What Are the Worst All Time Lakers Trades?
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J.C. Smith
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 10:05 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Pau began to pout a year later, moreso than then. He didn't take to Mike Brown, as it was a big change from Phil and the system the Lakers won rings with, and Pau was more a #3 with Mike Brown, with a big focus on Bynum as a #2. This is the year I'm talking about.


You are correct there. I had the year mixed up. I do recall Pau making some comments though about the trade but he was generally a professional and still putting up good numbers. It was the following year under D'antoni where he started dropping off noticeably.
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 10:27 am    Post subject:

J.C. Smith wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Pau began to pout a year later, moreso than then. He didn't take to Mike Brown, as it was a big change from Phil and the system the Lakers won rings with, and Pau was more a #3 with Mike Brown, with a big focus on Bynum as a #2. This is the year I'm talking about.


You are correct there. I had the year mixed up. I do recall Pau making some comments though about the trade but he was generally a professional and still putting up good numbers. It was the following year under D'antoni where he started dropping off noticeably.


And then Pau after he left the Lakers started shooting more 3s and being a stretch big. A big what if, if Pau bought into that with MDA and the Lakers.
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 12:58 pm    Post subject:

Worst trade: Westbrook
Worst FA signing: Mozdeng for 4 years
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 1:37 pm    Post subject:

Shaq, we really can't get more than what we got? not even more picks?
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 2:55 pm    Post subject:

Does Danny Green and a first round pick (Desmond Bane) for Dennis Schroder make the list? If that qualifies, then Travis Knight, Glenn Rice and a first round pick (Gilbert Arenas) for Ho Grant should be on the list.
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 4:01 pm    Post subject:

I go Russ first. Stupid stupid trade. We all knew it wasn't going to work. He cost way to much in capital and consumed the cap. Further was a bad fit with Lebron and is on the wrong side of his career.

Second is Nash. A better fit but he was in the twilight of his career and was a bad defender during his peak. Further another over paid trade. They complicated it by bringing in "his coach" in D'Antoni who had no need for the twin towers and had Pau shooting 3s.

Shaq was tough to swallow but understood. I still have to think they could have gotten more, but at least they rebounded quickly to get a few more rings.
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 4:38 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Shaq, we really can't get more than what we got? not even more picks?


The team had zero leverage after Shaq demanded a trade and knowing Kobe could leave. Other teams knew that. Keeping Shaq and losing Kobe is a lot worse in that situation.
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 4:47 pm    Post subject:

With Nash he was going to be a huge upgrade at PG over Sessions and Fisher. Jeremy Linn had that 38 point game when Fisher was the starting PG and there are still Youtube videos with highlights. It was an embarrassment.

The team still had Kobe, still had Gasol, and we Bynum was an all-star (we thought Howard was going to be better than he was). The team was trying to win when Kobe was still an elite player. Waiting for better deals was wasting the end of his career. The “big” move to get a PG before Nash was picking up Ramon Sessions.
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 6:35 am    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
governator wrote:
Shaq, we really can't get more than what we got? not even more picks?


The team had zero leverage after Shaq demanded a trade and knowing Kobe could leave. Other teams knew that. Keeping Shaq and losing Kobe is a lot worse in that situation.


And shaq made it known he would “recover on company time” for any team he didn’t want and only gave two teams iirc (the other was Dallas). He also didn’t want certain players (wade, for example) in the deal. Getting Odom alone was a score in that situation.
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 7:39 am    Post subject:

I thought the Shaq trade was the worst because you gave away 3 years of Kobe’s prime as a contender by trading Shaq. Should have kept them both and if one left on free agency so be it.

Taking back Brian Grant’s contract (a necessity in dealing Shaq) was horrible. Butler/Odom were decent pieces but again you wasted 3 prime years of Kobe by doing it.

A trade I personally hated was Nick Van Exel for Tony Battie/Ty Lue. Nick was such a talented player, in his prime. Sure he didn’t get along with Del but I absolutely hated that trade. I’m convinced he’d have been a better player for us even in the championship years than Derek Fisher
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 11:48 am    Post subject:

Dominic1981 wrote:
I thought the Shaq trade was the worst because you gave away 3 years of Kobe’s prime as a contender by trading Shaq. Should have kept them both and if one left on free agency so be it.

Taking back Brian Grant’s contract (a necessity in dealing Shaq) was horrible. Butler/Odom were decent pieces but again you wasted 3 prime years of Kobe by doing it.

A trade I personally hated was Nick Van Exel for Tony Battie/Ty Lue. Nick was such a talented player, in his prime. Sure he didn’t get along with Del but I absolutely hated that trade. I’m convinced he’d have been a better player for us even in the championship years than Derek Fisher


Wasting Kobe's prime was still better than letting Kobe leave through FA. We don't win those 2 titles without Kobe, whether he was in his prime or not.

The lakers couldn't keep kobe and shaq at the point of the trade. Kobe's FA made it known the lakers didn't have leverage and given how he was important to those 2 titles, keeping kobe was worth the poor return in hindsight.
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 1:35 pm    Post subject: Re: What Are the Worst All Time Lakers Trades?

yinoma2001 wrote:

-Zubac for Beasley/Muscala:


That move was to open up cap space. Zu's a good guy, but his9/8 was made up by JaVale/DH at less than half the price.

Quote:
-Dantley for Haywood


Lakers had 6'4" Dantley at SF and 6'5" 190# Jamaal Wilkes at PF. Moving Dantley allowed them to put Wilkes at SF.

Quote:
-Butler for Kwame:


Jerry Buss was penny pinching and didn't want to pay Caron. It turned out to be the correct move.

-Shaq for Butler/Odom/Grant: the worst in my book . . . except for Kobe threatening to sign with the Clippers. I would've held out for Wade, otherwise Shaq could've sat out the season - but the Lakers HAD to move Shaq to ensure keeping Kobe.

Quote:
For me, the Russ trade is the #1 worst trade in Lakers history.


Could very well be . . . but I look at these:

- Nick Van Exel for Tony Battie and Tyronn Lue: yeah, Cancun, I know, and Dr. Buss didn't want to pay him . . . but a 25 year old All Star in his prime can't get better than that?

- Doug Christie for two 2nd rounders (one unconveyed): considering that we traded Sam Bowie to get Christie, giving him away just aches. Imagine Christie at SF with Kobe at SG

- Gary Payton, Rick Fox, #1 for Chucky Atkins, Chris Mihm & Jumaine Jones: . . . I know, GP acted like an ass so we had to put in a #1 . . . which became Rajon Rondo.

- Orlando Woolridge for two unconveyed 2nd rounders: maybe they just wanted the guy off the team, but Woolridge was a 20 ppg scorer that they got nothing for in trade.

- Lindsey Hunter for Tracy Murray & Kareem Rush: Hunter was a valuable member of the 2001-02 champions. When we moved him, 1) the Lakers had no depth a PG, 2) Murray/Rush were huge busts, and 3) Hunter helped the Pistons dissect the Triangle when we faced them in 04 Finals.
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 3:04 pm    Post subject: Re: What Are the Worst All Time Lakers Trades?

Dr. Laker wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:

-Zubac for Beasley/Muscala:


That move was to open up cap space. Zu's a good guy, but his9/8 was made up by JaVale/DH at less than half the price.


Zu was a RFA with a tiny cap hold at the time. There was no point in executing the trade for cap space. Good maneuvering would have still allowed the lakers to pursue top targets while retaining Zu in case it didn't pan out.

All it did was "open" cap space up prematurely while sacrificing player flexibility.

Could have had Zu/Javale/DH due to Zu's cap hold.
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 3:43 pm    Post subject:

No other deal has the eventual value discrepancy like Dantley for Haywood.
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 6:15 pm    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
All these trades mentioned to try to take attention off our recent debacles.

What's funny is that Haywood was the old school of equivalent of AD... except an even better player who instead of injury prone was a drug addict.

So if Dantley had the drug habit... and Haywood was allowed to statpad in Utah... I'm pretty sure Haywood would have put up bigger numbers.

Kwame for Butler was dumb, but as you said it turned into Pau so no harm no foul

Nash got hurt... Shaq and Kobe couldn't play together.

And Zubac for Muscala although incredibly stupid takes away from the main problem which was trying to trade everyone for stars instead of building a more balanced team.

It was dumb squandering all of our assets for AD... not just the trade itself, but clearing all the space in preparation for the trade... then clearing more space for a Kawhi who was never going to come... and then doubling down with the Russ deal.

The combined moves done recently are stupider than any of these five trades.


I agree with majority of this, especially the lack of asset management for the 3 star vision and over paying for AD.
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 7:00 pm    Post subject: Re: What Are the Worst All Time Lakers Trades?

Dr. Laker wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:

-Zubac for Beasley/Muscala:


That move was to open up cap space. Zu's a good guy, but his9/8 was made up by JaVale/DH at less than half the price.

Quote:
-Dantley for Haywood


Lakers had 6'4" Dantley at SF and 6'5" 190# Jamaal Wilkes at PF. Moving Dantley allowed them to put Wilkes at SF.

Quote:
-Butler for Kwame:


Jerry Buss was penny pinching and didn't want to pay Caron. It turned out to be the correct move.

-Shaq for Butler/Odom/Grant: the worst in my book . . . except for Kobe threatening to sign with the Clippers. I would've held out for Wade, otherwise Shaq could've sat out the season - but the Lakers HAD to move Shaq to ensure keeping Kobe.

Quote:
For me, the Russ trade is the #1 worst trade in Lakers history.


Could very well be . . . but I look at these:

- Nick Van Exel for Tony Battie and Tyronn Lue: yeah, Cancun, I know, and Dr. Buss didn't want to pay him . . . but a 25 year old All Star in his prime can't get better than that?

- Doug Christie for two 2nd rounders (one unconveyed): considering that we traded Sam Bowie to get Christie, giving him away just aches. Imagine Christie at SF with Kobe at SG

- Gary Payton, Rick Fox, #1 for Chucky Atkins, Chris Mihm & Jumaine Jones: . . . I know, GP acted like an ass so we had to put in a #1 . . . which became Rajon Rondo.

- Orlando Woolridge for two unconveyed 2nd rounders: maybe they just wanted the guy off the team, but Woolridge was a 20 ppg scorer that they got nothing for in trade.

- Lindsey Hunter for Tracy Murray & Kareem Rush: Hunter was a valuable member of the 2001-02 champions. When we moved him, 1) the Lakers had no depth a PG, 2) Murray/Rush were huge busts, and 3) Hunter helped the Pistons dissect the Triangle when we faced them in 04 Finals.


I think another underrated mistake that arguably was the biggest mistake in Laker history was the trade of Kermit Washington to Boston. This would have allowed the Lakers to keep Dantley to use as sixth man and trade bait and have the perfect power forward next to Kareem (low usage, high efficiency all star caliber power forward who was probably the second best banger at the 4 spot next to Maurice Lucas at the time and loved to run the floor fitting in perfectly with Showtime).

But even more importantly than all this was the first round pick we attached. That 1978 first round pick we gave Boston changed history as it is well known the Celtics would have been very hesitant to draft Larry Bird to wait for a year had they not had 2 first round picks at the time. There is a good chance the Celtics would have just drafted Freeman Williams and WE could have used that pick on Indiana State's Larry Bird or at the very worst could have drafted an all star caliber player like UNLV's Reggie Theus (who was later good friends with Magic)
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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2022 7:26 am    Post subject:

Geez, is it really the Westbrook trade?
But wait, this year's WB trade will make up for it!!
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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2022 7:58 am    Post subject:

Westbrook trade
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2022 5:09 am    Post subject:

Outspoken wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
All these trades mentioned to try to take attention off our recent debacles.

What's funny is that Haywood was the old school of equivalent of AD... except an even better player who instead of injury prone was a drug addict.

So if Dantley had the drug habit... and Haywood was allowed to statpad in Utah... I'm pretty sure Haywood would have put up bigger numbers.

Kwame for Butler was dumb, but as you said it turned into Pau so no harm no foul

Nash got hurt... Shaq and Kobe couldn't play together.

And Zubac for Muscala although incredibly stupid takes away from the main problem which was trying to trade everyone for stars instead of building a more balanced team.

It was dumb squandering all of our assets for AD... not just the trade itself, but clearing all the space in preparation for the trade... then clearing more space for a Kawhi who was never going to come... and then doubling down with the Russ deal.

The combined moves done recently are stupider than any of these five trades.


I agree with majority of this, especially the lack of asset management for the 3 star vision and over paying for AD.


None of the worst trades mentioned above actually yielded a championship. So how can you even put the AD trade in the same stratosphere as those? That's just non-sensical and agenda driven. And then to staple the Russ move AFTER the team has already won a championship with AD is proof of that.
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20-21: 27/72 (37.5% missed)
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2022 5:45 am    Post subject:

Watching Jason Kidd say Frank Vogel is the biggest reason he improved as a coach and then see him talk about the younger guys on his Mavs team that can defend Booker etc the thread should be re-named "Aside from the worst trade in Lakers history (Westbrook for Caruso $$$, KCP, Kuz, FRP, Trez) what is the next (2nd) worst trade in Lakers history?

We had all the ingredients Dallas has, with Lebron being able to play the Luka role and AD being AD. We just dumped all our defenders, and role players that were critical for team chemistry and defense. Sure, maybe we would have lost to the Warriors like I think the Mavs will, but the trade is so bad on so many levels, it's just incredible really, looking at what's going on in the league, and how badly we screwed things up. Even with the injuries, Lebron/AD+quality role players on a well coached team are a 2nd round/WCF level team.


Last edited by wolfpaclaker on Mon May 16, 2022 5:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2022 5:47 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Watching Jason Kidd say Frank Vogel is the biggest reason he improved as a coach and then see him talk about the younger guys on his Mavs team that can defend Booker etc the thread should be re-named "Aside from the worst trade in Lakers history (Westbrook for Caruso $$$, KCP, Kuz, FRP, Trez) what is the next (2nd) worst trade in Lakers history?


It's criminal that we didn't run it back with the championship team
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2022 5:47 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Watching Jason Kidd say Frank Vogel is the biggest reason he improved as a coach and then see him talk about the younger guys on his Mavs team that can defend Booker etc the thread should be re-named "Aside from the worst trade in Lakers history (Westbrook for Caruso $$$, KCP, Kuz, FRP, Trez) what is the next (2nd) worst trade in Lakers history?


Yeah, I think the Russ trade is the #1 worst trade, but it's still TBD as we need to see the exit wound side of getting rid of Russ. May be 1, or even 2 more 1st round picks.
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20-21: 27/72 (37.5% missed)
21-22: 26/82 (31% missed)

AD missed games:
20-21: 36/72 (50% missed)
21-22: 40/82 (48% missed)

Lakers wins and win%:
20-21: 42-30 (58% win)
21-22: 33-49 (40% win)
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2022 5:50 am    Post subject:

danzag wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Watching Jason Kidd say Frank Vogel is the biggest reason he improved as a coach and then see him talk about the younger guys on his Mavs team that can defend Booker etc the thread should be re-named "Aside from the worst trade in Lakers history (Westbrook for Caruso $$$, KCP, Kuz, FRP, Trez) what is the next (2nd) worst trade in Lakers history?


It's criminal that we didn't run it back with the championship team

We probably still end up short vs GST or someone, because to win a title I think we needed AD to be the AD he was in 2020 and that's not a given. But at least the team had a shot. This was just the worst move in history of Lakers moves and the fact the Jeanie still thinks Rob/FO are amazing worries the living (bleep) out of me.
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2022 8:28 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
danzag wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Watching Jason Kidd say Frank Vogel is the biggest reason he improved as a coach and then see him talk about the younger guys on his Mavs team that can defend Booker etc the thread should be re-named "Aside from the worst trade in Lakers history (Westbrook for Caruso $$$, KCP, Kuz, FRP, Trez) what is the next (2nd) worst trade in Lakers history?


It's criminal that we didn't run it back with the championship team

We probably still end up short vs GST or someone, because to win a title I think we needed AD to be the AD he was in 2020 and that's not a given. But at least the team had a shot. This was just the worst move in history of Lakers moves and the fact the Jeanie still thinks Rob/FO are amazing worries the living (bleep) out of me.


I can't think of a worst offseason with all the multiple dimensions of Laker woes and then seeing the Celtics on the verge of a Finals appearance - and in pole position for the next several years. I can't begin to express how much this hurts.
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2022 12:48 pm    Post subject:

ThePageDude wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
danzag wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Watching Jason Kidd say Frank Vogel is the biggest reason he improved as a coach and then see him talk about the younger guys on his Mavs team that can defend Booker etc the thread should be re-named "Aside from the worst trade in Lakers history (Westbrook for Caruso $$$, KCP, Kuz, FRP, Trez) what is the next (2nd) worst trade in Lakers history?


It's criminal that we didn't run it back with the championship team

We probably still end up short vs GST or someone, because to win a title I think we needed AD to be the AD he was in 2020 and that's not a given. But at least the team had a shot. This was just the worst move in history of Lakers moves and the fact the Jeanie still thinks Rob/FO are amazing worries the living (bleep) out of me.


I can't think of a worst offseason with all the multiple dimensions of Laker woes and then seeing the Celtics on the verge of a Finals appearance - and in pole position for the next several years. I can't begin to express how much this hurts.


Blessing in disguise. Maybe it will motivate Jeanie to clean house and get some defensive players on this Lakers team. Boston is where they are now because they turned it around defensively.
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