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JustaObserver
Star Player
Joined: 20 May 2017
Posts: 3178
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 Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2024 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | JustaObserver wrote: | | lakersfan32 wrote: | | svettarsalo wrote: | Everything he's done since last February is correct. It's been praised here all summer. And these praises were justified. He did everything he had to do. Pelinka is not responsible for Darvin Ham not being fired. This is a decision for the team owner to make.
Pelinka is a GM who deserves at least some credit in the eyes of the fans. He's perhaps the least guilty person in the current situation of the team. |
hi, pelinka's mom! |
He right though..Its on Jeanie...he cant do it without her ok. |
He hired Ham, that’s all on Pelinka. |
Dont matter..smh..do you think she didnt know he hired him? All she got to say is fire him ,..and HAM IS FIRED....STOP TRYING TO BAIL HER CRAP OUT. |
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JustaObserver
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Joined: 20 May 2017
Posts: 3178
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2024 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| Threatt_Level wrote: | | svettarsalo wrote: | | Reaves, on the other hand, cannot be traded to anyone other than a true all-star caliber player. His contributions to this team and his contract are very, very good. It's not possible to trade him. If Pelinka even thinks of such a thing, then he should be fired. |
Dejounte Murray was an all-star before he got paired alongside Trae and got asked to play out of position and to defer to Trae. Austin Reaves is, at the very best, a 6th man. When you can get a high quality starter for a 6th man, you do that trade every time. |
Why dont you get that AR is like Celtics Pritchard but he contributes and put to the bench can change the game...he on a great contract and Murray's Salary is more than AR which means you have to add more future assets to the deal..those future assets Murray is not worth. He was a all star in POPs Offense and Defense scheme..WE HAVE HAM..you think hamis anywhere on THE LEVEL OF POP? |
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Threatt_Level
Starting Rotation
Joined: 30 Jul 2014
Posts: 467
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2024 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| JustaObserver wrote: | | Why dont you get that AR is like Celtics Pritchard but he contributes and put to the bench can change the game... |
Because he's a great 6th man, but not a starter. He's getting hunted and exposed on defense. Teams are scheming to switch on to him. Last year he kind of took the league by surprise. This year, everyone is ready for him. Reaves is not starter material, and Murray is a starter.
| JustaObserver wrote: | | he on a great contract and Murray's Salary is more than AR which means you have to add more future assets to the deal.. |
No, you don't. Murray is making $18 million this year while Reaves + JHS combine for 15.7 million. That's more than enough to satisfy matching salaries. It's already reported that the Hawks would take those two plus a first rounder for Murray. That's nothing.
| JustaObserver wrote: | | He was a all star in POPs Offense and Defense scheme..WE HAVE HAM..you think hamis anywhere on THE LEVEL OF POP? |
Murray is a much better player than Reaves by pretty much every metric across the board and we know he won't get played off the court due to his defense like we know can (and DOES) happen with Reaves. You don't pass on getting better players because your the coach sucks. |
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laker4life
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Joined: 26 Nov 2001
Posts: 7324
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| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2024 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | JustaObserver wrote: | | lakersfan32 wrote: | | svettarsalo wrote: | Everything he's done since last February is correct. It's been praised here all summer. And these praises were justified. He did everything he had to do. Pelinka is not responsible for Darvin Ham not being fired. This is a decision for the team owner to make.
Pelinka is a GM who deserves at least some credit in the eyes of the fans. He's perhaps the least guilty person in the current situation of the team. |
hi, pelinka's mom! |
He right though..Its on Jeanie...he cant do it without her ok. |
He hired Ham, that’s all on Pelinka. |
Agreed. This is on Pelinka.
He did fine last year but over the last few years, he has been inconsistent.
His Westbrook trade was ridiculous.
Firing Vogel, I did not agree with that one.
Not hiring Lue, is on him.
Not picking Whitmore is looking bad. |
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kfkilla
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Joined: 31 Jul 2002
Posts: 4316
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| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2024 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| laker4life wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | JustaObserver wrote: | | lakersfan32 wrote: | | svettarsalo wrote: | Everything he's done since last February is correct. It's been praised here all summer. And these praises were justified. He did everything he had to do. Pelinka is not responsible for Darvin Ham not being fired. This is a decision for the team owner to make.
Pelinka is a GM who deserves at least some credit in the eyes of the fans. He's perhaps the least guilty person in the current situation of the team. |
hi, pelinka's mom! |
He right though..Its on Jeanie...he cant do it without her ok. |
He hired Ham, that’s all on Pelinka. |
Agreed. This is on Pelinka.
He did fine last year but over the last few years, he has been inconsistent.
His Westbrook trade was ridiculous.
Firing Vogel, I did not agree with that one.
Not hiring Lue, is on him.
Not picking Whitmore is looking bad. |
Agree but it’s not just Whitmore. JHS has no elite qualities. Dlo was not athletic when he came out but his vision and shooting were considered elite for a one and done. Hope I’m wrong about JHS but nothing he does looks above average to me. His game reminds me of George Lynch. |
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tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17880
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2024 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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Good deadline. Remember that Rob is the guy who made the first Westbrook trade.
No trade > bad trade. I actually trust Rob more when he's not pressed to make hail mary passes (see: the Rui trade) |
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TDRock
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Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 49285
Location: LA to the Bay
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Day
Star Player
Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 1742
Location: San Francisco, CA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2024 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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All very reasonable and encouraging. We don't have a gm who's gonna make a trade for the sake of a trade and not gonna get fleeced. |
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levon
Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Oct 2016
Posts: 10686
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2024 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | “You can’t buy a house that’s not for sale. … The right move wasn’t there.” |
Then don't make it so you need to buy the house to be successful? Every move sets up another move that may or may not be there, or is a recovery from a prior bad move. There is no overarching strategy here. |
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vasashi17+
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Joined: 13 Dec 2019
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2024 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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This narrative is 🧢, needs to die before it becomes a running theme in Lakerland and here’s why…
It’s true that we only can offer up a ‘29 FRP at the deadline, but how is that suddenly a waste or inefficient way of utilizing our future. We still got our 4 picks in alternating years (ie either ‘24or‘25, ‘26, ‘28, ‘30) & if we used our ‘29 now, you can still package either the ‘24/‘25 and the ‘31 during the summer along with whatever asset we traded for before today’s deadline. So instead of 3 FRPs, we can trade, but you need associated salary to get that done and trading for one at the deadline could have been parlayed for that possibility. So how tf is trading our ‘29 pick mortgaging our future? And for punting this season for a better swing this offseason, you not only wasting Bron’s ever shrinking twilight, but you just burned one of AD’s prime years as well.
I’ve seen Trae’s name kicked around and imho if you want to build around AD, you need capable defenders to make up the core…defense is what needs to be embraced with AD as the franchise player …imho DNo ain’t got it and at double the price tag, Trae certainly doesn’t have it. But that’s for another discussion…cause the price tag is what we need to really focus on. But first let’s get to certain factors that will impact our summer “swing”…
The projections for the Aprons actually shrunk from what was previously expected…and if it stays that way, we’re looking at
•179m for the 1st Apron
-if breached, favorable trade multipliers are dead & you can only trade for 100% incoming salary as what you send out; you trade 40m in aggregate salary and you’re allowed to bring 40m in & not a cent more
-so if a favorable trade multipliers are carried out, the 1st Apron effectively triggers the hardcap @ 179m…if we make a trade for 35-40m+ player, it has to be done without the favorable 125% trade multiplier…it has to be 100% salary sent out for whatever we bring in
•190m for the 2nd Apron
-if breached, trade aggregation is dead; you cannot stack player contracts together to get another player on similar salary; you can’t do a 3for1 even tho the inbound salary is the same amount as the salary traded out
-so if we use trade aggregation, the 2nd Apron effectively gets triggered and we’re hardcapped @ 190m
As for those 3 picks we can trade…
First, ‘24 draft is projected to be sh!t…so offering up that pick in trade is more like 0.5FRP cause not only is it in a bad draft, but it will be after the trade where it officially exchanges hands. Normally teams like to operate with pick in hand before draft workouts aka way before the draft even takes place. I expect NO to select our ‘25 FRP as a result, so the ‘24 will be available to trade via wink wink deal but officially after the draft has been decided
Second, our ‘31 FRP can’t even officially be offered up till free agency starts (ie after our players decide on their player options). So by the time we can offer up to 3 FRPs (more like 2.5FRPs tbh), then will we have enough salary to aggregate to go get a 35m+ player? If Bron and DLo opt out, they can’t be traded unless they agree to a S&t…and when’s the last time this FO has ever successfully worked up a S&t? They didn’t do it with Schro/AC to go get Buddy after the Russ trade…they didn’t do it with Vando or DLo last offseason neither. Y'all really eager to find out how it’ll go when they possibly do it for the first time this summer? Will MaxC be one of the cap casualties as a result? Isn’t that considered a “future” piece?
And lastly, those dreaded new trade rules kick in for all projected Apron teams this summer. If Bron is to return and you pair him up with AD and a reup with DLo and then aggregating Rui, Reaves, Vando, whoever for that 3rd max type…will all that be possible to accomplish while we skirt the Aprons?
1) Bron 51.5m
2) AD 43.2m
3) Trae 43m (via Rui’s 17m, Reaves’s 13m, Gabe’s(or Vando’s) 11m + JHS’s 3.9m aggregated to salary match @ 100% due to 1st Apron hardcap
4) DLo reup 20mish? (Who really knows what dude & Mintz value themselves at, but if walks, so effectively does that ‘27 FRP aka part of our future goes with him)
5) Vando or Gabe 11m (whoever survives the Trae’d purge)
———-
For just those 5 players we already looking at a projected 169m…meaning we got 9 players to still sign with only 10m in practical spending money before hitting the projected 179m 1st Apron hardcap or 21m before hitting the 2nd Apron hardcap. Doing the math, we’d be unable to stay under the 1st Apron hardcap with vet min’s 2m a player…so that means we looking at 9 vet mins to round out the 5 player core above.
So what happens with RFA MaxC’s new deal? Do we cut him to gain wiggle from that 2nd Apron?
So I’m sorry to deflate those that are living in this optimistic 3FRP bubble swing …but if yall really aware of the cap implications, then standing pat at the deadline to go all-in this summer is 🧢
The numbers just don’t add up and you would need participation from not only other teams but players who have full control of their agency. Yall expecting Bron & DLo to opt out and reup on a team friendly deal? Is a Bron, AD, Trae (or Spida), DLo (or Reaves/MaxC) core really a legit title contender?
I’m thinking more of a swing & a miss this summer….kinda like this trade deadline. Negotiating the NTC out of DLo’s 1+1 and for what? A lot a good that did…we just about flushed yet another season of Bron/AD 🤦🏻♂️
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crackadon
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Joined: 11 Aug 2013
Posts: 1023
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2024 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| vasashi stays wrighting novels. Lol |
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vasashi17+
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Joined: 13 Dec 2019
Posts: 5620
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2024 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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^Yeah, my bad…forgot to include the tl;dr for those already familiar with the new CBA
Trae (or any 3rd max level player “swing”) added to a Bron/AD core is 🧢
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crackadon
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Joined: 11 Aug 2013
Posts: 1023
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2024 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Vasashi, your CBA knowledge is top tier, but your unwillingness to edit yourself as a writer is hindering your point. Also, the way you try to implement modern slang into your posts is super cringey. Learn how to take criticism and apply it to your own benefit. |
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crazylakerfan001
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Joined: 14 Feb 2011
Posts: 1008
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2024 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Still livin off of last years trade deadline |
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vasashi17+
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Joined: 13 Dec 2019
Posts: 5620
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2024 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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🤣 Thanks for the unsolicited advice…Some folks love discussing other members on a Lakers board…talk about cringe. Care to comment on the actual bball/cap material in my novel?
Anyways, here’s some advice for you…Stay off that crack cause
[slang]crack iz wack[/slang]
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Last edited by vasashi17+ on Thu Feb 08, 2024 10:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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crackadon
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Joined: 11 Aug 2013
Posts: 1023
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2024 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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It's not about ego or anything. I've never gone at you like that.
Keep doing your thing. It's all love. |
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Lakeshow23_
Starting Rotation
Joined: 02 May 2021
Posts: 667
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2024 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Keep up the good work vasashi. Someone's gotta hold Rob's feet to the fire. |
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strong9
Star Player
Joined: 22 Mar 2003
Posts: 3284
Location: so many places
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2024 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| What does a blue hat mean? I keep thinking the Dodgers. |
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TDRock
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Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 49285
Location: LA to the Bay
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2024 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| strong9 wrote: | | What does a blue hat mean? I keep thinking the Dodgers. |
Cap
Aka a lie/lying
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ThePageDude
Star Player
Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 2593
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 5:58 am Post subject: |
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Really interesting read!
And I, for one, am more interested in the reasoning and less so in the tl; dr;  |
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defense
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 39575
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| TDRock wrote: | | strong9 wrote: | | What does a blue hat mean? I keep thinking the Dodgers. |
Cap
Aka a lie/lying |
Also known as Abdul Jabbar  |
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governator
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25092
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | 🤣 Thanks for the unsolicited advice…Some folks love discussing other members on a Lakers board…talk about cringe. Care to comment on the actual bball/cap material in my novel?
Anyways, here’s some advice for you…Stay off that crack cause
[slang]crack iz wack[/slang] |
So if not Trae, who’d fit the number? Kyrie? Lauri?
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“The main goal for the Lakers is to win a championship. All I care about, all we care about, is to raise another banner in the rafters.“ |
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vasashi17+
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Joined: 13 Dec 2019
Posts: 5620
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:10 am Post subject: |
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I initially didn’t even come at you like that @crack. I only did, after the “advice” and even tho I didn’t think it needed discussion, I’ll note it towards my future novel entries 😉All love on my end too bro…I just wanted to inform the masses that not only do we gotta overcome certain CBA obstacles this offseason, but nearly everything has to go right for us to be even in that position. Granted, if Bron & DLo both opt out and dip, we would have roughly 30m in cap space (and as a result a whole lot more wiggle) to operate under the Aprons & take our “swing” with. But a duo of AD/Trae(or Spida) still doesn’t elicit much confidence in me towards title contention moving forward.
In terms of creating a new duo with AD, I really hope we can finally give him a 2way center or a 2way perimeter doberman….either way, dude needs to be a dog and have a defensive pulse! And if it’s a tear down & rebuild, commit to it for F sakes. Pick a lane already and go all-in on it…When we went after Bron in 2018, we shoulda gone all in from coach to making a 3star team. I believe we kept straddling the line and so finally when that 3rd became a real possibility even tho it wasn’t a complete fit/complement, they still wanted to see how it looked cause they struck out on that “swing” for the previous 3 years (‘18-‘20). Trae/Spida this summer has Westbrook vibes imho…it just won’t work with AD (and Bron if still here).
@LS23_ & @TPD, appreciate y’all and you already know that flame is lit. I just want him to do better, cause it just makes our Lakers better…and if he can’t there, Jeanie needs to find someone who will ASAP
https://images.app.goo.gl/BzmMhFovNm6PaDHf6
@gov: any 35-40m+ salaried player (aka max salary level) will be hard to roster next to Bron (via opt in) & AD next season. Even if we purged our entire roster to field 3max players to build from, you’re looking at roughly 140m for those 3 players alone on a projected 141m salary cap next year. So how do you build from there if the Aprons get triggered to hardcap us. If we use a favorable trade multiplier (125% + 250k) to get that 3rd max level player, the 1st Apron hard cap is triggered and we can’t go over 179m in team payroll even if we somehow connected on such a “swing” this summer. The only way to even remotely make it work is if Bron opts out and takes less of an annual and that 3rd max level guy is closer to 35m instead of 40m (ie Spida). Then the rest has to trickle down from there with DLo taking less on a reup & RFA MaxC taking much less than the MLE amount to remain here…and once our own FAs are taken care of, will we be able to use the full ntpMLE to remain under the Apron or not?
Ky just like Trae is on a big annual number, so it will be tough as balls to have enough room under the jockstrap that is the cap apron. Meanwhile Lauri is on a 4 year deal that’s about to expire..you already know Danny bout to extend dude to continue playing the blues in a Jazz uni. Meanwhile we’ll be left with blue balls hoping that our summer ain’t another swing & a miss…
So many elements gotta work in our favor for the “swing” to legitimately have a shot at connecting. I got my doubts which is why I consider it 🧢
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Last edited by vasashi17+ on Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
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governator
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Posts: 25092
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:14 am Post subject: |
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Never thought about LeBron opting out and resigning for less but maybe if we burn our ‘24 SRP on Bronny. Like $100m/3yr then we can safely grab a max and have a decent role players? Math too advance; thx Vas
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vasashi17+
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Joined: 13 Dec 2019
Posts: 5620
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:48 am Post subject: |
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^@Gov: gotta consider the “over-38” rule on any potential Bron re-up. So any new contract cannot be longer than 3 years. In your scenario he’d be on a 33m annual which I think is highly dubious unless he seeks counsel from Dirk.
If he does give up a 50m+ annual, I believe it would be in a scenario where he either opts into his 51.5m option and has a deescalating annual as part of an extension adding another 2 years (see Myles Turner extension) OR if he opts out and takes a 40m yr 1 deal in a new 3yr/130m deal. Any scenario where he gives up 10m+ from his player option next season doesn’t seem realistic. And let’s say he does gift our FO with a 40m annual next season, we still looking at 125-130m for just 3 players on a projected 141m salary cap…again it gives us about 10-15m in additional wiggle, making it somewhat possible to now unlock the full ntpMLE (~13m), but as you can see, it’s still gonna be a helluva nut to crack (no sub intended @crack 😬)
1) Bron 40m reup
2) AD 43.2m
3) Spida 35.4m (by waiving his entire 15% trade kicker)
4) DLo reup 20m
5) Vando 11m (survivor of Spida’s web where Rui, Reaves, JHS and MaxL are the minimum salaries likely caught up in the trade using 100% trade multiplier)
6) Gabe 11m (also ducks Spida’s web)
7) tpMLE 5.2m
8) MaxC 10m (also ducks Spida’s web & on a modest number by not getting a max RFA deal like Reaves did)
9-14) 6 vet mins ~12m @ 2m per that could include all or none of Hayes, Wood, Cam, MaxL & Bronny with the 2nd round exception)
~ 187m in team salary; we aggregated salary in trade & used the smaller taxpayer MLE, which both triggered the 190m 2nd Apron as our hardcap. So as you can see, even with favorable numbers & being forced to use no trade multiplier to avoid triggering the 1st Apron, we still are pressed up against that hardcap; and if you want to use the full ntpMLE (~13m), then either MaxC gets it all, or he becomes a cap casualty if we target another with it.
Never say never…but I wouldn’t hold out much hope either
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