Biggest douche bag in league history
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Who is the biggest douche bag in NBA history?
Michael Jordan
6%
 6%  [ 6 ]
Jayson Williams
1%
 1%  [ 1 ]
Red Auerbach
20%
 20%  [ 20 ]
LeBron James
35%
 35%  [ 35 ]
Shaquille O'Neal
6%
 6%  [ 6 ]
Karl Malone
7%
 7%  [ 7 ]
Charles Barkley
3%
 3%  [ 3 ]
Isaiah Thomas
6%
 6%  [ 6 ]
Dennis Rodman
3%
 3%  [ 3 ]
other
12%
 12%  [ 12 ]
Total Votes : 99

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Wilkes52
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:51 pm    Post subject:

24 wrote:
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Kermit Washington. Trash. Punk. Worthless.


Please. Kermit was and is a good guy. He didn't do anything that a lot of guys haven't done. He was just unlucky in that he landed a direct punch and that Rudy's skull is apparently made of paper machier. It certainly wasn't worse than some of the altercations Artest has had.


Please indeed. Put the pipe down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k1i4Ddngg8

Rudy's injuries are because his skull was paper mache' ? Riiight. That punch landed square with much weight and both guys momentum behind it. Unfreaking provoked, Kermit saw Rudy coming and punched his lights out. Kerm would be in jail for years if that had happened off the court.

I was there. It was the most violent, intentional basketball freak show and assault I've ever witnessed. Kermit was booted from our club quicker than you can say punk-be-gone. Yes, he sued for damages, got 'em too, because his contract money was due him. He was blackballed for almost long enough. I hope he rots and for a long time, my friend.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:21 pm    Post subject:

24 wrote:
Wilkes52 wrote:
Kermit Washington. Trash. Punk. Worthless.


Please. Kermit was and is a good guy. He didn't do anything that a lot of guys haven't done. He was just unlucky in that he landed a direct punch and that Rudy's skull is apparently made of paper machier. It certainly wasn't worse than some of the altercations Artest has had.


You are out of your mind. You almost kill someone on the court, unprovoked, you're making this list. And your Artest comment doesnt work either. Anyone who isn't a Lakers fan would include Artest (and Kobe for that matter) on this list. Kermit *may* be a nice guy but he did what he did.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:35 pm    Post subject:

Karl (bleep) Malone... Hands down...
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:14 pm    Post subject:

Wilkes52 wrote:
24 wrote:
Wilkes52 wrote:
Kermit Washington. Trash. Punk. Worthless.


Please. Kermit was and is a good guy. He didn't do anything that a lot of guys haven't done. He was just unlucky in that he landed a direct punch and that Rudy's skull is apparently made of paper machier. It certainly wasn't worse than some of the altercations Artest has had.


Please indeed. Put the pipe down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k1i4Ddngg8

Rudy's injuries are because his skull was paper mache' ? Riiight. That punch landed square with much weight and both guys momentum behind it. Unfreaking provoked, Kermit saw Rudy coming and punched his lights out. Kerm would be in jail for years if that had happened off the court.

I was there. It was the most violent, intentional basketball freak show and assault I've ever witnessed. Kermit was booted from our club quicker than you can say punk-be-gone. Yes, he sued for damages, got 'em too, because his contract money was due him. He was blackballed for almost long enough. I hope he rots and for a long time, my friend.


A few things here:

First, I don't condone the punch, nor the suspension, or even some of the other repercussions, merely that he became a pariah for essentially doing something that was commonplace at the time.

Second, you're being in the building, barring some revelation we can't pick up off the birdseye view afforded us by the camera, has no particular trump card value in the discussion.

Third, you leave out a tremendous amount about the event, the events surrounding it, and the time in which it occurs. I wonder if you consider Kareem a punk, the same Kareem who had at that time recently recovered from a broken hand suffered while punching another player in the head. Something for which he received no discipline whatsoever, par for the course in a time when fights were commonplace. I wonder if Rudy T is a punk, he of a certain quantity of "red ass", meaning in this case a healthy measure of combativeness. While by all accounts a fine gentleman, he wasn't averse to the rough and tumble of the era. I wonder if you forget that Rudy was running to the aid of a teammate who had thrown an elbow and either a second elbow or punch (depending upon whether you believe Kareem, who was first on the scene), so the reaction of Washington wasn't "unprovoked", or out of the blue, and that his contribution to the velocity of impact is that he came in at a dead run, with arms more positioned to strike than act as a peacemaker. I wonder if you found yourself engaged in a fight, and a member of your antagonist's (and I mean that in the sense of whom you were fighting, not who was at fault) crew came up full steam behind you with no time to decide whether he was merely intending to break up the fight or not, would you be 100% sure that you wouldn't instinctively react. I can freely admit I more than likely would assume hostility and conduct myself accordingly. I wonder if you remember the fact that Washington had hung back in the first place was to watch over Kareem, who was having an "unfriendly" and very physical game vs. his opponent, both of which had known bad blood between them. I wonder if you remember that Washington had no particular history of untoward conduct, and has since devoted his life to a wide variety of charitable causes. I wonder if you remember that while owner Jack Kent Cooke traded Washington soon after, for PR reasons, Jerry West was strongly against the move.

At the end of the day, it was merely a tragically unlucky event, obviously more so for Rudy, at least in the short term. But it was hardly a punk act. Given the frequency of fights, the fact that they included punches, and the fact that there were basically no rules to prevent it, or punish it, this occurrence was sadly inevitable. It was just a matter of time. An onrushing man, a large man turning and extending a solid punch, the punch landing squarely, and in precisely the right place. Had the blow merely hit an area of more substantial bone and not fractured Rudy's skull, no one would remember this event, because it quite simply didn't stand out from a myriad of others in any other regard.

The NBA learned from this event about the dangers of letting such large men tee off, and subsequently tightened the rules, including making what Rudy did a violation with a severe penalty. That's a good outcome, as is Rudy's coaching success. It's far beyond time to stop arbitrarily punishing Kermit.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:19 pm    Post subject:

...and here I thought I was gonna have to choose between Rasheed Wallace and Kevin and Garnett.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:30 pm    Post subject:

Lowest Merion wrote:
24 wrote:
Wilkes52 wrote:
Kermit Washington. Trash. Punk. Worthless.


Please. Kermit was and is a good guy. He didn't do anything that a lot of guys haven't done. He was just unlucky in that he landed a direct punch and that Rudy's skull is apparently made of paper machier. It certainly wasn't worse than some of the altercations Artest has had.


You are out of your mind. You almost kill someone on the court, unprovoked, you're making this list. And your Artest comment doesnt work either. Anyone who isn't a Lakers fan would include Artest (and Kobe for that matter) on this list. Kermit *may* be a nice guy but he did what he did.


What's with this unprovoked nonsense? He was in a fight, and Rudy was running at him. What did he need to have happen in order to be provoked? Wait for Rudy to wind up on him? Would that be unprovoked? Rudy was the fourth man in on a melee, and you can argue all you want, but you can't categorically say his intent wasn't to join in. He was running in with what certainly looks like a posture of someone ready to throw a punch. Perhaps not. Perhaps he only intended to grab Kermit. But how can we know? How could Kermit know. As I said, this was a common happening at the time, and nothing was done to discourage it. The only difference was the freak nature of the damage done by the punch.

If I let my kids throw rocks at passing cars, when one gets a rock through a windshield, and hits the driver, is he somehow worse than the rest? No, the reason they all aren't supposed to do that is because exactly that can happen.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:21 pm    Post subject:

24 wrote:
Wilkes52 wrote:
24 wrote:
Wilkes52 wrote:
Kermit Washington. Trash. Punk. Worthless.


Please. Kermit was and is a good guy. He didn't do anything that a lot of guys haven't done. He was just unlucky in that he landed a direct punch and that Rudy's skull is apparently made of paper machier. It certainly wasn't worse than some of the altercations Artest has had.


Please indeed. Put the pipe down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k1i4Ddngg8

Rudy's injuries are because his skull was paper mache' ? Riiight. That punch landed square with much weight and both guys momentum behind it. Unfreaking provoked, Kermit saw Rudy coming and punched his lights out. Kerm would be in jail for years if that had happened off the court.

I was there. It was the most violent, intentional basketball freak show and assault I've ever witnessed. Kermit was booted from our club quicker than you can say punk-be-gone. Yes, he sued for damages, got 'em too, because his contract money was due him. He was blackballed for almost long enough. I hope he rots and for a long time, my friend.


A few things here:

First, I don't condone the punch, nor the suspension, or even some of the other repercussions, merely that he became a pariah for essentially doing something that was commonplace at the time.

Second, you're being in the building, barring some revelation we can't pick up off the birdseye view afforded us by the camera, has no particular trump card value in the discussion.

Third, you leave out a tremendous amount about the event, the events surrounding it, and the time in which it occurs. I wonder if you consider Kareem a punk, the same Kareem who had at that time recently recovered from a broken hand suffered while punching another player in the head. Something for which he received no discipline whatsoever, par for the course in a time when fights were commonplace. I wonder if Rudy T is a punk, he of a certain quantity of "red ass", meaning in this case a healthy measure of combativeness. While by all accounts a fine gentleman, he wasn't averse to the rough and tumble of the era. I wonder if you forget that Rudy was running to the aid of a teammate who had thrown an elbow and either a second elbow or punch (depending upon whether you believe Kareem, who was first on the scene), so the reaction of Washington wasn't "unprovoked", or out of the blue, and that his contribution to the velocity of impact is that he came in at a dead run, with arms more positioned to strike than act as a peacemaker. I wonder if you found yourself engaged in a fight, and a member of your antagonist's (and I mean that in the sense of whom you were fighting, not who was at fault) crew came up full steam behind you with no time to decide whether he was merely intending to break up the fight or not, would you be 100% sure that you wouldn't instinctively react. I can freely admit I more than likely would assume hostility and conduct myself accordingly. I wonder if you remember the fact that Washington had hung back in the first place was to watch over Kareem, who was having an "unfriendly" and very physical game vs. his opponent, both of which had known bad blood between them. I wonder if you remember that Washington had no particular history of untoward conduct, and has since devoted his life to a wide variety of charitable causes. I wonder if you remember that while owner Jack Kent Cooke traded Washington soon after, for PR reasons, Jerry West was strongly against the move.

At the end of the day, it was merely a tragically unlucky event, obviously more so for Rudy, at least in the short term. But it was hardly a punk act. Given the frequency of fights, the fact that they included punches, and the fact that there were basically no rules to prevent it, or punish it, this occurrence was sadly inevitable. It was just a matter of time. An onrushing man, a large man turning and extending a solid punch, the punch landing squarely, and in precisely the right place. Had the blow merely hit an area of more substantial bone and not fractured Rudy's skull, no one would remember this event, because it quite simply didn't stand out from a myriad of others in any other regard.

The NBA learned from this event about the dangers of letting such large men tee off, and subsequently tightened the rules, including making what Rudy did a violation with a severe penalty. That's a good outcome, as is Rudy's coaching success. It's far beyond time to stop arbitrarily punishing Kermit.


24 is absolutely correct. As horrible as that incident was, it wasn't a case of some brazen thug meting out an act of unprovoked savagery on an unwitting victim. It was an extremely unfortunate culmination of events during what was a common and typically contentious fracas that was very common in those days involving two guys who were used to blows being thrown on the floor.

Nothing before that event, nor after, indicates that Washington deserves much of the venom spewed at him in the aftermath. He was a quality man before the incident, and he definitely has been one since, focusing much of his efforts and attention on poverty in Africa and the struggles with HIV in that continent.

People have cast the incident as a horribly savage and malicious act based on the extent of Rudy's injuries and an emotional reaction to them. The Lakers moved Washington in an attempt to distance themselves due to PR issues and a lawsuit, yet at the same time Jerry West was against that move and supportive of Washington because he knew the man's character was not defined by that one mistake.

And for his part, Washington, who spent three decades plus being cast as a violent and aggressive man worthy of contempt, has not dwelt on the people who have done so based on their purely emotional and immediate reaction to what happened. Instead he has simply gone on knowing in his heart that there was no intent to harm Rudy in the way he did. And instead of trying to rehab his own personal image for his own selfish sake and pride, he has focused on trying to make a difference in the lives of those who are continents and deeply serious issues away from a place where what amounts to a sports brawl that went horribly and unintentionally wrong became an infamous legend.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:32 pm    Post subject:

The simple fact is that Rudy ran up on a brawl, apparently either unaware that this might be reacted to as hostile, or else intent on attacking Washington. I don't know which, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but even in that case, a pretty foolish thing to do. Anyone who's been in a brawl will know that if a buddy of the guy you're fighting runs up at you from behind, you aren't really going to wait around to see if he's hostile or a peace maker. As someone with law enforcement and security experience, we quickly learn never to go in to break up a fight with your defenses down, because that guy is very likely to take a swing at you. Common sense really.

Not that Rudy deserved what happened, nor did Kermit really. Like I said, just a tragic case of bad, one in a million luck.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:38 pm    Post subject:

What no Kevin "Lurch" McHale or Danny Ainge?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:25 pm    Post subject:

This topic really gets boring.
Yes I can see that only Celtics, Lebron and Shaq can be douches, especially if they are all stars.

JR Rider, one of the biggest douches ever, and ex-Laker is not een considered.

What is then a douche, basketballwise?

An all-star?

charles barkely had lots of douche-like comments, but I would not consider him a douche bag overall.
how the hell MJ can be a douche? for being a champion?

Why is not Kobe, who almost went to jail after the motel incident, who was accused of flirting a teammate wife, who was the most arrogant kid in his first 3-4 seasons be any better than the others?

Kareem, and kudos to him, isn't it douchy to change someone's name from Lewis to Kareem? Give me a break.

Another big douche is Tim Hardaway and his "hate gay people" comments.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:27 pm    Post subject:

carlosLisboa wrote:
Why is not Kobe, who almost went to jail after the motel incident, who was accused of flirting a teammate wife, who was the most arrogant kid in his first 3-4 seasons be any better than the others?


wat
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:31 pm    Post subject:

drzucchini wrote:
carlosLisboa wrote:
Why is not Kobe, who almost went to jail after the motel incident, who was accused of flirting a teammate wife, who was the most arrogant kid in his first 3-4 seasons be any better than the others?


wat


didn't Malone accuse him of making a pass at his wife?
I am quite positive of hearing something about it...
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:33 pm    Post subject:

carlosLisboa wrote:
drzucchini wrote:
carlosLisboa wrote:
Why is not Kobe, who almost went to jail after the motel incident, who was accused of flirting a teammate wife, who was the most arrogant kid in his first 3-4 seasons be any better than the others?


wat


didn't Malone accuse him of making a pass at his wife?
I am quite positive of hearing something about it...


Other way around.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:02 am    Post subject:

Lol
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:19 am    Post subject:

Doc Rivers.


Fail thread for not including him
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:23 am    Post subject:

Good topic, but can't chose as that list is makes it really hard to pick who is the king of the douches. I will say that list is all time douche bag list that's for sure
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:36 am    Post subject:

I'm not sure why some of the people are this list except for just plain biased.

I don't like Red, but I won't consider him a d-bag. The things he did for his black his players/team in the 60s take him of this list. Charles Barkely? Come on, he's guit of having a big mouth, an ego. At this level, they are have egos and have said some crazy ish...

In looking at this list, there are people I don't like, people that say crazy things, people that have an ego (like most people at that level)... but then there are people that impregnated a minor, then refused to support the kid. And after being forced by a court to provide financial support, pennies compared to what they made, and still had nothing to do with their children... he basically pretended they didn't exist/didn't acknowledge their existence... That's a whole different level of d-baggery then saying you are better than MJ and Bird.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:39 am    Post subject:

[quote="24"]The simple fact is that Rudy ran up on a brawl, apparently either unaware that this might be reacted to as hostile, or else intent on attacking Washington. I don't know which, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but even in that case, a pretty foolish thing to do. Anyone who's been in a brawl will know that if a buddy of the guy you're fighting runs up at you from behind, you aren't really going to wait around to see if he's hostile or a peace maker. As someone with law enforcement and security experience, we quickly learn never to go in to break up a fight with your defenses down, because that guy is very likely to take a swing at you. Common sense really.

Not that Rudy deserved what happened, nor did Kermit really. Like I said, just a tragic case of bad, one in a million luck.[/quote]

I'm an attorney. Let me explain something to you.

While you call for the use of common sense on a basketball court, you expect license to do exactly the opposite for Kermit. Life and the law is not like that.

We don't know what Rudy was - or wasn't - going to do. What he did hurt no one. Period. We do know Kermit assaulted him and busted him up, without cause. Claiming legitimacy of KW's actions due to mob rule is no excuse, NONE.

NOT taking a swing at a player is the common sense action here. Open your eyes fella. Kermit's actions were wayyyyyy out of line, it's action indefensible. I'd have loved to have taken that turkey on in court.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:07 am    Post subject:

If I had to choose just one, I'd go Ced Maxwell. F U. He's still talking junk.

I really don't have affinity for King With No Ring, though.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:26 am    Post subject:

70sdude wrote:
24 wrote:
The simple fact is that Rudy ran up on a brawl, apparently either unaware that this might be reacted to as hostile, or else intent on attacking Washington. I don't know which, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but even in that case, a pretty foolish thing to do. Anyone who's been in a brawl will know that if a buddy of the guy you're fighting runs up at you from behind, you aren't really going to wait around to see if he's hostile or a peace maker. As someone with law enforcement and security experience, we quickly learn never to go in to break up a fight with your defenses down, because that guy is very likely to take a swing at you. Common sense really.

Not that Rudy deserved what happened, nor did Kermit really. Like I said, just a tragic case of bad, one in a million luck.


I'm an attorney. Let me explain something to you.

While you call for the use of common sense on a basketball court, you expect license to do exactly the opposite for Kermit. Life and the law is not like that.

We don't know what Rudy was - or wasn't - going to do. What he did hurt no one. Period. We do know Kermit assaulted him and busted him up, without cause. Claiming legitimacy of KW's actions due to mob rule is no excuse, NONE.

NOT taking a swing at a player is the common sense action here. Open your eyes fella. Kermit's actions were wayyyyyy out of line, it's action indefensible. I'd have loved to have taken that turkey on in court.


I have side with 24 on this one. What Kermit did was wrong, no doubt, however you have look at the context of the situation, what was going on at the time of the incident, what was happening in the league at that time.

He was in an altercation/fight on the court when an opposing player was charging him from the backside... he turned a throw a punch in defensive. His intent was to defend himself. Its not like he unprovokingly clotheslined a player ala Raja Bell. I'm not excusing the behavior, he was wrong... but you also have to look at what lead to that punch. He didn't just out of the blue cold-cocked Rudy for no reason.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:40 am    Post subject:

What led to the punch was Kermit, doing his "job" in responding to on-court chaos. His intent is definitely not in question and it was not self protection. His entire Laker history was being the team thug to beat up guys who push Kareem around. It's no excuse though, it's an explanation, not justification. He had a brain fart, he screwed up, no excuses.

Check out how two Laker fans supposedly got into a tussle over a twitter story and try to keep a straight face. Justified ?

http://lakersblog.latimes.com/lakersblog/2010/08/lakers-comment-on-facebook-leads-to-a-brawl-during-kindergarten-graduation.html
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:09 am    Post subject:

carlosLisboa wrote:
drzucchini wrote:
carlosLisboa wrote:
Why is not Kobe, who almost went to jail after the motel incident, who was accused of flirting a teammate wife, who was the most arrogant kid in his first 3-4 seasons be any better than the others?


wat


didn't Malone accuse him of making a pass at his wife?
I am quite positive of hearing something about it...




If you are going to try and throw a guy under a bus, at least get your facts straight. Kobe's wife Vanessa accused Karl Malone of hitting on her and told Kobe about it, thus there was some tension between he and Karl.

Kobe didn't "almost go to jail" over Eagle. The case was weak and was throw out before the trail even got going.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:48 am    Post subject:

70sdude wrote:
24 wrote:
The simple fact is that Rudy ran up on a brawl, apparently either unaware that this might be reacted to as hostile, or else intent on attacking Washington. I don't know which, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but even in that case, a pretty foolish thing to do. Anyone who's been in a brawl will know that if a buddy of the guy you're fighting runs up at you from behind, you aren't really going to wait around to see if he's hostile or a peace maker. As someone with law enforcement and security experience, we quickly learn never to go in to break up a fight with your defenses down, because that guy is very likely to take a swing at you. Common sense really.

Not that Rudy deserved what happened, nor did Kermit really. Like I said, just a tragic case of bad, one in a million luck.


I'm an attorney. Let me explain something to you.

While you call for the use of common sense on a basketball court, you expect license to do exactly the opposite for Kermit. Life and the law is not like that.

We don't know what Rudy was - or wasn't - going to do. What he did hurt no one. Period. We do know Kermit assaulted him and busted him up, without cause. Claiming legitimacy of KW's actions due to mob rule is no excuse, NONE.

NOT taking a swing at a player is the common sense action here. Open your eyes fella. Kermit's actions were wayyyyyy out of line, it's action indefensible. I'd have loved to have taken that turkey on in court.


Well, the City Attorneys of the time decided not to pursue a criminal case and the civil case was resolved out of court. So that's how the legalities of it played out.

As for the realities (the stuff that goes on in the real world outside of lawyers arguing law), people at the time and since the incident have demonized Washington and overreacted to the incident. No one is arguing that what Kermit did was the right thing to do. But it is something that was understandable under the circumstances and was no different than other common behavior in the league at the time. You yourself say that no one knows what Rudy's intent was. The reason he didn't hurt anyone is he got hit before he hit anyone else - that doesn't mean he had no intent to engage in a fight. And it's certainly not something that Kermit could have decided in the instant Rudy was charging at him.

We can go on and on about what legal standards say, or what moral standards some people feel need to be applied. But the truth of the matter is if Kermit swing a moment later or earlier and Rudy's face doesn't get injured the event would have been a non-issue that likely barely gets mentioned in the articles written after the game - just like every other on court altercation in those days - which were very, very common.

People's emotional reaction to Rudy's injuries caused them to overreact to the incident and needlessly cast Kermit as a malicious thug whose intent was to send Rudy into a coma which wasn't the case.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:08 am    Post subject:

I agree in part and disagree in part. There wasn't a "brawl." Even by the standards of the time, Kermit's punch was shocking. But likewise no one got prosecuted for that stuff back in those days.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:16 am    Post subject:

Kermit has expressed naught but contrition since the punch and has done nothing but good works since. He has helped many, many more people than he has hurt.
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