OFFICIAL Alex The Pope Caruso Thread
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vasashi17+
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:33 am    Post subject:

Wolf: if there was an artificial choice between THT and AC, wouldn’t it stand that you go for a guy that actually works next to Bron the best?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/alex-caruso-lebron-james-lakers-nba-playoffs-11600406618

LeBron’s title window is now. In order to exploit that type of generational player, you put a roster around him that has proven to work. I like THT’s potential, but AC has shown he plays well off/with Bron. So not going over 7m to retain him is bananas.

Quote:
The Lakers, they looked at Caruso and said, “We can go to 7 million a year. But above that, it gets too cost-prohibitive.”


Dude’s bulls contract is 30m guaranteed over 4 years. We had AC’s full bird rights, so we could have easily matched the Bulls offer, even while giving him 7m in yr1 of a 4yr deal using our ability to give him a max 8% increase each year. Bulls did not have his bird rights so they could only offer 5% annual escalators which is why they had to start at 8.6m in yr1 of his current deal. So you keep saying 10m in yr1, but that doesn’t want necessary to match/better the Bulls offer.

21/22 season: 7m
22/23: 7.56m (8% max annual escalator as a full bird player)
23/24: 8.16m (8% max annual escalator)
24/25: 8.82m (8% max annual escalator)
= 31.5m guaranteed over 4 years

You bring up how inept AC was as a 3pt shooter…yet, you justify THT over AC? Wtf?

Here’s a thought…we could have kept both since we were neither hard-capped or under the more punitive repeater tax rate.

I’m sorry…but I find it hard for any fan to justify the loss of AC as both a player and an asset (4yrs 30m is a great deal to have on your books).

Agree to disagree…the FO f’d this one up imho.
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Last edited by vasashi17+ on Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:39 am    Post subject:

I don't pick THT over Caruso. I'm saying that was the Lakers choice and while I love Caruso, and would have brought him back if it were me, I do understand when they have Westbrook, they want to have a running mate at the 2 who can shoot 3s and be comfortable and quick spot ups. This is not Caruso's strengths.

Then they look at defensive size, Caruso can not defend 3s, but they may be thinking THT can with his elite wingspan.

Look, for all we know, THT will be dealt by mid-season (although the BYC stuff may make that tough). I think Vogel was saying in preseason he viewed THT as the defensive impact guy, the one that took on the toughest defensive assignments. Then he got hurt.

All the guys they got at "2" next to Westbrook.

Monk - comfortable at catch and shoot.
Ellington - Ditto
Baze - Same

Then when it came to Westbrook's backup (where Caruso likely plays) they got Nunn and Rondo. Nunn is a guy that can create much better than Caruso, and Rondo is a floor general. You're clearly seeing a team that is trying to upgrade an offense that was having some issues last year.

We can't evaluate the impact of losing Caruso until 30-40 games in when all the guys we replaced him with have played and Westbrook finds a comfortable role on the team. When that happens, we will be able to see where Caruso could have helped. Right now it's way too early to be yearning for the guy, IMO.
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hype
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:49 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
vasashi17+ wrote:
Quote:
Rob Schaefer: Through four games, Alex Caruso leads the NBA in deflections per game (4.8) and is second in steals per game (3.3) while averaging 27.5 minutes – via Twitter rob_schaef


It doesn’t matter tho…cause as long as AD and Bron stay injury-free, we’ll be o…ohhh.

Too soon?

Did we win a title last year with Caruso?

uhm with a healthy AD and Lebron, YES we had a good chance of repeating


And we have a lesser chance of winning a title with a healthy Bron/AD, Westbrook, Melo, Ariza, Bazemore, Ellington, Dwight, Nunn, THT, Monk, Bradley etc.?

We're about in the same boat, IMO. Probably more talent now but less cohesion, and less talent last year but a bit more cohesion. Think fans are forgetting how easy it was for the Suns to just leave our shooters open and dare them to beat them. That was a major liability, as was Dennis' inability to be consistent at getting to the rim.


He was absolutely abysmal from 3 in the Playoffs for our title year as well and actually had a worse percentage over 21 games then even the Suns series. His fall off last season happened well before the Playoffs too, he started the season scorching hot and then fell off the cliff sometime in the second half. He also looked horrible both defensively and offensively in most of the stretch Bron was out when we were fighting for out Playoff lives. He's basically a fantastic team role player who excels when playing next to great players. It starts getting a little murky when he starts asking for a pay raise of 10 mil per over 4 years at 27 though.

I would have obviously loved to have him remain a Laker like every fan or anyone involved with the Lakers but all of the above on top of him coming off a pretty horrible overall Playoff showing made me understand the move. I don't think there are any fans that are happy he is gone.

This thread should be moved to the General BB section. He's gone now, no amount of complaining or reminiscing is going to change that.
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audioaxes
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:51 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
vasashi17+ wrote:
Quote:
Rob Schaefer: Through four games, Alex Caruso leads the NBA in deflections per game (4.8) and is second in steals per game (3.3) while averaging 27.5 minutes – via Twitter rob_schaef


It doesn’t matter tho…cause as long as AD and Bron stay injury-free, we’ll be o…ohhh.

Too soon?

Did we win a title last year with Caruso?

uhm with a healthy AD and Lebron, YES we had a good chance of repeating


And we have a lesser chance of winning a title with a healthy Bron/AD, Westbrook, Melo, Ariza, Bazemore, Ellington, Dwight, Nunn, THT, Monk, Bradley etc.?

We're about in the same boat, IMO. Probably more talent now but less cohesion, and less talent last year but a bit more cohesion. Think fans are forgetting how easy it was for the Suns to just leave our shooters open and dare them to beat them. That was a major liability, as was Dennis' inability to be consistent at getting to the rim.

our alternative team of Hield + Caruso + KCP over Westbrook would have been much better than this. Plus we could still sign players like Monk,Bazemore,Nunn, etc.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:11 am    Post subject:

Can we make a subforum for him

Carusostan?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:37 pm    Post subject:

Ooo-oooooooo I'm missing youuuu

https://twitter.com/stephnoh/status/1453910650837667842?s=21

Ah defense...
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jonnybravo
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:06 pm    Post subject:

TDRock wrote:
Ooo-oooooooo I'm missing youuuu

https://twitter.com/stephnoh/status/1453910650837667842?s=21

Ah defense...


Zo has also been awesome on that end too (per usual)

That combo is crazy dynamic defensively. Hands and feet everywhere. Man to have those two with AD as a back line defender and Lebron playing his best role as a free safety. Wooo! *sigh*. Gonna be a long season.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:04 am    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
TDRock wrote:
Ooo-oooooooo I'm missing youuuu

https://twitter.com/stephnoh/status/1453910650837667842?s=21

Ah defense...


Zo has also been awesome on that end too (per usual)

That combo is crazy dynamic defensively. Hands and feet everywhere. Man to have those two with AD as a back line defender and Lebron playing his best role as a free safety. Wooo! *sigh*. Gonna be a long season.


#lesigh
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 4:02 pm    Post subject:

TDRock wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
TDRock wrote:
Ooo-oooooooo I'm missing youuuu

https://twitter.com/stephnoh/status/1453910650837667842?s=21

Ah defense...


Zo has also been awesome on that end too (per usual)

That combo is crazy dynamic defensively. Hands and feet everywhere. Man to have those two with AD as a back line defender and Lebron playing his best role as a free safety. Wooo! *sigh*. Gonna be a long season.


#lesigh


4.6 steals a game, 2.2 blocks a game from 2 guards. That's getting it done.


I watch Bulls highlights nightly now. They're the most fun team to watch in the league. Only team that's on par for entertainment to me is when Steph does Steph things.
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TDRock
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2021 7:17 pm    Post subject:

Good job putting a beat down on the Celtics. You and Lonzo still Lakers at heart.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 2:55 pm    Post subject:

TDRock wrote:
Good job putting a beat down on the Celtics. You and Lonzo still Lakers at heart.


Outscored them 39-11 in 4th

Carugoat with a lot of 4th qtr mins too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v20H03eFbEM
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 6:21 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
TDRock wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
TDRock wrote:
Ooo-oooooooo I'm missing youuuu

https://twitter.com/stephnoh/status/1453910650837667842?s=21

Ah defense...


Zo has also been awesome on that end too (per usual)

That combo is crazy dynamic defensively. Hands and feet everywhere. Man to have those two with AD as a back line defender and Lebron playing his best role as a free safety. Wooo! *sigh*. Gonna be a long season.


#lesigh


4.6 steals a game, 2.2 blocks a game from 2 guards. That's getting it done.


I watch Bulls highlights nightly now. They're the most fun team to watch in the league. Only team that's on par for entertainment to me is when Steph does Steph things.


I like watching Bulls highlights as well, but mainly for Ayo Dos.
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:51 pm    Post subject:

audioaxes wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
vasashi17+ wrote:
Quote:
Rob Schaefer: Through four games, Alex Caruso leads the NBA in deflections per game (4.8) and is second in steals per game (3.3) while averaging 27.5 minutes – via Twitter rob_schaef


It doesn’t matter tho…cause as long as AD and Bron stay injury-free, we’ll be o…ohhh.

Too soon?

Did we win a title last year with Caruso?

uhm with a healthy AD and Lebron, YES we had a good chance of repeating


And we have a lesser chance of winning a title with a healthy Bron/AD, Westbrook, Melo, Ariza, Bazemore, Ellington, Dwight, Nunn, THT, Monk, Bradley etc.?

We're about in the same boat, IMO. Probably more talent now but less cohesion, and less talent last year but a bit more cohesion. Think fans are forgetting how easy it was for the Suns to just leave our shooters open and dare them to beat them. That was a major liability, as was Dennis' inability to be consistent at getting to the rim.

our alternative team of Hield + Caruso + KCP over Westbrook would have been much better than this. Plus we could still sign players like Monk,Bazemore,Nunn, etc.

That's fair if you assume Lebron wants to and can at this stage year 19 do what he did in year 17. I don't think Lebron wants to do that for his career longevity. He is basically playing 8 hard minutes a game at the moment. That's because of Westbrook.

In terms of when Bron shifts into PG mode full time and you look at pieces to have around him and AD? I totally agree with folks here who want Caruso, KCP, and maybe even Hield. I wasn't for the Westbrook trade, been lukewarm on it. I also wanted Caruso to be kept over THT. That said, Westbrook adds a dimension to the team those guy can't (pace, creativity on offense, Lebron's in game load management).

However, it's really nice to see Caruso do well. Great Laker role player. Nothing but love for that dude.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:25 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
I don't pick THT over Caruso. I'm saying that was the Lakers choice and while I love Caruso, and would have brought him back if it were me, I do understand when they have Westbrook, they want to have a running mate at the 2 who can shoot 3s and be comfortable and quick spot ups. This is not Caruso's strengths.

Then they look at defensive size, Caruso can not defend 3s, but they may be thinking THT can with his elite wingspan.

Look, for all we know, THT will be dealt by mid-season (although the BYC stuff may make that tough). I think Vogel was saying in preseason he viewed THT as the defensive impact guy, the one that took on the toughest defensive assignments. Then he got hurt.

All the guys they got at "2" next to Westbrook.

Monk - comfortable at catch and shoot.
Ellington - Ditto
Baze - Same

Then when it came to Westbrook's backup (where Caruso likely plays) they got Nunn and Rondo. Nunn is a guy that can create much better than Caruso, and Rondo is a floor general. You're clearly seeing a team that is trying to upgrade an offense that was having some issues last year.

We can't evaluate the impact of losing Caruso until 30-40 games in when all the guys we replaced him with have played and Westbrook finds a comfortable role on the team. When that happens, we will be able to see where Caruso could have helped. Right now it's way too early to be yearning for the guy, IMO.

You wrote all that and the Lakers are right now relying on Avery Bradley to keep the defense from completely sinking like chewing gum stuck over a hole in a submarine hull.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:01 am    Post subject:

Avery Bradley makes the vet min, and would not have cost the Lakers THT. To keep Caruso, Lakers needed to give up THT. It was one or the other because of the lux tax payments. This is being ignored, and I don't know why.

I would have chosen Caruso, but I also am in win now mode and don't really know THT's potential. We have to await and see what THT brings before we hate on the Lakers letting Caruso go.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:58 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:

I would have chosen Caruso, but I also am in win now mode and don't really know THT's potential. We have to await and see what THT brings before we hate on the Lakers letting Caruso go.


That THT tunnel vision
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:35 am    Post subject:

AC was gone b/c of WB's contract IMO.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:57 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
AC was gone b/c of WB's contract IMO.


He was gone because Jeanie didn’t want to spend more money. That is the only way that Westbrook’s contract figured in.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:59 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Avery Bradley makes the vet min, and would not have cost the Lakers THT. To keep Caruso, Lakers needed to give up THT. It was one or the other because of the lux tax payments. This is being ignored, and I don't know why.

I would have chosen Caruso, but I also am in win now mode and don't really know THT's potential. We have to await and see what THT brings before we hate on the Lakers letting Caruso go.

Because it's carrying water for cheap ownership.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 2:20 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Avery Bradley makes the vet min, and would not have cost the Lakers THT. To keep Caruso, Lakers needed to give up THT. It was one or the other because of the lux tax payments. This is being ignored, and I don't know why.

I would have chosen Caruso, but I also am in win now mode and don't really know THT's potential. We have to await and see what THT brings before we hate on the Lakers letting Caruso go.

Because it's carrying water for cheap ownership.


Yeah, we have some of the worst ownership in the league but nobody wants to acknowledge it. You would never see this with Cuban or Ballmer.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 2:56 pm    Post subject:

I thought this was Le interesting (Bleacher Report article but still)

"I don't understand why Kurt Rambis, of all people, let Caruso leave," an Eastern Conference executive said. "Rambis was the Caruso of the Showtime Lakers."

https://twitter.com/hmfaigen/status/1457821425843142658?s=21
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:36 pm    Post subject:

Alex Caruso On JJ Redick's Pod - What Exactly Happened In Free Agency That Led Him To Leave The Lakers For The Bulls:

https://youtu.be/7lvw1-ltYpQ

Sounds like he knew it was his opportunity to secure the bag and he also wanted more responsibility/larger role on a team.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 10:26 pm    Post subject:

Triumph wrote:
Alex Caruso On JJ Redick's Pod - What Exactly Happened In Free Agency That Led Him To Leave The Lakers For The Bulls:

https://youtu.be/7lvw1-ltYpQ

Sounds like he knew it was his opportunity to secure the bag and he also wanted more responsibility/larger role on a team.


He said he even offered to take less than what the Bulls were willing to pay him. The front office/Lebron seemed very dismissive in the way they handled things. Very annoying.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:21 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
Triumph wrote:
Alex Caruso On JJ Redick's Pod - What Exactly Happened In Free Agency That Led Him To Leave The Lakers For The Bulls:

https://youtu.be/7lvw1-ltYpQ

Sounds like he knew it was his opportunity to secure the bag and he also wanted more responsibility/larger role on a team.


He said he even offered to take less than what the Bulls were willing to pay him. The front office/Lebron seemed very dismissive in the way they handled things. Very annoying.


I haven't even wanted to listen to that yet. I don't feel like being as annoyed as I know I will be...
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:38 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Avery Bradley makes the vet min, and would not have cost the Lakers THT. To keep Caruso, Lakers needed to give up THT. It was one or the other because of the lux tax payments. This is being ignored, and I don't know why.

I would have chosen Caruso, but I also am in win now mode and don't really know THT's potential. We have to await and see what THT brings before we hate on the Lakers letting Caruso go.

Because it's carrying water for cheap ownership.


Yeah, we have some of the worst ownership in the league but nobody wants to acknowledge it. You would never see this with Cuban or Ballmer.


Except for the fact Balmer made a move to save 30 million in lux tax only weeks after the Lakers let Caruso sign with the Bulls? Balmer also wanted to trade nearly the entire Roster and fire all the coaches after losing to the Nuggets the year before and had to have his hand held to get off the ledge. He might be worth a ton of money but that doesn't mean he's willing to go crazy in lux tax at all.

The Lakers are doing pretty fantastic over the last 25 years considering having the worst ownership n the league

The Mavs also haven't been a true Contender since Dirk left so not sure why you would bring them up like they are consistently killing it. Luka is a great player no doubt but they're still just a 1st or 2nd round Playoff team imo especially with the toxic salary of the always injured unicorn.. Imagine if he didn't step on Don Nelson's toes who was extremely adamant about wanting to draft Giannis but instead Cuban traded the pick to save the cap space at a chance to get Dwight. He also completely dismantled the Championship team which many here hate the Lakers front office for doing.

We have 3 max guys and the 4th highest payroll in the entire NBA, we're far from extremely cheap and the worst ownership in the league.. Jesus Christ

I agree it sucks watching Caruso ball out for the Bulls but some of these claims are pretty ridiculous to say the least. I also completely understand people wishing we chose Caruso instead even though I personally am happy we kept THT but that's clearly TBD still as of now.
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