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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:11 am    Post subject:

Damn this was emotional:

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jonnybravo
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:52 pm    Post subject:

Not playing for me but I was googling some highlights of his farewell. Nadal was an emotional wreck.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:03 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
Not playing for me but I was googling some highlights of his farewell. Nadal was an emotional wreck.


Their 2008 Wimbledon Finals was one of the greatest tennis matches. Nadal would not be the player we know today if Federer wasn't there to push him to his limits.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2022 12:37 am    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
Not playing for me but I was googling some highlights of his farewell. Nadal was an emotional wreck.




Yeah, looks like that one got blocked
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2022 9:59 am    Post subject:

Halep caught doping. Facing a 4 yr ban. She says she’s innocent. She says the truth will come out.

Apparently, she also got ringworms in the Dominican Republic.

Quote:
Former No. 1-ranked player Simona Halep has been provisionally suspended by the International Tennis Integrity Agency and faces a possible four-year ban from tennis after failing a drug test during the US Open.

The ITIA announced the suspension for Halep, a two-time Grand Slam champion who is currently No. 9 in the WTA rankings, on Friday, saying she tested positive for the banned substance roxadustat.

Saying she was "confused and betrayed" by the situation, Halep tweeted that she would start a "fight for the truth" and noted that her test showed "an extremely low quantity."

"I will fight until the end to prove that I never knowingly took any prohibited substance and I have faith that sooner or later, the truth will come out," Halep wrote.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2022 11:42 am    Post subject:

What she was caught taking was basically EPO. I don't believe her denial for an instant. We'll see, I guess.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2022 7:52 am    Post subject:

The Djoker is back in Australia:

Quote:
Reports: Novak Djokovic to be allowed to play Australian Open

MELBOURNE, Australia -- Novak Djokovic is set to be granted a visa to play in next year's Australian Open despite his high-profile deportation in January.

The Australian Broadcasting Corp. on Tuesday said it had confirmed newspaper reports that the immigration minister had overturned a potential three-year exclusion period for Djokovic.

The Australian Border Force has previously said an exclusion period could be waived in certain circumstances -- and that each case would be assessed on its merits.

Immigration Minister Andrew Giles' office declined comment on privacy grounds, meaning any announcement on Djokovic's visa status would have to come from the 35-year-old Serbian tennis star.


Let the chase continue:

Quote:
Career Grand Slams:

1) Nadal: 22
2) Djoker: 21
3) Federer: 20

4) Sampras: 14
5) Emerson: 12

6) Laver: 11
....Bjorn Borg: 11

8) Bill Tilden: 10

9) Fred Perry: 8
....Ken Rosewell: 8
....Jimmy Connors: 8
....Ivan Lendl: 8
....Agassi: 8
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 1:15 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Novak Djokovic ties Roger Federer with sixth ATP Finals title

TURIN, Italy -- Novak Djokovic claimed a record-equaling sixth ATP Finals title by beating the third-seeded Casper Ruud on Sunday to top a fantastic finish to the season for the Serb.

Djokovic won 7-5, 6-3 to secure his first title at the event since 2015 and match Roger Federer's record.

The 35-year-old Djokovic, who had lost his two previous finals at the event, raised his arms out and smiled broadly after sealing the match with an ace.

Djokovic became the oldest champion at the prestigious year-end tournament and also earned the largest payday in tennis history as he walked away with $4.7 million for claiming the ATP Finals trophy undefeated


Quote:
It was Ruud's fourth defeat in a major championship match this year after also losing finals at Miami, Roland Garros and the US Open. Ruud has never won a set against Djokovic in four meetings.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 6:36 am    Post subject:

Djokovic wins Australian Open

Career majors count is now:

Quote:
22) Rafael Nadal
Novak Djokovic

20) Roger Federer

14) Pete Sampras

12) Roy Emerson

11) Rod Laver
Björn Borg

10) Bill Tilden
Fred Perry
Ken Rosewall

8) Jimmy Connors
Ivan Lendl
Andre Agass
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 10:33 am    Post subject:

IMHO greatest players of all time.
Rafa
fed
serena
Djok
Pete
Graff
hingis
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 9:08 pm    Post subject:

Djokovic booted from Australia last year after he was detained for days - no points
Wimbledon - no points for his win
Can't play in US big tourneys leading to US Open - no points
Can't play US Open - no points
Number 1 again today. All those points and gets to number 1 with Alcaraz not around.
Guy is without peer, the GOAT. It's too bad Rafa couldn't be more healthy to play more than he did during his career, but Djokovic undeniable.
Good for women's tour that Sabalenka got calm and overcame herself and found a new level. She, Iga, Rybakina are a good trio above all the rest right now with Iga still a the top. Would be good to see Coco Gauff progress to there someday.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:04 pm    Post subject:

I now have Djoker inching back ahead of Rafa for GOAT status now that they are tied once again in the major count, as I think the rest of his resume is better. He's 30-29 against Rafa, has won 1 more title overall, more Masters titles, more year-end #1 rankings, and more overall weeks (by a wide margin) at #1. I think they are close enough, though, that a Rafa win at Roland Garros would tip the scales back in his favor.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:45 am    Post subject:

Statistically Djoker will end up the GOAT.

For what the overall impact for tennis, and all the rest that he brought, have a hard time seeing it be anyone but Federer.

Because what Djoker is going to do is measurable, he will have the strongest GOAT argument, but I feel Federer not only in his athletic prime, but overall in what he did to impact the game, his peers, the fans, the number of SF/Finals recoreds he has in slams etc, that's the GOAT for me.

Russell has 11 titles, but Jordan won 6. What Jordan did for the game, the generation, his peers, that's what makes him the GOAT in many eyes. I see it the same way for Federer, personally.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:24 pm    Post subject:

Some more amazing stats about Djokovic:

Quote:
Here's the majors count by the end of 2010 (with age in parentheses):

- Federer (29) - 16
- Nadal (24) - 9
- Djokovic (23) - 1

This is what Djokovic has done in the 12+ years since:

- Djokovic - 21
- Nadal - 13
- Federer - 4


Quote:
Here's what each player did after turning 29:

- Djokovic - 11
- Nadal - 8
- Federer - 4


Djokovic really started late.

I always wonder what would the count be if Djokovic and Federer were at the same age. Djokovic being 6 years younger than Federer really played a major role once Djokovic hit his prime in 2011 and Federer hit 30.

Nadal got most of his majors (14/22) at the French Open so it didn't really matter.

Federer and Djokovic's game were more aligned with the same surfaces: hard courts and grass.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 3:16 pm    Post subject:

To discuss some of what wolfpac and LBP brought up in the last two posts...

Yes Russell won 11 titles, but that was in an era where there were far, far fewer teams. Jordan was competing against, what, 27 other teams or something like that? Djokovic, Nadal, and Federer have competed for the same number of majors each year, and the tour has been pretty much the same throughout their careers.

For me, Roger is the clear third choice and I personally don't think he has an argument as the GOAT any longer. He has 2 less majors (by far the most important criteria), despite racking up the majority of his when both Djoker and Nadal were not at their top form yet. Once they reached that, Federer lagged in the major count, despite still being in his physical prime for many of those years. Despite getting off to that early start in the major count and despite being the unquestioned #1 player during that period, he still doesn't hold the record for most weeks at #1 or year-end #1's. Those records are held by Djokovic. He also has a losing record against both Nadal and Djokovic, with the ledger especially in Nadal's favor there.

As I mentioned before when comparing Djokovic to Nadal, the Serb has a better H2H record (30-29), a 15-13 H2H edge in all finals, more Masters titles (by 1), way more weeks at #1 (374 to 209), more year-end #1's (7 to 5), and more overall titles (by 1). In addition, Djokovic has made 33 Slam finals, which is 3 more than Nadal, and he also has 11 semifinal appearances where he lost, with Nadal having 8 such appearances. So Djokovic reached the semifinals or better 44 times in majors, with Rafa at 38. Nadal has the edge in record at majors at 11-7, and 5-4 in major finals. Of course, Nadal's edge in majors and major finals largely comes from the French Open, which brings up that long-debated issue of Nadal's dominance on clay. Some use it as a mark against him, while others go the opposite route. Nadal also has an Olympic gold medal in singles, with Djoker having none.

Add it all up, and for me, the only argument Nadal has as the GOAT is if he finishes ahead of Djokovic in the major count, which is my most important criteria by far. If it's tied, I think you have to go Djokovic's way because he has the better body of work, with weeks at #1 especially standing out as glaring. And if Djokovic ends up winning more majors, I think it's pretty cut-and-dry.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 3:29 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Some more amazing stats about Djokovic:

Quote:
Here's the majors count by the end of 2010 (with age in parentheses):

- Federer (29) - 16
- Nadal (24) - 9
- Djokovic (23) - 1

This is what Djokovic has done in the 12+ years since:

- Djokovic - 21
- Nadal - 13
- Federer - 4


Quote:
Here's what each player did after turning 29:

- Djokovic - 11
- Nadal - 8
- Federer - 4


Djokovic really started late.

I always wonder what would the count be if Djokovic and Federer were at the same age. Djokovic being 6 years younger than Federer really played a major role once Djokovic hit his prime in 2011 and Federer hit 30.

Nadal got most of his majors (14/22) at the French Open so it didn't really matter.

Federer and Djokovic's game were more aligned with the same surfaces: hard courts and grass.

Rather than Djokovic starting late, I'd say Rafa started really early, 18 in Slams, Djoker about 24, Roger with the more traditional 22-23. Plus Djoker had these two in front so - huge obstacles in every aspect - just like Rafa with Federer.

Re if Djokovic and Federer started same time, interesting question. I think Djokovic would not only not have slams early on, he wouldn't have had atp titles because Federer was cleaning up everything 23-26. Djokovic might have gotten more frustrated at an early stage before figuring out his health stuff, his mindset, and the other two. But it might have been a while longer because of the emotional impact of coming up short all the time to both. I think Federer and Nadal basically win as they did, but Federer gets nothing at all on the back end, and his mental walkabout that he did after winning the French for the first time would just have happened sooner. I think Rafa ends up the GOAT in that scenario, unless Djokovic simply got over the early losing sooner and faster than he actually did. Who knows, but in that scenario, I think he puts distance from the other two, more than he actually has or probably will end up doing.
Healthy Rafa, and he puts distance, plenty, between him and the rest. I think he gets more of everything, Wimbledon included.
Only scenario I see Federer as coming out on top is if Rafa wasn't around to take (all) Frenches away from him before Novak got going. The other two just figured him out and were better physically the way the game and surfaces are today, which emphasize stamina long points baseline endurance. Actually another scenario is if the surfaces were faster courts, he takes everything except the French for most of his whole career.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:56 pm    Post subject:

Novak is excellent on faster courts. His best tournament is the fastest court on the tour (AO), and he's always been great at the ATP finals and Shanghai, which also have been very fast.

It's a fun thought exercise. What would things look like if they never slowed down most of the courts, including Wimbledon?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:03 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
To discuss some of what wolfpac and LBP brought up in the last two posts...

Yes Russell won 11 titles, but that was in an era where there were far, far fewer teams. Jordan was competing against, what, 27 other teams or something like that? Djokovic, Nadal, and Federer have competed for the same number of majors each year, and the tour has been pretty much the same throughout their careers.

For me, Roger is the clear third choice and I personally don't think he has an argument as the GOAT any longer. He has 2 less majors (by far the most important criteria), despite racking up the majority of his when both Djoker and Nadal were not at their top form yet. Once they reached that, Federer lagged in the major count, despite still being in his physical prime for many of those years. Despite getting off to that early start in the major count and despite being the unquestioned #1 player during that period, he still doesn't hold the record for most weeks at #1 or year-end #1's. Those records are held by Djokovic. He also has a losing record against both Nadal and Djokovic, with the ledger especially in Nadal's favor there.

As I mentioned before when comparing Djokovic to Nadal, the Serb has a better H2H record (30-29), a 15-13 H2H edge in all finals, more Masters titles (by 1), way more weeks at #1 (374 to 209), more year-end #1's (7 to 5), and more overall titles (by 1). In addition, Djokovic has made 33 Slam finals, which is 3 more than Nadal, and he also has 11 semifinal appearances where he lost, with Nadal having 8 such appearances. So Djokovic reached the semifinals or better 44 times in majors, with Rafa at 38. Nadal has the edge in record at majors at 11-7, and 5-4 in major finals. Of course, Nadal's edge in majors and major finals largely comes from the French Open, which brings up that long-debated issue of Nadal's dominance on clay. Some use it as a mark against him, while others go the opposite route. Nadal also has an Olympic gold medal in singles, with Djoker having none.

Add it all up, and for me, the only argument Nadal has as the GOAT is if he finishes ahead of Djokovic in the major count, which is my most important criteria by far. If it's tied, I think you have to go Djokovic's way because he has the better body of work, with weeks at #1 especially standing out as glaring. And if Djokovic ends up winning more majors, I think it's pretty cut-and-dry.

I agree with the Federer conclusion. Most grace and artistry. Dominance over 4-5 years unparalleled. But clear number 3. Bizarre coincidence that his particular kryptonite just happened to show up at age 18 right during Federer's young prime. But Nadal and Djokovic end up distinctly better to me. I have Djokovic as GOAT even with one less Slam than Nadal mainly because of the 4 consecutive Slams thing (big deal but forgotten apparently) and the one final Slam match away from the calendar year Grand Slam. Most year end number 1 too helps. Others too, but those are the biggest. Two slams as I said, and yeah, that's enough for me for GOAT Rafa, even if it's more French titles.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:10 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Once they reached that, Federer lagged in the major count, despite still being in his physical prime for many of those years.


I just want to address the part about Federer still being in his physical prime when Djokovic and Nadal reached their peak.

If you look at my chart above, Federer really stopped winning titles after age 29 while Nadal and Djokovic continued winning titles after age 29.

I think Federer was at the clear disadvantage vs. the other 2.

Federer at 29 was facing peak Djokovic (23) and peak Nadal (24). Not just in their primes, but at their peaks.

Conversely, when Djokovic hit 29, he faced far less competition in Nadal (30) and Federer (35). This has allowed Djokovic to continue to dominate the sport after 29.

That's why I always wonder, if the roles were reversed and Federer at 29 was facing Nadal (30) and Djokovic (35), would he have won more after age 29?

Look at what Djokovic gets to face now at (35). No Federer. And Nadal is broken down at 36.

Federer at 35 was facing Djokovic (29) and Nadal (30). Would a 35 yr old Djokovic be winning the AO this yr vs. a 29 year old Federer and a 30 yr old Nadal?

These 3 are so close in talent that the age discrepancy gives the younger player such a huge advantage.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:30 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Once they reached that, Federer lagged in the major count, despite still being in his physical prime for many of those years.


I just want to address the part about Federer still being in his physical prime when Djokovic and Nadal reached their peak.

If you look at my chart above, Federer really stopped winning titles after age 29 while Nadal and Djokovic continued winning titles after age 29.

I think Federer was at the clear disadvantage vs. the other 2.

Federer at 29 was facing peak Djokovic (23) and peak Nadal (24). Not just in their primes, but at their peaks.

Conversely, when Djokovic hit 29, he faced far less competition in Nadal (30) and Federer (35). This has allowed Djokovic to continue to dominate the sport after 29.

That's why I always wonder, if the roles were reversed and Federer at 29 was facing Nadal (30) and Djokovic (35), would he have won more after age 29?

Look at what Djokovic gets to face now at (35). No Federer. And Nadal is broken down at 36.

Federer at 35 was facing Djokovic (29) and Nadal (30). Would a 35 yr old Djokovic be winning the AO this yr vs. a 29 year old Federer and a 30 yr old Nadal?

These 3 are so close in talent that the age discrepancy gives the younger player such a huge advantage.
Disagree.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:47 pm    Post subject:

focus wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Once they reached that, Federer lagged in the major count, despite still being in his physical prime for many of those years.


I just want to address the part about Federer still being in his physical prime when Djokovic and Nadal reached their peak.

If you look at my chart above, Federer really stopped winning titles after age 29 while Nadal and Djokovic continued winning titles after age 29.

I think Federer was at the clear disadvantage vs. the other 2.

Federer at 29 was facing peak Djokovic (23) and peak Nadal (24). Not just in their primes, but at their peaks.

Conversely, when Djokovic hit 29, he faced far less competition in Nadal (30) and Federer (35). This has allowed Djokovic to continue to dominate the sport after 29.

That's why I always wonder, if the roles were reversed and Federer at 29 was facing Nadal (30) and Djokovic (35), would he have won more after age 29?

Look at what Djokovic gets to face now at (35). No Federer. And Nadal is broken down at 36.

Federer at 35 was facing Djokovic (29) and Nadal (30). Would a 35 yr old Djokovic be winning the AO this yr vs. a 29 year old Federer and a 30 yr old Nadal?

These 3 are so close in talent that the age discrepancy gives the younger player such a huge advantage.
Disagree.


Nadal, beginning with the French Open in 2010 (at the age of 24), won 4 of 5 grand slams. This was the only time in his career that he won 4 out of 5, or 3 straight.

Then, Djokovic, beginning with the AO in 2011 (at age 23), won 4 of 5 grand slams thereafter. (You could argue that Djokovic was even better in 2015-16 when he won 4 straight, and 5-6. But, I think the competition was less with a 34-35 yr old Federer and a 29-30 yr old Nadal).

If that wasn't their peaks, it's pretty close to their peaks.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:37 am    Post subject:

Federer is the most graceful, artistic player we've ever seen. But as good as his defense was -- and it was good, and I consider defense to be a combination of movement and how the ball comes back over the net when you do get to it -- it was clearly not as good as that of Djokovic or Nadal. Physicality and movement have become much more important as tennis has evolved, and this is where Federer wasn't quite on the level of the other two.

When it comes to Djokovic vs. Nadal, the only reason it's still so close imo is Nadal's mental edge and competitive drive. He has the edge there over Djokovic or, frankly, anyone that has ever played. Djokovic, for me, is the most complete player in history. He had a relatively so-so serve when he was young, but once he ramped that up, it's become a major weapon. Incredible consistency and enough power on both wings from the baseline. Very good volleyer. Absolutely insane mover/defender. Best return of serve in the history of the game. Excellent touch on drop shots. His biggest weakness, from what I've seen, is that his overhead is a little shaky (Lord can I relate!), from what you'd expect from a pro or the possible GOAT, but typically it's enough to get the job done and you're so far ahead in the point on those, usually, that it hasn't really cost him much in his career.

I know Djokovic will get docked points by many for his on-court antics at times (the DQ at the US Open, breaking rackets, etc), and certainly for his vaccine stance, and some will note that Nadal and Federer were/are better sportsmen. That may be, but as a player, I don't think there's been anyone better than Djokovic when looking at his body of work.

For now. Hey, the French Open could change things for me if Rafa wins it!
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 8:20 am    Post subject:

Rafa currently third in odds to win the French open:

Quote:
Djokovic: 1.75 to 1
Alcaraz: 2.5 to 1
Nadal: 3 to 1

https://www.oddschecker.com/tennis/french-open/mens



Quote:
2023 MEN'S FRENCH OPEN ODDS

Novak Djokovic +162
Carlos Alcaraz +162
Rafael Nadal +250
Stefanos Tsitsipas +650



2023 WOMEN'S FRENCH OPEN ODDS

Iga Swiatek -110

Ons Jabeur +1000
Caroline Garcia +1200
Maria Sakkari +1200
Paula Badosa +1200
Jessica Pegula +1600
Cori Gauff +1600

https://www.vegasinsider.com/tennis/odds/french-open/
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:35 pm    Post subject:

Djokovic played the AO with a 3cm hamstring tear. These guys are just built different.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:07 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Rafa currently third in odds to win the French open:

Quote:
Djokovic: 1.75 to 1
Alcaraz: 2.5 to 1
Nadal: 3 to 1

https://www.oddschecker.com/tennis/french-open/mens



Quote:
2023 MEN'S FRENCH OPEN ODDS

Novak Djokovic +162
Carlos Alcaraz +162
Rafael Nadal +250
Stefanos Tsitsipas +650



2023 WOMEN'S FRENCH OPEN ODDS

Iga Swiatek -110

Ons Jabeur +1000
Caroline Garcia +1200
Maria Sakkari +1200
Paula Badosa +1200
Jessica Pegula +1600
Cori Gauff +1600

https://www.vegasinsider.com/tennis/odds/french-open/
I guess they think there is a good chance he won't play. Otherwise, he's as big a favorite as anyone ever is at any tournament.
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