Was passing on Jayson Tatum the biggest draft blunder in the history of the franchise?
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Was passing on Tatum the biggest draft blunder in the history of the Lakers?
yes
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 43%  [ 14 ]
no
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 56%  [ 18 ]
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j-dawg
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 7:15 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
j-dawg wrote:
2019 wrote:
Tatum would've been traded for AD
this


And allow LAL to keep Hart and Kuzma.


And then only one of them would be kept because of luxury tax reasons.

Yep. Wish we’d have that luxury of having one of them .. like right now.
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deal
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 7:51 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
j-dawg wrote:
2019 wrote:
Tatum would've been traded for AD
this


And allow LAL to keep Hart and Kuzma.


And then only one of them would be kept because of luxury tax reasons.


Maybe; but would LA prefer to pay for RW, AD & LJ or Tatum, BI and one of AD or LJ? The Lakers are already paying out a mess of money in payroll.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 7:55 am    Post subject:

deal wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
j-dawg wrote:
2019 wrote:
Tatum would've been traded for AD
this


And allow LAL to keep Hart and Kuzma.


And then only one of them would be kept because of luxury tax reasons.


Maybe; but would LA prefer to pay for RW, AD & LJ or Tatum, BI and one of AD or LJ? The Lakers are already paying out a mess of money in payroll.


LeBron sell tickets and merch way more.

Still doesn't stop them from trying to avoid or limit luxury tax expense.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:40 am    Post subject:

The Lakers can't have players that play this poorly in the Finals. We need Finals stars - not losers.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:23 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
This thread is dying as people finally realize what I said all along....that Tatum is soft and he is not it.


The thread didn't die, and most people would take Tatum in a heartbeat. The Warriors were the better team. I picked them in five. The Celtics took it to 6. Tatum didn't have a good Finals. There are always people who want to make sweeping judgments over things like this. By the same reasoning, they would have written off Kobe based on '04. In fact, an awful lot of people did write off Kobe based on '04. Tatum is no Kobe, but the point is that playoff series are better at generating narratives than genuine analysis. There were narratives about Lebron and Curry at various points in time.


I dont EVER remember anyone calling Kobe soft......he was called a lot of things especially from 1996-1999, but soft was never a word anyone uttered to Kobe because it simply was not true. Those narratives regarding Lebron and Curry were true at the time.....Lebron was soft and unsure especially against Kobe up until around he won his first chip and it was even more noticeable until 2009. Its like when you know you are competing against a mentally stronger and older dude....u lose a little confidence. Narratives dont happen for no reason and when I started calling Tatum soft and weak - hardly anyone on this forum was saying what i was saying - and yet now plenty of people are saying it because he got badly exposed.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:28 pm    Post subject:

epic_ wrote:
epic_ wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
scout_0 wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
You guys are complaining that we didn’t get this choker?


27-10-4 on 10/20FG 4/9 3 PT


pure hate


The kid just isnt ready to be that #1 of a title team. Put him with Lebron though, I have no doubt he would thrive and would not be struggling the way he is now.....similar to how Wiggins thrives in his role in GSW, having that veteran facilitating leader for Tatum would be ideal for him. He put up most of those numbers when GSW was stagnant and momentum was on the Celtics side following a couple lackadaisical Warrior plays when the game was getting away from them in the third quarter. The moment that the game started to get away from the Celtics, Tatum disappeared again.


I believe Tatum is overrated.
But he's a great #2 imo, which is a great thing to be.
Hopefully Boston never gets a #1.

BTW, I'm using the context of the #1s we've had on the Lakers, so I guess that's not really fair for him. But who cares. He's a Celtic. He can kick rocks.


What do you think KOC?


Quote:
Kevin O'Connor
@KevinOConnorNBA

Let's just be honest, Jayson Tatum looked more like a #2 than a #1 all series against the Warriors.

Tatum is 24 so there's plenty of time to grow into his prime, and he took steps forward this postseason for the Celtics. But he's not that guy just yet.


Thats a nice compliment. A media guy who almost repeats me verbatim
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:34 pm    Post subject:

TBH I wouldnt even put Tatum above Ingram at all now that i've seen him PG/Harden his way through multiple Playoffs now. Dude has been brutal in the most important games. He's still young and can turn it around but he has absolutely not looked like a #1 consistently at all.

Tatum has had the benefit of playing with a significantly better roster and coaching staff then Ingram has but the little i've seen of Ingram in the Playoffs I truthfully feel the Celtics likely win it all if you switch those two. I could end up being totally wrong but I haven't been impressed with him in the Playoffs thus far at all outside of a few really good games. I also know Ingram has ice in his veins and is a killer at the end of games while with Tatum I get more PG13 Playoff vibes thus far in his career. Hopefully if he stays on the Celtics these traits never change
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:46 pm    Post subject:

1995Lakers wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
This thread is dying as people finally realize what I said all along....that Tatum is soft and he is not it.


The thread didn't die, and most people would take Tatum in a heartbeat. The Warriors were the better team. I picked them in five. The Celtics took it to 6. Tatum didn't have a good Finals. There are always people who want to make sweeping judgments over things like this. By the same reasoning, they would have written off Kobe based on '04. In fact, an awful lot of people did write off Kobe based on '04. Tatum is no Kobe, but the point is that playoff series are better at generating narratives than genuine analysis. There were narratives about Lebron and Curry at various points in time.


I dont EVER remember anyone calling Kobe soft......he was called a lot of things especially from 1996-1999, but soft was never a word anyone uttered to Kobe because it simply was not true. Those narratives regarding Lebron and Curry were true at the time.....Lebron was soft and unsure especially against Kobe up until around he won his first chip and it was even more noticeable until 2009. Its like when you know you are competing against a mentally stronger and older dude....u lose a little confidence. Narratives dont happen for no reason and when I started calling Tatum soft and weak - hardly anyone on this forum was saying what i was saying - and yet now plenty of people are saying it because he got badly exposed.


No, people called Kobe a selfish loser after '04. It got worse after Game 7 against Phoenix in '06. These are just narratives. When you lose -- or win -- a playoff series, you get narratives. It doesn't mean that they're true. It just reflects the tendency of fans to overreact and make moral judgments about players based on the outcome of a game or a series.

Your particular narratives don't make a lot of sense. Lebron was soft against Kobe until he won his first title and particularly before 2009? Uh, no. I remember those days quite differently. People here used to gripe because Lebron killed us. I just looked up 2008. We lost to the Cavs twice, with Lebron scoring 33 in one game and 41 in the other. Kobe scored 21 and 33. We did beat the Cavs a couple times back in that era, but I can remember the angst around here when Lebron and the Cavs spanked us in the Christmas game one of those years. Oh, yeah. Lebron was soft and unsure of himself. Sure thing.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:03 pm    Post subject:

Lakeshow323 wrote:
We were screwed either way, Tatum is the worse kind of player, a guy you have to supermax like a #1 but is way closer to #2. He’s a good player, but he didnt have a bad series, he was shook and disintegrated. He’s not that dude.

The guy is 24 geez. Where are the other 24 year olds taking their team to the finals? LeBron had a crap 1st finals too
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 2:13 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
This thread is dying as people finally realize what I said all along....that Tatum is soft and he is not it.


The thread didn't die, and most people would take Tatum in a heartbeat. The Warriors were the better team. I picked them in five. The Celtics took it to 6. Tatum didn't have a good Finals. There are always people who want to make sweeping judgments over things like this. By the same reasoning, they would have written off Kobe based on '04. In fact, an awful lot of people did write off Kobe based on '04. Tatum is no Kobe, but the point is that playoff series are better at generating narratives than genuine analysis. There were narratives about Lebron and Curry at various points in time.


I dont EVER remember anyone calling Kobe soft......he was called a lot of things especially from 1996-1999, but soft was never a word anyone uttered to Kobe because it simply was not true. Those narratives regarding Lebron and Curry were true at the time.....Lebron was soft and unsure especially against Kobe up until around he won his first chip and it was even more noticeable until 2009. Its like when you know you are competing against a mentally stronger and older dude....u lose a little confidence. Narratives dont happen for no reason and when I started calling Tatum soft and weak - hardly anyone on this forum was saying what i was saying - and yet now plenty of people are saying it because he got badly exposed.


No, people called Kobe a selfish loser after '04. It got worse after Game 7 against Phoenix in '06. These are just narratives. When you lose -- or win -- a playoff series, you get narratives. It doesn't mean that they're true. It just reflects the tendency of fans to overreact and make moral judgments about players based on the outcome of a game or a series.

Your particular narratives don't make a lot of sense. Lebron was soft against Kobe until he won his first title and particularly before 2009? Uh, no. I remember those days quite differently. People here used to gripe because Lebron killed us. I just looked up 2008. We lost to the Cavs twice, with Lebron scoring 33 in one game and 41 in the other. Kobe scored 21 and 33. We did beat the Cavs a couple times back in that era, but I can remember the angst around here when Lebron and the Cavs spanked us in the Christmas game one of those years. Oh, yeah. Lebron was soft and unsure of himself. Sure thing.


Whatever dude.... im sure you thought the Tatum narratives didnt make a lot of sense either until he fell apart in the finals. Im sure the narratives around Lebron not being able to win didnt make sense to you either until he fell apart against Dallas. You are the type of person who actually has to see it to believe it and even then you try to justify it as "narratives" when it doesnt fit your thinking. Lets just say I expected both to happen before they happened and sure enough, they happened. The fact that you cant differentiate the context, for example, between the differences of 2008 and 2009 is the reason you cant understand why Tatum can go off vs Mil and Mia but failed completely in the finals or why Lebron took apart Boston and Chi in 2011 but fell apart vs Dal.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 3:50 am    Post subject:

1995Lakers wrote:
Whatever dude.... im sure you thought the Tatum narratives didnt make a lot of sense either until he fell apart in the finals. Im sure the narratives around Lebron not being able to win didnt make sense to you either until he fell apart against Dallas. You are the type of person who actually has to see it to believe it and even then you try to justify it as "narratives" when it doesnt fit your thinking. Lets just say I expected both to happen before they happened and sure enough, they happened. The fact that you cant differentiate the context, for example, between the differences of 2008 and 2009 is the reason you cant understand why Tatum can go off vs Mil and Mia but failed completely in the finals or why Lebron took apart Boston and Chi in 2011 but fell apart vs Dal.


Wow. You actually believe this stuff, don't you? "The differences of 2008 and 2009"? Oh yeah, that makes sense. Sure thing. Anyway, you can always generate a negative narrative after someone loses in the Finals. The announcers and media pundits will feed it to you, because that's how they make a living. They turn a playoff series into a morality tale, and people like you eat it up. At some point, you just might want to consider whether it's all a load of nonsense. But if you like narratives, knock yourself out.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 5:55 am    Post subject:

The Lakers needed a guard that year no doubt and they went with Ball who they thought was the best choice, and had great potential.

Our biggest FA signings were KCP and Andrew Bogut, we had potential on the team with the likes of: Clarkson, Ingram and Randle.

My guess is that with Ingram on the team the Lakers FO thought he may have been better suited moving forward, so why draft a similar player and no one knew LBJ and AD were options at that time.

What really messed everyone up was Fultz to Washington at #1, that threw a monkey wrench in everything! If Ball would have gone #1 the Lakers would not have picked Fultz and Tatum is the draw by default to give us leverage in the Trade market. Then no Kuzma @27, the Lakers pick a guard, we did end up getting Hart, so maybe we pick him @27 and trade for another player @30... (Who knows)

But then LBJ came the following year and everyone was expendable! LOL
We Trade away all of our young talent for AD and win a Championship in the Bubble the next season. From a Business standpoint, those were well calculated moves.

The FO could have possibly went with Tatum and the same moves and outcome still occur, it's all perspective... (I would have taken Tatum)

Over the course of those 3 years, the league continued to evolve, the Lakers just haven't done so yet, but we will this coming season, we have to or risk losing one of the greatest to ever play the game, not named Kobe Bryant...
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 6:01 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
Whatever dude.... im sure you thought the Tatum narratives didnt make a lot of sense either until he fell apart in the finals. Im sure the narratives around Lebron not being able to win didnt make sense to you either until he fell apart against Dallas. You are the type of person who actually has to see it to believe it and even then you try to justify it as "narratives" when it doesnt fit your thinking. Lets just say I expected both to happen before they happened and sure enough, they happened. The fact that you cant differentiate the context, for example, between the differences of 2008 and 2009 is the reason you cant understand why Tatum can go off vs Mil and Mia but failed completely in the finals or why Lebron took apart Boston and Chi in 2011 but fell apart vs Dal.


Wow. You actually believe this stuff, don't you? "The differences of 2008 and 2009"? Oh yeah, that makes sense. Sure thing. Anyway, you can always generate a negative narrative after someone loses in the Finals. The announcers and media pundits will feed it to you, because that's how they make a living. They turn a playoff series into a morality tale, and people like you eat it up. At some point, you just might want to consider whether it's all a load of nonsense. But if you like narratives, knock yourself out.


Wow....you actually have no idea what you are talking about do you? Generate a negative narrative after someone loses in the finals?????? Oh really????? Check my post history genius. I called Tatum a soft guy who I couldnt see leading to a title DURING THE BUCKS SERIES and even after his 46 pt explosion- yea BEFORE he got exposed unlike people like you who can only Monday night quarterback after something happens. Yea I was probably the only guy on here who called it from way back then. That he would be the reason they will not win. Of course you wouldnt understand context - you cant even remember basic facts that the Christmas game the Lakers lost to the Cavs was in 2010 - the winter before he left for Miami.


Last edited by 1995Lakers on Sat Jun 18, 2022 6:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 6:03 am    Post subject:

1995Lakers wrote:
Wow....you actually have no idea what you are talking about do you? Generate a negative narrative after someone loses in the finals?????? Oh really????? Check my post history genius. I called Tatum a soft guy who I couldnt see leading to a title DURING THE BUCKS SERIES and even after his 46 pt explosion- yea BEFORE he got exposed unlike people like you who can only Monday night quarterback after something happens.


Okay, man. You seem to be very impressed with yourself. It must be comforting.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 6:09 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
Wow....you actually have no idea what you are talking about do you? Generate a negative narrative after someone loses in the finals?????? Oh really????? Check my post history genius. I called Tatum a soft guy who I couldnt see leading to a title DURING THE BUCKS SERIES and even after his 46 pt explosion- yea BEFORE he got exposed unlike people like you who can only Monday night quarterback after something happens.


Okay, man. You seem to be very impressed with yourself. It must be comforting.


Yea when I usually post as to what I think will happen...usually Im right though there are always instances that surprise like the Lakers - Mavericks series in 2011 - although even that series if the rumors that came out later are to be believed, its no surprise why Pau played like crap and the Lakers had "trust issues". Want further proof? You should check my history of the Dodgers during the playoffs of how I said guys were going to do. What I called about Trea Turner who was coming off an MVP caliber year last year during the 2021 playoffs and the fireballing phenom Dustin May during the 2020 playoffs run.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 6:17 am    Post subject:

Celtics didn't win, so this thread is moot.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 6:25 am    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
Celtics didn't win, so this thread is moot.


Of course this thread was moot. I said from the very beginning that Tatum being considered the guy the Lakers missed out on most was a true prisoner of the moment gut reaction when you had instances of the Lakers missing out on several titles during Jerry West's prime by not pulling the trigger on drafting the 1960s version of Charles Barkley in hall of famer Gus Johnson and the Lakers feeding the Celtics the 1978 pick in the Kermit Washington trade (ideal power forward for Kareem) that allowed the Celtics the freedom to know they can wait a year for Larry Bird, else they probably would have just gone with Freeman Williams. Lakers could have drafted Bird for themselves or drafted hometown all star Reggie Theus
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 6:55 am    Post subject:

Another thought I brought up from BEFORE the series started: If I was the Celtics the only reason I wouldnt trade Butler for Tatum is the age gap - that if they were around the same age, I am happily pulling that trigger with no hesitation because the mental edge of Jimmy over Tatum was apparent even though Tatum was the better player. Can you imagine Wiggins - the guy Butler used to "Son" in Minnesota trying to take on playoff Jimmy in single coverage? Butler used to own both Wiggins and Towns together in Minnesota. That difference right there between Tatum and Butler not only could but would have changed the course of this finals.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 7:28 am    Post subject:

lakurluv wrote:
The Lakers needed a guard that year no doubt and they went with Ball who they thought was the best choice, and had great potential.

Our biggest FA signings were KCP and Andrew Bogut, we had potential on the team with the likes of: Clarkson, Ingram and Randle.

My guess is that with Ingram on the team the Lakers FO thought he may have been better suited moving forward, so why draft a similar player and no one knew LBJ and AD were options at that time.

What really messed everyone up was Fultz to Washington at #1, that threw a monkey wrench in everything! If Ball would have gone #1 the Lakers would not have picked Fultz and Tatum is the draw by default to give us leverage in the Trade market. Then no Kuzma @27, the Lakers pick a guard, we did end up getting Hart, so maybe we pick him @27 and trade for another player @30... (Who knows).


Why do you think we wouldn’t have picked Fultz? I don’t know that Tatum was really on our radar. I think the Sixers did us a favor, becaause Fultz and Ball seemed to be the consensus top two picks.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 7:44 am    Post subject:

Is him changing his number to 24 next year real
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 7:57 am    Post subject:

1995Lakers wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
Celtics didn't win, so this thread is moot.


Of course this thread was moot. I said from the very beginning that Tatum being considered the guy the Lakers missed out on most was a true prisoner of the moment gut reaction when you had instances of the Lakers missing out on several titles during Jerry West's prime by not pulling the trigger on drafting the 1960s version of Charles Barkley in hall of famer Gus Johnson and the Lakers feeding the Celtics the 1978 pick in the Kermit Washington trade (ideal power forward for Kareem) that allowed the Celtics the freedom to know they can wait a year for Larry Bird, else they probably would have just gone with Freeman Williams. Lakers could have drafted Bird for themselves or drafted hometown all star Reggie Theus


It's not prisoner of the moment.

There's already tiers of difference between Tatum and Lonzo. Is Lonzo carrying teams into the playoffs as a Top 2 player on his own team?

No.
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