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activeverb
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 Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | oaktown_dimond wrote: | but LBJ was kinda surrounded by garbage during his last few cavs finals though?
and was the lakers chip a "super team"? not really.
| activeverb wrote: | | GOODRICH25 wrote: |
i think the 8 straight finals argument is less impressive if you consider that:
-he was on loaded teams
-he jumped ship at the "right time"
-the competition wasnt great in the east
like was there a year where you thought Cavs/Heat shouldnt make the finals before the season/playoffs started? |
You can try to add all the caveats and astericks you want, but making 8 straight finals in the modern NBA is one of the greatest accomplishments in NBA history. |
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No one questions brons greatness and where he stands in history. we didn't get that guy. |
I find your compulsion to repeat your point of view 10 times a day boring myself, but if that's how you entertain yourself, that's your business. |
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Halflife
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| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | oaktown_dimond wrote: | but LBJ was kinda surrounded by garbage during his last few cavs finals though?
and was the lakers chip a "super team"? not really.
| activeverb wrote: | | GOODRICH25 wrote: |
i think the 8 straight finals argument is less impressive if you consider that:
-he was on loaded teams
-he jumped ship at the "right time"
-the competition wasnt great in the east
like was there a year where you thought Cavs/Heat shouldnt make the finals before the season/playoffs started? |
You can try to add all the caveats and astericks you want, but making 8 straight finals in the modern NBA is one of the greatest accomplishments in NBA history. |
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No one questions brons greatness and where he stands in history. we didn't get that guy. |
I find your compulsion to repeat your point of view 10 times a day boring myself, but if that's how you entertain yourself, that's your business. |
You deleted and reposted the same thing? The post you are referring to is accurate. Bron is an all-time great. Not debatable. he is not that guy for us. Where is the issue? 10times a day?
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george w kush
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| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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Lebron is an all time great, but it’s clear father time has caught up to him. He’s completely lost his ability to take guys off the dribble and instead has turned into a guy who either takes step back jumpers or waits for cutters. It’s also annoying how the offense just stops the offense when he has the ball and squares up whoever is guarding him.
He’s not the reason for the loss but it’s clear we need a reliable third option when either AD or Bron is out. WB is just too inconsistent. Would love to see a the team somehow get Bogdonovich. |
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lakez34
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| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| The ball-stopping kills me. I get our team doesn't have very many pieces when AD is out, or when Russ isn't in the game (physically/mentally) and the rest of our team is mediocre at best, but there is still no reason for the ball-stopping. Coach and he have to figure out how to break that. I know he did the same last year with Vogel, so perhaps its him having to come to terms with his age, and realizing that he can't just hold the ball, and then bust a move, take someone off the dribble and get to the hoop like he used to. |
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22
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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Not worth the money for his on the court production IMO.
If the wheels keep falling off I’m hoping he gets frustrated and demands a trade when eligible. VERY slim chance of that happening though lol |
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PinoyLBJFan
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Does anyone still think LBJ is holding back the Laker's young guys? |
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defense
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 5:12 am Post subject: |
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| PinoyLBJFan wrote: | | Does anyone still think LBJ is holding back the Laker's young guys? |
His contract is holding us back |
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lakersfever714
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:20 am Post subject: |
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| defense wrote: | | PinoyLBJFan wrote: | | Does anyone still think LBJ is holding back the Laker's young guys? |
His contract is holding us back |
I think you mean Westbrick's contract. Lebron is raking in cash for the Lakers. Think back to 2016 and 2017 before Lebron came. Before Lebron arrived, how many national TV games did the Lakers get? Did you enjoy watching the Lakers being irrelevant years after years? We would go back to that once Lebron retires. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:30 am Post subject: |
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Lebron is still a quality player. He's not as good as he was last year, but we also switched things around to get AD more involved which negates a little what Lebron can do. His BPM on O is second on the team at 4.1 and only he and AD have this. On defense, again he has a decent BPM at 0.5. He's still a major impact player, just not a top 5 player at the moment, more like a top 20 all-star level guy. It's as if last year's AD/Bron switched places a bit. AD's become the MVP level guy, and Bron the all-star more injury riddled second best player. That's fine with me, together they are still giving you a ton of value and production.
Look lets be real, if the team had a backup like Kuzma, who was once around, to give the team 20 points a game and some wing size/D anytime Bron sat out, we'd be less upset about Lebron's steady decline as we'd have guys that could come in and give us some offense (and D) when Lebron was out. We needed to build a team loaded with athleticism and depth, and instead went all in on Westbrook. 2 years ago Lebron and AD were injury riddled and the team managed to win 50% of their games. That's a team with some depth.
Even though Westbrook has been much more valuable as a bench player, to a point where I dare say he's even a positive player for us much of the time, his BPM's are not good. -0.7 on DBPM and -0.5 on OBPM. He's basically a wash, or a so-so impact guy. At 47M. you're getting a 6th man level guy, who can't really shoot or defend to be a strong closer around AD/Lebron.
We need a lot more wing depth, and more talent. We've spent 47M on a player that gives you MLE/15M 6th man production. We've spent 45M-50M on Lebron who gives you about 41 quality games a year (in RS, either sits out rest or coasts). That's not how you win in this league, in the RS. Last year, it was the same issues, only AD was the player who was injury prone/all-star level instead of Lebron. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:37 am Post subject: |
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| I mean aggregrated stats are not be all, but 25.8 ppg, 9.1 rpg, 6.4 apg. BPM of 4.6 (Second to AD's 8.5). He's not a MVP/top 5 player, but he's an all-star level player/production guy in year 20 and age 38. The main issue is his load management. We're sitting him out a lot. Games played 17 Games missed 7. Our roster lacks the depth to absorb the 41 games in the RS that Lebron either coasts/or sits out of. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:43 am Post subject: |
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Just for reference - Kobe's last 2 years with the Lakers.
22.3 ppg 5.7 apg 5.5 rpg played 35/82 games. OBPM of 2.0 and DBPM of -1.7
17.6 ppg 3.7 apg 2.8 rpg played 66/82 games. OBPM of 0.9 and DPM of -2.4
Don't get me wrong, Kobe was a Lakers legend and Lebron (the Laker version) doesn't sniff his jockstraps even. It's not even close as a Laker, Kobe toasts him. The comparison is to show what a washed down player looks like.
Lebron is not a MVP regular season guy, anymore. Probably never wins another ring as the team's best player. But, he's still producing and playing like an all-star. I think the issue with our team is our lack of depth, not Lebron's age. We knew what we signed up for. We should have kept and valued our depth. We didn't. This is on the FO, not Lebron. |
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defense
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | I mean aggregrated stats are not be all, but 25.8 ppg, 9.1 rpg, 6.4 apg. BPM of 4.6 (Second to AD's 8.5). He's not a MVP/top 5 player, but he's an all-star level player/production guy in year 20 and age 38. The main issue is his load management. We're sitting him out a lot. Games played 17 Games missed 7. Our roster lacks the depth to absorb the 41 games in the RS that Lebron either coasts/or sits out of. |
Missing 7 games due to age is a huge issue when your salary is what he earns. The BPM stats are unreliable and don't always tell whether a player is actually helping his team or not. Lebron at 30 million and Westbrook at 20...awesome. At their current salaries, I don't see how one can say this is not an issue for the team.
Their contributions or lack there of does not warrant what they are being paid. How do you have depth when you have 3 players making almost 130 million? 2 of the three highest paid are not contributing enough. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | | defense wrote: | | PinoyLBJFan wrote: | | Does anyone still think LBJ is holding back the Laker's young guys? |
His contract is holding us back |
I think you mean Westbrick's contract. Lebron is raking in cash for the Lakers. Think back to 2016 and 2017 before Lebron came. Before Lebron arrived, how many national TV games did the Lakers get? Did you enjoy watching the Lakers being irrelevant years after years? We would go back to that once Lebron retires. |
Before Lebron came the Lakers got the same share of national TV money as they do now. They got the same Time Warner money as they do now. They sold 95+% of seats at Staples. Financially the organization wasn’t hurting before Lebron, especially since they were luxury tax payees instead of payers. At $45-50 mil a season Lebron’s salary does impact what moves the team can make.
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governator
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | defense wrote: | | PinoyLBJFan wrote: | | Does anyone still think LBJ is holding back the Laker's young guys? |
His contract is holding us back |
I think you mean Westbrick's contract. Lebron is raking in cash for the Lakers. Think back to 2016 and 2017 before Lebron came. Before Lebron arrived, how many national TV games did the Lakers get? Did you enjoy watching the Lakers being irrelevant years after years? We would go back to that once Lebron retires. |
Before Lebron came the Lakers got the same share of national TV money as they do now. They got the same Time Warner money as they do now. They sold 95+% of seats at Staples. Financially the organization wasn’t hurting before Lebron, especially since they were luxury tax payees instead of payers. At $45-50 mil a season Lebron’s salary does impact what moves the team can make. |
the Cleveland Cavaliers lost money on an operating basis. They declined by about 4% in value to $1.28 billion when they lost LeBron James to the La Lakers.
Not sure how much Lakers gain, a 4% of $4.6B would be about $160-200m and they also do get 50% profits from LeBron's jersey sales (#1 in the league) |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| defense wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | I mean aggregrated stats are not be all, but 25.8 ppg, 9.1 rpg, 6.4 apg. BPM of 4.6 (Second to AD's 8.5). He's not a MVP/top 5 player, but he's an all-star level player/production guy in year 20 and age 38. The main issue is his load management. We're sitting him out a lot. Games played 17 Games missed 7. Our roster lacks the depth to absorb the 41 games in the RS that Lebron either coasts/or sits out of. |
Missing 7 games due to age is a huge issue when your salary is what he earns. The BPM stats are unreliable and don't always tell whether a player is actually helping his team or not. Lebron at 30 million and Westbrook at 20...awesome. At their current salaries, I don't see how one can say this is not an issue for the team.
Their contributions or lack there of does not warrant what they are being paid. How do you have depth when you have 3 players making almost 130 million? 2 of the three highest paid are not contributing enough. |
For better or worse, this is the "Lakers way," keeping aging big name stars. The difference b/w LBJ and Russ is that LBJ still keeps the Lakers at the least "relevant," and for Jeanie, seems that is one of the many pillars that she stands on top of. LBJ's deal will be an albatross for sure as he ages, but I don't think Jeanie really cares on that end.
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defense
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | defense wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | I mean aggregrated stats are not be all, but 25.8 ppg, 9.1 rpg, 6.4 apg. BPM of 4.6 (Second to AD's 8.5). He's not a MVP/top 5 player, but he's an all-star level player/production guy in year 20 and age 38. The main issue is his load management. We're sitting him out a lot. Games played 17 Games missed 7. Our roster lacks the depth to absorb the 41 games in the RS that Lebron either coasts/or sits out of. |
Missing 7 games due to age is a huge issue when your salary is what he earns. The BPM stats are unreliable and don't always tell whether a player is actually helping his team or not. Lebron at 30 million and Westbrook at 20...awesome. At their current salaries, I don't see how one can say this is not an issue for the team.
Their contributions or lack there of does not warrant what they are being paid. How do you have depth when you have 3 players making almost 130 million? 2 of the three highest paid are not contributing enough. |
For better or worse, this is the "Lakers way," keeping aging big name stars. The difference b/w LBJ and Russ is that LBJ still keeps the Lakers at the least "relevant," and for Jeanie, seems that is one of the many pillars that she stands on top of. LBJ's deal will be an albatross for sure as he ages, but I don't think Jeanie really cares on that end. |
I hear you, but I will tell what keeps us even more relevant... winning. Seems someone needs to remind the front office of that. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | defense wrote: | | PinoyLBJFan wrote: | | Does anyone still think LBJ is holding back the Laker's young guys? |
His contract is holding us back |
I think you mean Westbrick's contract. Lebron is raking in cash for the Lakers. Think back to 2016 and 2017 before Lebron came. Before Lebron arrived, how many national TV games did the Lakers get? Did you enjoy watching the Lakers being irrelevant years after years? We would go back to that once Lebron retires. |
Before Lebron came the Lakers got the same share of national TV money as they do now. They got the same Time Warner money as they do now. They sold 95+% of seats at Staples. Financially the organization wasn’t hurting before Lebron, especially since they were luxury tax payees instead of payers. At $45-50 mil a season Lebron’s salary does impact what moves the team can make. |
the Cleveland Cavaliers lost money on an operating basis. They declined by about 4% in value to $1.28 billion when they lost LeBron James to the La Lakers.
Not sure how much Lakers gain, a 4% of $4.6B would be about $160-200m and they also do get 50% profits from LeBron's jersey sales (#1 in the league) |
You have to take franchise values with a grain of salt. They are nothing more than estimates (the most common one is from Forbes). You don't really know how much a franchise is worth until it goes up for sale and see what someone will pay it. In reality, if the Busses ever do sell the Lakers (which seems unlikely to me), I can't imagine how you would ever realistically determine how much Lebron factored into what they got.
I suspect Lebron does benefit the Lakers financially, from his name value and his contribution to our last ring. Putting a specific dollar amount on that value is iffy. |
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Halflife
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:38 am Post subject: |
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everyone said bron didnt need to be in LA to continue his off the court dealings. He certainly thought otherwise and you can see how much being on the Lakers helped him. He was never going to leave the team. We are stuck.
Im just glad this is russ last year because I cant wait to see how quiet everyone is about brons 50m for 2 more years. As overpaid as russ is, Bron is equally if not more.
_________________
Kobe.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Clw9scopegx/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= |
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LakerFan1987
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | everyone said bron didnt need to be in LA to continue his off the court dealings. He certainly thought otherwise and you can see how much being on the Lakers helped him. He was never going to leave the team. We are stuck.
Im just glad this is russ last year because I cant wait to see how quiet everyone is about brons 50m for 2 more years. As overpaid as russ is, Bron is equally if not more. |
26/9/6 in year 20 ... it's easier if you just say you hate Lebron |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | defense wrote: | | PinoyLBJFan wrote: | | Does anyone still think LBJ is holding back the Laker's young guys? |
His contract is holding us back |
I think you mean Westbrick's contract. Lebron is raking in cash for the Lakers. Think back to 2016 and 2017 before Lebron came. Before Lebron arrived, how many national TV games did the Lakers get? Did you enjoy watching the Lakers being irrelevant years after years? We would go back to that once Lebron retires. |
Before Lebron came the Lakers got the same share of national TV money as they do now. They got the same Time Warner money as they do now. They sold 95+% of seats at Staples. Financially the organization wasn’t hurting before Lebron, especially since they were luxury tax payees instead of payers. At $45-50 mil a season Lebron’s salary does impact what moves the team can make. |
the Cleveland Cavaliers lost money on an operating basis. They declined by about 4% in value to $1.28 billion when they lost LeBron James to the La Lakers.
Not sure how much Lakers gain, a 4% of $4.6B would be about $160-200m and they also do get 50% profits from LeBron's jersey sales (#1 in the league) |
Comparing the value of the Cavs to the Lakers is apples and oranges
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Halflife
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| LakerFan1987 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | everyone said bron didnt need to be in LA to continue his off the court dealings. He certainly thought otherwise and you can see how much being on the Lakers helped him. He was never going to leave the team. We are stuck.
Im just glad this is russ last year because I cant wait to see how quiet everyone is about brons 50m for 2 more years. As overpaid as russ is, Bron is equally if not more. |
26/9/6 in year 20 ... it's easier if you just say you hate Lebron |
ahh. The stan. bron is an all time great. But if you are only pointing at numbers it means you are attached to the player and not the team.
the championship in the bubble was great. reality is outside of a 4month break he has done nothing for us.
we as a fan base have always pointed to guys putting up big numbers on bad teams and found ways to clown on them. If we are honest. bron is now one of those guys. now add to that that he is broken down.
_________________
Kobe.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Clw9scopegx/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | LakerFan1987 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | everyone said bron didnt need to be in LA to continue his off the court dealings. He certainly thought otherwise and you can see how much being on the Lakers helped him. He was never going to leave the team. We are stuck.
Im just glad this is russ last year because I cant wait to see how quiet everyone is about brons 50m for 2 more years. As overpaid as russ is, Bron is equally if not more. |
26/9/6 in year 20 ... it's easier if you just say you hate Lebron |
ahh. The stan. bron is an all time great. But if you are only pointing at numbers it means you are attached to the player and not the team.
the championship in the bubble was great. reality is outside of a 4month break he has done nothing for us.
we as a fan base have always pointed to guys putting up big numbers on bad teams and found ways to clown on them. If we are honest. bron is now one of those guys. now add to that that he is broken down. |
Half your life on LG is spent on LBJ. What is the other half spent on? 
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BILBJH
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:08 am Post subject: |
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If you consider he's third in FGA this season... then his scoring isn't as impressive.
If you give Kuzma or Klay that many shots, they would average close to the same and no one is considering them to be setting the NBA on fire.
Is he doing great for his age? Absolutely.
Can we do some damage this season if Davis continues his hot run after the flu?
Also sure.
But anyone who watches can see the decline. He's still a good player but it's only going to get worse and we have two more years of this unless he develops a conscience and retires. |
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Halflife
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:09 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | LakerFan1987 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | everyone said bron didnt need to be in LA to continue his off the court dealings. He certainly thought otherwise and you can see how much being on the Lakers helped him. He was never going to leave the team. We are stuck.
Im just glad this is russ last year because I cant wait to see how quiet everyone is about brons 50m for 2 more years. As overpaid as russ is, Bron is equally if not more. |
26/9/6 in year 20 ... it's easier if you just say you hate Lebron |
ahh. The stan. bron is an all time great. But if you are only pointing at numbers it means you are attached to the player and not the team.
the championship in the bubble was great. reality is outside of a 4month break he has done nothing for us.
we as a fan base have always pointed to guys putting up big numbers on bad teams and found ways to clown on them. If we are honest. bron is now one of those guys. now add to that that he is broken down. |
Half your life on LG is spent on LBJ. What is the other half spent on? |
I am in a bron thread. wheres the problem.
So I'm clear
Dont talk about his salary he's clearly not worth
Dont talk about our failure as a team outside of bubble
Dont talk about how broken down he is
_________________
Kobe.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Clw9scopegx/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= |
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LakerFan1987
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Joined: 30 Oct 2022
Posts: 1536
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | LakerFan1987 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | everyone said bron didnt need to be in LA to continue his off the court dealings. He certainly thought otherwise and you can see how much being on the Lakers helped him. He was never going to leave the team. We are stuck.
Im just glad this is russ last year because I cant wait to see how quiet everyone is about brons 50m for 2 more years. As overpaid as russ is, Bron is equally if not more. |
26/9/6 in year 20 ... it's easier if you just say you hate Lebron |
ahh. The stan. bron is an all time great. But if you are only pointing at numbers it means you are attached to the player and not the team.
the championship in the bubble was great. reality is outside of a 4month break he has done nothing for us.
we as a fan base have always pointed to guys putting up big numbers on bad teams and found ways to clown on them. If we are honest. bron is now one of those guys. now add to that that he is broken down. |
Half your life on LG is spent on LBJ. What is the other half spent on? |
That's pretty funny
I have no concerns with LeBron still producing in the final 2 yrs of his contract. This isn't even close to a Russ scenario. |
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