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activeverb
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 Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| ahaider wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | ahaider wrote: | | I get the feeling if we trade Kuzma that we’ll watch him blossom on another team a la Lonzo, Randle & BI. |
It's possible that Lonzo, BI and the other young guys would have developed here -- the problem is, as always, we didn't have time to wait.
The Lakers are perpetually in "let's get a superstar today and win it tomorrow" mode.
Lonzo, Randle, and BI went to teams that pretty much accepted that they would be lottery/non-contending teams for a while. That doesn't fly in Los Angeles.
I don't get worked up by it. No team has had more success than the Lakers over the past few decades, and it's not clear to me that the alternative strategy of keeping and developing more draftees would have brought more success.
As far as Kuzma: Our goal isn't to help him maximize his potential. It's to help him maximize the benefits he can bring to the Lakers immediately. |
Active - Do you see the same regression in his play from his first year on the Lakers?
I’m not disagreeing with your point that it’s not our responsibility to maximize his potential. My issue is that there’s no clear direction of what how we’ll leverage his present benefits. We spent the year trying to figure out how to play him and I don’t think I walked away with a single lineup of position that places him or others in a position to succeed while he’s on the floor.
I’m not confident that our superstar now mentality will build the same success as in the early 2000s. To build a contender with a shelf life of longer than 2 years - there has to be some young player development where the ROI is 2-3x their present day salary. Ayton, Luka, Mitchell are all underpaid relative to their value. If we’re only optimizing for the now then I think you set yourself up for high short term peaks with long valleys in between. We have a championship in this decade but man 2010-2020 was rough until Lebron came. |
I'm not sure if he's regressed; it may simply be that he hasn't improved.
He came into the league older than most players, and he came onto a bad team that let him shoot at will.
As we added better players, his role was reduced. I think if he does to a bad team where he can shoot at will he can score a lot, but will that team be any good?
I doubt our superstar mentality will have the same success in as the 2000s. However, I doubtful any strategy will. I don't think a strategy of drafting and developing young players is inherently better or quicker. It's not guaranteed that Luka and Mitchell's teams will even get the past the first round while they are still on their cheap, rookie contracts. Ayton only got to the playoffs when his team traded for a 36-year-old superstar. If Paul leaves, that success may be a one-and-done.
We have Lakers fans who still think of Showtime and the threepeat days as the norm, and they are upset when the Lakers don't win 3 wins in a decade. I believe those fans are in for a rude awakening.
"Short peaks and long valleys" is really the norm in the NBA. And it may become more common for us. I question whether there is an easy formula to avoid that. |
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Lakerz113
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Joined: 15 Mar 2015
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| Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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Guy has no identity. Is he a three point shooter? Can he drive ? Does he have handles? Is he a good passer? He shows flashes of everything, which is why he was intriguing, but he just doesn’t have enough consistency in any area to trust him.
His handles have been a problem for a while, he changes his shooting motion like the wind, and he makes dumb basketball decisions. |
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Luminous8
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| Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Lakerz113 wrote: | | He just hasn’t improved on anything except being a defensive liability. He’s not a spot up shooter, he can’t create his own, and he’s not a great passer. |
Defense and rebounding, big improvements.
But aside from that is who he is.
Sometimes can be scorer other times not. Not a dependable realiable core player. I see him as a bench guy. If we can get a trade for him where we can get a 3nD player that gives you 8-10 points a game but is very reliable at making 3s I make that move without thinking.
We are a championship level team with a healthy AD, Bron and a lot of 3nD guys around them. I don’t know what we are with last years group. Changes, please. |
You finally changing your tune? This isn’t the same way you thought about him last offseason iirc? Do you think his defense has improved to the point of above average or even league average? I know obviously he found more rebounding desire, but the defense really seemed to still be somewhat fleeting this year. Still not the level of consistency you would hope to see. His advanced numbers tell the same. On a team so good defensively, no excuse for him to still be a net negative. Offensively too. |
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TheBlackMamba
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| Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakerz113 wrote: | Guy has no identity. Is he a three point shooter? Can he drive ? Does he have handles? Is he a good passer? He shows flashes of everything, which is why he was intriguing, but he just doesn’t have enough consistency in any area to trust him.
His handles have been a problem for a while, he changes his shooting motion like the wind, and he makes dumb basketball decisions. |
This. He kind of settled down into that defensive-minded role player you can give tougher perimeter assignments to without getting completely burned, but there's just no consistency even on that end. He still tries to do too much, which is probably who he is at this point, but honestly he would be a lot more palatable if he just stuck to that 3-and-D mindset, put the ball on the floor as few times as possible, which would limit the terrible decision-making. Think less, just shoot if you're open, pass if you're not, then move without the ball to get open.
I do think one day, if/when the outside shooting finally comes together (it's actually trending up) and he finally accepts he is what he is, he'll carve out a more solid role for himself in the league. He can certainly be a Marcus Morris-type. But unfortunately, it probably won't be on the Lakers. |
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Snipes
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:02 am Post subject: |
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| ahaider wrote: | I get the feeling if we trade Kuzma that we’ll watch him blossom on another team a la Lonzo, Randle & BI.
LA is such a hard place to develop young talent. Personally, I think we do a great job drafting and a poor job developing most of these young guys. Maybe that was the byproduct of the bubble title. It just feels that we have no vision of what is the type of player we envision Kyle to be and then we get Lebron and try to shoehorn Kyle to fit that.
He’s not without fault but I blame our coaching staff for no coherent vision for offensive development for the majority of players. |
You don’t need to worry about that. Kuz is nowhere on the level of the players you mentioned talent wise. You won’t miss him and he doesn’t have many years left in this league. It’s a make it or miss league.
Also don’t expect to get anything good in return for him. Whole league knows the kid is not very good. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| Snipes wrote: | | ahaider wrote: | I get the feeling if we trade Kuzma that we’ll watch him blossom on another team a la Lonzo, Randle & BI.
LA is such a hard place to develop young talent. Personally, I think we do a great job drafting and a poor job developing most of these young guys. Maybe that was the byproduct of the bubble title. It just feels that we have no vision of what is the type of player we envision Kyle to be and then we get Lebron and try to shoehorn Kyle to fit that.
He’s not without fault but I blame our coaching staff for no coherent vision for offensive development for the majority of players. |
You don’t need to worry about that. Kuz is nowhere on the level of the players you mentioned talent wise. You won’t miss him and he doesn’t have many years left in this league. It’s a make it or miss league.
Also don’t expect to get anything good in return for him. Whole league knows the kid is not very good. |
Kuzma is only 26 -- he could still have another 8 or even 10 years in the league. He might not end up with a great career, but I think he'll have a long career.
His value is a mystery to me. I get the hazy sense that he's on the border of "maybe he still might have some potential" and "that's all folks." I don't think teams are salivating for him, as some Lakers fans think, but he might bring something back as part of a package. |
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TDRock
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epic_
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| Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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Doesn’t matter till he removes it from his twitter profile 
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TDRock
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| Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| epic_ wrote: |
Doesn’t matter till he removes it from his twitter profile |
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BigBoi
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| Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:21 am Post subject: |
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🗑
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#mamba4ever! |
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Reds622
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| Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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Kuzma regressed. Not sure why, but he did.
He’s going to be traded. |
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SGV-Laker fan
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| Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Reds622 wrote: | Kuzma regressed. Not sure why, but he did.
He’s going to be traded. |
Him and Ben Simmons are competing for the MRP award (most regressed player). |
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Outspoken
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| Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuz is worth soggy corn flakes. |
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epic_
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| Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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I think his shot regressed.
His overall game ticked up imo.
Just need to get the shot back next year.
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Can’t think of any reason why he would remove his Lakers bio from his IG if he did not sense that he got word that he could be moved this off season, he knows he’s been on a short leash in recent seasons.. he was involved in trade talks for Bogdan last year.. the dude knows he’s likely being moved this summer unless there is absolutely no deal out there that excites the FO. |
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MookieBetts50
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| Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:37 am Post subject: |
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His value is currently between the Costco hotdog and drink combo and the chicken bake.  |
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LakerSD
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| Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:12 am Post subject: |
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Looks like Kuz’s camp is leaking stuff. He honestly might be ready for a fresh start where he’s the 1 or 2 option on a team.
He’s still 26...so he probably wants to show out now and it won’t happen on a team with Lebron and AD. |
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LGFan
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| Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | Looks like Kuz’s camp is leaking stuff. He honestly might be ready for a fresh start where he’s the 1 or 2 option on a team.
He’s still 26...so he probably wants to show out now and it won’t happen on a team with Lebron and AD. |
He had plenty of chance to show off in the playoffs right? And put a big fat bagel |
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Outspoken
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| Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| I think Kuzma just needs a change in scenery. Under Zo he was the must effective, but to me that's because he was more involved and they sort of evolved together. Where as now, he's under to primetime stars, and he's not so much involved. He's playing outside of his game, to me, and regulated to more of just a catch and shot and when he does dribble, he lacks the confidence because it isn't his role. He's worried about if he messes up and have to sit the pine. There's not that much slack for him. Before, there wasn't that much pressure as well and we know in LA if you don't meet expectations, you are in trade rumors. As a young player, and with him constantly on social media, family probably hitting him up, that can mess with his psychy. I believe he'll flourish on another team. |
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epic_
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| Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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I think Kuz could use a fresh start.
It'll help his Puma brand.
I think Justice Winslow can do what he does. But better and cheaper.
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vasashi17+
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BadGuy
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 7:12 am Post subject: |
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Kuz can be an all-star in China, not the NBA. |
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RashardA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 7:17 am Post subject: |
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Kuz escaped poverty in Flint Michigan.
Got a college degree when no one said he could.
Got drafted when no one said he would, in the first round no less.
Became an NBA champion for the most legendary franchise in the history of the league.
Signed a multi-million dollar contract and has his family set for life.
Kyle Kuzma does NONE OF THAT if he listened to or gave a damn about what his detractors had to say.
Kuz is where he is because of hard work and self belief.
It doesnt surprise me one bit that he feels that way and what he says is true.
Kuz swallowed his pride and did whatever the coaches asked of him because he WANTED TO BE A LAKER AND HE WANTED TO WIN.
I see this fan base complaining about how many me first guys Rob brought in last year, yet they (bleep) on the one Laker who has made the most sacrifices of anyone to be a TEAM FIRST PLAYER.
Kuz has never been a problem for the Lakers on or off the court.
It's really laughable the way he's treated.
Wherever Kuz goes that franchise will be getting a self-less player who will do whatever it takes to help his team win.
I hope he goes someplace where the franchise and the fan base will actually believe in him and give him an opportunity to shine by putting him in the best possible position to succeed.
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Everyting negative - pressure, challenges - is all an opportunity for me to rise.
-Kobe Bryant |
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LakerSD
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 7:27 am Post subject: |
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All these guys who make it to the NBA have the belief that they are the top dog. That’s why you get a Harrell or Schroder or Drummond.
The thing is you have to accept your role or you will a) bounce around the league or b) be the star of a team that plays at a G League level.
I have no doubts Kuz can score 23+ ppg on another team. The question is can he be efficient.
Even Ingram and Randle are still learning on how to be efficient and Clarkson is just now starting to produce with efficiency. |
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Lakesh0wtime
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 7:34 am Post subject: |
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If AD would play the 5 then Kuz can finally start.
He needs to work on his ball handling though |
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