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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
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 Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| BILBJH wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | BILBJH wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Listen, I really cannot sympathize if you jump in with LBJ, chances are you will get a ring out of it. But you may also suffer the exit wound of the LBJ experience too.
She can't have it both ways and make the fanbase only sympathize with her. She can't be so naive to say that she didn't know that this may be the ending. She wanted the Lakers to be relevant again, and she got LBJ to join which in the past 15 years of the NBA, is as close to going from a non-contender to a contender overnight.
So for her and Rob to be trying to throw LBJ/Klutch under the bus, is a terrible terrible look and does not bode well for the franchise going forward IMO. Which future FA wants to deal with that? |
And I think Klutch throwing the Lakers under the bus is also a terrible look.
In this battle of wills... I'm backing the Lakers over Klutch... I don't care if we have to rebuild from scratch again. |
Why is this a bad look for Klutch?
This is Jeanie's team. Just like when Dr. Buss told Kobe that he won't trade him and then worked on a plan to put a competitive team around him, what is Jeanie/Rob doing? |
Good... you back Klutch... that is your right.
I prefer the Lakers. |
When did I say I back Klutch? I'm saying this is a terrible look from a franchise that Klutch got back into contention, and now you're trying to scapegoat them b/c you as the owner/control group of the Lakers executed the Russ trade?
Players are one of the worst judges of talent sometimes. They can't see the forest for the trees. Sure, take it under advisement, but if you can't come out and take ownership of that Russ trade, maybe being an owner isn't the thing for you. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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Put simply, this level of dysfunction, with reportedly Rob/maybe Jeanie firing back at Klutch/LBJ+AD, does this objectively make the Lakers a more appealing place for future agents or less?
I mean you help a team go from perennial lotto picks to the championship, and then you engage in this media war with the top two guys and their agency?
Be objective. Lakers are not looking good at all over here. LBJ is a portable entity and can take his talents elsewhere, we are stuck with the same owner(s) and likely GM. |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | Put simply, this level of dysfunction, with reportedly Rob/maybe Jeanie firing back at Klutch/LBJ+AD, does this objectively make the Lakers a more appealing place for future agents or less?
I mean you help a team go from perennial lotto picks to the championship, and then you engage in this media war with the top two guys and their agency?
Be objective. Lakers are not looking good at all over here. LBJ is a portable entity and can take his talents elsewhere, we are stuck with the same owner(s) and likely GM. |
I doubt it matters. The Lakers have constantly been in media wars. We've had media wars with Wilt, Magic, Shaq, Kobe, Gasol, Odom, Jerry West, Phil, and Lebron. It's been a constant part of the franchise.
If that bothers a player, they wouldn't likely come here anyway. Many players will want to be in Los Angeles, some won't. Then it becomes a matter of what other players we are able to put around them. |
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Outspoken
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Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 8453
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| BILBJH wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | BILBJH wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | At the end of the day, LBJ, AD, are just players who play for the Lakers.
Jeanie. Rob. Those are the institutional pieces that stay when the LBJs/ADs and other players move on.
That they are trying to pin this on players to me, rubs the wrong way, and sends a horrible message to prospective FAs in the future. Once people get past their hatred of LBJ/Klutch, IMO, this is the troubling part. We have institutional vanguards and guardrails, and those are Jeanie and Rob. At the end of the day the buck stops with them. (which is why as much as blame them a lot for today's issues, I will credit them for the 2020 ring too). |
If they are lying about the players... then sure it sends the wrong message.
If they are telling the truth... then why shouldn't they?
Both sides are throwing each other under the bus. I don't think it would stop most from signing unless they were lying about the players.
I'm sure some players have as much apprehension about playing with LBJ as they do about the Lakers.
Remember KD said he didn't want to play with LBJ... but he never said he wouldn't play for the Lakers.
I think star players can prove to be an obstacle as well as poor management.
It works both ways. |
Do you really trust Rob? I mean, he seems snaky to me.
But again, you are sending the wrong message to prospective FAs. Better to keep silent about this and fix issues. Now you look like you're trying to wage war against your two best players and their agency to absolve yourself when you are the institutional heart of the Lakers. Jeanie has every right to say no to LBJ/AD re: Russ, but clearly she didn't. You're an owner. Own that. |
I think Rob looks out for himself... but I'm not sure if snaky is what I use to describe him. He's not my kind of person... but obviously Kobe trusted him for years so I'm not sure how he's intrinsically more snaky than say what Rich might be.
If he's standing up to a powerful force like LBJ and Klutch it actually makes me respect him more than before... I'm not saying who's right or who's wrong on this Wall situation... but if I was playing ball with some players and they threw me under the bus... I certainly wouldn't stay quiet about it.
LBJ and Klutch threw out the first salvo when they said Rob was lying about agreeing to standing pat.
He could be lying about that... but if so, that seems really dumb... so I'm thinking it's a misinterpretation about what standing pat means.
Once you call some a liar... Rob had the option of just taking it... but instead suddenly stories leak about what might have been happening.
All I see is two agents doing battle in the court of the public opinion.
Why would Rob let one side control the narrative? |
The bold is interesting, because it slipped my mind that Rob was once an agent. The agent of one the best basketball players ever in Kobe and understands how things operate in the agent field. So it may be Rob putting on his agent jacket and battling Rich Paul. Hmmm... |
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Outspoken
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | ^Fam, I agree with all y’all in that there’s plenty of blame to go around, but ultimately it will and has to fall on Rob/Kurt. It does start with ownership/Jeanie. I mean look at the Knicks. You dont ever want to become the Knicks…but its undeniable that it’s been Dolan all along. Thankfully for us, Jeanie is still a likable individual. She probably wants to keep that public perception and will choose to go with more credentialed/deserving FO rather than entertain selling. We’re probably better off with new ownership, but that does not seem to be the most practical and likeliest of outcomes.
I find it highly dubious the Buss’s will ever sell their cash cow, no matter how many magic beans are presented to them (or are in their ear). So instead of stalking former Lakers to keep the business in the family, they gotta out source for actual certified giants in the exec game. That is our most practical route we can take till/if the Lakers find new ownership.
| Lakeshow23_ wrote: | | vasashi17+ wrote: | ^^ Hahaha
We know who Klutch wants as their next GM…and frankly Laker fans should be pushing for this guy too! He knows how to make the best outta working with cheap ass ownership. That’s something our current FO clearly can’t do.
https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1495096029007466496
Rob ain’t it folks and we should be giving him his flowers too…over his grave.
Here “lies” the former Lakers VPoBO/GM …RIP (aka Rob Is the Problem)
We got 99 problems and it all comes back to one…
#pROBlem |
Can you direct me to a list of all the awful moves this front office has made since 2018? IIRC, I saw a post of yours that detailed all of their flubs. Thanks. |
TL;dr: Rob has always been a terrible negotiator; other than Bron, can’t close on our prioritized targets; Rob’s star trades are always overpays even when it appears that we have the leverage in those trade talks; Rob’s non-star trades don’t pan out. Rob’s scrapped trades also seem to be highly dubious, so thankfully they didn’t come to fruition; Rob couldn’t close on our top coaching prospects, couldn’t close on our top FA prospects. So it appears that the only way dude is successful is if we get another in-season pause right before the playoffs again.
2018:
-cleared cap space for 2 max players by getting off Moz’s deal using DLo (who could also jam up the books with his inevitable deal), getting off JC’s deal using Nance (who could also jam up the books with his inevitable deal); ultimately it led to just adding Bron tho
-after landing Bron tho, we could have renounced Jules RFA caphold and stretched Deng for roughly another max guy, but instead found no takers…now instead of retaining Jules as a RFA or keeping him to attach to Deng later in a trade to clear cap for 2019, we end up losing #7 overall pick in Jules for nothing and decide to stretch Deng anyways creating that absurd 5m cap hit for 2019 free agency and beyond, which we’re still paying for (see 16m+ in luxury taxes for this year)
-we let BLo walk for nothing, when he would have been a great former allstar big to add to Bron till we got a more current allstar (in AD).
-waived TBryant’s trivial cap hold for additional cap space that went unrealized; but Washington ate off that transaction and there was still much more to come their way…yikes!
The 2018 offseason heading into the 2018/19 season had Magic at the helm, but Rob has always been there “lying” in the “cuts” just trashing our assets and cap space when he wasn’t too busy stabbing Magic in the back…and of course all that continued after Magic quit. So for all those clamoring about how our FO was elite after Magic bounced…nope!
2019:
-traded for AD but my goodness did we give up entirely too much even after AD (and his pops) took Boston away from the bidding war…even after the Pels were gifted Zion & we were gifted another asset in the #4 overall pick…even after that lame Demps was dumped to bring in Griff who had great rapport with Klutch…how Rob managed to “negotiate” our draft capital deferment so that we cannot currently trade a future unconditional 1st till 2027 at the earliest is wild…how Rob couldn’t “negotiate” having the AD trade delayed for 30 days to involve the #4 pick in salary aggregation to Griff who did the same thing with the Wiggins for Love trade as the Cavs GM is wild…
-dumped further assets in Mo (who was the 1st we actually got in the JC/Nance trade to the Cavs), Bonga, JJ, future 2nd) & had AD waive his trade kicker to gain back a max slot for Kawhi only to have done all that for nothing when he couldn’t close on that max spot for Kawhi or any other max guy…trading for AD after we used cap space would have been the way to go in making sure “assets” weren’t lost for nothing….instead we traded for AD before using that cap space and had to scramble to recoup that lost cap space to offer a max slot, which went unrealized anyways….just wild stuff folks
-also that 2019 cap space was opened up even further by dumping Zu’s RFA caphold and Svi’s rookie min deal along with yet another future 2nd rounder at the 2018/19 trade deadline for the expiring deals of Musc/Bullock…wild wild wild
-after using up all our cap space and room exception on Green/Kcp/McGee/Boogie/Cook/AC, we could not offer THT anything else but a 2yr rookie minimum deal; had we used a portion of our cap space/room exception to sign THT, we could have offered him a 3yr+ rookie minimum deal (and we’ll ACknowledge why that’s so important later)
Yeah we won a title, but you can’t ignore that thought bubble: what if we didn’t have a 4 month in season hiatus before the playoffs
2020:
-blitzed the Schro trade when there wasn’t even a market established for dude yet; we’ll soon find out why Russhing the market isn’t such a great idea; btw, how the F are you getting on the phone with Presti/OKC and not closing on a Cp3 deal instead…wild Wild West
-hardcapping yourself with Trez (and Wes) and then losing even more assets just to get Marc Gasol on a pseudo 1yr deal at 5.3m when we could have just signed him to a two successive 1yr vet min deals and have league incentive his pay past 1.7m per year…wild
But we supposedly lost another go at our title defense by being up 2-1 on the Suns on a short turn around year…completely ignoring that Cp3 was dealing with his own injury and the only reason we’re on a tithe defense is cause of the 4 month pause in the previous season leading to a deep playoff run. Our rosters have been flawed since making Bron the de facto PG. what made the Schro trade so bad is that he refused to take the role he had in Okc where he backed up the point gawd and SGA by coming off the bench.
2021:
-do I really need to go into this year really?! If the mission has been to bring in 3max guys and surround them with old head / has been “namers” the mission finally f’n accomplished. Congrats on finally getting your big3…congrats on bringing in Laker retreads and having their vet min deals make up 2/3rds of our roster…congrats on having Deng’s corpse on your books along with prematurely paying THT a year in advance only to show a fan favorite the door during our title window…it’s not like dude’s a GOAT or plays well off Bron or anything..wild!
-gave Nunn 5m of the 5.89m mMLE; had we given Nunn 35k less where there was 925k remaining from our mMLE, we could have offered Reaves a 3yr rookie minimum deal
-made the same mistake we did with THT and gave Reaves a 2yr rookie min deal using the vet minimum exception; now during the offseason of 2023, do we set up yet another decision between Reaves and another player so that we avoid getting hit with a harder tax bill?
I’m sure I missed some transactions within this list, but Rob’s been here from the jump repeating the same mistakes over and over again. Instead of making that knife vanish, he should have followed Magic’s lead and taken his own backside out the door. Dude needs to disappear already. |
This is a really good post, though we can't just dismiss Magic and him being a bad executive. He is the one who traded DLO+Moz to the Nets, in my opinion too early. Before we could see how him and Zo, along with our young assets worked together. He shed salary, whatever, but then he is also the one that dropped Zubac in the Clippers lap for nothing. Well, Mus, but that's really nothing, and the fact that Zubac was having a really good year with us. He offered the Pelicans Zo, Ingram, Kuzma, Josh Hart, Zubac for AD. |
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vasashi17+
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Joined: 13 Dec 2019
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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^Thx OS, but unless you think NBA Twitter made Magic so well rehearsed in the CBA that he could work our books without Rob’s input, then I have a hard time believing Magic was the sole guy making those cap clearing moves.
The one move Magic made sans Rob was LouWill for Htown’s 28th pick at the 2016/17 trade deadline. That allowed our team to tank to grab Zo at #2 as well as turn #28 into Hart/TB (@ picks 30 & 42 respectively).
Listen, you’re only as good as your options and when Magic got off Twitter and into the office, someone delivered those options to his desk.
| Quote: | If Pelinka was telling people that Magic was mostly MIA, he wasn’t exactly spilling state secrets. This had been a topic of great discussion for quite some time, with innumerable other sources who saw it first-hand saying the same thing. One agent who deals with the Lakers, for example, found all the handwringing about Magic’s exit comical at the time because – duh – Pelinka had been running the front office without Johnson the entire time as it was.
https://theathletic.com/987128/2019/05/21/amick-magics-tired-act-hurting-his-good-name-and-beloved-lakers/
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| ContagiousInspiration wrote: | I wonder how much "durability" played in the decision to hire Westbrook
Injuries stopped us last year and iirc Russ is somewhat of an Ironman *That is not equal to ClankMaster 
Just too much leveraging of our future via physical assets
Tried to steal money from the ticket holders and keep from paying tax But now the fans are pissed and want heads to roll. |
I have thought the same, part of the reason for bringing in Westbrook could be Lebron recognizing his own mortality. He realized he needed more help and can’t count on AD for that.
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Outspoken
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Joined: 11 Feb 2015
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | ^Thx OS, but unless you think NBA Twitter made Magic so well rehearsed in the CBA that he could work our books without Rob’s input, then I have a hard time believing Magic was the sole guy making those cap clearing moves.
The one move Magic made sans Rob was LouWill for Htown’s 28th pick at the 2016/17 trade deadline. That allowed our team to tank to grab Zo at #2 as well as turn #28 into Hart/TB (@ picks 30 & 42 respectively).
Listen, you’re only as good as your options and when Magic got off Twitter and into the office, someone delivered those options to his desk.
| Quote: | If Pelinka was telling people that Magic was mostly MIA, he wasn’t exactly spilling state secrets. This had been a topic of great discussion for quite some time, with innumerable other sources who saw it first-hand saying the same thing. One agent who deals with the Lakers, for example, found all the handwringing about Magic’s exit comical at the time because – duh – Pelinka had been running the front office without Johnson the entire time as it was.
https://theathletic.com/987128/2019/05/21/amick-magics-tired-act-hurting-his-good-name-and-beloved-lakers/
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I think he did have Rob's input, but those particular moves I named was Magic's idea. Magic said those particular moves were his idea after he quit. I think as a unified force, they were terrible. Divided, it has not stopped. Can you imagine if Magic had a competent GM saying no, we shouldn't do that? Magic most likely would follow suit. Magic wanted Rob the GM to run it, he just oversees it. That's why he was never there. He had other businesses. Come to him if there's a move that's gonna be done. Essentially like a boss. If we had say a Mitch running things, it would have been that much better because Magic would have just let him run it. Kurt wouldn't be a problem because Magic would shut him up. Linda wouldn't be a problem because i believe Jeanie trusts Magic more than Linda. |
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Dr. Laker
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Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17108
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Outspoken wrote: | | vasashi17+ wrote: | ^Thx OS, but unless you think NBA Twitter made Magic so well rehearsed in the CBA that he could work our books without Rob’s input, then I have a hard time believing Magic was the sole guy making those cap clearing moves.
The one move Magic made sans Rob was LouWill for Htown’s 28th pick at the 2016/17 trade deadline. That allowed our team to tank to grab Zo at #2 as well as turn #28 into Hart/TB (@ picks 30 & 42 respectively).
Listen, you’re only as good as your options and when Magic got off Twitter and into the office, someone delivered those options to his desk.
| Quote: | If Pelinka was telling people that Magic was mostly MIA, he wasn’t exactly spilling state secrets. This had been a topic of great discussion for quite some time, with innumerable other sources who saw it first-hand saying the same thing. One agent who deals with the Lakers, for example, found all the handwringing about Magic’s exit comical at the time because – duh – Pelinka had been running the front office without Johnson the entire time as it was.
https://theathletic.com/987128/2019/05/21/amick-magics-tired-act-hurting-his-good-name-and-beloved-lakers/
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I think he did have Rob's input, but those particular moves I named was Magic's idea. Magic said those particular moves were his idea after he quit. I think as a unified force, they were terrible. Divided, it has not stopped. Can you imagine if Magic had a competent GM saying no, we shouldn't do that? Magic most likely would follow suit. Magic wanted Rob the GM to run it, he just oversees it. That's why he was never there. He had other businesses. Come to him if there's a move that's gonna be done. Essentially like a boss. If we had say a Mitch running things, it would have been that much better because Magic would have just let him run it. Kurt wouldn't be a problem because Magic would shut him up. Linda wouldn't be a problem because i believe Jeanie trusts Magic more than Linda. |
I think Magic's ego would not have allowed that, hence Magic went to Jeanie to fire Rob and instead got outmaneuvered.
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Threatt_Level
Starting Rotation
Joined: 30 Jul 2014
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Outspoken wrote: | | Magic wanted Rob the GM to run it, he just oversees it. That's why he was never there. He had other businesses. Come to him if there's a move that's gonna be done. Essentially like a boss. If we had say a Mitch running things, it would have been that much better because Magic would have just let him run it. |
If that was all Magic was going to do for this team, then what was the point of firing Jim Buss? Wasn't Jim already doing that? |
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pokoy
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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This isn’t “the Lakers” vs Klutch. This is Jeannie Buss and her underwhelming “brain trust” vs Klutch.
Jerry West is 1000x the Laker that any of that front office are, and they just took his season tickets away. Jeannie and her minions can all leave for all I care and let someone who can compete with the other billionaire owners take over. |
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Outspoken
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Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 8453
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | vasashi17+ wrote: | ^Thx OS, but unless you think NBA Twitter made Magic so well rehearsed in the CBA that he could work our books without Rob’s input, then I have a hard time believing Magic was the sole guy making those cap clearing moves.
The one move Magic made sans Rob was LouWill for Htown’s 28th pick at the 2016/17 trade deadline. That allowed our team to tank to grab Zo at #2 as well as turn #28 into Hart/TB (@ picks 30 & 42 respectively).
Listen, you’re only as good as your options and when Magic got off Twitter and into the office, someone delivered those options to his desk.
| Quote: | If Pelinka was telling people that Magic was mostly MIA, he wasn’t exactly spilling state secrets. This had been a topic of great discussion for quite some time, with innumerable other sources who saw it first-hand saying the same thing. One agent who deals with the Lakers, for example, found all the handwringing about Magic’s exit comical at the time because – duh – Pelinka had been running the front office without Johnson the entire time as it was.
https://theathletic.com/987128/2019/05/21/amick-magics-tired-act-hurting-his-good-name-and-beloved-lakers/
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I think he did have Rob's input, but those particular moves I named was Magic's idea. Magic said those particular moves were his idea after he quit. I think as a unified force, they were terrible. Divided, it has not stopped. Can you imagine if Magic had a competent GM saying no, we shouldn't do that? Magic most likely would follow suit. Magic wanted Rob the GM to run it, he just oversees it. That's why he was never there. He had other businesses. Come to him if there's a move that's gonna be done. Essentially like a boss. If we had say a Mitch running things, it would have been that much better because Magic would have just let him run it. Kurt wouldn't be a problem because Magic would shut him up. Linda wouldn't be a problem because i believe Jeanie trusts Magic more than Linda. |
I think Magic's ego would not have allowed that, hence Magic went to Jeanie to fire Rob and instead got outmaneuvered. |
Fair point and I can see that as well. Magic is also the person that wanted Worthy traded and when Worthy won finals MVP, Magic didn't hesitate to say it was still his team. |
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ContagiousInspiration
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Joined: 07 May 2014
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Location: Boulder ;)
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | ContagiousInspiration wrote: | I wonder how much "durability" played in the decision to hire Westbrook
Injuries stopped us last year and iirc Russ is somewhat of an Ironman *That is not equal to ClankMaster
Just too much leveraging of our future via physical assets
Tried to steal money from the ticket holders and keep from paying tax But now the fans are pissed and want heads to roll. |
I have thought the same, part of the reason for bringing in Westbrook could be Lebron recognizing his own mortality. He realized he needed more help and can’t count on AD for that. |
Russ and Nunn were probably envisioned sprinting the floor together
Like others I am still not sure about THT.. He is bringing much more to the table the last couple games.
Trying to see Pelinkas mindset
And to imagine DeRozan vs Russ .. is there a rofcmao emoji?
DeMar DeRozan thought it was ‘done deal’ that he was joining the Lakers in offseason
SilverScreenandRoll
| Quote: | July 31, 2021 - Brad Turner of the Los Angeles Times reports that DeRozan had his “sights set” on joining the Lakers
but he wouldn’t take a “significant” pay cut after the team traded for Westbrook. |
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jonnybravo
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| pokoy wrote: | This isn’t “the Lakers” vs Klutch. This is Jeannie Buss and her underwhelming “brain trust” vs Klutch.
Jerry West is 1000x the Laker that any of that front office are, and they just took his season tickets away. Jeannie and her minions can all leave for all I care and let someone who can compete with the other billionaire owners take over. |
Once again for those in the back to hear!
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Hard_Butter
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Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 12228
Location: The Two One Three
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| pokoy wrote: | This isn’t “the Lakers” vs Klutch. This is Jeannie Buss and her underwhelming “brain trust” vs Klutch.
Jerry West is 1000x the Laker that any of that front office are, and they just took his season tickets away. Jeannie and her minions can all leave for all I care and let someone who can compete with the other billionaire owners take over. |
....or better yet, imagine this team being run by Pat Riley? He was the one guy to go tell Bron and his cohorts to f off. Pat was one of ours. Laker player, Lakers HC, and to this day one of the best executives. The counter is that Pat bolted as soon as Magic's HIV retirement and opted for greener pastures in NY. He left us. But to your point, if Jeanie (and to a lesser extent Jerry) really wanted to leave this franchise in good/familiar hands......West and/or Riley would've been choice.
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RG73
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Joined: 14 Jul 2001
Posts: 11508
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Put simply, this level of dysfunction, with reportedly Rob/maybe Jeanie firing back at Klutch/LBJ+AD, does this objectively make the Lakers a more appealing place for future agents or less?
I mean you help a team go from perennial lotto picks to the championship, and then you engage in this media war with the top two guys and their agency?
Be objective. Lakers are not looking good at all over here. LBJ is a portable entity and can take his talents elsewhere, we are stuck with the same owner(s) and likely GM. |
I doubt it matters. The Lakers have constantly been in media wars. We've had media wars with Wilt, Magic, Shaq, Kobe, Gasol, Odom, Jerry West, Phil, and Lebron. It's been a constant part of the franchise.
If that bothers a player, they wouldn't likely come here anyway. Many players will want to be in Los Angeles, some won't. Then it becomes a matter of what other players we are able to put around them. |
The Lakers very public dysfunction likely played a major role in the inability to recruit any major free agents after 2010 and prior to Lebron signing. So I would argue the very public display of organizational dysfunction was and will again be a major problem for the team.
After Lebron is gone the team is up against a Clippers team with vastly deeper pockets, a more professional front office, a new arena and all the same pluses of playing in Los Angeles. So in that case the dysfunction becomes a major recruiting handicap. If you're a star player and you have the option of Ballmer or Jeanie and you see that Jeanie that threw that man that made her franchise relevant again under the bus, one of the all time greats, do you honestly think that won't make a difference? Maybe not for guys just looking for a payday, but you're not going to recruit generational talent. And even if you luck into drafting such a player again, the same dysfunction may well drive said player away (and rest assured that Klutch will try to represent any star college player who might get drafted by the Lakers). So the Lakers are also building ill will with a major agent--which Rob should know is idiotic. Teams should not make enemies of agents, best in their generation players, or their fans. Jeanie is working on all of that. |
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cthroatgtr
Star Player
Joined: 21 Aug 2005
Posts: 1375
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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In baseball the A's taught teams how to be smart. Eventually the Red Sox and Yankees learned from them and are better run now. The Lakers need to move forward not backward. That means using advanced analytics to help make decisions. Stop trying to be the old Lakers and instead be forward thinking. Invest in areas to improve team conditioning & health, analytics to better assess players, etc. Stop trying to build a team of superstars.
Most of all Jeanie needs to stop saying "My father would do it this way..." those days are long past.
Basically be smart like small market teams while having the advantage of being the Lakers and being in Los Angeles where you can outspend everyone else regarding non-player advantages. |
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LakerSD
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 23788
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| cthroatgtr wrote: | In baseball the A's taught teams how to be smart. Eventually the Red Sox and Yankees learned from them and are better run now. The Lakers need to move forward not backward. That means using advanced analytics to help make decisions. Stop trying to be the old Lakers and instead be forward thinking. Invest in areas to improve team conditioning & health, analytics to better assess players, etc. Stop trying to build a team of superstars.
Most of all Jeanie needs to stop saying "My father would do it this way..." those days are long past.
Basically be smart like small market teams while having the advantage of being the Lakers and being in Los Angeles where you can outspend everyone else regarding non-player advantages. |
All I ask is for them to be run like the Dodgers are now. Really hope the now Lakers minority owner gets them soon.
Despite the endless pockets, people don’t realize how loaded the Dodgers are in terms of prospects. Every team in MLB wants their top end prospects. It isn’t just buying every FA they want. |
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Hard_Butter
Franchise Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 12228
Location: The Two One Three
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | | cthroatgtr wrote: | In baseball the A's taught teams how to be smart. Eventually the Red Sox and Yankees learned from them and are better run now. The Lakers need to move forward not backward. That means using advanced analytics to help make decisions. Stop trying to be the old Lakers and instead be forward thinking. Invest in areas to improve team conditioning & health, analytics to better assess players, etc. Stop trying to build a team of superstars.
Most of all Jeanie needs to stop saying "My father would do it this way..." those days are long past.
Basically be smart like small market teams while having the advantage of being the Lakers and being in Los Angeles where you can outspend everyone else regarding non-player advantages. |
All I ask is for them to be run like the Dodgers are now. Really hope the now Lakers minority owner gets them soon.
Despite the endless pockets, people don’t realize how loaded the Dodgers are in terms of prospects. Every team in MLB wants their top end prospects. It isn’t just buying every FA they want. |
Simply put...it's Andrew Friedman. Friedman with deep pockets is a very scary thing. He's Billy Beane on steroids. If Andrew Friedman knew basketball and was the Lakers GM, we'd be really happy right about now.
_________________
The butter's hard and the eggs are chillin' in the dark.
Kiss my Converse. |
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Halflife
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 16747
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Hard_Butter wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | | cthroatgtr wrote: | In baseball the A's taught teams how to be smart. Eventually the Red Sox and Yankees learned from them and are better run now. The Lakers need to move forward not backward. That means using advanced analytics to help make decisions. Stop trying to be the old Lakers and instead be forward thinking. Invest in areas to improve team conditioning & health, analytics to better assess players, etc. Stop trying to build a team of superstars.
Most of all Jeanie needs to stop saying "My father would do it this way..." those days are long past.
Basically be smart like small market teams while having the advantage of being the Lakers and being in Los Angeles where you can outspend everyone else regarding non-player advantages. |
All I ask is for them to be run like the Dodgers are now. Really hope the now Lakers minority owner gets them soon.
Despite the endless pockets, people don’t realize how loaded the Dodgers are in terms of prospects. Every team in MLB wants their top end prospects. It isn’t just buying every FA they want. |
Simply put...it's Andrew Friedman. Friedman with deep pockets is a very scary thing. He's Billy Beane on steroids. If Andrew Friedman knew basketball and was the Lakers GM, we'd be really happy right about now. |
or we would be OKC.
_________________
Kobe.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Clw9scopegx/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= |
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Hard_Butter
Franchise Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 12228
Location: The Two One Three
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | Hard_Butter wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | | cthroatgtr wrote: | In baseball the A's taught teams how to be smart. Eventually the Red Sox and Yankees learned from them and are better run now. The Lakers need to move forward not backward. That means using advanced analytics to help make decisions. Stop trying to be the old Lakers and instead be forward thinking. Invest in areas to improve team conditioning & health, analytics to better assess players, etc. Stop trying to build a team of superstars.
Most of all Jeanie needs to stop saying "My father would do it this way..." those days are long past.
Basically be smart like small market teams while having the advantage of being the Lakers and being in Los Angeles where you can outspend everyone else regarding non-player advantages. |
All I ask is for them to be run like the Dodgers are now. Really hope the now Lakers minority owner gets them soon.
Despite the endless pockets, people don’t realize how loaded the Dodgers are in terms of prospects. Every team in MLB wants their top end prospects. It isn’t just buying every FA they want. |
Simply put...it's Andrew Friedman. Friedman with deep pockets is a very scary thing. He's Billy Beane on steroids. If Andrew Friedman knew basketball and was the Lakers GM, we'd be really happy right about now. |
or we would be OKC. |
Does Sam Presti get to work with deep pockets? Are you missing that element?....or are you being an annoying ass contrarian?
_________________
The butter's hard and the eggs are chillin' in the dark.
Kiss my Converse. |
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jonnybravo
Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 30704
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Hard_Butter wrote: | | pokoy wrote: | This isn’t “the Lakers” vs Klutch. This is Jeannie Buss and her underwhelming “brain trust” vs Klutch.
Jerry West is 1000x the Laker that any of that front office are, and they just took his season tickets away. Jeannie and her minions can all leave for all I care and let someone who can compete with the other billionaire owners take over. |
....or better yet, imagine this team being run by Pat Riley? He was the one guy to go tell Bron and his cohorts to f off. Pat was one of ours. Laker player, Lakers HC, and to this day one of the best executives. The counter is that Pat bolted as soon as Magic's HIV retirement and opted for greener pastures in NY. He left us. But to your point, if Jeanie (and to a lesser extent Jerry) really wanted to leave this franchise in good/familiar hands......West and/or Riley would've been choice. |
I love Pat but that ship has sailed. I don't know if he's sold any of it back but he had a 10% ownership of the team at one point. He's been an institution in Miami and has built his own little empire there. The whole team is his type of guys, his way. Spo is his guy that he groomed. "We're the Lakers" isn't going to be enough to sway him to come back to LA and into this cesspool. It's been over 30 years since he was a part of the Lakers.
_________________
KOBE |
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yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| RG73 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Put simply, this level of dysfunction, with reportedly Rob/maybe Jeanie firing back at Klutch/LBJ+AD, does this objectively make the Lakers a more appealing place for future agents or less?
I mean you help a team go from perennial lotto picks to the championship, and then you engage in this media war with the top two guys and their agency?
Be objective. Lakers are not looking good at all over here. LBJ is a portable entity and can take his talents elsewhere, we are stuck with the same owner(s) and likely GM. |
I doubt it matters. The Lakers have constantly been in media wars. We've had media wars with Wilt, Magic, Shaq, Kobe, Gasol, Odom, Jerry West, Phil, and Lebron. It's been a constant part of the franchise.
If that bothers a player, they wouldn't likely come here anyway. Many players will want to be in Los Angeles, some won't. Then it becomes a matter of what other players we are able to put around them. |
The Lakers very public dysfunction likely played a major role in the inability to recruit any major free agents after 2010 and prior to Lebron signing. So I would argue the very public display of organizational dysfunction was and will again be a major problem for the team.
After Lebron is gone the team is up against a Clippers team with vastly deeper pockets, a more professional front office, a new arena and all the same pluses of playing in Los Angeles. So in that case the dysfunction becomes a major recruiting handicap. If you're a star player and you have the option of Ballmer or Jeanie and you see that Jeanie that threw that man that made her franchise relevant again under the bus, one of the all time greats, do you honestly think that won't make a difference? Maybe not for guys just looking for a payday, but you're not going to recruit generational talent. And even if you luck into drafting such a player again, the same dysfunction may well drive said player away (and rest assured that Klutch will try to represent any star college player who might get drafted by the Lakers). So the Lakers are also building ill will with a major agent--which Rob should know is idiotic. Teams should not make enemies of agents, best in their generation players, or their fans. Jeanie is working on all of that. |
💯 |
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jonnybravo
Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 30704
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Hard_Butter wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | Hard_Butter wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | | cthroatgtr wrote: | In baseball the A's taught teams how to be smart. Eventually the Red Sox and Yankees learned from them and are better run now. The Lakers need to move forward not backward. That means using advanced analytics to help make decisions. Stop trying to be the old Lakers and instead be forward thinking. Invest in areas to improve team conditioning & health, analytics to better assess players, etc. Stop trying to build a team of superstars.
Most of all Jeanie needs to stop saying "My father would do it this way..." those days are long past.
Basically be smart like small market teams while having the advantage of being the Lakers and being in Los Angeles where you can outspend everyone else regarding non-player advantages. |
All I ask is for them to be run like the Dodgers are now. Really hope the now Lakers minority owner gets them soon.
Despite the endless pockets, people don’t realize how loaded the Dodgers are in terms of prospects. Every team in MLB wants their top end prospects. It isn’t just buying every FA they want. |
Simply put...it's Andrew Friedman. Friedman with deep pockets is a very scary thing. He's Billy Beane on steroids. If Andrew Friedman knew basketball and was the Lakers GM, we'd be really happy right about now. |
or we would be OKC. |
Does Sam Presti get to work with deep pockets? Are you missing that element?....or are you being an annoying ass contrarian? |
This. I remember back when Billy Beane and moneyball was still a new thing. Bill Plashke had the nerve to write an article belittle his accomplishments based on the fact that it's never led to a WS ring. Uh, thet fact that he's had 1/4 the payroll as other teams doesn't factor into it? Despite competing with two hands behind his back, he still managed to build teams that were regular division champs. What a mook. You put that type of analytical thinking and combine it with deep pockets and you have a perennial contender, much like our Boys in Blue.
_________________
KOBE |
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Halflife
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 16747
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| Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2022 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| jonnybravo wrote: | | Hard_Butter wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | Hard_Butter wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | | cthroatgtr wrote: | In baseball the A's taught teams how to be smart. Eventually the Red Sox and Yankees learned from them and are better run now. The Lakers need to move forward not backward. That means using advanced analytics to help make decisions. Stop trying to be the old Lakers and instead be forward thinking. Invest in areas to improve team conditioning & health, analytics to better assess players, etc. Stop trying to build a team of superstars.
Most of all Jeanie needs to stop saying "My father would do it this way..." those days are long past.
Basically be smart like small market teams while having the advantage of being the Lakers and being in Los Angeles where you can outspend everyone else regarding non-player advantages. |
All I ask is for them to be run like the Dodgers are now. Really hope the now Lakers minority owner gets them soon.
Despite the endless pockets, people don’t realize how loaded the Dodgers are in terms of prospects. Every team in MLB wants their top end prospects. It isn’t just buying every FA they want. |
Simply put...it's Andrew Friedman. Friedman with deep pockets is a very scary thing. He's Billy Beane on steroids. If Andrew Friedman knew basketball and was the Lakers GM, we'd be really happy right about now. |
or we would be OKC. |
Does Sam Presti get to work with deep pockets? Are you missing that element?....or are you being an annoying ass contrarian? |
This. I remember back when Billy Beane and moneyball was still a new thing. Bill Plashke had the nerve to write an article belittle his accomplishments based on the fact that it's never led to a WS ring. Uh, thet fact that he's had 1/4 the payroll as other teams doesn't factor into it? Despite competing with two hands behind his back, he still managed to build teams that were regular division champs. What a mook. You put that type of analytical thinking and combine it with deep pockets and you have a perennial contender, much like our Boys in Blue. |
Our late picks have been as good as anyone, which is where he will be picking. Every great player he has had netted 0. Talking about how great he is fine and dandy but with OKC he's only been a farm team. He can trade talent with the best of them but hasn't proven he can put pieces together to win it all.
Hes had guys under contract. Has stayed with coaches too long or not long enough.
Ainge who was crucified for having draft capital actually had talent on the floor.
lets not bring up being handcuffed, because all you have to do is look at what/who he has had and then look at where it got him. |
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