Superteams Aren't Faring Well This Season
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KindCrippler2000
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2022 9:47 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Cuz now u can find players like Poole or Bane in the late 1st rounds and literally get the same production that third stars give you. To add insult to injury, they weren't lottery selections, which just shows the level of talent that is out there. Don't even get me started on Herb Jones, a guy who should be making the all-NBA defensive team as a rookie. Teams really need, at most, 2 solid stars but might be able to get away with 1 if they have a lot depth and 3 and D wings (see Mavs). Another reason "Superteams" don't thrive today because the 3pt shot is the biggest equalizer. Look at what the Nuggets did to the Clippers in the bubble. Kawhi and PG13 got Jamal Murray'd.


But these are the exceptions, not the rule. Most players in that range don't pan out at that level.

But, the Lakers did draft very well late in the 1st and in the 2nd. So that's a loss.


Well, Lakers were linked to bane and would have drafted him if they had the pick. Given their drafting history, I would expect more hits than misses. Seems like there are at least 1-2 in every draft these days. Josh Hart went 30th, Kyle Kuzma 27th, Jalen Brunson 33th, etc. Then you have undrafted dudes like Alvarado, DFS, Vanvleet, Reaves, Caruso, Duncan Robinson, etc. Not third stars but still rotation players and lockdown defenders on contending teams.
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ahaider
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2022 10:27 am    Post subject:

You could make the case the Suns have a big 3 in Ayton, Booker & CP3.

I don’t share the sentiments that big 3’s don’t work, I believe they can but it all comes down to cost. I don’t think three franchise players taking 90% of your cap is a pathway to a championship any longer. I think 3 guys taking 70% is successful. The way to achieve that is you have two signed and you hit on the draft and keep that third star on a rookie contract a la Jordan Poole or Ayton.
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LakesGnrLake
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2022 10:38 am    Post subject:

ahaider wrote:
You could make the case the Suns have a big 3 in Ayton, Booker & CP3.

I don’t share the sentiments that big 3’s don’t work, I believe they can but it all comes down to cost. I don’t think three franchise players taking 90% of your cap is a pathway to a championship any longer. I think 3 guys taking 70% is successful. The way to achieve that is you have two signed and you hit on the draft and keep that third star on a rookie contract a la Jordan Poole or Ayton.


Even 70% is most likely too much, that big 3 you speak of takes less than 50% of the salary cap. The Warriors 4 players are barely going over 50% of the cap. Mavs top 3 are 30% of the cap. The Nets top 3 are 50%, and they get criticized for going all in on stars too. You just can't be having half of your starting lineup taking away more than half your salary cap these days and expect a deep run. You need a balanced roster, just adding fat "star" contracts to your team isn't getting you as deep as it used to.
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bluehill
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2022 11:00 am    Post subject:

LakesGnrLake wrote:
ahaider wrote:
You could make the case the Suns have a big 3 in Ayton, Booker & CP3.

I don’t share the sentiments that big 3’s don’t work, I believe they can but it all comes down to cost. I don’t think three franchise players taking 90% of your cap is a pathway to a championship any longer. I think 3 guys taking 70% is successful. The way to achieve that is you have two signed and you hit on the draft and keep that third star on a rookie contract a la Jordan Poole or Ayton.


Even 70% is most likely too much, that big 3 you speak of takes less than 50% of the salary cap. The Warriors 4 players are barely going over 50% of the cap. Mavs top 3 are 30% of the cap. The Nets top 3 are 50%, and they get criticized for going all in on stars too. You just can't be having half of your starting lineup taking away more than half your salary cap these days and expect a deep run. You need a balanced roster, just adding fat "star" contracts to your team isn't getting you as deep as it used to.


I agree with your underlying point. Those other teams aren't in as a good a position cap wise, though.

NBA Team Salary Cap Tracker

Max contracts range from 25% - 35% of the salary cap, so adding 2 or 3 max players can take up most to all of your cap.
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Halflife
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2022 12:00 pm    Post subject:

with marcus smart being elite at his role do they have a big 3?
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ahaider
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2022 1:27 pm    Post subject:

LakesGnrLake wrote:
ahaider wrote:
You could make the case the Suns have a big 3 in Ayton, Booker & CP3.

I don’t share the sentiments that big 3’s don’t work, I believe they can but it all comes down to cost. I don’t think three franchise players taking 90% of your cap is a pathway to a championship any longer. I think 3 guys taking 70% is successful. The way to achieve that is you have two signed and you hit on the draft and keep that third star on a rookie contract a la Jordan Poole or Ayton.


Even 70% is most likely too much, that big 3 you speak of takes less than 50% of the salary cap. The Warriors 4 players are barely going over 50% of the cap. Mavs top 3 are 30% of the cap. The Nets top 3 are 50%, and they get criticized for going all in on stars too. You just can't be having half of your starting lineup taking away more than half your salary cap these days and expect a deep run. You need a balanced roster, just adding fat "star" contracts to your team isn't getting you as deep as it used to.


Not to nitpick but I believe GSW big 3 (Steph, Klay, Draymond) = 58.58% of the cap. If you add Wiggins, you're at 75.64% of the cap. Their real saving grace is that Jordan Poole is 1.17% of the cap.

Imo J-Poole is the highest ROI player in the league currently given his production.

So if we use (Klay,Steph,J Poole) you're at 60%.

Point being 5 super quality players at 76% of the cap.

Westbrook, Lebron & AD = 75% of of our cap space.


I'm using https://www.spotrac.com/nba/los-angeles-lakers/cap/2021/ for number crunching.



Not to make this about RW, but my issue with the criticism he gets is it's not his fault he took the max contract offered to him when he was an MVP. It's in Rob not understanding that the expectations for him would be to have his best season yet in a Lakers uniform in order to slightly ROI+ on the trade. WB took the bullets for RP inability to understand return on investment. Bizarre because I'm assuming RP probably has a good retirement fund.


Long story short - FRP's are the best way to make up the difference on overpaying for veteran players but we jettisoned too many of those on the AD trade.

For us moving forward, to be a contender with three guys taking up that much space it would require Lebron James to be in his prime and at the state of best player in the world. That's not reality.
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