Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67708 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:21 pm Post subject:
DaMuleRules wrote:
jodeke wrote:
The invasion of air space is a serious violation. If the ballon has guidance capabilities Biden should demand China maneuver the ballon out of US airspace. IMO if they don't comply the ballon should be shot down.
The military advised Biden the potential risk to civilian lives was not worth the taking down a balloon that was not likely providing any further intelligence gathering that China already has.
Makes sense. I'm on the outside looking in. Biden has educated advisors. I wonder what China would do if we had a similar ballon floating in their air space. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
(Blinken: Chinese surveillance balloon over U.S. a 'clear violation')
[1 hour ago]
Quote:
Secretary of State Antony Blinken addressed the suspected Chinese surveillance balloon that was spotted over the U.S. and called it an "irresponsible act" that caused him to cancel a planned trip to Beijing.
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52657 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 3:23 pm Post subject:
Wilt wrote:
While the nation is distracted by a Chinese balloon, the economy added half a million jobs in January.
But . . . But . . . No one wants to work anymore! That can’t be possible! _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67708 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 5:51 pm Post subject:
Much of what Biden is doing has gone unnoticed because of distractions like the Chinese ballon. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29337 Location: La La Land
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:48 am Post subject:
The racist bull crap that was pulled to get Ilhan Omar off the Foreign Affairs Committee. Republicans make me sick.
Happy AOC spoke out about it. The turnout Omar got in 2020 really helped Biden secure a key state he needed. Same goes for Rashida Tlaib. I'm sure the progressive caucus and the DNC as a whole are letting these women of color know how valuable they are. But it's nice to see AOC, publicly shaming Republicans for this bull crap as well. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67708 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2023 1:54 pm Post subject:
I wouldn't say I like how Biden is handling the Chinese ballon. IMO it makes us look weak. Listening to the media it seems this isn't the first time a balloon of this type has flown over American soil. I'm going to trust the administration knows what it's doing. However, I still don't like it. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Joined: 15 Nov 2006 Posts: 19865 Location: Prarie & Manchester, high above the western sideline
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:26 pm Post subject:
jodeke wrote:
I wouldn't say I like how Biden is handling the Chinese ballon. IMO it makes us look weak. Listening to the media it seems this isn't the first time a balloon of this type has flown over American soil. I'm going to trust the administration knows what it's doing. However, I still don't like it.
the only balloon you know how to handle is the one in your foley catheter _________________ http://chickhearn.ytmnd.com/
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52657 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:43 pm Post subject:
jodeke wrote:
I wouldn't say I like how Biden is handling the Chinese ballon. IMO it makes us look weak. Listening to the media it seems this isn't the first time a balloon of this type has flown over American soil. I'm going to trust the administration knows what it's doing. However, I still don't like it.
The bolded is the kind of mindset that leads to bad decision making. You don’t make these decisions based on how you think you will look. You make them based on what is strategically sound. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
They should’ve had a bead on it from the Aleutian islands / Bering Seas and IMHO should’ve brought it down before it hit the continental United States as there was plenty of open space or open water.
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52657 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2023 5:02 pm Post subject:
JerryWest_44 wrote:
trmiv wrote:
How would you prefer he handled it?
They should’ve had a bead on it from the Aleutian islands and IMHO should’ve brought it down before it hit the continental United States as there was plenty of open space or open water.
Yeah, because shooting down a ballon that represents little strategic threat prematurely is exactly the way to escalate a nothing incident into an international standoff. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
They should’ve had a bead on it from the Aleutian islands and IMHO should’ve brought it down before it hit the continental United States as there was plenty of open space or open water.
Yeah, because shooting down a ballon that represents little strategic threat prematurely is exactly the way to escalate a nothing incident into an international standoff.
The reports are the US blocked the balloon from gathering any intelligence data early on, then we started collecting data from the balloon, the Biden gave the order to shoot it down and military said they would as soon as it was in airspace not over the civilian population, then as soon it was over the ocean and not a city or land, they took it down.
So they did exactly what they should have done to protect us all but they didn't telegraph their moves to the world (or tip off the Chinese government).
The reports are the US blocked the balloon from gathering any intelligence data early on, then we started collecting data from the balloon, the Biden gave the order to shoot it down and military said they would as soon as it was in airspace not over the civilian population, then as soon it was over the ocean and not a city or land, they took it down.
So they did exactly what they should have done to protect us all but they didn't telegraph their moves to the world (or tip off the Chinese government).
And we are complaining about what exactly?
If the USA jammed(I’d like to know when) the balloon how did the Chinese control the path of the balloon? Pre-programmed path?
Notable: US officials say they were able to block the balloon from gathering intel during its overflight of the US, while the US military was able to turn the tables, so to speak, to gather intel on the balloon itself and its equipment.
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52657 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2023 5:20 pm Post subject:
JerryWest_44 wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
JerryWest_44 wrote:
trmiv wrote:
How would you prefer he handled it?
They should’ve had a bead on it from the Aleutian islands and IMHO should’ve brought it down before it hit the continental United States as there was plenty of open space or open water.
Yeah, because shooting down a ballon that represents little strategic threat prematurely is exactly the way to escalate a nothing incident into an international standoff.
Nevertheless they shot it down.
They did. In the fashion that military advised it be shot down; after it had passed and would present no safety concerns for the populace. This was a balloon that was sure to be detected and posed no military nor intelligence threat. The way it was handled was how it should be. There’s no way that China thought that such a craft would go undetected. So it was either what they say, an innocuous weather gathering vehicle or something to test what the US response would be. The US response was measured and not reactionary. And then when shooting down the balloon over the open ocean was a safe option, we did so. Shoot first and ask questions later is a sure fire to escalate things, which is probably one aspect that China was gauging if this was sn intentional act. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
A U.S. fighter jet, acting on an order from President Biden, downed a Chinese surveillance balloon off the South Carolina coast on Saturday, the Pentagon said, ending what senior administration officials contend was an audacious attempt by Beijing to collect intelligence on sensitive American military sites.
Biden had authorized the takedown on Wednesday, instructing the Pentagon to act “as soon as the mission could be accomplished without undue risk to American lives under the balloon’s path,” Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin said in a statement confirming the operation. The president, in brief remarks to reporters, said: “They successfully took it down. And I want to compliment our aviators who did it.”
Quote:
Soon after, an array of Coast Guard and Navy vessels descended on the debris field to recover as much as possible from the balloon, they said.
The balloon went down off the coast of South Carolina in relatively shallow waters, about 47 feet deep, which should make recovery easier, a senior military official said. A Navy salvage vessel will arrive within a couple of days, with FBI counterintelligence officials aboard, the official said, adding that it will likely include divers and unmanned underwater vessels.
Quote:
A senior defense official portrayed the delay in downing in the craft as an intelligence coup for the United States. “This actually provided us with a number of days to analyze this balloon, and through a number of means … to learn a lot about what this balloon was doing, how it was doing it, why the PRC may be using balloons like this,” the official said, declining to offer specifics. PRC stands for the People’s Republic of China.
They should’ve had a bead on it from the Aleutian islands and IMHO should’ve brought it down before it hit the continental United States as there was plenty of open space or open water.
Yeah, because shooting down a ballon that represents little strategic threat prematurely is exactly the way to escalate a nothing incident into an international standoff.
Nevertheless they shot it down.
They did. In the fashion that military advised it be shot down; after it had passed and would present no safety concerns for the populace. This was a balloon that was sure to be detected and posed no military nor intelligence threat. The way it was handled was how it should be. There’s no way that China thought that such a craft would go undetected. So it was either what they say, an innocuous weather gathering vehicle or something to test what the US response would be. The US response was measured and not reactionary. And then when shooting down the balloon over the open ocean was a safe option, we did so. Shoot first and ask questions later is a sure fire to escalate things, which is probably one aspect that China was gauging if this was sn intentional act.
The US could’ve had the same measured response and collected all the intel they wanted before it hit the continental US.
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52657 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:04 pm Post subject:
JerryWest_44 wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
JerryWest_44 wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
JerryWest_44 wrote:
trmiv wrote:
How would you prefer he handled it?
They should’ve had a bead on it from the Aleutian islands and IMHO should’ve brought it down before it hit the continental United States as there was plenty of open space or open water.
Yeah, because shooting down a ballon that represents little strategic threat prematurely is exactly the way to escalate a nothing incident into an international standoff.
Nevertheless they shot it down.
They did. In the fashion that military advised it be shot down; after it had passed and would present no safety concerns for the populace. This was a balloon that was sure to be detected and posed no military nor intelligence threat. The way it was handled was how it should be. There’s no way that China thought that such a craft would go undetected. So it was either what they say, an innocuous weather gathering vehicle or something to test what the US response would be. The US response was measured and not reactionary. And then when shooting down the balloon over the open ocean was a safe option, we did so. Shoot first and ask questions later is a sure fire to escalate things, which is probably one aspect that China was gauging if this was sn intentional act.
The US could’ve had the same measured response and collected all the intel they wanted before it hit the continental US.
Not without appearing to have had a knee-jerk response to an innocuous breach.
The difference in response between "We're concerned! It might be bad! Shoot it down" versus, "Let's see what we're dealing with. It's not a meaningful threat. Let's make sure we don't hurt our own people by taking it down needlessly" is immense in the strategic back and forth. And then we took it out to say, "Yeah, we're not going to ignore this".
There was nothing to be gained by reacting quickly, and there were things to be gained by taking a measured response. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
They should’ve had a bead on it from the Aleutian islands and IMHO should’ve brought it down before it hit the continental United States as there was plenty of open space or open water.
Yeah, because shooting down a ballon that represents little strategic threat prematurely is exactly the way to escalate a nothing incident into an international standoff.
Nevertheless they shot it down.
They did. In the fashion that military advised it be shot down; after it had passed and would present no safety concerns for the populace. This was a balloon that was sure to be detected and posed no military nor intelligence threat. The way it was handled was how it should be. There’s no way that China thought that such a craft would go undetected. So it was either what they say, an innocuous weather gathering vehicle or something to test what the US response would be. The US response was measured and not reactionary. And then when shooting down the balloon over the open ocean was a safe option, we did so. Shoot first and ask questions later is a sure fire to escalate things, which is probably one aspect that China was gauging if this was sn intentional act.
The US could’ve had the same measured response and collected all the intel they wanted before it hit the continental US.
Not without appearing to have had a knee-jerk response to an innocuous breach.
The difference in response between "We're concerned! It might be bad! Shoot it down" versus, "Let's see what we're dealing with. It's not a meaningful threat. Let's make sure we don't hurt our own people by taking it down needlessly" is immense in the strategic back and forth. And then we took it out to say, "Yeah, we're not going to ignore this".
There was nothing to be gained by reacting quickly, and there were things to be gained by taking a measured response.
I agree with not reacting quickly but the Chinese balloon entered the US on January 28…. plenty of time to make a measured response before prior to hitting the continental USA
They should’ve had a bead on it from the Aleutian islands and IMHO should’ve brought it down before it hit the continental United States as there was plenty of open space or open water.
Yeah, because shooting down a ballon that represents little strategic threat prematurely is exactly the way to escalate a nothing incident into an international standoff.
Nevertheless they shot it down.
They did. In the fashion that military advised it be shot down; after it had passed and would present no safety concerns for the populace. This was a balloon that was sure to be detected and posed no military nor intelligence threat. The way it was handled was how it should be. There’s no way that China thought that such a craft would go undetected. So it was either what they say, an innocuous weather gathering vehicle or something to test what the US response would be. The US response was measured and not reactionary. And then when shooting down the balloon over the open ocean was a safe option, we did so. Shoot first and ask questions later is a sure fire to escalate things, which is probably one aspect that China was gauging if this was sn intentional act.
The US could’ve had the same measured response and collected all the intel they wanted before it hit the continental US.
Not without appearing to have had a knee-jerk response to an innocuous breach.
The difference in response between "We're concerned! It might be bad! Shoot it down" versus, "Let's see what we're dealing with. It's not a meaningful threat. Let's make sure we don't hurt our own people by taking it down needlessly" is immense in the strategic back and forth. And then we took it out to say, "Yeah, we're not going to ignore this".
There was nothing to be gained by reacting quickly, and there were things to be gained by taking a measured response.
I agree with not reacting quickly but the Chinese balloon entered the US on January 28…. plenty of time to make a measured response before prior to hitting the continental USA
A U.S. fighter jet, acting on an order from President Biden, downed a Chinese surveillance balloon off the South Carolina coast on Saturday, the Pentagon said, ending what senior administration officials contend was an audacious attempt by Beijing to collect intelligence on sensitive American military sites.
Biden had authorized the takedown on Wednesday, instructing the Pentagon to act “as soon as the mission could be accomplished without undue risk to American lives under the balloon’s path,” Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin said in a statement confirming the operation. The president, in brief remarks to reporters, said: “They successfully took it down. And I want to compliment our aviators who did it.”
Quote:
Soon after, an array of Coast Guard and Navy vessels descended on the debris field to recover as much as possible from the balloon, they said.
The balloon went down off the coast of South Carolina in relatively shallow waters, about 47 feet deep, which should make recovery easier, a senior military official said. A Navy salvage vessel will arrive within a couple of days, with FBI counterintelligence officials aboard, the official said, adding that it will likely include divers and unmanned underwater vessels.
Quote:
A senior defense official portrayed the delay in downing in the craft as an intelligence coup for the United States. “This actually provided us with a number of days to analyze this balloon, and through a number of means … to learn a lot about what this balloon was doing, how it was doing it, why the PRC may be using balloons like this,” the official said, declining to offer specifics. PRC stands for the People’s Republic of China.
"ending what senior administration officials contend was an audacious attempt by Beijing to collect intelligence on sensitive American military sites"
I get why they are saying that, but there was nothing "audacious" about it, nor was it a meaningful attempt to gather intelligence. China knew such a craft would be easily and immediately detected. This incident was an attempt to see how the US would respond. And the US response was just what it should be. I doubt we'll really gather much from the debris, because even if it was a genuine attempt to gather surveillance, China would never put any truly sophisticated technology on a craft they knew would likely be taken down eventually; nor would they need to do so given that other means they already have in place (satellites) could do the job much more effectively and inconspicuously.
This whole thing is really a nothing burger beyond being an interesting upping the ante in the back and forth between the US and China in much the same way that the US and Russia have been for decades. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
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