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Itsowheeze
Starting Rotation
Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 732
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 Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | | What if it was a "roster issue"? Pelinka didn't get a big for Ham and DLo was also a failed experiment. Jeanie needs to reconsider her bestie GM as well. |
Fire Pelinka immediately. It doesn't make sense to fire a coach and allow the same gm to pick a new coach |
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JustaObserver
Star Player
Joined: 20 May 2017
Posts: 3330
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Itsowheeze wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | What if it was a "roster issue"? Pelinka didn't get a big for Ham and DLo was also a failed experiment. Jeanie needs to reconsider her bestie GM as well. |
Fire Pelinka immediately. It doesn't make sense to fire a coach and allow the same gm to pick a new coach |
Cant agree with you on this. LBJ and AD wanted WB. Rob gave it to hm. Then everybody wanted WB gone. Rob got trades made and those players got the team to WCF. Rob over the summer got HAyses, Woods,Cam,gabe and prince and everyone jumped for joy..well some werent like me(check the FA forum if you dont believe me)..but Media loved it also.....Ham had full control of who to pick for his staff. HAm then done idiot moves and rotations...pe4ople got mad and looked for EDeadline trades but there wernt any to make this team better without getting crushed in the trade. So cant blame Rob for this stuff....Ham was also approved by AD and LBJ sooo. Also you didnt get Lue as Jennie wanted to conserve money so that also not Rob fault...sooo. |
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Hanging from Rafters
Star Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2018
Posts: 4611
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersfan32 wrote: | | 3 roster spots tied up next season to useless reddish, wood, and hayes. the genius of rob. |
Infuriating, and to make matters worse, one of the somewhat useful additions…TPrince… signed for 1 year using an exception that can only be used every other year. SMGDH. Can’t make this up, the useless ones signed for 2yrs with vet min which typically is a 1yr contract (who signs vet mins to 2yrs?), and the one needed to return, Rob used the BAE on for 1yr, comically bad.
Rob should be the next to go. Get Myers-GM, Lue if he becomes available or Budenholzer as coach or it’s gonna get worse this summer. I think LBJ and Dlo walks otherwise.
Unfortunately, expect Jeanie to keep Rob and the starting unit next season to be:
AD
Rui
Vando
AR
Vincent
MaxC/Dlo/LBJ/TPrince all walk and nobody will trade with Rob.
_________________
“When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.” |
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hype
Star Player
Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 4389
Location: Lake Nacimiento
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | lakersfan32 wrote: | | 3 roster spots tied up next season to useless reddish, wood, and hayes. the genius of rob. |
Infuriating, and to make matters worse, one of the somewhat useful additions…TPrince… signed for 1 year using an exception that can only be used every other year. SMGDH. Can’t make this up, the useless ones signed for 2yrs with vet min which typically is a 1yr contract (who signs vet mins to 2yrs?), and the one needed to return, Rob used the BAE on for 1yr, comically bad.
Rob should be the next to go. Get Myers-GM, Lue if he becomes available or Budenholzer as coach or it’s gonna get worse this summer. I think LBJ and Dlo walks otherwise.
Unfortunately, expect Jeanie to keep Rob and the starting unit next season to be:
AD
Rui
Vando
AR
Vincent
MaxC/Dlo/LBJ/TPrince all walk and nobody will trade with Rob. |
Call me crazy but i'd absolutely love if that really happens (We could easily resign either of MaxC/Prince if we wanted to as well with the new cap space).. It's time to start the new Chapter before AD is over the hill as well and i'd rather DLo not be part of it personally. We'd open a massive chunk of the salary cap back up as well which would help tremendously as we could take back a lot of Salary in trades which could potentially make us a player for some good, solid trades depending on who's available of course.
If Bron was down to take less i'd love to have him back as well but realistically I not only do not see a chance Bron leaves at this point but our FO has "just give him the max and be loyal" written on all over them. If he leaves or we get him at a discount price to bring in extra help i'd consider that a big win. |
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miggz23
Star Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2018
Posts: 7060
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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Bob Myers on standby right now waiting for that call...  |
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Hanging from Rafters
Star Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2018
Posts: 4611
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| hype wrote: | | Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | lakersfan32 wrote: | | 3 roster spots tied up next season to useless reddish, wood, and hayes. the genius of rob. |
Infuriating, and to make matters worse, one of the somewhat useful additions…TPrince… signed for 1 year using an exception that can only be used every other year. SMGDH. Can’t make this up, the useless ones signed for 2yrs with vet min which typically is a 1yr contract (who signs vet mins to 2yrs?), and the one needed to return, Rob used the BAE on for 1yr, comically bad.
Rob should be the next to go. Get Myers-GM, Lue if he becomes available or Budenholzer as coach or it’s gonna get worse this summer. I think LBJ and Dlo walks otherwise.
Unfortunately, expect Jeanie to keep Rob and the starting unit next season to be:
AD
Rui
Vando
AR
Vincent
MaxC/Dlo/LBJ/TPrince all walk and nobody will trade with Rob. |
Call me crazy but i'd absolutely love if that really happens (We could easily resign either of MaxC/Prince if we wanted to as well with the new cap space).. It's time to start the new Chapter before AD is over the hill as well and i'd rather DLo not be part of it personally. We'd open a massive chunk of the salary cap back up as well which would help tremendously as we could take back a lot of Salary in trades which could potentially make us a player for some good, solid trades depending on who's available of course.
If Bron was down to take less i'd love to have him back as well but realistically I not only do not see a chance Bron leaves at this point but our FO has "just give him the max and be loyal" written on all over them. If he leaves or we get him at a discount price to bring in extra help i'd consider that a big win. |
Yep, you asked for it so I’ll oblige. You’re crazy. It doesn’t even open up 1 max slot so a “ton” of cap space is define differently by me than you. Also, what about winning? That part is being underrated. The starters of AD/Rui/Vando/AR/Vincent is lottery without the ability to add a max salary. The Lakers have that already…plus LeBron…and just need role playing back ups to compete. A rebounding back up C with backcourt defense competes for a ship yet crazy wants to send us to the lottery.
_________________
“When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.” |
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Halflife
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 17184
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MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26828
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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Our roster this year was very good.
Our Coach utilizing them to the fullest of their abilities was not.
People that try to jump on the "bad roster" bandwagon when Ham was starting Prince and Reddish over DLO and AR while the roster was healthy need not try to contribute anything further.
_________________
How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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Halflife
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 17184
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | Our roster this year was very good.
Our Coach utilizing them to the fullest of their abilities was not.
People that try to jump on the "bad roster" bandwagon when Ham was starting Prince and Reddish over DLO and AR while the roster was healthy need not try to contribute anything further. |
It was a bad roster because
Dlo
Wood
Hayes
Reddish
prince
We’re guys so bad that not a single other team in the league wanted them. Teams with superior coaches.
The only reason we did anything was because AD decided to play.
We literally had a starting guard on our team score 9 pts and 0 pts in a playoff series.
_________________
Kobe.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Clw9scopegx/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= |
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Hanging from Rafters
Star Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2018
Posts: 4611
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Our roster this year was very good.
Our Coach utilizing them to the fullest of their abilities was not.
People that try to jump on the "bad roster" bandwagon when Ham was starting Prince and Reddish over DLO and AR while the roster was healthy need not try to contribute anything further. |
It was a bad roster because
Dlo
Wood
Hayes
Reddish
prince
We’re guys so bad that not a single other team in the league wanted them. Teams with superior coaches.
The only reason we did anything was because AD decided to play.
We literally had a starting guard on our team score 9 pts and 0 pts in a playoff series. |
George was 6-18 and 2-10 today, Harden was 0-6 from 3, it happens.
Dlo is one of the best 3rd options in the entire NBA. Bam in Miami with Hero/Butler; Porzingis behind Tatum/Brown; Beal behind Durant/Booker; McCollum behind Zion/BIngram are about the only ones that have a higher scoring 3rd. Don’t just disagree, look it up. Dlo is the 5th highest scoring 3rd option in the league plus he’s top 20 in apg shooting 41+% from 3pt.
The roster issue is about not having a rebounding big body C and another perimeter defender. The issue at the 5 has persisted since the ship team got dismantled so it should have been addressed by now. Vincent was a gamble but when still injured at the deadline a backcourt defender + a rebounding C should have been brought in. It’s coaching sure, but just as much roster construction.
I fantasize about Rob being replaced by Myers and Budenholzer signed! 
_________________
“When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.” |
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MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26828
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Our roster this year was very good.
Our Coach utilizing them to the fullest of their abilities was not.
People that try to jump on the "bad roster" bandwagon when Ham was starting Prince and Reddish over DLO and AR while the roster was healthy need not try to contribute anything further. |
It was a bad roster because
|
Miss with all of that.
This starting lineup
D'Angelo Russell
Austin Reaves
Jarred Vanderbilt
LeBron James
Anthony Davis
made the WCF last year and was in a very close series with the eventual Champions.
They went and added Christian Wood, whom was a starting center in the league that averaged 15-17 points. They added a solid reliable bench player and three point shooter in Taurean Prince. They added Gabe Vincent who'd just went off in the Playoffs and seemed to find himself.
That's GOOD... that's actually VERY good.
You give ANY COMPETENT COACH this roster and they're a 50+ win team. In fact if Darvin Ham didn't bench DLO and Reaves for Reddish and Prince we WOULD have been a 50+ win team this season. The reason we weren't was because of Darvin Ham, his rotations and punting the season from Mid-December to Mid-January which everyone knew was stupid and wrong. Not just here but in the organization as well. If the Lakers win 50-54 Games last season the conversation is completely different. And it wasn't because the players "didn't step up".
There was tons of analytics telling Ham what the right thing to do was, there was players and the people in the front office telling Ham what was right and he refused it. We PREACHED continuity ALL SUMMER LONG and then Darvin Ham decided to actively AVOID playing the lineup that got us to the WCF all season when he had AMPLE opportunity to do so!
So miss with all the BS about the "players weren't good enough...just.."
The Coach as bad as he was would have had a 50+ win team this season had he not punted an entire month of the season with his stupidity. He had a 50+ win team and because of him they were a 47 win team.
Give Spo this roster, what do you think happens?
Give Rick Carlisle this roster, what do you think happens?
Give Nick Nurse this roster, give Michael Malone this roster, give Mike Brown this roster, heck give Steve Kerr this roster and they will ALL do better than Ham strictly because he's the only one that would do something as stupid as make Prince a starter or start him and Reddish over Reaves and DLO. There is no other Coach in this league that would do something so stupid. Just him.
SO no, Ham isn't being scapegoated, he's being held accountable for blowing this season with unnecessary garbage, something he hasn't done to himself all year. To sit there and pretend that "the players just aren't good enough" when we were a 47 win team that should have been a 50+ win team is beyond silly.
And yeah we didn't have Vando a lot of the season and we STILL could have been a +50 win team. Heck if we just had a .500 record during that stretch of Darvin Ham stupidity? The Lakers were 12-5 in their last 17 games and Darvin Ham switched up player assignment, he switched up roles, he switched up minutes and reduced them for our guards for no reason. Then he benched them.
12-5 in 17 games prior to his unnecessary changes.
And after those changes? The next 14 games we go 4-10. Not because we "aren't good enough", but Darvin Ham making unnecessary decisions he had no business making.
If during that 4-10 stretch the Lakers just went 7-7? The Lakers record at the end of the season is 50-32 and the conversation is very different. But the Coach made a decision no other intelligent Coach would make as no Coach saw Taurean Prince as a starter since his 2nd year in the league, and no coach IN THE LEAGUE would start Cam Reddish INTENTIONALLY... Especially while keeping Max Christie who can fill the SAME ROLE while being a far better three point shooter on the bench, despite what analytics is telling him to do.
So don't play that "He's being scapegoated, it's mainly on the players." stuff. Everybody knows how big of a problem Ham was and there's no sense defending him.
_________________
How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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Hanging from Rafters
Star Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2018
Posts: 4611
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Our roster this year was very good.
Our Coach utilizing them to the fullest of their abilities was not.
People that try to jump on the "bad roster" bandwagon when Ham was starting Prince and Reddish over DLO and AR while the roster was healthy need not try to contribute anything further. |
It was a bad roster because
|
Miss with all of that.
This starting lineup
D'Angelo Russell
Austin Reaves
Jarred Vanderbilt
LeBron James
Anthony Davis
made the WCF last year and was in a very close series with the eventual Champions.
They went and added Christian Wood, whom was a starting center in the league that averaged 15-17 points. They added a solid reliable bench player and three point shooter in Taurean Prince. They added Gabe Vincent who'd just went off in the Playoffs and seemed to find himself.
That's GOOD... that's actually VERY good.
You give ANY COMPETENT COACH this roster and they're a 50+ win team. In fact if Darvin Ham didn't bench DLO and Reaves for Reddish and Prince we WOULD have been a 50+ win team this season. The reason we weren't was because of Darvin Ham, his rotations and punting the season from Mid-December to Mid-January which everyone knew was stupid and wrong. Not just here but in the organization as well. If the Lakers win 50-54 Games last season the conversation is completely different. And it wasn't because the players "didn't step up".
There was tons of analytics telling Ham what the right thing to do was, there was players and the people in the front office telling Ham what was right and he refused it. We PREACHED continuity ALL SUMMER LONG and then Darvin Ham decided to actively AVOID playing the lineup that got us to the WCF all season when he had AMPLE opportunity to do so!
So miss with all the BS about the "players weren't good enough...just.."
The Coach as bad as he was would have had a 50+ win team this season had he not punted an entire month of the season with his stupidity. He had a 50+ win team and because of him they were a 47 win team.
Give Spo this roster, what do you think happens?
Give Rick Carlisle this roster, what do you think happens?
Give Nick Nurse this roster, give Michael Malone this roster, give Mike Brown this roster, heck give Steve Kerr this roster and they will ALL do better than Ham strictly because he's the only one that would do something as stupid as make Prince a starter or start him and Reddish over Reaves and DLO. There is no other Coach in this league that would do something so stupid. Just him.
SO no, Ham isn't being scapegoated, he's being held accountable for blowing this season with unnecessary garbage, something he hasn't done to himself all year. To sit there and pretend that "the players just aren't good enough" when we were a 47 win team that should have been a 50+ win team is beyond silly.
And yeah we didn't have Vando a lot of the season and we STILL could have been a +50 win team. Heck if we just had a .500 record during that stretch of Darvin Ham stupidity? The Lakers were 12-5 in their last 17 games and Darvin Ham switched up player assignment, he switched up roles, he switched up minutes and reduced them for our guards for no reason. Then he benched them.
12-5 in 17 games prior to his unnecessary changes.
And after those changes? The next 14 games we go 4-10. Not because we "aren't good enough", but Darvin Ham making unnecessary decisions he had no business making.
If during that 4-10 stretch the Lakers just went 7-7? The Lakers record at the end of the season is 50-32 and the conversation is very different. But the Coach made a decision no other intelligent Coach would make as no Coach saw Taurean Prince as a starter since his 2nd year in the league, and no coach IN THE LEAGUE would start Cam Reddish INTENTIONALLY... Especially while keeping Max Christie who can fill the SAME ROLE while being a far better three point shooter on the bench, despite what analytics is telling him to do.
So don't play that "He's being scapegoated, it's mainly on the players." stuff. Everybody knows how big of a problem Ham was and there's no sense defending him. |
It’s a good roster, and thus shouldn't be dismantled. The starters in Feb/Mar/Apr won at a 56 win rate good enough to have been #1 in the west.
But without a big body C and another guard that can play D without being a liability on offense it’s not good enough. I do recognize the roster is good, that’s why I want to add to it instead of replacing it. Well, I would like to replace Vincent with Caruso tho!!
_________________
“When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.”
Last edited by Hanging from Rafters on Fri May 03, 2024 10:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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JustaObserver
Star Player
Joined: 20 May 2017
Posts: 3330
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Our roster this year was very good.
Our Coach utilizing them to the fullest of their abilities was not.
People that try to jump on the "bad roster" bandwagon when Ham was starting Prince and Reddish over DLO and AR while the roster was healthy need not try to contribute anything further. |
It was a bad roster because
Dlo
Wood
Hayes
Reddish
prince
We’re guys so bad that not a single other team in the league wanted them. Teams with superior coaches.
The only reason we did anything was because AD decided to play.
We literally had a starting guard on our team score 9 pts and 0 pts in a playoff series. |
You wasnt talking crazy over the summer...so why you crying now? |
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MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26828
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Our roster this year was very good.
Our Coach utilizing them to the fullest of their abilities was not.
People that try to jump on the "bad roster" bandwagon when Ham was starting Prince and Reddish over DLO and AR while the roster was healthy need not try to contribute anything further. |
It was a bad roster because
|
Miss with all of that.
This starting lineup
D'Angelo Russell
Austin Reaves
Jarred Vanderbilt
LeBron James
Anthony Davis
made the WCF last year and was in a very close series with the eventual Champions.
They went and added Christian Wood, whom was a starting center in the league that averaged 15-17 points. They added a solid reliable bench player and three point shooter in Taurean Prince. They added Gabe Vincent who'd just went off in the Playoffs and seemed to find himself.
That's GOOD... that's actually VERY good.
You give ANY COMPETENT COACH this roster and they're a 50+ win team. In fact if Darvin Ham didn't bench DLO and Reaves for Reddish and Prince we WOULD have been a 50+ win team this season. The reason we weren't was because of Darvin Ham, his rotations and punting the season from Mid-December to Mid-January which everyone knew was stupid and wrong. Not just here but in the organization as well. If the Lakers win 50-54 Games last season the conversation is completely different. And it wasn't because the players "didn't step up".
There was tons of analytics telling Ham what the right thing to do was, there was players and the people in the front office telling Ham what was right and he refused it. We PREACHED continuity ALL SUMMER LONG and then Darvin Ham decided to actively AVOID playing the lineup that got us to the WCF all season when he had AMPLE opportunity to do so!
So miss with all the BS about the "players weren't good enough...just.."
The Coach as bad as he was would have had a 50+ win team this season had he not punted an entire month of the season with his stupidity. He had a 50+ win team and because of him they were a 47 win team.
Give Spo this roster, what do you think happens?
Give Rick Carlisle this roster, what do you think happens?
Give Nick Nurse this roster, give Michael Malone this roster, give Mike Brown this roster, heck give Steve Kerr this roster and they will ALL do better than Ham strictly because he's the only one that would do something as stupid as make Prince a starter or start him and Reddish over Reaves and DLO. There is no other Coach in this league that would do something so stupid. Just him.
SO no, Ham isn't being scapegoated, he's being held accountable for blowing this season with unnecessary garbage, something he hasn't done to himself all year. To sit there and pretend that "the players just aren't good enough" when we were a 47 win team that should have been a 50+ win team is beyond silly.
And yeah we didn't have Vando a lot of the season and we STILL could have been a +50 win team. Heck if we just had a .500 record during that stretch of Darvin Ham stupidity? The Lakers were 12-5 in their last 17 games and Darvin Ham switched up player assignment, he switched up roles, he switched up minutes and reduced them for our guards for no reason. Then he benched them.
12-5 in 17 games prior to his unnecessary changes.
And after those changes? The next 14 games we go 4-10. Not because we "aren't good enough", but Darvin Ham making unnecessary decisions he had no business making.
If during that 4-10 stretch the Lakers just went 7-7? The Lakers record at the end of the season is 50-32 and the conversation is very different. But the Coach made a decision no other intelligent Coach would make as no Coach saw Taurean Prince as a starter since his 2nd year in the league, and no coach IN THE LEAGUE would start Cam Reddish INTENTIONALLY... Especially while keeping Max Christie who can fill the SAME ROLE while being a far better three point shooter on the bench, despite what analytics is telling him to do.
So don't play that "He's being scapegoated, it's mainly on the players." stuff. Everybody knows how big of a problem Ham was and there's no sense defending him. |
It’s a good roster, and thus shouldn't be dismantled. The starters in Feb/Mar/Apr won at a 56 win rate good enough to have been #1 in the west.
But without a big body C and another guard that can play D without being a liability on offense it’s not good enough. I do recognize the roster is good, that’s why I want to add to it instead of replacing it. |
And this is why I prioritize getting a center in the draft.
_________________
How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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Hanging from Rafters
Star Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2018
Posts: 4611
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Our roster this year was very good.
Our Coach utilizing them to the fullest of their abilities was not.
People that try to jump on the "bad roster" bandwagon when Ham was starting Prince and Reddish over DLO and AR while the roster was healthy need not try to contribute anything further. |
It was a bad roster because
|
Miss with all of that.
This starting lineup
D'Angelo Russell
Austin Reaves
Jarred Vanderbilt
LeBron James
Anthony Davis
made the WCF last year and was in a very close series with the eventual Champions.
They went and added Christian Wood, whom was a starting center in the league that averaged 15-17 points. They added a solid reliable bench player and three point shooter in Taurean Prince. They added Gabe Vincent who'd just went off in the Playoffs and seemed to find himself.
That's GOOD... that's actually VERY good.
You give ANY COMPETENT COACH this roster and they're a 50+ win team. In fact if Darvin Ham didn't bench DLO and Reaves for Reddish and Prince we WOULD have been a 50+ win team this season. The reason we weren't was because of Darvin Ham, his rotations and punting the season from Mid-December to Mid-January which everyone knew was stupid and wrong. Not just here but in the organization as well. If the Lakers win 50-54 Games last season the conversation is completely different. And it wasn't because the players "didn't step up".
There was tons of analytics telling Ham what the right thing to do was, there was players and the people in the front office telling Ham what was right and he refused it. We PREACHED continuity ALL SUMMER LONG and then Darvin Ham decided to actively AVOID playing the lineup that got us to the WCF all season when he had AMPLE opportunity to do so!
So miss with all the BS about the "players weren't good enough...just.."
The Coach as bad as he was would have had a 50+ win team this season had he not punted an entire month of the season with his stupidity. He had a 50+ win team and because of him they were a 47 win team.
Give Spo this roster, what do you think happens?
Give Rick Carlisle this roster, what do you think happens?
Give Nick Nurse this roster, give Michael Malone this roster, give Mike Brown this roster, heck give Steve Kerr this roster and they will ALL do better than Ham strictly because he's the only one that would do something as stupid as make Prince a starter or start him and Reddish over Reaves and DLO. There is no other Coach in this league that would do something so stupid. Just him.
SO no, Ham isn't being scapegoated, he's being held accountable for blowing this season with unnecessary garbage, something he hasn't done to himself all year. To sit there and pretend that "the players just aren't good enough" when we were a 47 win team that should have been a 50+ win team is beyond silly.
And yeah we didn't have Vando a lot of the season and we STILL could have been a +50 win team. Heck if we just had a .500 record during that stretch of Darvin Ham stupidity? The Lakers were 12-5 in their last 17 games and Darvin Ham switched up player assignment, he switched up roles, he switched up minutes and reduced them for our guards for no reason. Then he benched them.
12-5 in 17 games prior to his unnecessary changes.
And after those changes? The next 14 games we go 4-10. Not because we "aren't good enough", but Darvin Ham making unnecessary decisions he had no business making.
If during that 4-10 stretch the Lakers just went 7-7? The Lakers record at the end of the season is 50-32 and the conversation is very different. But the Coach made a decision no other intelligent Coach would make as no Coach saw Taurean Prince as a starter since his 2nd year in the league, and no coach IN THE LEAGUE would start Cam Reddish INTENTIONALLY... Especially while keeping Max Christie who can fill the SAME ROLE while being a far better three point shooter on the bench, despite what analytics is telling him to do.
So don't play that "He's being scapegoated, it's mainly on the players." stuff. Everybody knows how big of a problem Ham was and there's no sense defending him. |
It’s a good roster, and thus shouldn't be dismantled. The starters in Feb/Mar/Apr won at a 56 win rate good enough to have been #1 in the west.
But without a big body C and another guard that can play D without being a liability on offense it’s not good enough. I do recognize the roster is good, that’s why I want to add to it instead of replacing it. |
And this is why I prioritize getting a center in the draft. |
A C in the draft would have been better than JHS. Need productionnow tho with limited window, not a draftee.
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MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26828
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Our roster this year was very good.
Our Coach utilizing them to the fullest of their abilities was not.
People that try to jump on the "bad roster" bandwagon when Ham was starting Prince and Reddish over DLO and AR while the roster was healthy need not try to contribute anything further. |
It was a bad roster because
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Miss with all of that.
This starting lineup
D'Angelo Russell
Austin Reaves
Jarred Vanderbilt
LeBron James
Anthony Davis
made the WCF last year and was in a very close series with the eventual Champions.
They went and added Christian Wood, whom was a starting center in the league that averaged 15-17 points. They added a solid reliable bench player and three point shooter in Taurean Prince. They added Gabe Vincent who'd just went off in the Playoffs and seemed to find himself.
That's GOOD... that's actually VERY good.
You give ANY COMPETENT COACH this roster and they're a 50+ win team. In fact if Darvin Ham didn't bench DLO and Reaves for Reddish and Prince we WOULD have been a 50+ win team this season. The reason we weren't was because of Darvin Ham, his rotations and punting the season from Mid-December to Mid-January which everyone knew was stupid and wrong. Not just here but in the organization as well. If the Lakers win 50-54 Games last season the conversation is completely different. And it wasn't because the players "didn't step up".
There was tons of analytics telling Ham what the right thing to do was, there was players and the people in the front office telling Ham what was right and he refused it. We PREACHED continuity ALL SUMMER LONG and then Darvin Ham decided to actively AVOID playing the lineup that got us to the WCF all season when he had AMPLE opportunity to do so!
So miss with all the BS about the "players weren't good enough...just.."
The Coach as bad as he was would have had a 50+ win team this season had he not punted an entire month of the season with his stupidity. He had a 50+ win team and because of him they were a 47 win team.
Give Spo this roster, what do you think happens?
Give Rick Carlisle this roster, what do you think happens?
Give Nick Nurse this roster, give Michael Malone this roster, give Mike Brown this roster, heck give Steve Kerr this roster and they will ALL do better than Ham strictly because he's the only one that would do something as stupid as make Prince a starter or start him and Reddish over Reaves and DLO. There is no other Coach in this league that would do something so stupid. Just him.
SO no, Ham isn't being scapegoated, he's being held accountable for blowing this season with unnecessary garbage, something he hasn't done to himself all year. To sit there and pretend that "the players just aren't good enough" when we were a 47 win team that should have been a 50+ win team is beyond silly.
And yeah we didn't have Vando a lot of the season and we STILL could have been a +50 win team. Heck if we just had a .500 record during that stretch of Darvin Ham stupidity? The Lakers were 12-5 in their last 17 games and Darvin Ham switched up player assignment, he switched up roles, he switched up minutes and reduced them for our guards for no reason. Then he benched them.
12-5 in 17 games prior to his unnecessary changes.
And after those changes? The next 14 games we go 4-10. Not because we "aren't good enough", but Darvin Ham making unnecessary decisions he had no business making.
If during that 4-10 stretch the Lakers just went 7-7? The Lakers record at the end of the season is 50-32 and the conversation is very different. But the Coach made a decision no other intelligent Coach would make as no Coach saw Taurean Prince as a starter since his 2nd year in the league, and no coach IN THE LEAGUE would start Cam Reddish INTENTIONALLY... Especially while keeping Max Christie who can fill the SAME ROLE while being a far better three point shooter on the bench, despite what analytics is telling him to do.
So don't play that "He's being scapegoated, it's mainly on the players." stuff. Everybody knows how big of a problem Ham was and there's no sense defending him. |
It’s a good roster, and thus shouldn't be dismantled. The starters in Feb/Mar/Apr won at a 56 win rate good enough to have been #1 in the west.
But without a big body C and another guard that can play D without being a liability on offense it’s not good enough. I do recognize the roster is good, that’s why I want to add to it instead of replacing it. |
And this is why I prioritize getting a center in the draft. |
A C in the draft would have been better than JHS. Need production now tho with limited window, not a draftee. |
multi-year college players are usually more ready to contribute right away. This is one of the many reasons I'd want Edey.
_________________
How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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Halflife
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 17184
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| Posted: Sat May 04, 2024 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| JustaObserver wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Our roster this year was very good.
Our Coach utilizing them to the fullest of their abilities was not.
People that try to jump on the "bad roster" bandwagon when Ham was starting Prince and Reddish over DLO and AR while the roster was healthy need not try to contribute anything further. |
It was a bad roster because
Dlo
Wood
Hayes
Reddish
prince
We’re guys so bad that not a single other team in the league wanted them. Teams with superior coaches.
The only reason we did anything was because AD decided to play.
We literally had a starting guard on our team score 9 pts and 0 pts in a playoff series. |
You wasnt talking crazy over the summer...so why you crying now? |
who is crying? I roll with my team. I don't need anyone on the roster to make them relevant to me.
The reality is since 2019 we have a roster that is never held accountable. 3 coaches since. I am grateful for the bubble chip, but to think we are close or on a path to being a contender is off. Sure we can sign a star this summer that may be him. But now we start over.
Bron and AD, coming off a season where they were pristinely healthy are going to be coming into next season right off of USAB. Regardless of who we sign unless its Paolo or someone like that we need bron/brow connection to give us 65+ games. But most of all we need to rid ourselves of Dlo, Hayes, reddish, Spencer and fill those spots with guys who could actually make another roster.
I said we could make a run this year if we played:
GSW
a hurt OKC team
A hurt Wolves team
not play denver
not play luka.
As of now, if we keep same roster, this doesn't change, assuming GSW/suns don't improve
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Kobe.
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tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17979
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 12:49 am Post subject: |
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The biggest question mark I have right now is whether what we saw in Jan/Feb with Vanderbilt was a fluke or not (or if it matters at all with a new coach coming in). That offense looked NICE even with AD/Vanderbilt on the court. If you can run a good offense with Vanderbilt playing next to AD, then that solves a big issue I have (which is, a strong defensive/ rebounding 3 who is playable offensively next to AD). But is that real? Does Vando still get coached off the floor in the playoffs?
Beyond that, what I'd like is a real playable bruiser 5. And a real 3&D defensive 2/3. It'd be nice if Christie takes a leap and Vincent reclaims his internal form to really shore up the guard rotation |
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JosephFerano
Starting Rotation
Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 801
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 1:56 am Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | The biggest question mark I have right now is whether what we saw in Jan/Feb with Vanderbilt was a fluke or not (or if it matters at all with a new coach coming in). That offense looked NICE even with AD/Vanderbilt on the court. If you can run a good offense with Vanderbilt playing next to AD, then that solves a big issue I have (which is, a strong defensive/ rebounding 3 who is playable offensively next to AD). But is that real? Does Vando still get coached off the floor in the playoffs?
Beyond that, what I'd like is a real playable bruiser 5. And a real 3&D defensive 2/3. It'd be nice if Christie takes a leap and Vincent reclaims his internal form to really shore up the guard rotation |
I don't think it's a fluke. Look at Aaron Gordon. He can't "stretch the floor" in the way you normally think about. But his cutting, attacking, and offensive rebounding abilities make him such a threat that you can't just ignore him like you normally would a non-shooter. He puts just as much pressure on his weakside defender as a 3pt shooter and he makes you pay if your rotations aren't perfect.
They both shot a similar percentage from both 2 and 3 this year, and while Gordon is bigger, Vando is quicker and can guard 1 through 4. |
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wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58424
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 2:31 am Post subject: |
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Vanderbilt and Gordon are significant levels apart on the non-shooting roles. Both may be sub 30 percent shooters.
The big difference is the other aspects. Off the ball movement. On the dribble shot creating. Even playmaking.
I feel the best comp for any non shooting/scoring threat is Rudy Gobert or Alec Caruso (although Caruso has evolved into a respectable shooter since he left LA). You see that Gobert has value, immense value in the right situation and circumstance. But he's a DPOTY impact guy. Caruso also when with us during the championship era was not a shooting threat, but was great at off the ball impact and making energy plays on offense. On defense you could just stick Caruso on to the opposing team's primary ballhandler and you know Caruso is not going to leave him alone.
Vanderbilt has defensive impact, but not at that level. He's not shown to be particularly elite at any 1 aspect according to the defensive metrics I've seen.
IE will he contain Edwards/Durant etc types?
IE will he elite rim protect?
IE will he defend elite 5s so AD doesn't?
Even with AD/Vandy, our defense seemed exposed last season. It was certainly better than with AD/Rui, but not at the impact say you saw in 19-20 with Dwight/AD or McGee/AD, or even when you would go smaller with AD/Bron + Caruso/KCP/Green at the perimeter.
I dug the defense Vandy/AD lineups showed last season (22-23) but this current one, I felt things kind of played out to expose why Vanderbilt has moved around in the league. Even so, by the Warriors series, teams had figured out how to play off Vanderbilt last season. It carried forward into this year.
To me, he's a role guy off the bench who can be used in situations. Not a core starter. Look back at Caruso in 19-20. Wasn't a starter. Off the bench. At best, I would say Vanderbilt is that guy for you. Not a core starter like Gordon is for DEN. |
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JosephFerano
Starting Rotation
Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 801
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 3:19 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | Vanderbilt and Gordon are significant levels apart on the non-shooting roles. Both may be sub 30 percent shooters.
... |
Would you mind sharing these statistics you unearthed? When I watched Vando when he came back, he didn't look the same, but the last couple of games before his injury I think he was starting to round into form. I think the consensus at the time was that Vando's play style depends on having as close to full physical ability for his impact to be noticeable. A hobbled Vando is indeed pretty ineffective. I wouldn't be surprised if his numbers suffered a bit at first, but then rebounded.
He's supposed to be an elite defender both onball and offball, as well as a great offensive rebounder, with good off ball cuts. Gordon isn't that great either, he's just in a system that really fits him, so he looks amazing. The fact that teams move him around a lot might be because he's not as good as advertised, but could also be teams just wanting more shooting, which seems to be quite popular these days.
But I might be wrong, so I'd love to look at those stats you mentioned. |
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lakersfever714
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016
Posts: 12072
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 3:55 am Post subject: |
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| Itsowheeze wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | What if it was a "roster issue"? Pelinka didn't get a big for Ham and DLo was also a failed experiment. Jeanie needs to reconsider her bestie GM as well. |
Fire Pelinka immediately. It doesn't make sense to fire a coach and allow the same gm to pick a new coach |
Pelinka and Jeanie are like conjoined twins. Can't separate them. Either both stay or both go so as long as Jeanie remains as owner, Pelinka will be in charge.
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Playoffs is good enough. - Jeanie Buss 2024 |
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tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17979
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| JosephFerano wrote: | | tox wrote: | The biggest question mark I have right now is whether what we saw in Jan/Feb with Vanderbilt was a fluke or not (or if it matters at all with a new coach coming in). That offense looked NICE even with AD/Vanderbilt on the court. If you can run a good offense with Vanderbilt playing next to AD, then that solves a big issue I have (which is, a strong defensive/ rebounding 3 who is playable offensively next to AD). But is that real? Does Vando still get coached off the floor in the playoffs?
Beyond that, what I'd like is a real playable bruiser 5. And a real 3&D defensive 2/3. It'd be nice if Christie takes a leap and Vincent reclaims his internal form to really shore up the guard rotation |
I don't think it's a fluke. Look at Aaron Gordon. He can't "stretch the floor" in the way you normally think about. But his cutting, attacking, and offensive rebounding abilities make him such a threat that you can't just ignore him like you normally would a non-shooter. He puts just as much pressure on his weakside defender as a 3pt shooter and he makes you pay if your rotations aren't perfect.
They both shot a similar percentage from both 2 and 3 this year, and while Gordon is bigger, Vando is quicker and can guard 1 through 4. |
There's are two huge differences that makes this not a good apples-to-apples comparison.
1) Gordon is an immense finisher. Vanderbilt is closer to Kwame
2) Jokic spaces the ball from 3; AD doesn't.
Even so, teams constantly take advantage of Gordon being a non-spacer. |
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tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17979
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 11:43 am Post subject: |
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@Wolf, I think all-in-one impact metrics are the wrong way to look at it. I'd prefer looking at it in terms of 5 man lineups. Vanderbilt is a not great at navigating ball screens, especially off ball screens. He is great in isolation. But he provides you rebounding and activity. I think he has a lot of value on this roster because that's what the Lakers are missing.
| Quote: | Even so, by the Warriors series, teams had figured out how to play off Vanderbilt last season. It carried forward into this year.
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Sure but that's why it's important how different he looked offensively before getting injured. Is that replicable? If it was, does it even matter with a new head coach? |
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Day
Star Player
Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 1787
Location: San Francisco, CA
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 11:45 am Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Our roster this year was very good.
Our Coach utilizing them to the fullest of their abilities was not.
People that try to jump on the "bad roster" bandwagon when Ham was starting Prince and Reddish over DLO and AR while the roster was healthy need not try to contribute anything further. |
It was a bad roster because
Dlo
Wood
Hayes
Reddish
prince
We’re guys so bad that not a single other team in the league wanted them. Teams with superior coaches.
The only reason we did anything was because AD decided to play.
We literally had a starting guard on our team score 9 pts and 0 pts in a playoff series. |
I'm convinced you're related to Darvin. You just post stuff that you have to know is just complete garbage.
Look at every player you listed and look at their MPG last year, most were starters and all played contributing minutes to their teams. They would play minutes on whatever team they go to next, Darvin not knowing how to use a roster doesn't mean the roster is bad. |
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