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Dr. Laker
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 Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:10 am Post subject: Count the 1947 Championship! We have 18 rings! (updated) |
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On another board, I've been ranting and raving for about 10 years about how we're being cheated out of a championship in the NBA.
Back in 1948, when the Lakers moved from Detroit to Minneapolis, the Lakers won the NBL Championship. The NBL then merged with the BAA to form the NBA, where the Lakers continued to dominate, but were not allowed to claim the 1948 title.
The Lakers are officially an "expansion" team and not one of the original NBA teams, but we should count the '48 team as a champion and hang their banner.
All of the teams that came over from the ABA - Pacers, Nets, Nuggets, Spurs - are allowed to count their ABA Titles in their teamhistory, even though they weren't NBA Championships.
Ours should count, too.
Eff you, Celtics - we have 17 and will PASS you in 2010-11.
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On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns".
Last edited by Dr. Laker on Fri May 28, 2021 3:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jeffs
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | All of the teams that came over from the ABA - Pacers, Nets, Nuggets, Spurs - are allowed to count their ABA Titles in their teamhistory, even though they weren't NBA Championships. |
No they don't. At least not on the lists we see ESPN/TNT show on the screen.
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Jeffs
I feel like I just watched someone TRULY give 100%. Not the BS I'm-gonna-give-a-110%-just-like-everyone-else-says platitudes, but someone that went until he just....broke. - GT |
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grimmz4764
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:15 am Post subject: |
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| Were they still the Gems or were they the Lakers? |
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Dr. Laker
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| grimmz4764 wrote: | | Were they still the Gems or were they the Lakers? |
Lakers. They played 47-48 in Minneapolis.
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Dr. Laker
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Joined: 12 Apr 2002
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| Jeffs wrote: | | Quote: | | All of the teams that came over from the ABA - Pacers, Nets, Nuggets, Spurs - are allowed to count their ABA Titles in their teamhistory, even though they weren't NBA Championships. |
No they don't. At least not on the lists we see ESPN/TNT show on the screen. |
They don't count as NBA Titles but as Team titles. E.G., in the Pacers official history, they are 3 time champions, even though none were NBA Championships.
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On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
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32
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| We don't need to claim that one. In 1986 Boston was leading us 16-9, Now it's 17-16. We will catch and pass them. It's just a matter of time... |
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ArminNBA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:31 am Post subject: Re: Count the 1947 Championship! We have 17 rings! |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | On another board, I've been ranting and raving for about 10 years about how we're being cheated out of a championship in the NBA.
Back in 1948, when the Lakers moved from Detroit to Minneapolis, the Lakers won the NBL Championship. The NBL then merged with the BAA to form the NBA, where the Lakers continued to dominate, but were not allowed to claim the 1948 title.
The Lakers are officially an "expansion" team and not one of the original NBA teams, but we should count the '48 team as a champion and hang their banner.
All of the teams that came over from the ABA - Pacers, Nets, Nuggets, Spurs - are allowed to count their ABA Titles in their teamhistory, even though they weren't NBA Championships.
Ours should count, too.
Eff you, Celtics - we have 17 and will PASS you in 2010-11. |
I never got why the BAA championship counted as an NBA championship while the NBL championship did not count as an NBA championship. Why one and not the other? |
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LA_Lakers_Rule
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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This point that Dr. Laker has brought up is why you will often see references to Mikan winning 5 titles and other references to him winning 6 and sometimes even 7 titles depending upon how they are counted... if we use the 6 titles then Mikan has more Laker titles than any other Laker player including Magic...
.... We probably see more narratives that speak of Mikan winning only 5 titles presumably because of this issue being discussed now but we will still see occasional references to 6 or 7 titles for Mikan...
Correct me if I'm wrong but as I understand it Mikan one FIVE NBA titles with the Minneapolis Lakers of the NBA from 48-49 thru 53-54, ONE title with the Minneapolis Lakers of the BAA in 47-48 and ONE title with the Chicago American Gears in the NBL in 46-47.
... I think there is a reason why there might be more debate about Mikan's titles than the Laker franchise's number of titles in that it would seem arguably more fair to give Mikan with 6 or 7 titles than perhaps giving the Laker organization 17 titles since there was after all only one NBA champion those two years and it was not the Lakers that won it but on the other hand Mikan did win other PRO Basketball titles regardless of the fact it was in the NBA or not... From the perspective of a player Mikan did actually win a total of 7 titles... from the perspective of the Laker organization they did win 17 titles as well but since they are now a member of the NBA and have only won 16 NBA titles I see the distinction more on the organization than the player to an extent... I guess it depends on personal perspective...
I just think it is a more difficult sell to say the Lakers have 17 titles as opposed to contending that Mikan has 6 or 7 titles...
... from the perspective of the Laker franchise however, I think it is legitimate to say that Mikan DID win 6 titles with the Lakers (including the 1 BAA title) because of the fact that the BAA and the NBL merged to form the NBA as I understand it...
... In my view there will always be an asterisk involved for most titles won by a Laker player until a Laker player actually wins SEVEN titles.... The opportunity still exists for Kobe at the age of 31 and with 5 titles to do just that... here's to Kobe to get it done!!!.... 
Interesting tidbits on Mikan: LINK
| Quote: | > In a college game against Rhode Island State U., playing for DePaul U., outscored the entire RI team, with 53 points
> Knocked so many shots away from the basket, the NCAA instituted a rule prohibiting goaltending
> In 1949, when his team, the Minnesota Lakers, was in NY to play against the Knicks, Madison Square Garden's marquee read "Geo. Mikan vs. Knicks"
> Indirectly responsible for creation of 24-second clock; Fort Wayne Pistons held the ball during the game rather than let Mikan get it. They won, 19-18, in the lowest-scoring game in NBA history
> As ABA commissioner in 1967, introduced the 3-point line and the distinctive red, white and blue ball |
Quote from Mikan in that link: "I guess I've done just about everything in life people told me I wasn't able to do." – George Mikan
I had also read somewhere that Mikan brought about what they called the "Mikan Rule" at the time which was when the NBA widened the key from six to 12 feet because of his dominance in the middle.
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| BobbyJ wrote: | | We don't need to claim that one. In 1986 Boston was leading us 16-9, Now it's 17-16. We will catch and pass them. It's just a matter of time... |
Did the franchise count the titles from MN in the 80's? I ask because I'm watching these prior Finals DVDs and I am seeing "the drive for 5", and not noticing many references to recognizing those titles. |
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32
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: | | BobbyJ wrote: | | We don't need to claim that one. In 1986 Boston was leading us 16-9, Now it's 17-16. We will catch and pass them. It's just a matter of time... |
Did the franchise count the titles from MN in the 80's? I ask because I'm watching these prior Finals DVDs and I am seeing "the drive for 5", and not noticing many references to recognizing those titles. |
Yes. As far as I know the Laker franchise has always claimed the 5 NBA titles that were won from the Minneapolis Lakers. "The drive for 5" reference could have been for Magic, Kareem and Coop going for 5 titles as Laker players back in the 80's. This year I heard Fish saying "drive for 5" alot too. |
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The Dagger
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | grimmz4764 wrote: | | Were they still the Gems or were they the Lakers? |
Lakers. They played 47-48 in Minneapolis. |
If Boston counts all their championships* back when there were like 4 teams and they had about 15 hall of famers then I think we should count that one too.
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The great Laker Center Tradition continues.....Mikan, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Gasol, AD....Gasol. |
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waterkewld
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| the off season is soooo boring!..no they shouldnt hang it, we will pass boston within the next 5 years, bookmark it |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| I'd rather win more NBA titles than assimilate retroactive titles from defunct basketball leagues in pathetically transparent attempt to match the C's. |
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RealOne
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Brian Shaw, a former Celtic may end up leading the Lakers back to the promised land. Bill Sharman 2.0 |
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The-GM
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Heres a better question. Once we reach 17 titles next season, are we officially the greatest NBA franchise of all time? |
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ssiknick833
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | I'd rather win more NBA titles than assimilate retroactive titles from defunct basketball leagues in pathetically transparent attempt to match the C's. |
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R.I.P. wheelchair |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: Count the 1947 Championship! We have 17 rings! |
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| ArminNBA wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | On another board, I've been ranting and raving for about 10 years about how we're being cheated out of a championship in the NBA.
Back in 1948, when the Lakers moved from Detroit to Minneapolis, the Lakers won the NBL Championship. The NBL then merged with the BAA to form the NBA, where the Lakers continued to dominate, but were not allowed to claim the 1948 title.
The Lakers are officially an "expansion" team and not one of the original NBA teams, but we should count the '48 team as a champion and hang their banner.
All of the teams that came over from the ABA - Pacers, Nets, Nuggets, Spurs - are allowed to count their ABA Titles in their teamhistory, even though they weren't NBA Championships.
Ours should count, too.
Eff you, Celtics - we have 17 and will PASS you in 2010-11. |
I never got why the BAA championship counted as an NBA championship while the NBL championship did not count as an NBA championship. Why one and not the other? |
It works this way: The BAA was formed in 1946 and turned into the NBA in 1948.
The NBL was a rival league to the BAA. In 1948, 3 NBL teams (including the Lakers) joined the BAA. The next year, the BAA merged with the NBL.
The BAA was the weaker league and none of the records team had in the BAA carried over. It was the same with the ABA. The records and accomplishments of the Pacers, Net, etc. in the ABA are not counted as NBA records or accomplishments.
Basically, all the teams started from scratch when they joined the BAA/NBA. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: Count the 1947 Championship! We have 17 rings! |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | On another board, I've been ranting and raving for about 10 years about how we're being cheated out of a championship in the NBA.
Back in 1948, when the Lakers moved from Detroit to Minneapolis, the Lakers won the NBL Championship. The NBL then merged with the BAA to form the NBA, where the Lakers continued to dominate, but were not allowed to claim the 1948 title.
The Lakers are officially an "expansion" team and not one of the original NBA teams, but we should count the '48 team as a champion and hang their banner.
All of the teams that came over from the ABA - Pacers, Nets, Nuggets, Spurs - are allowed to count their ABA Titles in their teamhistory, even though they weren't NBA Championships.
Ours should count, too.
Eff you, Celtics - we have 17 and will PASS you in 2010-11. |
If I were a Celtics fan, my response would be -- well, if you're going to say the official records don't count, then I say the ring total should only be for what teams did since the NBA started. And so the Lakers 1949 BAA championship doesn't count and you have only 15 NBA championships.
Last edited by activeverb on Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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TarLaPaN
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| The-GM wrote: | | Heres a better question. Once we reach 17 titles next season, are we officially the greatest NBA franchise of all time? |
without a doubt. we hold the tiebreaker by being more consistent, more finals appearances, and more superstars. But it wont matter because we will get #18 before them. |
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srm90
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| The-GM wrote: | | Heres a better question. Once we reach 17 titles next season, are we officially the greatest NBA franchise of all time? |
The Celtics fans are holding onto the "We have more championships" title for dear life. It's going to be fun to see them squirm once we win #17 and #18. I expect them to take that "The 5 titles in Minneapolis don't count" claim more seriously, and that will be what they cling to. Then it's going to be even more fun when we win #23 and they lose that as well 
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peterhbca
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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Most of the Celtic's championships occurred in one decade, coupled with the fact that the league was not fully racially integrated, demonstrates that the Celtics haven't been as dominate in a cumulative sense. The Lakers have been dominated for several decades.
Even though they have more championships, it is all too apparent that we have a more successful franchise, where everyone would agree. |
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Raijin
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| The-GM wrote: | | Heres a better question. Once we reach 17 titles next season, are we officially the greatest NBA franchise of all time? |
No. We have to pass them. Look at the head to head record.
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"It was tough," Kobe Bryant said. "But when it got really tough for me, I just checked myself in." |
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Lakers#1Team
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:35 pm Post subject: Re: Count the 1947 Championship! We have 17 rings! |
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| activeverb wrote: | | ArminNBA wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | On another board, I've been ranting and raving for about 10 years about how we're being cheated out of a championship in the NBA.
Back in 1948, when the Lakers moved from Detroit to Minneapolis, the Lakers won the NBL Championship. The NBL then merged with the BAA to form the NBA, where the Lakers continued to dominate, but were not allowed to claim the 1948 title.
The Lakers are officially an "expansion" team and not one of the original NBA teams, but we should count the '48 team as a champion and hang their banner.
All of the teams that came over from the ABA - Pacers, Nets, Nuggets, Spurs - are allowed to count their ABA Titles in their teamhistory, even though they weren't NBA Championships.
Ours should count, too.
Eff you, Celtics - we have 17 and will PASS you in 2010-11. |
I never got why the BAA championship counted as an NBA championship while the NBL championship did not count as an NBA championship. Why one and not the other? |
It works this way: The BAA was formed in 1946 and turned into the NBA in 1948.
The NBL was a rival league to the BAA. In 1948, 3 NBL teams (including the Lakers) joined the BAA. The next year, the BAA merged with the NBL.
The BAA was the weaker league and none of the records team had in the BAA carried over. It was the same with the ABA. The records and accomplishments of the Pacers, Net, etc. in the ABA are not counted as NBA records or accomplishments.
Basically, all the teams started from scratch when they joined the BAA/NBA. |
You are right that the BAA was the inferior league (although I think you were trying to make the inaccurate argument that the NBL was the inferior league). The Lakers were in the stronger NBL when they won their first championship. The Celtics were in the upstart and inferior BAA. It's the BAA that has their titles counted. But it was the Lakers and the NBL teams that MADE the BAA something to watch. Dr. Laker has it right. All the historical accounts would indicate that the Lakers would have crushed all BAA competition when they won their first NBL title. That title should count as far as the Lakers are concerned (whether it counts in the NBA or not). Based on strength of league, it should have been the powerhouse NBL titles that counted instead of their big-market but inferior BAA rivals.
When the Lakers and three other NBL teams jumped ship to the inferior BAA (because of the exposure and popularity of Mikan and the Lakers on the Least Coast) the tide turned for the BAA:
| Quote: | Before the 1948-49 season began the Minneapolis Lakers, Rochester Royals, Fort Wayne Zollner Pistons and Indianapolis Kautskys (later renamed the Jets) jumped to the Basketball Association of America. The BAA was already an eight-team league that included franchises in such major markets as New York, Boston, Philadelphia and Chicago. The addition of the four NBL teams now gave the league the big-name players it needed.
The biggest name of all was Mikan, and fans flocked to see him in every BAA city. When the Lakers arrived in New York to face the Knickerbockers, the marquee at Madison Square Garden read “George Mikan vs. Knicks.”
http://www.nba.com/lakers/history/lakers_history_new.html
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| Quote: |
The growth of the NBL continued in 1948-1949 with the addition of four new teams; the Waterloo Hawks, the Detroit Vegabond Kings, the Hammond Calumet Buccaneers, and the Denver Nuggets. However the national exposure of Mikan and the Lakers caused the Lakers to jump ship to the BAA, as did the Kautskys the Piston, and the Royals. The NBL was in dire straight after this, and the pockets of the owners would feel it. This was an ironic twist of faith, because the previous season had been the leagues most successful.
...
The 48-49 season saw great growth for the BAA. Four of the NBL super teams, the Minneapolis lakers, the Rochester Royals, the Fort Wayne Zollner Pistons and the Indianapolis Kautsky’s, all jumped to the BAA. The Kautsky’s became known as the Jets and then Zollner Pistons as just the Pistons. In addition to gaining four new teams for the NBL, the BAA also got superstars Paul Risen and George Mikan.
...
The Western division and its powerhouse teams made for good basketball in the BAA, five of the six teams would be huge draws anywhere they went. The Royals and Lakers battled most the season for the top spot, but the Risen lead Royal one upped the lakers winning the division by one game at 45 and 15. The Lakers at 44 and 16 were followed by the Stags at 38-22, the Bombers at 29-31, the Pistons at 22-38, and the Jets at 18-42.
http://www.nbahoopsonline.com/Articles/History2.html
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| peterhbca wrote: | Most of the Celtic's championships occurred in one decade, coupled with the fact that the league was not fully racially integrated, demonstrates that the Celtics haven't been as dominate in a cumulative sense. The Lakers have been dominated for several decades.
Even though they have more championships, it is all too apparent that we have a more successful franchise, where everyone would agree. |
Boston's first title came 3 years after Minneapolis won their five titles, which came in an (obviously) much-less racially integrated era. In fact the Lakers' first title (1949) came the year before the first african-americans joined the league.
Not sure we want to play the race/competition card here. |
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JUST-MING
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| Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:09 am Post subject: |
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CBS, correctly, credits that championship (1948) under Lakers Franchise History:League Championships 17:
1948 (NBL), 1949 (BAA), 1950 (NBA), 1952 (NBA), 1953 (NBA), 1954 (NBA), 1972 (NBA), 1980 (NBA), 1982 (NBA), 1985 (NBA), 1987 (NBA), 1988 (NBA), 2000 (NBA), 2001 (NBA), 2002 (NBA), 2009 (NBA), 2010 (NBA) Source: http://www.cbssports.com/nba/teams/history/LAL/los-angeles-lakers
Last edited by JUST-MING on Sat May 20, 2017 9:48 am; edited 21 times in total |
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