Mass shooting at elementary school in Texas. (19 children & 2 teachers dead)
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slavavov
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 7:24 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
slavavov wrote:
Clearly, many people in our society love guns more than they love people, or at least certain people.

People value "gun rights" more than they value the freedom, safety and health of people who are different from them.

I was thinking to myself just yesterday, why do right-wingers love guns so much? I'm not against people having a handgun for their own protection, but these MFers love guns as more than a practical thing - they see them as some kind of cultural symbol.

These MFers cling to their guns so much - makes me wonder if the men who do so have small penises (not sure if I'm allowed to say that on this board - sorry in advance if I'm not allowed to).


Quote:
Gabrielle Perry, MPH @GeauxGabrielle

University in California did a comprehensive study of school/mass/spree shooters of all ages & found that the common link between them ALL is a vehement hatred of women (80% had a history of domestic violence). Most killed a female relative/gf/wife immediately prior to the event



link to NYT article


Someone mentioned it earlier but social media is basically a giant tinderbox for incels. Bunch of dudes who can't get any and see on social media their peers living these perfect lives (almost always curated photos) and they lash out.

In addition to the easy access to guns, looks like the other problem is societal misogyny and self-entitlement, two problems our society has had big time for decades.

Maybe it's time we teach kids in school that they should respect women instead of seeing them as sex objects.

Unfortunately, conservatives seem perfectly fine with misogyny, as evidenced by anti-abortion bills and other bills that try to throw mothers and/or their kids off vital govt benefits.
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 7:43 pm    Post subject:

The particulars of the timeline are a bit fluid, but at this point it is safe to say the cops were operating from an antiquated playbook (contain and bring in the negotiator and tactical team) more suited to a hostage situation when current doctrine on active shooters is the opposite (you approach and engaged relentlessly until you or they are down, because holding in place has no value against a person looking for kills not hostages or gain), or they were exceptionally, callously cowardly (apparently parents on even begged them to go in as (bleep) were ringing out), or both.
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 7:51 pm    Post subject:

What's sad is that it's not far-fetched to think that something like this could easily hit closer to home--- and one of US (OR EVEN WORSE) one of our kids or family members/friends become a victim to this bs.

I always try to keep my head on a swivel and make sure I'm being mindful of my surroundings in case something like this happens. I try to teach my kids the same..... but you just never know.
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 7:56 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
The particulars of the timeline are a bit fluid, but at this point it is safe to say the cops were operating from an antiquated playbook (contain and bring in the negotiator and tactical team) more suited to a hostage situation when current doctrine on active shooters is the opposite (you approach and engaged relentlessly until you or they are down, because holding in place has no value against a person looking for kills not hostages or gain), or they were exceptionally, callously cowardly (apparently parents on even begged them to go in as (bleep) were ringing out), or both.


If there is gunfire ringing out, you go in immediately, especially when it's an elementary school. If we're going to militarize our PD's by giving them extensive tactical gear, body armor, armed troop carriers and weaponry, then those wanna be Rambos better stop posing in the parking lot . . . otherwise we need to quit with the "good guy with a gun" bull$#!†.
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 7:57 pm    Post subject:

PLATNUM wrote:
What's sad is that it's not far-fetched to think that something like this could easily hit closer to home--- and one of US (OR EVEN WORSE) one of our kids or family members/friends become a victim to this bs.

I always try to keep my head on a swivel and make sure I'm being mindful of my surroundings in case something like this happens. I try to teach my kids the same..... but you just never know.


It did happen close to LA, think Thousand Oaks back in 2018, or the San Bernardino mass shooting in 2015. While they didn't involve schools I remember how crazy it was when it happened. Of course they all paled in comparison to the shooter in Las Vegas who basically terrorized the entire strip.
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 8:03 pm    Post subject:

PLATNUM wrote:
What's sad is that it's not far-fetched to think that something like this could easily hit closer to home--- and one of US (OR EVEN WORSE) one of our kids or family members/friends become a victim to this bs.

I always try to keep my head on a swivel and make sure I'm being mindful of my surroundings in case something like this happens. I try to teach my kids the same..... but you just never know.


That's the most sobering thing about this stuff. Every victim, and family member thereof, who is terrorized by this madness never starts their day thinking, "today could be the day" . . . well, more accurately, that didn't used to be the case.
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slavavov
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 9:31 pm    Post subject:

For those who want to blame mental health for all these shootings, here's a couple of things to consider, along with the fact that we need common-sense but no-nonsense gun control:

1. Going back to before the pandemic, more and more people from high school age to age 40+ didn't have much of a social life - by choice. More and more people decided to stay at home on Friday and Saturday nights and only "talk" to their friends on social media instead of going out and having a real social life, whether it's partying or just hanging out. These people are not losers - they could easily have a great social life if they only cared and put effort into it. Not having a social life can raise someone's risk of mental illness.

2. We as a society are overworked and underpaid, which leads to anxiety, depression and everything in-between. They say that many relationship problems have something to do with money. Plus, I feel like more and more high school/college students feel like it's not worth it to do well in school seeing how you can't get into the middle class by getting a good job.

There was a recent report that said less and less men are enrolling in college, and that mental health experts predict it will lead to more men who are socially deranged and isolated, and those are the men who easily become radicalized, whether it's by message boards, social media or far right-wing propaganda.
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DancingBarry
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 9:50 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
PLATNUM wrote:
What's sad is that it's not far-fetched to think that something like this could easily hit closer to home--- and one of US (OR EVEN WORSE) one of our kids or family members/friends become a victim to this bs.

I always try to keep my head on a swivel and make sure I'm being mindful of my surroundings in case something like this happens. I try to teach my kids the same..... but you just never know.


It did happen close to LA, think Thousand Oaks back in 2018, or the San Bernardino mass shooting in 2015. While they didn't involve schools I remember how crazy it was when it happened. Of course they all paled in comparison to the shooter in Las Vegas who basically terrorized the entire strip.


That day in Vegas my brother’s wife was at that concert dodging bullets. One of my best friend’s was on the strip as people came running in to the hotel he was at.

Hitting very close to home. We just supposed to keep taking it and taking it I guess because we’re living in a country of fools.
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 10:00 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
PLATNUM wrote:
What's sad is that it's not far-fetched to think that something like this could easily hit closer to home--- and one of US (OR EVEN WORSE) one of our kids or family members/friends become a victim to this bs.

I always try to keep my head on a swivel and make sure I'm being mindful of my surroundings in case something like this happens. I try to teach my kids the same..... but you just never know.


It did happen close to LA, think Thousand Oaks back in 2018, or the San Bernardino mass shooting in 2015. While they didn't involve schools I remember how crazy it was when it happened. Of course they all paled in comparison to the shooter in Las Vegas who basically terrorized the entire strip.


That day in Vegas my brother’s wife was at that concert dodging bullets. One of my best friend’s was on the strip as people came running in to the hotel he was at.

Hitting very close to home. We just supposed to keep taking it and taking it I guess because we’re living in a country of fools.


Yep, I remember reading that most of the victims from that mass shooting were from Socal. Very Sad.
Now I'm hearing about this mass shooting that the PD took their sweet time to prepare a response. No wonder the shooter was able to kill so many people.
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 11:32 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
DancingBarry wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
PLATNUM wrote:
What's sad is that it's not far-fetched to think that something like this could easily hit closer to home--- and one of US (OR EVEN WORSE) one of our kids or family members/friends become a victim to this bs.

I always try to keep my head on a swivel and make sure I'm being mindful of my surroundings in case something like this happens. I try to teach my kids the same..... but you just never know.


It did happen close to LA, think Thousand Oaks back in 2018, or the San Bernardino mass shooting in 2015. While they didn't involve schools I remember how crazy it was when it happened. Of course they all paled in comparison to the shooter in Las Vegas who basically terrorized the entire strip.


That day in Vegas my brother’s wife was at that concert dodging bullets. One of my best friend’s was on the strip as people came running in to the hotel he was at.

Hitting very close to home. We just supposed to keep taking it and taking it I guess because we’re living in a country of fools.


Yep, I remember reading that most of the victims from that mass shooting were from Socal. Very Sad.
Now I'm hearing about this mass shooting that the PD took their sweet time to prepare a response. No wonder the shooter was able to kill so many people.


was the shooter wearing a helmet with bulletproofing everywhere

When one of theres' is killed they fire 100 rounds into anything moving.. none of them experienced enough to figure out a way to take him down before gaining entry or were they stupid enough to employ a negotiation hostage issue..

Were they afraid to fire on him not wanting to kill any children if they miss? Sigh
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2022 12:00 am    Post subject:

May have already been posted...

Onlookers urged police to charge into Texas school

https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-44a7cfb990feaa6ffe482483df6e4683
Quote:
Department of Public Safety Director Steve McCraw told reporters that 40 minutes to an hour elapsed from when Ramos opened fire on the school security officer to when the tactical team shot him, though a department spokesman said later that they could not give a solid estimate of how long the gunman was in the school or when he was killed.

“The bottom line is law enforcement was there,” McCraw said. “They did engage immediately. They did contain (Ramos) in the classroom.”

Meanwhile, a law enforcement official familiar with the investigation said the Border Patrol agents had trouble breaching the classroom door and had to get a staff member to open the room with a key. The official spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly about the ongoing investigation.

Carranza said the officers should have entered the school sooner.

“There were more of them. There was just one of him,” he said.

Uvalde is a largely Latino town of some 16,000 people about 75 miles (120 kilometers) from the Mexican border. Robb Elementary, which has nearly 600 students in second, third and fourth grades, is a single-story brick structure in a mostly residential neighborhood of modest homes.

Before attacking the school, Ramos shot and wounded his grandmother at the home they shared, authorities said.



Wow.. 40 minutes to an Hour they let him murder little hispanic children.. hmm

Nearly 600 students.. holy (bleep) what stopped him from doing more killing.. .didn't take 40 minutes to shoot one classroom... sigh
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2022 12:21 am    Post subject:

Guess reddit has video link of police standing there stopping parents from trying to run in and you can see them tackling a Mother trying to run and hear screams...
^^^I don't add videos like this to my eyes whenever possible
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2022 5:04 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
anth2000 wrote:
Hate to say this but at only 5 pages, I can see this thread fizzling out in a matter of days.

It’s sad…

We all kind of move on…

I have two kids in high school…one in college, and my kids are also angry.

But, a week from now, there will be another shooting by another teen with access to guns.



I feel ya. I have one kid who works full time at a grocery store and one that is about to graduate high school . . . it's hard not to feel like they are in high risk environments. They know it too.


I’ve got a 9 year old heading to 4th grade next school year and my wife is a high school English teacher. Both right on the front lines every day it seems. I’m just glad the last day of school was yesterday so at least for a couple of months worrying about them isn’t in the back of my mind every day.
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2022 7:55 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
jodeke wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Gregg Abbot is a hypocrite. He's on TV talking about healing and saying nothing about the incredibly outrageous Texas gun laws he passed. He said the problem was mental health, not guns.

Senators voicing outrage, wash and rinse. We're in for a week of outrage that will be pushed to the back page in a day or two.


The problem is mental health. This guy was bullied because he had a lisp and wore eye liner. He had a crappy home life. No one who is in good mental health decides to go and kill a lot of people. Yet millions and millions own guns and never hurt another human. I have owned them for over 50 years and unless you are a quail, you won’t be hurt by one.


The problem is ignoring easy access to guns. If a mentally ill person didn't have access to a gun mass shootings would slowly become a thing of the past. Query VLF, would you hunt quail if they had guns?


Mental health is definitely important and should always be supported but this is a unique US problem, school shootings and in general, mass shootings. This is a failure of gun access screening problem
I amended my post to read "If a mentally ill person or any person didn't have easy access to a gun"
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2022 8:53 am    Post subject:

Did the police really just stand outside for 30-40 minutes and let those babies get slaughtered??
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2022 9:03 am    Post subject:

Hypocrisy kills and doesn't wash the blood off the hands of pro-gun/anti-children politicians.

Quote:
NBC News @NBCNews

Texas Gov. Abbott says the Uvalde school shooter had a "mental health challenge" and the state needed to "do a better job with mental health" — yet in April he slashed $211M from the department that oversees mental health programs
.


The night of the shooting, Abbott went straight from the press conference to a fund raiser. Then he's going to NRA convention in Houston where all guns will be banned. Banning is good enough to protect wealthy white men but not good enough to protect children and the rest of us.
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2022 9:04 am    Post subject:

hoopschick29 wrote:
Did the police really just stand outside for 30-40 minutes and let those babies get slaughtered??


It sure seems that way. And scared parents were begging them to go in. In reality the children in that first classroom were probably already gone in the first few minutes, but the police didn't know that. For all they knew he was going from classroom to classroom.
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2022 9:27 am    Post subject:

As horrible as it is
those cowardly keystone cops standing out front
Are all the defense needed to prove the gun problem trumps the mental health problem

If this were a mental health problem without a gun everyone would be alive

This was a gun problem as duly noted by the police too afraid to defend little children being chopped to pieces by the Reloadians Golden Calf AR-15

Hopefully the Chief of police there quits in shame for building such a mentally deficient and cowardly crew
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2022 9:46 am    Post subject:

From the National PTA:

Enough is well past enough.

The mass shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, on Tuesday is the deadliest school shooting since 2012, when 26 children and adults were killed at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut.

Our association has challenged Congress over and over again to address this issue. Parents are scared to send their children to school, teachers are worried about how to protect their students, and our children are now singing new lyrics to Twinkle Twinkle Little Star:

"Lockdown, lockdown, Lock the door

"Shut the lights off, Say no more

"Go behind the desk and hide

"Wait until it's safe inside"

We are, as civil rights activist Fannie Lou Hamer once said, sick and tired of being sick and tired. But we are not going to go numb. PTA has been the conscience of this country on issues affecting children and youth for over 125 years, and we're never going to stop advocating for every child with one united voice.

We urge you to join us in demanding change—and to take care of yourself and your family, too.
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2022 9:49 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
Hypocrisy kills and doesn't wash the blood off the hands of pro-gun/anti-children politicians.

Quote:
NBC News @NBCNews

Texas Gov. Abbott says the Uvalde school shooter had a "mental health challenge" and the state needed to "do a better job with mental health" — yet in April he slashed $211M from the department that oversees mental health programs
.


The night of the shooting, Abbott went straight from the press conference to a fund raiser. Then he's going to NRA convention in Houston where all guns will be banned. Banning is good enough to protect wealthy white men but not good enough to protect children and the rest of us.


Guns are banned from school grounds in Texas (and also California).
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2022 9:53 am    Post subject:

Uvalde Mayor Don McLaughlin yelled at Beto O'Rourke, the Democratic nominee for Texas governor, on Wednesday during a press conference a day after 21 people, including 19 children, were killed in one of the largest school shootings in U.S. history.

McLaughlin, a Republican who has appeared on the Tucker Carlson Show in the past, yelled at O'Rourke, who interrupted Texas Gov. Greg Abbott as Abbott gave updates on the shooting and the aftermath from Uvalde High School.

McLaughlin called O'Rourke a "sick son of a (bleep)," as he chided the former El Paso area congressman and Senate candidate.
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2022 9:58 am    Post subject:

Apparently, the husband of one of the teachers that was killed suffered a fatal heart attack, leaving their four children orphaned.
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2022 9:59 am    Post subject:

My kids were fortunate to attend a new elementary school, each classroom was designed so that one corner could not be seen from outside. In a case like this the doors would automatically lock and the kids would go to that corner and a gun man couldn’t reach them. Being in California, there are also earthquake safety measures. We shouldn’t have to go to these measures to protect our children but it is a reality. Imagine how many schools could be retrofitted with $40 billion.
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2022 10:05 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
Hypocrisy kills and doesn't wash the blood off the hands of pro-gun/anti-children politicians.

Quote:
NBC News @NBCNews

Texas Gov. Abbott says the Uvalde school shooter had a "mental health challenge" and the state needed to "do a better job with mental health" — yet in April he slashed $211M from the department that oversees mental health programs
.


The night of the shooting, Abbott went straight from the press conference to a fund raiser. Then he's going to NRA convention in Houston where all guns will be banned. Banning is good enough to protect wealthy white men but not good enough to protect children and the rest of us.


Guns are banned from school grounds in Texas (and also California).


And? First, that has nothing to do with my post. Earlier you were arguing it's about mental health, not guns. So I'm showing you that the pro-gun governor who also said it's a mental health issue is a massive hypocrite because he slashed the state mental health budget. So even if you are going with the mental health angle, he's partly to blame.

Second, the shooter was able to walk into a gun store when he turned 18 years and buy two AR-15's and a ton of ammunition with no background checks, no training, no nothing.

Your comment that "guns are banned from school grounds" adds nothing to the discussion and helps solve no problems. Robbing banks is illegal, but people do it. Speeding is illegal, but people do it. Assault is illegal, but people do it. Murder is illegal, but people do it.

That doesn't mean you don't have any laws or imply something as ridiculous as, "Well there are laws against murder, and this guy murdered someone, so see the laws don't work!"

I'm tired of the double-talk nonsense about gun safety laws.
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2022 10:08 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
My kids were fortunate to attend a new elementary school, each classroom was designed so that one corner could not be seen from outside. In a case like this the doors would automatically lock and the kids would go to that corner and a gun man couldn’t reach them. Being in California, there are also earthquake safety measures. We shouldn’t have to go to these measures to protect our children but it is a reality. Imagine how many schools could be retrofitted with $40 billion.


I've seen the K-12 schools I used to attend. They already look like prisons. They are fenced in and students can only enter and exit via certain entrances. When I used to go to high school they were open campuses, now nobody can exit or enter outside of certain hours. Why stop at doors. Since a perp might go door to door shooting folks, every classroom needs a panic room. And you might as well add a pillbox at the entrances to make sure no armed shooter can get past the entrance. Since mass shootings don't just happen at school we also need to retrofit our movie theaters, markets, etc. BTW, nice zinger on the $40 billion, we know what you are referring to. No, we don't need to spend that much money if certain folks actually gave a damn about kids safety.


Last edited by lakersken80 on Thu May 26, 2022 10:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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