LA TIMES: 75 GREATEST LAKERS
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GOODRICH25
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 5:24 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
GOODRICH25 wrote:
Mikan, Worthy, Wilt above James. Whoever put Jim Pollard so low should have his Lakers fan license revoked. Shameful


It looks like the voters didn't quite know what to do with the older guys from the Minneapolis days. But most people have that problem. That said, I think they did a better job with the Minneapolis guys then I commonly see all these types of lists.

Otherwise, it looks like the voters clearly gave a lot of emphasis into Lebron being the top guy on a championship team. I don't find that unreasonable myself, even if I wouldn't have put Lebron quite as high as they did.


I can understand James from that point of view, i think an argument can be made for him to be as high, but i still disagree with it and i think many Lakers fans do as well. The arguments against are much better imo

As for Pollard, even if you dont really know how to treat those early guys as a whole, but amongst them atleast make it right. Pollard made All-NBA 1st team twice in the first 2 title seasons (plus All-NBL 1st in the NBL title season). And he made All-NBA 2nd team twice in the next 3 title seasons. He won the most rings together wih Mikan, 5+1NBL. He played 8 seasons for the Lakers, compared to Martins 6 and Lovellettes 4. Mikkelsen played 10 seasons, made 4 All-NBA 2nd teams, of which 2 in the title seasons. He was the 2nd best player on the 1959 Lakers with Baylor, making the finals (losing to Boston, with 21/12 from Mikkelsen), and eliminating the Hawks of Pettit, Hagan and... Lovellette and Martin. Both Pollard and Mikkelsen played for the Lakers all their career. Martin and Lovellette (who was a rookie and came off the bench in the last MPLS title) both had 0 All NBA selections in the championship seasons, and both took on bigger roles after Mikan and Pollard retired/declined, and also they had their best years playing elsewhere.

Its clear that Pollard is #2 behind Mikan those years, and Mikkelsen is #3. As a Laker purely, Martin is #4, but if you ignore number of rings and more years for Martin, then Lovellette has a claim as the better player of the two, or top dog of the team for a couple of years. But the top 3 any way you look its 1. Mikan 2. Pollard 3. Mikkelsen
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Halflife
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 6:58 pm    Post subject:

Mbanga is more deserving.
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 10:48 pm    Post subject:

GOODRICH25 wrote:
activeverb wrote:
GOODRICH25 wrote:
Mikan, Worthy, Wilt above James. Whoever put Jim Pollard so low should have his Lakers fan license revoked. Shameful


It looks like the voters didn't quite know what to do with the older guys from the Minneapolis days. But most people have that problem. That said, I think they did a better job with the Minneapolis guys then I commonly see all these types of lists.

Otherwise, it looks like the voters clearly gave a lot of emphasis into Lebron being the top guy on a championship team. I don't find that unreasonable myself, even if I wouldn't have put Lebron quite as high as they did.


I can understand James from that point of view, i think an argument can be made for him to be as high, but i still disagree with it and i think many Lakers fans do as well. The arguments against are much better imo

As for Pollard, even if you dont really know how to treat those early guys as a whole, but amongst them atleast make it right. Pollard made All-NBA 1st team twice in the first 2 title seasons (plus All-NBL 1st in the NBL title season). And he made All-NBA 2nd team twice in the next 3 title seasons. He won the most rings together wih Mikan, 5+1NBL. He played 8 seasons for the Lakers, compared to Martins 6 and Lovellettes 4. Mikkelsen played 10 seasons, made 4 All-NBA 2nd teams, of which 2 in the title seasons. He was the 2nd best player on the 1959 Lakers with Baylor, making the finals (losing to Boston, with 21/12 from Mikkelsen), and eliminating the Hawks of Pettit, Hagan and... Lovellette and Martin. Both Pollard and Mikkelsen played for the Lakers all their career. Martin and Lovellette (who was a rookie and came off the bench in the last MPLS title) both had 0 All NBA selections in the championship seasons, and both took on bigger roles after Mikan and Pollard retired/declined, and also they had their best years playing elsewhere.

Its clear that Pollard is #2 behind Mikan those years, and Mikkelsen is #3. As a Laker purely, Martin is #4, but if you ignore number of rings and more years for Martin, then Lovellette has a claim as the better player of the two, or top dog of the team for a couple of years. But the top 3 any way you look its 1. Mikan 2. Pollard 3. Mikkelsen


It's a mystery to me why they put Lovellette so high and Pollard so low. That is definitely one of the flaws of this list. I really only know Pollard, Mikkelsen, and Martin from what I've read about them. I've seen a lot of varied opinions about how they stacked up against each other. Generally, I'd say Mikkelsen is regarded as the top one of the three, with Pollard and Martin about the same.

As far as Lebron, he's a divisive figure, and he's particularly divisive at this moment in time when fans are generally upset with him and upset with the team. I would have put a little lower myself, but not that much lower.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 10:52 pm    Post subject:

DLaker wrote:
I love magic and grew up on the showtime Lakers, but just don't understand why Kobe is not the greatest Laker.

I would say Magic's impact is more on the times he played for the Lakers compared to Kobe, but Magic's career was cut short. Kobe played 20 yrs in P&G well beloved in the whole world not just the city of LA and his peers. Both got us the same amount of title. Stat wise Kobe's career is way superior. Even now almost 3 yrs after his death, my heart aches for him not being around anymore. Placing Magic as 1 just does not feel right to me, a tie for #1 I can accept, because Magic was the Lakers back in his playing days.

Kobe is Laker's Career Leader is Games, Minutes, FG, FT & Stl, Points, 2nd in Ast & Def Reb. 3rd on Reb, 5th in Blk and I don't even know how many of the playoff stat he is first on. Miss you Kobe.


I think you can make a good case for either Kobe or Magic as #1. Personally, I would put Magic there because he put Lakers basketball on the map. I don't have any trouble with someone who puts Kobe #1, though. Heck, if someone made an argument for Kareem as #1, I wouldn't quibble. They were all amazing.
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kwase
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 12:38 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
DLaker wrote:
I love magic and grew up on the showtime Lakers, but just don't understand why Kobe is not the greatest Laker.

I would say Magic's impact is more on the times he played for the Lakers compared to Kobe, but Magic's career was cut short. Kobe played 20 yrs in P&G well beloved in the whole world not just the city of LA and his peers. Both got us the same amount of title. Stat wise Kobe's career is way superior. Even now almost 3 yrs after his death, my heart aches for him not being around anymore. Placing Magic as 1 just does not feel right to me, a tie for #1 I can accept, because Magic was the Lakers back in his playing days.

Kobe is Laker's Career Leader is Games, Minutes, FG, FT & Stl, Points, 2nd in Ast & Def Reb. 3rd on Reb, 5th in Blk and I don't even know how many of the playoff stat he is first on. Miss you Kobe.


I think you can make a good case for either Kobe or Magic as #1. Personally, I would put Magic there because he put Lakers basketball on the map. I don't have any trouble with someone who puts Kobe #1, though. Heck, if someone made an argument for Kareem as #1, I wouldn't quibble. They were all amazing.




The same argument can be made for Jerry West and Elgin Baylor putting the Lakers on the map, as far as Los Angeles is concerned. Chick Hearn is on record saying how difficult it was competing with the Rams and Dodgers as a draw in L.A. when they first moved from Minneapolis.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:54 pm    Post subject:

kwase wrote:
activeverb wrote:
DLaker wrote:
I love magic and grew up on the showtime Lakers, but just don't understand why Kobe is not the greatest Laker.

I would say Magic's impact is more on the times he played for the Lakers compared to Kobe, but Magic's career was cut short. Kobe played 20 yrs in P&G well beloved in the whole world not just the city of LA and his peers. Both got us the same amount of title. Stat wise Kobe's career is way superior. Even now almost 3 yrs after his death, my heart aches for him not being around anymore. Placing Magic as 1 just does not feel right to me, a tie for #1 I can accept, because Magic was the Lakers back in his playing days.

Kobe is Laker's Career Leader is Games, Minutes, FG, FT & Stl, Points, 2nd in Ast & Def Reb. 3rd on Reb, 5th in Blk and I don't even know how many of the playoff stat he is first on. Miss you Kobe.


I think you can make a good case for either Kobe or Magic as #1. Personally, I would put Magic there because he put Lakers basketball on the map. I don't have any trouble with someone who puts Kobe #1, though. Heck, if someone made an argument for Kareem as #1, I wouldn't quibble. They were all amazing.




The same argument can be made for Jerry West and Elgin Baylor putting the Lakers on the map, as far as Los Angeles is concerned. Chick Hearn is on record saying how difficult it was competing with the Rams and Dodgers as a draw in L.A. when they first moved from Minneapolis.


Baylor and West made Los Angeles aware of the Lakers, but Magic made Los Angeles love the Lakers.
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CabinCreek44
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:47 am    Post subject:

Respectfully to all involved this “75 greatest Lakers” thing seems doomed to disappoint. If they really wanted to hash it out, there wouldn’t be nearly as many “nominees”. Their proposed list of 75 is so bloated it’s hilarious.

Someone could spend a long time whittling the list down to something much more workable and realistic, but why bother? Not to nitpick anyone but case in point Lucius Allen. He was a terrific player for UCLA and the Milwaukee Bucks, but the Lakers? I don’t think so. And not singling him out, his name was just one of many that jumped out at me. And there were many others.

This strikes me as the Times just manufacturing a “story” or book, etc to catch a few eyeballs and sell some product. Maybe a more worthwhile endeavor would be more welcome. Just my. $.02
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aprevo15
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 9:07 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
I know it's the 75th anniversary and such, but they really should have cut this list off earlier. By the time we got to Kyle Kuzma, it was a stretch. When the list came to Devean George, it was silly. But then comes Connie Hawkins, and you know that the shark has been jumped.


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