Brittney Griner found guilty and sentenced to nine years in prison
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governator
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:17 am    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Heartburn wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Heartburn wrote:
Totally agree with DMR. She put herself in this position.

You take your life in your hands when you try to earn a living in a country like Russia. Why you would decide to engage in the types of activity she was (even something relatively minor like weed) in a country like that is beyond me. No reasonable person would flout the law and custom in a country like that and ignore the possible consequences if caught.

Are the charges trumped up? Sure, maybe. But come on. You're opening yourself up to unpredictable complications if something goes wrong.


What's the difference between Griner and Otto Warmbier?


From what I remember, there was advice given to Otto not to go to NK. He went anyway and was arrested and ultimately comatosed/killed. Whether it was reasonable or not, you shouldn't expect to be treated fairly.

Again, you take your life in your hands going to countries that are openly hostile to the U.S. You should have no illusions or expectations of safety, privacy, security, etc.

I've had to make several business trips to China and I do everything I can to avoid prying eyes or get any unwanted attention. Doing so as a brown-skinned dude in China isn't easy. I'd be happy to never return. That said, it's very clear that you should expect you're under surveillance even in your hotel room.


Alot of the same logic is used n victim blaming. Like when that rape victim went up to Mike Tyson’s room at 3am. People said the same thing. What did she expect was going to happen? No expectation of safety. She put herself in that bad position.


I think US should do everything to bring her back but this is completely different than your rape scenario. That rape victim did zero crime, Grinner did crime (BS charge but a crime in another country nonetheless), unless the charge was manufactured than you can't say it was the same logic
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:23 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
I think US should do everything to bring her back but this is completely different than your rape scenario. That rape victim did zero crime, Grinner did crime (BS charge but a crime in another country nonetheless), unless the charge was manufactured than you can't say it was the same logic


I didn't say the circumstances are the same. I said that I’ve heard the same logic used before:

If the logic is:

1) You knew the dangers beforehand
2) You were warned beforehand
3) You put yourself in an unsafe situation
4) You are responsible for the situations that you knowingly put yourself in

Then I’ve heard that same logic used before.

And if you don’t like the Griner case, then look at the Otto Warmbier case. That was the logic he used...

And if committing a crime makes a difference, then look at Rodney King.

I’m saying I’ve heard the same logic used before.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:38 am    Post subject:

UPDATED August 05, 2022
By RFE/RL

Russia, U.S. Say They're Ready For Talks On Prisoner Swap After Griner Sentenced

LINK

Quote:
In April, they staged a prisoner swap that saw former U.S. Marine Trevor Reed traded for Russian pilot Konstantin Yaroshenko, who was serving a 20-year sentence in the United States.


I'm not fully aware of the swap. Was the 20-year sentence appropriate?
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:50 am    Post subject:

I think the negotiation now is to release somebody less dangerous from US side but she has to come home
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:57 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:

But in regards to punishment fitting the crime, how does that reconcile with letting a big-time, dangerous arms dealer go free in order to meet a goal?


After I watched an Innocence Project death row documentary not too long ago. I came to the conclusion.
An over-sentenced person imprisoned. Or, an innocent person capital punished.

That's worse. Than a guilty person going free.
And I think the architects of our judicial system agree. That's why the burden of proof is on the prosecutor (in theory).


I agree completely on the importance of emphasizing the need to protect the innocent over punishing the guilty. And I can see how that is an attractive analogy in this instance. However, our judicial system attempting to prioritize protecting the innocent doesn't come with the additional issue of encouraging the taking of innocent people as political hostages. That's where the Griner situation differs.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:17 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
kikanga wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:

But in regards to punishment fitting the crime, how does that reconcile with letting a big-time, dangerous arms dealer go free in order to meet a goal?


After I watched an Innocence Project death row documentary not too long ago. I came to the conclusion.
An over-sentenced person imprisoned. Or, an innocent person capital punished.

That's worse. Than a guilty person going free.
And I think the architects of our judicial system agree. That's why the burden of proof is on the prosecutor (in theory).


I agree completely on the importance of emphasizing the need to protect the innocent over punishing the guilty. And I can see how that is an attractive analogy in this instance. However, our judicial system attempting to prioritize protecting the innocent doesn't come with the additional issue of encouraging the taking of innocent people as political hostages. That's where the Griner situation differs.


I agree.
If I was President. I'd overpay for Griner.
But make a public statement. Moving forward, the US won't be making these lopsided trades again. If Americans decide to travel to Russia, they are taking their own lives into their own hands.
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Last edited by kikanga on Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:21 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:58 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
kikanga wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:

But in regards to punishment fitting the crime, how does that reconcile with letting a big-time, dangerous arms dealer go free in order to meet a goal?


After I watched an Innocence Project death row documentary not too long ago. I came to the conclusion.
An over-sentenced person imprisoned. Or, an innocent person capital punished.

That's worse. Than a guilty person going free.
And I think the architects of our judicial system agree. That's why the burden of proof is on the prosecutor (in theory).


I agree completely on the importance of emphasizing the need to protect the innocent over punishing the guilty. And I can see how that is an attractive analogy in this instance. However, our judicial system attempting to prioritize protecting the innocent doesn't come with the additional issue of encouraging the taking of innocent people as political hostages. That's where the Griner situation differs.


I agree.
If I was President. I'd overpay for Griner.
But make a public statement. Moving forward, the US won't be making these lopsided trades again. If Americans decide to travel to Russia, they are taking their own lives into their own hands.


That's what makes her case such a conundrum. Unfortunately, Brittney's arrest is complicated on many fronts. I want her home because she's being used. She's a political pawn.

Then I weigh the ramifications. Russia will imprison Americans, falsely accuse them, and use them as leverage to get things they want, ie. lift sanctions.

Oversiimplifing, I liken her situation to the words of Mr. Spock

Quote:
“Logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.” Captain Kirk answers, “Or the one.”


IMO that's a weightless caveat
. If this swap comes to fruition rest assured Russia will try it again if they gain an advantage.

Moving forward I agree with Americans, other than diplomats, who travel to Russia do so at their own peril.


I don't envy President Biden's position. It's known American President's hair turns grey. Biden is already grey, he's going bald.
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