more than happy to hand over the GM position to Kobe's agent? He has no prior GM experience, and has a lot of enemies from other GMs that he was ruthless against.
This is so sad to see. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 7:29 am Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | Jeannie Buss' latest jab on Klutch will not bolt well for the future of the team. this isn't the first time she and her inner circle has done this. who wants to work with the Lakers when the owner will throw you under the bus any time when things are going your way? Jeannie's only title (the bubble title) was gift wrapped by LeBron's desire to play in LA. it had NOTHING to do with Jeannie Buss and her ability to court him back in summer of 2018. LeBron led to Klutch and then AD, all these were just fall on lap of Jeannie Buss, she DOES NOT deserve an ounce of credit. |
It is something that will likely be remembered in NBA circles, throwing your star under the bus isn’t normal.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | Jeannie Buss' latest jab on Klutch will not bolt well for the future of the team. this isn't the first time she and her inner circle has done this. who wants to work with the Lakers when the owner will throw you under the bus any time when things are going your way? Jeannie's only title (the bubble title) was gift wrapped by LeBron's desire to play in LA. it had NOTHING to do with Jeannie Buss and her ability to court him back in summer of 2018. LeBron led to Klutch and then AD, all these were just fall on lap of Jeannie Buss, she DOES NOT deserve an ounce of credit. |
It is something that will likely be remembered in NBA circles, throwing your star under the bus isn’t normal. |
Yup. This is terrible, especially when you are looking to replace one (LBJ) with 2 more superstars in 2023-25. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | To me it's simple. Jeanie/Rob ultimately signed off on Russ's trade b/c he is a "big name" that would shake things up. Rather than relying on the elite role players that made our 2020 ring happen (AC/KCP/Kuz), they went for the shiny new object. Harkens back to the Lakers going with Lonzo with the #2 pick too. LA kid, will be a good story, so let's pick him. |
That's basically right, but I look at it a little differently. Yeah, I know I'm like a broken record, but here goes again. What we did in the summer of 2021 (Westbrook) is what we wanted to do in the summers of 2018 (George) and 2019 (Leonard). Westbrook was not an aberration. Westbrook was a logical (albeit ill-conceived) continuation of the same basic philosophy that had been in place since Jeanie ousted Jim and Mitch, and certainly that had been in place ever since Lebron and Rich Paul entered the scene.
Those "elite role players" never had a place in that philosophy. If Leonard had signed with us in the summer of 2019, they would have been gone sooner or later, because Jeanie had a limit to how much she was going to spend in luxury tax.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | To me it's simple. Jeanie/Rob ultimately signed off on Russ's trade b/c he is a "big name" that would shake things up. Rather than relying on the elite role players that made our 2020 ring happen (AC/KCP/Kuz), they went for the shiny new object. Harkens back to the Lakers going with Lonzo with the #2 pick too. LA kid, will be a good story, so let's pick him. |
That's basically right, but I look at it a little differently. Yeah, I know I'm like a broken record, but here goes again. What we did in the summer of 2021 (Westbrook) is what we wanted to do in the summers of 2018 (George) and 2019 (Leonard). Westbrook was not an aberration. Westbrook was a logical (albeit ill-conceived) continuation of the same basic philosophy that had been in place since Jeanie ousted Jim and Mitch, and certainly that had been in place ever since Lebron and Rich Paul entered the scene.
Those "elite role players" never had a place in that philosophy. If Leonard had signed with us in the summer of 2019, they would have been gone sooner or later, because Jeanie had a limit to how much she was going to spend in luxury tax. |
You've been proven to be 100% right in this.
We got a little fortunate Kawhi misled them and then bailed so they had to go out and get some C level FAs like KCP/Danny Green so that then allowed them to actually build a team with some continuity and team chemistry. AD coming in helped a great deal. Vogel coming in was the perfect timing for that as it was needed a defensive mindset with a group that was put together with a lot of role players after the big 3 pursuit failed.
I'm just appreciative that we could easily have ended the Lebron/AD/Klutch merger with 0 titles. How bad does this all look now if we don't win a title in 2020. My goodness. |
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Laker's Fan
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Joined: 27 Jun 2002
Posts: 12861
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | To me it's simple. Jeanie/Rob ultimately signed off on Russ's trade b/c he is a "big name" that would shake things up. Rather than relying on the elite role players that made our 2020 ring happen (AC/KCP/Kuz), they went for the shiny new object. Harkens back to the Lakers going with Lonzo with the #2 pick too. LA kid, will be a good story, so let's pick him. |
That's basically right, but I look at it a little differently. Yeah, I know I'm like a broken record, but here goes again. What we did in the summer of 2021 (Westbrook) is what we wanted to do in the summers of 2018 (George) and 2019 (Leonard). Westbrook was not an aberration. Westbrook was a logical (albeit ill-conceived) continuation of the same basic philosophy that had been in place since Jeanie ousted Jim and Mitch, and certainly that had been in place ever since Lebron and Rich Paul entered the scene.
Those "elite role players" never had a place in that philosophy. If Leonard had signed with us in the summer of 2019, they would have been gone sooner or later, because Jeanie had a limit to how much she was going to spend in luxury tax. |
You've been proven to be 100% right in this.
We got a little fortunate Kawhi misled them and then bailed so they had to go out and get some C level FAs like KCP/Danny Green so that then allowed them to actually build a team with some continuity and team chemistry. AD coming in helped a great deal. Vogel coming in was the perfect timing for that as it was needed a defensive mindset with a group that was put together with a lot of role players after the big 3 pursuit failed.
I'm just appreciative that we could easily have ended the Lebron/AD/Klutch merger with 0 titles. How bad does this all look now if we don't win a title in 2020. My goodness. |
The one thing I would tack onto this is the star model seems to be more about marketing than basketball, which isn’t totally surprising given that’s Jeanie’s background. She has gone that direction off the court too (Magic, Phil, Pelinka, Kidd). In many ways, this year’s team was the panicle of her philosophy. Lots of brand recognition.
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