Alec Baldwin accidentally kills film crew member with prop gun (UPDATE 4/20/23: Charges dropped)
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:14 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Even if convicted, I really don't see Baldwin getting any real jail time. It will likely be a brief sentence or house arrest, and possibly even suspended.


If he's convicted of the 2nd type of involuntary manslaughter with the firearm enhancement, how would he get around the mandatory 5 year sentence?

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The second type, known as involuntary manslaughter in the commission of a lawful act, requires that there was more than just simple negligence involved and includes a firearm enhancement, or a mandatory additional penalty.

While the manslaughter charge itself only carries an 18-month sentence and a $5,000 fine, the enhancement necessitates a minimum five-year jail sentence.


There was definitely a firearm involved, so the enhancement seems to apply.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:49 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Black20Ice wrote:
Quote:
BNO News Live @ BNODesk
Alec Baldwin, if convicted of involuntary manslaughter, would face a mandatory 5-year sentence
11:08 AM · Jan 19, 2023


https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1616105223432404992?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1616105223432404992%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

He demanded a REAL gun was used for authenticty.
He refused gun safety training.
He was a producer on a set that already had known safety issues.
He didn't do what is required by his contract, required by SAG safety bulletins which is to treat the gun as though it is loaded with live ammo. Actors are supposed to have it checked in front of him at each hand off.
He pointed straight at her and fired. You NEVER do that, even on a movie set.

As the prosecutor said if any of those that were charged had done their job, she'd be alive.


The bolded will be key to a conviction. The prosecution will need to establish that as an exec-producer, he had an added responsibility over the safety of the set that was beyond that of simply being an actor (who would be dependent on the armorer and the AD) plus, that he was responsible for the actions of the armor and AD etc. As some may recall, at the time of the incident, the production was under fire from the union crew for cutting many corners and ignoring required turnaround times, appropriate crew staffing and a few other things.

The sentencing will be dependent on how much culpability they set upon Baldwin versus how much shared responsibility falls upon the rest of the crew under him. Even if convicted, I really don't see Baldwin getting any real jail time. It will likely be a brief sentence or house arrest, and possibly even suspended.


I'm neither an attorney nor in law enforcement, but having sat on criminal & civil juries, it'd be hard to convince me that a tragic accident makes Baldwin criminally liable.

The armorer? Sure.
The 1st AD? Possibly, because he's the check on the armorer and the safety officer.
The Executive Producer? That is a far stretch. Particularly when he'll have three to five million dollars worth of legal representation.

Now, civil liability? Baldwin, the Production Company & insurance company will have to write 8 figures worth of checks.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:57 am    Post subject:

Quote:
In the aftermath of the shooting, the authorities found five additional live rounds on the set, including on top of the cart where props were kept and in a belt that Mr. Baldwin was wearing as a costume piece.

The investigation by the Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office did not answer a key question of the case: how live ammunition ended up on a movie set.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/19/arts/rust-shooting-charges-alec-baldwin.html


Wow, he had live rounds on his belt.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 11:01 am    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
I'm neither an attorney nor in law enforcement, but having sat on criminal & civil juries, it'd be hard to convince me that a tragic accident makes Baldwin criminally liable.

The armorer? Sure.
The 1st AD? Possibly, because he's the check on the armorer and the safety officer.
The Executive Producer? That is a far stretch. Particularly when he'll have three to five million dollars worth of legal representation.

Now, civil liability? Baldwin, the Production Company & insurance company will have to write 8 figures worth of checks.


Some more things to think about:

Quote:
- crew members who have accused the production of not properly adhering to safety protocols.

- there had been previous accidental weapons discharges before: "the filming of gunfight scenes was played “very fast and loose,” citing two accidental weapons discharges."

- he hired an inexperienced armorer

- the armorer claims she filled 2 roles on set: "had previously said she filled two roles on the “Rust” set — as armorer and props assistant — which made it difficult for her to focus fully on her job as armorer."

- there were rumors of people on set using the prop guns for target practice (possibly on that day).

- industry standard says an actor checks the gun (or at least watched the gun being checked in front of his own eyes).

- industry standard also says never point a gun at another person, ever.


At what point is the head person in charge supposed to do something? If not Baldwin, who?

It seems pretty clear someone in charge should have done something.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 10:08 pm    Post subject:

Baldwin is responsible for what he did and what happened. If convicted, I would think he would get some type of light sentence (probably serve no more than 12-18 months) in minimum security/safe environment. Plus probation, community service, court fees and maybe a fine. Decent chance he even gets pardoned if this all goes down while Biden is still in office.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 10:52 am    Post subject:

Baldwin catches a break:

ALEC BALDWIN
WINS CRITICAL BATTLE IN 'RUST' CASE ...
D.A. Drops Gun Enhancement Charge


The Santa Fe County D.A. has gotta be a little embarrassed today ... dropping a key charge against Alec Baldwin that now means even if convicted he might not spend any time behind bars.

The D.A. dropped the gun enhancement charge in the case ... this after Baldwin's lawyer filed a motion excoriating prosecutors for going after the actor using a law that didn't apply.

As we reported, Baldwin has been charged with involuntary manslaughter in the death of Halyna Hutchins. The D.A. initially tacked on the gun enhancement charge -- i.e., using a gun to commit the crime. Problem is, at the time of the shooting, New Mexico law provided a gun enhancement charge could only apply if the gun was "brandished" -- meaning the gun was displayed with intent to intimidate or injure a person. That's clearly not the case with Baldwin.

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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 11:08 am    Post subject:

^

wow, embarrassing
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 11:57 am    Post subject:

Gun enhancement for what in Baldwins mind was a PROP Gun..not possible

The biggest thing that totally disgust me and baffles the mind is how there is not a standard for on set guns to never have the ability to fire a live round.. this is insane and suicidal in its own right

Probably sounds lame but someone should sue the screen actors guild or whoever allows fly by night guns and ammo crews to be hired and be such flunkies as to hand off a gun with bullets in it

A gun that never should have had the ability to fire live rounds.... If I was an actor/actress I would be so afraid of the guns potential that I would personally triple check it before ever handling it

Really Sad for her family that such preventable mistakes and carelessness took her life
Nobody will be held criminally liable for her death.
Alec and his company and the ammo crew should all face DEEP civil penalties
I would revoke all their licenses for future productions until an undetermined future date

The people most responsible are the ones who put the live rounds in the prop gun and forgot to take them out/exchange them.. their stupidity is so dangerous they should have been incarcerated since the day of the murder.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 12:10 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Baldwin catches a break:

ALEC BALDWIN
WINS CRITICAL BATTLE IN 'RUST' CASE ...
D.A. Drops Gun Enhancement Charge


The Santa Fe County D.A. has gotta be a little embarrassed today ... dropping a key charge against Alec Baldwin that now means even if convicted he might not spend any time behind bars.

The D.A. dropped the gun enhancement charge in the case ... this after Baldwin's lawyer filed a motion excoriating prosecutors for going after the actor using a law that didn't apply.

As we reported, Baldwin has been charged with involuntary manslaughter in the death of Halyna Hutchins. The D.A. initially tacked on the gun enhancement charge -- i.e., using a gun to commit the crime. Problem is, at the time of the shooting, New Mexico law provided a gun enhancement charge could only apply if the gun was "brandished" -- meaning the gun was displayed with intent to intimidate or injure a person. That's clearly not the case with Baldwin.


"Thisssss....ulll-LAW-YER...."

"God was on the set of Rust that day and he doesn't like to be second-guessed..."


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:33 am    Post subject:

All charges dropped, according to ABC.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:36 am    Post subject:

Wilt wrote:
All charges dropped, according to ABC.


Link
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DaMuleRules
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:53 am    Post subject:

Wilt wrote:
All charges dropped, according to ABC.


Wow. If they are letting him of the hook as the Exec Producer, that's a real blow to the safety of production crews in the industry going forward. No accountability for those at the top in not good.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 1:53 pm    Post subject:

Wilt wrote:
All charges dropped, according to ABC.


Holy (bleep), wowo
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 2:29 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Wilt wrote:
All charges dropped, according to ABC.


Wow. If they are letting him of the hook as the Exec Producer, that's a real blow to the safety of production crews in the industry going forward. No accountability for those at the top in not good.


Do you think this is a career ending incident for Baldwin, or will he remain as prominent as before? Which is worse career-wise between this and the Will Smith slap?
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 4:10 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Wilt wrote:
All charges dropped, according to ABC.


Wow. If they are letting him of the hook as the Exec Producer, that's a real blow to the safety of production crews in the industry going forward. No accountability for those at the top in not good.


Do you think this is a career ending incident for Baldwin, or will he remain as prominent as before? Which is worse career-wise between this and the Will Smith slap?


Baldwin’s career was already dead. What’s the last significant role he had?
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 4:11 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Wilt wrote:
All charges dropped, according to ABC.


Wow. If they are letting him of the hook as the Exec Producer, that's a real blow to the safety of production crews in the industry going forward. No accountability for those at the top in not good.


Do you think this is a career ending incident for Baldwin, or will he remain as prominent as before? Which is worse career-wise between this and the Will Smith slap?


Considering that Baldwin won't be charged as the EP for running a dangerous set and Rush is resuming production, I think Baldwin will be fine. He can continue making his own projects now that he won't have this hanging over him and I'm sure he'll get more acting roles.

And as we have seen, "The Slap" was really only a temporarily blip for Smith. Other than when Rock released his recent special, the Oscar's incident has all but disappeared from people's mind.

As for "worse", of course being involved in an on-set death is a worse legacy, but Baldwin will be fine in the long run.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2023 8:19 am    Post subject:

Baldwin has to live with the knowledge that he took a life, accidental or not. I don't know but am of a mind that has to bother him now and will for some time to come. Have any taken that into consideration? I haven't followed this thread. Has that been discussed?
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2023 8:21 am    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:

Baldwin’s career was already dead. What’s the last significant role he had?


Acting as Trump on SNL
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2023 8:39 am    Post subject:

Baldwin's career is not dead as long he is in the position to create and run his own projects, which he will be given this "exoneration".

Now, how successful he may be at that remains to be seen, but Rust will resume production, and it is quite likely that upon release, it does relatively well given society's morbid curiosity. I wouldn't be shocked at all if enough people watch Rust due that curiosity to see Baldwin's production company see a return on their investment.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 6:05 pm    Post subject:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/alec-baldwin-indicted-manslaughter-charge-rust-shooting-rcna134564

Wow, indicted again. How credible are the charges, and how likely is it that he will actually go to prison?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2024 9:55 am    Post subject:

NMLaker wrote:
even blanks can kill if close enough.


Jon-Erik Hexum Wikipedia.

Death
On October 12, 1984, the cast and crew of Cover Up were filming the seventh episode of the series, "Golden Opportunity", on Stage 18 of the 20th Century Fox lot. One of the scenes filmed that day called for Hexum's character to load cartridges into a .44 Magnum handgun, so he was provided with a functional gun and blank cartridges. When the scene did not play as the director wanted it to in the master shot, there was a delay in filming. Hexum became restless and impatient during the delay and began playing around to lighten the mood. He had unloaded all but one (blank) round, spun it, and—simulating Russian roulette—he put the revolver to his right temple and pulled the trigger, unaware of the danger.[9]

The explosive effect of the muzzle blast caused enough blunt force trauma to fracture a quarter-sized piece of his skull and propel this into his brain, causing massive hemorrhaging.[3][10]
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2024 12:20 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/alec-baldwin-indicted-manslaughter-charge-rust-shooting-rcna134564

Wow, indicted again. How credible are the charges, and how likely is it that he will actually go to prison?


I can’t imagine him being convicted. The armorer goes on trial next month, she’s is a maybe, but Alec did nothing criminal or reckless as I understand it. Just a tragic accident. Is it a Trump judge or something who is bringing this new indictment?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2024 12:54 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
NMLaker wrote:
even blanks can kill if close enough.


Jon-Erik Hexum Wikipedia.

Death
On October 12, 1984, the cast and crew of Cover Up were filming the seventh episode of the series, "Golden Opportunity", on Stage 18 of the 20th Century Fox lot. One of the scenes filmed that day called for Hexum's character to load cartridges into a .44 Magnum handgun, so he was provided with a functional gun and blank cartridges. When the scene did not play as the director wanted it to in the master shot, there was a delay in filming. Hexum became restless and impatient during the delay and began playing around to lighten the mood. He had unloaded all but one (blank) round, spun it, and—simulating Russian roulette—he put the revolver to his right temple and pulled the trigger, unaware of the danger.[9]

The explosive effect of the muzzle blast caused enough blunt force trauma to fracture a quarter-sized piece of his skull and propel this into his brain, causing massive hemorrhaging.[3][10]


Yep, guns ain't toys even if its filled with a blank. Him and Brandon Lee are the ones that come to mind.
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