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joeblow
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:48 am    Post subject:

CRoost wrote:
joeblow wrote:
CRoost wrote:
joeblow wrote:
CRoost wrote:
joeblow wrote:
So last night's debacle vs. the Clippers illustrates why Laker defense continues to be an Achilles heel for us.

Sure, AD coming back will help, but his main presence is down low. His surrounding pieces need to be stronger at making it tough for opponents to score. With the nine guard-sized players on the roster of 6'6" or smaller, there's no reason to continue to try to improve the back court. Ham has to find some PG/SG combo for defensive purposes when we need consistent stops.

It's the front court where the real need is. Can Rui help? Signs are mixed. I wasn't impressed with the little I watched of him in D.C., but we'll see what our vets and coaching staff can get out of him defensively.

With that said, we could use an SF/PF with more defensive upside as well as a back up defensive center. One of the best, most realistic option that's affordable for us (i.e., no OG from Toronto) may be Jarred Vanderbilt. That guy can guard the perimeter with height AND length AND tenacity AND results. His 6'8" size would also be able to help down low alongside bigger Laker defenders too.

He's not an all-star though, so Rob might not feel he's worth a FRP, but we have to do something like that or we have no shot of success in the playoffs. The defense is too weak.


Vanderbilt or Thybulle will give us defensive options that can match up with a team like Clips with so many long wings who can score. I think a couple of 2nds plus Walker salary can get it done. Cheaper will be someone like House or Reddish who are out of rotation.

Matisse T. is a fantastic defender, but too small for what we need (6'6"). I don't know who House is, but taking a chance on Reddish would be a "cheap" option to get some size (he's 6'8") and athleticism on the perimeter to help defend.

I mean, the Lakers scored a respectable 115 last night in the loss. Putting points on the board is not our major problem. Stopping the other team from doing so is the major problem (the Clips scored 133).


With Rui on board, I believe we have enough balance offensively. Our defense has been atrocious even with AD. Beverley is the only consistent defender that we have . He need someone to pair upfront for us to have a better perimeter wall. I do like Schroeder effort but he is more of a rabbit chaser. Thybulle has enough wingspan 6’11 to compensate .

Danuel House is a prototypical 3 and D and does not need time to figure out unlike Reddish.

Like Matisse, House is also 6'6". They are too short for what we need. Already the Lakers have nine players that are 6'6" are smaller. If we need to use length in the back court for some stops, Ham can go with JTA or Troy Brown who are also 6'6". Max Christie and Reaves are 6'5", and Walker is 6'4". There's no reason to keep bringing in shorter defenders for the forward spot.

Instead, let's bring in REAL forwards (and a defensive 5). Rui is a 3/4, but I don't know if he's dependable on D for what we need. We have some assets, and a few options are out there. I hope Rob chooses wisely as we approach the 2nd half of the season.


Our forwards are Lebron and Rui and they are gonna get majority of the time there. Rui has the physical tools to be at least decent defensively and Lebron will put more effort there in the playoff. We need size on the perimeter that are strong enough to hold their own on switches and Mathysse and House fits the bill. Those aforementioned guys like JTA, Brown, Christie and Reaves does not have that. Only Westbrook does but he’s so unreliable to close out the game. I prefer Vanderbilt of course but I think he’s a reach knowing how cunning Ainge is .

When I mention the need for forwards, I'm only referring to supporting players to play alongside Lebron or AD. To keep it simple, I often compare what we have now in the front court to what we had in 2020 when we won it all:

- AD and Lebron? Check.
- Kuzma? Rui, which is not close enough defensively according to some.
- M. Morris? Gabriel has great energy defensively, but is kinda thin and we could use some strength at the back up support PF slot along with height.
- McGee? T. Bryant should fill this role, but he does not have the athleticism (especially when jumping) to impact attackers coming at him in the paint.
- D12? I guess Damien Jones.

So ideally we get both a defensive forward and center to get closer to what we had as the #1 defensive team in the league. Vanderbilt / OG would be perfect for the backup PF slot, and Reddish has defensive upside for the SF role.

People say the Spurs' Poetl defends the paint pretty well, but something like that is needed also at the 5 spot. Who knows? Maybe D12 himself is in decent enough shape playing overseas to re-fill that role to bang up against Jokic.

The main reason I don't advocate going for a top notch defensive guard or two like we had in 2020 is because we already have soooooooooo many guard-sized players and so few forwards/centers that we have to prioritize.
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Last edited by joeblow on Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:59 am; edited 5 times in total
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lakersfever714
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:48 am    Post subject:

Fire Pelinka. Stop making stupid moves. It's incomprehensible that the Lakers got blown out when Lebron's got the game he just got. Don't matter the opponent. Lakers shouldn't be this bad when the leading allstar vote getter is playing like a leading allstar vote getter.
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pjiddy
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:48 am    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
Dennis100mtrash wrote:
we need another 6'8 guy and a shooter


I would give 2 firsts for a player like OG. That would make us a (bleep) to play against and maybe for once completely demolish the clipper wings.


You’re not getting OG for two 1sts (that are tears away) and salary ballast.

The best possible Laker offer is easily topable.
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Dennis100mtrash
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:49 am    Post subject:

mad55557777 wrote:

you don't think OG can guard shooting guards?


i am asking can he? i have no idea if he can
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:49 am    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
Dennis100mtrash wrote:
we need another 6'8 guy and a shooter


I would give 2 firsts for a player like OG. That would make us a (bleep) to play against and maybe for once completely demolish the clipper wings.


Of course we would. But why would Massai want to trade the arguably the best defender in the NBA, but without question the top 3&D player, for 2 picks he can't enjoy until 4.5 and 6.5 years from now? I mean, if we had the ability to include this years 1st, I'd think there would be a conversation to be had. OG is the definition of pipe dream.

I think finding a way to acquire Turner for Russ with only 1st - ideally with minimal protection - would be another way to balance the roster and get guys in their more natural position. But Rob seems to be holding onto those picks thinking a superstar is going to come available sooner or later.
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BILBJH
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:50 am    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
Dennis100mtrash wrote:
we need another 6'8 guy and a shooter


I would give 2 firsts for a player like OG. That would make us a (bleep) to play against and maybe for once completely demolish the clipper wings.


OG vs. Paul George

You sure about that?
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LakerSD
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:51 am    Post subject:

2019 wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
Dennis100mtrash wrote:
we need another 6'8 guy and a shooter


I would give 2 firsts for a player like OG. That would make us a (bleep) to play against and maybe for once completely demolish the clipper wings.


Of course we would. But why would Massai want to trade the arguably the best defender in the NBA, but without question the top 3&D player, for 2 picks he can't enjoy until 4.5 and 6.5 years from now? I mean, if we had the ability to include this years 1st, I'd think there would be a conversation to be had. OG is the definition of pipe dream.


Don’t disagree. Just saying if somehow we could pull it off, that’s the move. Unlocks everything for this team.
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LakerSD
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:53 am    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
Dennis100mtrash wrote:
we need another 6'8 guy and a shooter


I would give 2 firsts for a player like OG. That would make us a (bleep) to play against and maybe for once completely demolish the clipper wings.


OG vs. Paul George

You sure about that?


I’m not worried about that. Let’s see how that goes on a team with AD lurking.

If PG was so great, he wouldn’t have choked in playoff series against Portland and Denver who tend to get eaten alive by wings.
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mad55557777
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:57 am    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
Dennis100mtrash wrote:
we need another 6'8 guy and a shooter


I would give 2 firsts for a player like OG. That would make us a (bleep) to play against and maybe for once completely demolish the clipper wings.


OG vs. Paul George

You sure about that?

https://stathead.com/basketball/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1=anunoog01&player_id2=leonaka01
well, it's hard to tell who he was guarding each game. this one vs Kawhi is pretty good.
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Dennis100mtrash
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:58 am    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
Dennis100mtrash wrote:
we need another 6'8 guy and a shooter


I would give 2 firsts for a player like OG. That would make us a (bleep) to play against and maybe for once completely demolish the clipper wings.


OG vs. Paul George

You sure about that?


I’m not worried about that. Let’s see how that goes on a team with AD lurking.

If PG was so great, he wouldn’t have choked in playoff series against Portland and Denver who tend to get eaten alive by wings.


i think these statistically comparisons are silly
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pjiddy
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:01 am    Post subject:

Dennis100mtrash wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
Dennis100mtrash wrote:
we need another 6'8 guy and a shooter


I would give 2 firsts for a player like OG. That would make us a (bleep) to play against and maybe for once completely demolish the clipper wings.


OG vs. Paul George

You sure about that?


I’m not worried about that. Let’s see how that goes on a team with AD lurking.

If PG was so great, he wouldn’t have choked in playoff series against Portland and Denver who tend to get eaten alive by wings.


i think these statistically comparisons are silly


George i think is a good comparison for OG because they’re both guys we have no chance of getting.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:03 am    Post subject:

2019 wrote:
vasashi17+ wrote:
If we playing the cap space game this summer, maybe we should go after this playa…

Quote:
While front office salaries are typically kept even more private than those of coaches, executives such as Philadelphia’s Daryl Morey, Toronto’s Masai Ujiri, Miami’s Pat Riley, Minnesota’s Tim Connelly, San Antonio’s R.C. Buford and New York’s Leon Rose are considered by industry experts to be among the highest paid, and likely above Myers, when it comes to annual salary. The upper echelon of executives, league sources say, make upwards of $10 million. Incentives are often added to these deals. Myers reached an incentive for the Warriors winning this past title.

For all the nuance that surrounds the situation, this much is clear: team and league sources, who like all of the sources in this story were granted anonymity so they could speak freely, say Myers believes he should be among the highest-paid front office executives in the league, if not the highest. He’s been the architect of four NBA title teams, was the lead recruiter in the Durant free agency signing, and has been the trusted conduit between players, coaches and ownership. Myers also has served as chief problem solver, the coolant in an ecosystem that periodically overheats.

As the clock ticks and extension talks remain flat, many around Myers are wondering whether – and even predicting that – his days with the Warriors are about to run out. That outcome would present some critical questions: Why? What could be next? What kind of ripple effects would it have on the Warriors? Myers’ departure would assuredly be unsettling to Curry. Myers is the Warriors’ executive with whom Curry is closest.

But where might he go? According to sources close to the situation, Washington, Phoenix, and New York are all worth monitoring as possibilities. Meanwhile, the recent focus in front office circles, where Myers’ situation has become a hot topic, is on the Clippers. They have the richest owner in all of professional sports in Steve Ballmer, the 66-year-old former Microsoft CEO with an $83 billion net worth who has taken the blank-check approach to his title pursuit since buying the team in 2014. – via Marcus Thompson II, Anthony Slater, Sam Amick, The Athletic NBA Staff @ The Athletic


This is the type of commitment Jeanie needs to make. Make him President and Rob can stay VP/GM. Eventually push his ass out like he did Magic (for good reason).


Shortsighted take. Remember, Steph & Klay were there BEFORE Myers took over, and KD was possible only because of an anomaly in the cap that year.
Moreover, bringing Myers in without the capacity to spend $200 million+ in luxury taxes is not going to make similar results possible.

IMO, where the Lakers messed up was extending their deal with Staples/Crypto. They should have built their own building, which would've increased their revenue stream greatly (the Dubs use their team as a loss leader and make their profit on the building). Perhaps her family members didn't want to mortgage the team to finance it, but a Lakers Arena would have paid for itself in a mere handful of years, even with all of the other venues in SoCal.
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BILBJH
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:03 am    Post subject:

Dennis100mtrash wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
Dennis100mtrash wrote:
we need another 6'8 guy and a shooter


I would give 2 firsts for a player like OG. That would make us a (bleep) to play against and maybe for once completely demolish the clipper wings.


OG vs. Paul George

You sure about that?


I’m not worried about that. Let’s see how that goes on a team with AD lurking.

If PG was so great, he wouldn’t have choked in playoff series against Portland and Denver who tend to get eaten alive by wings.


i think these statistically comparisons are silly


They are too small to be a scientific sample but I'm just putting them up to show the absurdity about how one player can be overvalued.

OG is a good 3 and D player on a very reasonable contract... but I'm not giving up another overpay when he's done nothing without Kawhi and Lowry.

Would he be better than Rui?

Sure... but he costs our future... and he and AD won't do sh*t without LBJ.

Now maybe if you want to try to trade OG and Siakam for AD... that is a more appealing idea for me. At least they might play more games.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:04 am    Post subject:

mad55557777 wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
Dennis100mtrash wrote:
we need another 6'8 guy and a shooter


I would give 2 firsts for a player like OG. That would make us a (bleep) to play against and maybe for once completely demolish the clipper wings.


OG vs. Paul George

You sure about that?

https://stathead.com/basketball/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1=anunoog01&player_id2=leonaka01
well, it's hard to tell who he was guarding each game. this one vs Kawhi is pretty good.


Personally, I like nba.com's

https://www.nba.com/game/lac-vs-tor-0022200509/box-score?type=matchups

Filter defensive player for OG. Did well against Kawhi.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:05 am    Post subject:

We're well on our way to a Clippers/Foston Finals. Now we'd just need the Lakers to win the lottery and my worst nightmare scenario would be complete.

How do you NOT get to the NBA Finals with Lebron on the team? You let Lebron go to the Lakers.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:09 am    Post subject:

Kawhi actually left a superior team to join the Clips.

That championship Raps team is underrated.

Lowry/FVV
Green/Powell
Kawhi/OG
Pascal/Ibaka
Gasol

That is one heck of a team.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:13 am    Post subject:

vasashi17+ wrote:
@AH: he got alot of their guys (including KD) to take lesser deals to keep the championship core intact and we seen even with KD that he won’t lose assets for nothing. Not to mention, his trades have not been classified as overzealous. So yeah, he’s definitely a much better option than our current one imho.


Hey, don't set the bar too high.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:16 am    Post subject:

Spurs have 26m in cap space.

Pacers have 24m in cap space.

I can see them being active as 3rd teams to facilitate trades (and pick up draft picks), or even if we end up trading Russ (looking doubtful), both Spurs/Pacers can make a lop sided cap deal where you can do Myles straight up for Russ for example.

Watch those two teams.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:19 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Kawhi actually left a superior team to join the Clips.

That championship Raps team is underrated.

Lowry/FVV
Green/Powell
Kawhi/OG
Pascal/Ibaka
Gasol

That is one heck of a team.


Eh, I don’t know. Gasol and Ibaka was cooked after that season, Danny Green wasn’t a good shooter either after that, and FVV wasn’t gonna be a bench player anymore after that and he’s too small as a starting SG. Not to mention that if you combine all that, and Raptors getting very lucky Kevin Durant and Klay Thompson broke their ankles to win in the first place, the writing was on the wall that the Raptors were a one year wonder anyway. They weren’t going to beat the Lakers next season nor beat the Bucks the year after.

Kawhi made a good choice in leaving, he just picked the WRONG team. Heck, the wrong LA team at that.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:21 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
There are people here who think Westbrook is more important/valuable than Beverley? Really? Westbrook has been even worse this year than he was last year. He's one of the most maddening players I've ever watched, one of the lowest-IQ players I think I've ever seen. His offensive inefficiency is gross, and whatever playmaking he provides is more than offset by his ridiculous turnovers, which often lead directly to points by the other team. He's an empty calorie guy who hunts for numbers, and has for a very long time now.


Regardless, PatBev is easily the more tradable piece considering salary matching and potential asset attachment.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:25 am    Post subject:

I care little for either Westbrook or Beverley. Neither help on offense, but at least Beverley doesn’t outright make the game 4v6 unlike Westbrook most of the time.

Beverley is just more tradeable. That’s it. Heck, I would be happy with both of them traded. Officially clean out the gluttony of guards for size+talent and I’m a happy camper.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:31 am    Post subject:

Megaton wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Kawhi actually left a superior team to join the Clips.

That championship Raps team is underrated.

Lowry/FVV
Green/Powell
Kawhi/OG
Pascal/Ibaka
Gasol

That is one heck of a team.


Eh, I don’t know. Gasol and Ibaka was cooked after that season, Danny Green wasn’t a good shooter either after that, and FVV wasn’t gonna be a bench player anymore after that and he’s too small as a starting SG. Not to mention that if you combine all that, and Raptors getting very lucky Kevin Durant and Klay Thompson broke their ankles to win in the first place, the writing was on the wall that the Raptors were a one year wonder anyway. They weren’t going to beat the Lakers next season nor beat the Bucks the year after.

Kawhi made a good choice in leaving, he just picked the WRONG team. Heck, the wrong LA team at that.


They could have repeated in 2020 IMO if they kept intact. Of course Masai is active in trading so no doubt they would have made moves to replace Gasol/Ibaka's production. For example, they could have signed a player like Brook Lopez or traded for a comparable player. You're telling me this team is meh?

Lowry/FVV
Green/Powell
Kawhi/OG
Pascal
Lopez
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BILBJH
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:33 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Megaton wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Kawhi actually left a superior team to join the Clips.

That championship Raps team is underrated.

Lowry/FVV
Green/Powell
Kawhi/OG
Pascal/Ibaka
Gasol

That is one heck of a team.


Eh, I don’t know. Gasol and Ibaka was cooked after that season, Danny Green wasn’t a good shooter either after that, and FVV wasn’t gonna be a bench player anymore after that and he’s too small as a starting SG. Not to mention that if you combine all that, and Raptors getting very lucky Kevin Durant and Klay Thompson broke their ankles to win in the first place, the writing was on the wall that the Raptors were a one year wonder anyway. They weren’t going to beat the Lakers next season nor beat the Bucks the year after.

Kawhi made a good choice in leaving, he just picked the WRONG team. Heck, the wrong LA team at that.


They could have repeated in 2020 IMO if they kept intact. Of course Masai is active in trading so no doubt they would have made moves to replace Gasol/Ibaka's production. For example, they could have signed a player like Brook Lopez or traded for a comparable player. You're telling me this team is meh?

Lowry/FVV
Green/Powell
Kawhi/OG
Pascal
Lopez


That was a great team... Lowry got old and Kawhi didn't want to be there... nothing much you could do about that from Masai's point of view.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:36 am    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
2019 wrote:
vasashi17+ wrote:
If we playing the cap space game this summer, maybe we should go after this playa…

Quote:
While front office salaries are typically kept even more private than those of coaches, executives such as Philadelphia’s Daryl Morey, Toronto’s Masai Ujiri, Miami’s Pat Riley, Minnesota’s Tim Connelly, San Antonio’s R.C. Buford and New York’s Leon Rose are considered by industry experts to be among the highest paid, and likely above Myers, when it comes to annual salary. The upper echelon of executives, league sources say, make upwards of $10 million. Incentives are often added to these deals. Myers reached an incentive for the Warriors winning this past title.

For all the nuance that surrounds the situation, this much is clear: team and league sources, who like all of the sources in this story were granted anonymity so they could speak freely, say Myers believes he should be among the highest-paid front office executives in the league, if not the highest. He’s been the architect of four NBA title teams, was the lead recruiter in the Durant free agency signing, and has been the trusted conduit between players, coaches and ownership. Myers also has served as chief problem solver, the coolant in an ecosystem that periodically overheats.

As the clock ticks and extension talks remain flat, many around Myers are wondering whether – and even predicting that – his days with the Warriors are about to run out. That outcome would present some critical questions: Why? What could be next? What kind of ripple effects would it have on the Warriors? Myers’ departure would assuredly be unsettling to Curry. Myers is the Warriors’ executive with whom Curry is closest.

But where might he go? According to sources close to the situation, Washington, Phoenix, and New York are all worth monitoring as possibilities. Meanwhile, the recent focus in front office circles, where Myers’ situation has become a hot topic, is on the Clippers. They have the richest owner in all of professional sports in Steve Ballmer, the 66-year-old former Microsoft CEO with an $83 billion net worth who has taken the blank-check approach to his title pursuit since buying the team in 2014. – via Marcus Thompson II, Anthony Slater, Sam Amick, The Athletic NBA Staff @ The Athletic


This is the type of commitment Jeanie needs to make. Make him President and Rob can stay VP/GM. Eventually push his ass out like he did Magic (for good reason).


Shortsighted take. Remember, Steph & Klay were there BEFORE Myers took over, and KD was possible only because of an anomaly in the cap that year.
Moreover, bringing Myers in without the capacity to spend $200 million+ in luxury taxes is not going to make similar results possible.

IMO, where the Lakers messed up was extending their deal with Staples/Crypto. They should have built their own building, which would've increased their revenue stream greatly (the Dubs use their team as a loss leader and make their profit on the building). Perhaps her family members didn't want to mortgage the team to finance it, but a Lakers Arena would have paid for itself in a mere handful of years, even with all of the other venues in SoCal.


Turning walking KD into DLO + Pick then into Wiggins
Knowing the right type of guys to target in FA

Just two areas of the top of my head that I have yet to see from Rob. We've actually done the opposite - leet guys walk, overpay in trades, and fail to add the right type of talent every FA period thus far. Not to mention the wild swings in approach.

Regarding building a "Lakers arena" - that's the kind of thinking Jerry Buss would have done. Jeanie and the Buss 5 aren't the shrewd business people their father was - certainly not real estate people. Besides, where would they have built? Back to Inglewood next to Ballmer? Inferior location in downtown?
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Megaton
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:38 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Megaton wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Kawhi actually left a superior team to join the Clips.

That championship Raps team is underrated.

Lowry/FVV
Green/Powell
Kawhi/OG
Pascal/Ibaka
Gasol

That is one heck of a team.


Eh, I don’t know. Gasol and Ibaka was cooked after that season, Danny Green wasn’t a good shooter either after that, and FVV wasn’t gonna be a bench player anymore after that and he’s too small as a starting SG. Not to mention that if you combine all that, and Raptors getting very lucky Kevin Durant and Klay Thompson broke their ankles to win in the first place, the writing was on the wall that the Raptors were a one year wonder anyway. They weren’t going to beat the Lakers next season nor beat the Bucks the year after.

Kawhi made a good choice in leaving, he just picked the WRONG team. Heck, the wrong LA team at that.


They could have repeated in 2020 IMO if they kept intact. Of course Masai is active in trading so no doubt they would have made moves to replace Gasol/Ibaka's production. For example, they could have signed a player like Brook Lopez or traded for a comparable player. You're telling me this team is meh?

Lowry/FVV
Green/Powell
Kawhi/OG
Pascal
Lopez


Bucks already signed Lopez to a much bigger contract than the Raptors were even close to capable of, so that’s irrelevant. If Kawhi came back, they would have zero salary to replace anybody at Center. And it’s not like LA where you have players taking discounts. Especially in players like Toronto of all places.

Just because Masai would be active, doesn’t mean he would have been successful given the very limited resources he would have in making any improvements.
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