Said it many times and saying again. Lakers need better GM who understands team needs and know what he is doing. Not someone who always goes after Big names than fit.
after 2020 season, we needed small tweaks and we did so many bad changes
then again, this year we did the same.
Russel Westbrook? seriously. who in the world with championship goal signs WB?
Said it many times and saying again. Lakers need better GM who understands team needs and know what he is doing. Not someone who always goes after Big names than fit.
Going after big names regardless of fit has always been the Lakers way, though.
Said it many times and saying again. Lakers need better GM who understands team needs and know what he is doing. Not someone who always goes after Big names than fit.
Going after big names regardless of fit has always been the Lakers way, though.
He may be a new fan _________________ Coach Vogel, Kidd, Hollins
Max slot : Kawhi
But was it Rob's decision, or did Dwight get confused, panicked and signed with Philly because he was being Dwight? If it was the latter, how is that on Rob?
Rob/Lakers should have not permitted Dwight to be confused. They should have spelled out the situation in a way that left no one in doubt.
You're just being obstinate. "We need to get the OK from Jeanie to go over budget and will get back to you in 48 hours" is about as clear as it gets.
What you're describing is poor management of the situation.
The Lakers had all the time in the world to work out every possible scenario and decide how they were going to handle it.
They shouldn't have needed to tell Dwight to wait for 48 hours while they decided what they were going to do. That should have already been figured out.
They bungled it.
Asking Dwight to wait 48 hours is biggest joke. Dude was looking for vet minimum. All off season Front Office said signing Dwight was of highest priority. when time comes, you need 48 hours to sign him for minimum. ?
wowwww
I agree this sounds incredibly fishy. If they don't sign Dwight they have to sign someone else who counts just as much towards the budget. I think those 48 hours were really to wait on Harrell. That said, Dwight came back with seemingly no ill-will so I'm sure the truth lies somewhere in between and differs depending on whomever you ask. _________________ Luxury Tax/FA Spreadsheet (Save to your Google Drive to edit)
Any GM that starts a team with Lebron/AD or even Lebron alone has been dealt pocket Aces. You can still play the hand wrong and just win because you have such an advance given the hand you were dealt.
In the case of Rob, he has played the hand wrong more than he has played it right.
Which of his moves were bad? You can't criticize moves he didn't make unless you know the conditions under which he was operating (e.g. blaming him for not closing the Kawhi deal when it's now apparent that Kawhi did not want to want to come here).
Can we agree that the whole Howard-Harrell-Gasol-Drummond saga was not well played? You can say that it didn't make any difference because of injuries, or you can brush it off some other way. However, can we find common ground and just agree that this was not well done?
But was it Rob's decision, or did Dwight get confused, panicked and signed with Philly because he was being Dwight? If it was the latter, how is that on Rob?
This ish ain't slavery. The players have a say in it, too, and sometimes they do things contrary to what is in their best interests.
I guess the answer is No, we can't find common ground and agree that this was not well played. If you can't even come that far, then there isn't much point to the discussion.
We can agree that it was not well played. The issue is - WHO misplayed it? It wasn't Solitaire. _________________ On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns".
Said it many times and saying again. Lakers need better GM who understands team needs and know what he is doing. Not someone who always goes after Big names than fit.
after 2020 season, we needed small tweaks and we did so many bad changes
then again, this year we did the same.
Russel Westbrook? seriously. who in the world with championship goal signs WB?
let 2 best defenders go and got bunch of garbage.
LOL at the outraged Clippers' fan. _________________ On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns".
Said it many times and saying again. Lakers need better GM who understands team needs and know what he is doing. Not someone who always goes after Big names than fit.
after 2020 season, we needed small tweaks and we did so many bad changes
then again, this year we did the same.
Russel Westbrook? seriously. who in the world with championship goal signs WB?
let 2 best defenders go and got bunch of garbage.
LOL at the outraged Clippers' fan.
Is that VenturaClippersfan Or some one else? _________________ Coach Vogel, Kidd, Hollins
Max slot : Kawhi
Appears I was wrong and they let Ayayi go. Now if he quickly signs a 2-way with another team then I would believe he asked out or he possibly has a $$ overseas contract in hand.
Any GM that starts a team with Lebron/AD or even Lebron alone has been dealt pocket Aces. You can still play the hand wrong and just win because you have such an advance given the hand you were dealt.
In the case of Rob, he has played the hand wrong more than he has played it right.
Which of his moves were bad? You can't criticize moves he didn't make unless you know the conditions under which he was operating (e.g. blaming him for not closing the Kawhi deal when it's now apparent that Kawhi did not want to want to come here).
I can add more to this list around just general asset retention, however, I'll stick with the big ones.
Stephenson
Beasley
Drafting Ball
Waiving Deng a year before necessary for no reason.
Letting Randle walk for nothing.
Letting Brook leave for $3m a year.
Trading Zubac
Trez > Dwight (and the decision to hardcap the team was equally as bad)
Schroder (what would have happened if he signed the extension?)
Drummond
Gasol (it cost us 2 second picks - 1 to create room to sign him, 1 to dump his salary).
AC
I think we are going to see again this year the team fall way short because of roster decisions.
well, he was also part of:
signing kcp
signing coach vogel and his staff
trading for kuz
drafting hart
signing lebron
trading for davis
signing javale
giving dwight a chance
drafting tht
scrambling to get green, bradley, rondo, dudz
signing morris
and 1 title...
I dunno, I guess the title makes up for a lot...?
I look at most of last year's moves as their way of trying to get to the finish line while load managing a shortened season starting too soon...
had it not been for the injuries, who knows...
Last edited by dino on Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
Can we agree that the whole Howard-Harrell-Gasol-Drummond saga was not well played? You can say that it didn't make any difference because of injuries, or you can brush it off some other way. However, can we find common ground and just agree that this was not well done?
No.
DH - Dr.Laker has already addressed the same issues I have.
Harrell - wasn't the consensus on this board in favor of this signing. I was taking a wait and see approach before forming an opinion.
Gasol - This forum was probably 50-50 on his signing. I was in favor but showing up out of shape was an indicator of his less than 100% commitment to the season.
Drummond - agree as I just did not see how his game fit with Lebron and AD.
Bonus: I was not a fan of the Schroder acquitision but took a wait and see approach. By Feb. I was in the minority with a few other posters who saw him as a failure as a 3rd scoring option with minimal PG skills.
Any GM that starts a team with Lebron/AD or even Lebron alone has been dealt pocket Aces. You can still play the hand wrong and just win because you have such an advance given the hand you were dealt.
In the case of Rob, he has played the hand wrong more than he has played it right.
Which of his moves were bad? You can't criticize moves he didn't make unless you know the conditions under which he was operating (e.g. blaming him for not closing the Kawhi deal when it's now apparent that Kawhi did not want to want to come here).
I can add more to this list around just general asset retention, however, I'll stick with the big ones.
Stephenson - Tragic
Beasley - Tragic
Drafting Ball - Tragic
Waiving Deng a year before necessary for no reason. - Tragic
Letting Randle walk for nothing. - Tragic
Letting Brook leave for $3m a year. - Tragic
Trading Zubac - Tragic
Trez > Dwight (and the decision to hardcap the team was equally as bad) - I believe the consensus here was in favor of the Trez signing. For DH lots of unknown of what occurred and if DH overreacted and made an impulsive decision that I believe even he realized was wrong.
Schroder (what would have happened if he signed the extension?) - the consensus of the posters liked this acquitision
Drummond - agree
Gasol (it cost us 2 second picks - 1 to create room to sign him, 1 to dump his salary). -board consensus was 50-50 I believe. I was in favor.
AC - tbd and this is from a supporter from his Gleague days.
I think we are going to see again this year the team fall way short because of roster decisions.
Love Magic as a player but as a talent evaluator and President of Basketball Ops he was an abject failure. Further denigrating the Lakers upon leaving the team was inexcusable, just looking for sympathy and attention imo and thus outside of his on court achievements he is Tragic.
Any GM that starts a team with Lebron/AD or even Lebron alone has been dealt pocket Aces. You can still play the hand wrong and just win because you have such an advance given the hand you were dealt.
In the case of Rob, he has played the hand wrong more than he has played it right.
Which of his moves were bad? You can't criticize moves he didn't make unless you know the conditions under which he was operating (e.g. blaming him for not closing the Kawhi deal when it's now apparent that Kawhi did not want to want to come here).
I can add more to this list around just general asset retention, however, I'll stick with the big ones.
Stephenson
Beasley
Drafting Ball
Waiving Deng a year before necessary for no reason.
Letting Randle walk for nothing.
Letting Brook leave for $3m a year.
Trading Zubac
Trez > Dwight (and the decision to hardcap the team was equally as bad)
Schroder (what would have happened if he signed the extension?)
Drummond
Gasol (it cost us 2 second picks - 1 to create room to sign him, 1 to dump his salary).
AC
I think we are going to see again this year the team fall way short because of roster decisions.
well, he was also part of:
signing kcp
signing coach vogel and his staff
trading for kuz
drafting hart
signing lebron
trading for davis
signing javale
giving dwight a chance
drafting tht
scrambling to get green, bradley, rondo, dudz
signing morris
and 1 title...
I dunno, I guess the title makes up for a lot...?
Thanks Dino, a lot here want everything perfect and dont see the positive only see the negative.
let me add some more under his time here
Got out of MOZ/DENG contract
Under Kupchak season 13-17 last 4 season 25th, 27th, 29th, 28th
Got hired March 2017 and 3 superstars in 4 year LBJ/AD/RW
Keep finding gems (Kuz, Hart, AC, THT, Bryant, Svi, Reaves)
Got Nunn, Monk
Change the Laker culture back a place u want to be again.
Change outlook from lottery to championship contender.
Has not sign a somebody to a stupid contract.
Any idea what criteria's were used to set the rankings?
I might put the Jazz at the top. Always puts out a competitive team despite being one of the least favorable FA destinations. Has done a good job identifying talent and assembling a respected coaching staff.
Any idea what criteria's were used to set the rankings?
I might put the Jazz at the top. Always puts out a competitive team despite being one of the least favorable FA destinations. Has done a good job identifying talent and assembling a respected coaching staff.
It looks like someone took ESPN's future power ratings and pulled out the management rating. That's an annual fluff piece, so I didn't give it much attention. We were #3 in the future power ratings (behind the Nets and Bucks), if anyone cares.
Anyway, the article gives us a score of 73 out of 100 for management. There's a pretty big spread. The Pelicans, Magic, and Rockets got a 23, and the Cavs and Kings got a 13. The TWolves got a 3. So just looking at the rank is a bit misleading. I added the scores to the list above, just so you can have some perspective.
It looks like someone took ESPN's future power ratings and pulled out the management rating. That's an annual fluff piece, so I didn't give it much attention. We were #3 in the future power ratings (behind the Nets and Bucks), if anyone cares.
Anyway, the article gives us a score of 73 out of 100 for management. There's a pretty big spread. The Pelicans, Magic, and Rockets got a 23, and the Cavs and Kings got a 13. The TWolves got a 3. So just looking at the rank is a bit misleading. I added the scores to the list above, just so you can have some perspective.
Can we agree that the whole Howard-Harrell-Gasol-Drummond saga was not well played? You can say that it didn't make any difference because of injuries, or you can brush it off some other way. However, can we find common ground and just agree that this was not well done?
No.
DH - Dr.Laker has already addressed the same issues I have.
Harrell - wasn't the consensus on this board in favor of this signing. I was taking a wait and see approach before forming an opinion.
Gasol - This forum was probably 50-50 on his signing. I was in favor but showing up out of shape was an indicator of his less than 100% commitment to the season.
Drummond - agree as I just did not see how his game fit with Lebron and AD.
Bonus: I was not a fan of the Schroder acquitision but took a wait and see approach. By Feb. I was in the minority with a few other posters who saw him as a failure as a 3rd scoring option with minimal PG skills.
On the surface Trez looks like a steal given his PPG, 6man of the year. The consensus on the board is WB is a great trade. Most people look at name and stats and don't think about fit, role or salary cap implications.
Trez played a position that wasn't a need, couldn't defend, didn't compliment AD or Lebron. Great name, horrible fit. His signing alone hard-capped the team and removed a lot of flexibility.
The Gasol signing was just flawed. Gave him a 2 year vet min so his salary hit was the full vet min, which forced us to dump salary and trade away a pick. Then we traded away another pick with him to save money.
I actually thought the Schroder trade on the surface had potential. He wasn't the best fit with Lebron, but as a 6th man, playing staggered minutes, it could work. The problem is Rob traded for Schroder, knowing he wanted to start.
Since we were handicapped (thank you Rob for signing Trez), we couldn't even make move mid-season once we saw Schroder wasn't likely to resign.
Any GM that starts a team with Lebron/AD or even Lebron alone has been dealt pocket Aces. You can still play the hand wrong and just win because you have such an advance given the hand you were dealt.
In the case of Rob, he has played the hand wrong more than he has played it right.
Which of his moves were bad? You can't criticize moves he didn't make unless you know the conditions under which he was operating (e.g. blaming him for not closing the Kawhi deal when it's now apparent that Kawhi did not want to want to come here).
I can add more to this list around just general asset retention, however, I'll stick with the big ones.
Stephenson - Tragic
Beasley - Tragic
Drafting Ball - Tragic
Waiving Deng a year before necessary for no reason. - Tragic
Letting Randle walk for nothing. - Tragic
Letting Brook leave for $3m a year. - Tragic
Trading Zubac - Tragic
Trez > Dwight (and the decision to hardcap the team was equally as bad) - I believe the consensus here was in favor of the Trez signing. For DH lots of unknown of what occurred and if DH overreacted and made an impulsive decision that I believe even he realized was wrong.
Schroder (what would have happened if he signed the extension?) - the consensus of the posters liked this acquitision
Drummond - agree
Gasol (it cost us 2 second picks - 1 to create room to sign him, 1 to dump his salary). -board consensus was 50-50 I believe. I was in favor.
AC - tbd and this is from a supporter from his Gleague days.
I think we are going to see again this year the team fall way short because of roster decisions.
Love Magic as a player but as a talent evaluator and President of Basketball Ops he was an abject failure. Further denigrating the Lakers upon leaving the team was inexcusable, just looking for sympathy and attention imo and thus outside of his on court achievements he is Tragic.
PT, imho this is wrong on so many levels.
So let me get this correct….anything wrong came at the hands of Magic (er, Tragic) while he was still here. Anything bad afterwards wasn’t really all that bad or classified as a 50-50 type decision based off forum banter. And anything good was done by Rob.
That’s a pretty lazy narrative with broad strokes, no?
Speaking of broads telling stories, Woj had a report where Magic didn’t put in the work and was an “absentee exec”, so if that’s true how did he construct all the necessary transactions that dealt with cap minutiae to bring in Bron and possibly Kawhi as FAs with MozDeng on the books. He must have parked in Bron’s driveway all day and took all his work calls from there.
I’d like to also point out Woj was a teen brought up in Connecticut which is just a couple hours outside of Boston, at a time when Lakers vs Celtics was kind of a big deal that involved our tragic exec.
I just don’t understand why it’s so hard to understand that Magic wasn’t a great choice as an exec, but neither was Rob. They both had their up & downs and overall should get credit for bringing us out of the MozDeng era.
But they had their warts both as a unit and individually. They also didn’t have the resume to handle this job by themselves (along with counsel from Rambis). Which is why, I feel we wound be better off with a more robust FO with guys that are we agree to learn (like Rob) from those that have been in the game for a minute (like Riles or Jerry West).
If Magic did anything by himself, it was the Lou trade for the 28th overall pick. That decision was made when Rob was not hired yet. We were clearly angling to tank for a higher pick, but Lou kept us afloat so he had to go. It ended up with Zo at #2 (via the tank job) and Kuz or Hart (since we ended up swapping #28 again for #30 & #42 (Hart/TB).
But the biggest assist Magic gave us as an exec is vacating a PBO position he clearly was not prepared to handle. However, instead of finding a more capable and credentialed individual, we decided not to fill that position (see Riles & West here too).
If we had more hands on deck (ie a more robust FO), you wouldn’t get Dwight miscommunications…you wouldn’t get Marc miscommunications….you wouldn’t get AC miscommunications…you wouldn’t get hurt feelings by promising starting roles…you wouldn’t get misses with your top FA target…you wouldn’t get misses with your top coaching targets…
Speaking of which, from rumors of our FO sitting in on coaching meetings, to handpicking our HC’s assistants…Rob/Kurt, y’all micromanage much?
Quote:
Frank Vogel says the coaching staff, front office and team captains will discuss who will start over the next few days. He reiterates that they don't want to change too often. They want to find a lineup that works and stick with it.
Franks says that the team does not expect to add a new two-way player quickly. They're going to evaluate their options, and they hope Joel Ayayi will rejoin South Bay when he clears waivers.
Any idea what criteria's were used to set the rankings?
I might put the Jazz at the top. Always puts out a competitive team despite being one of the least favorable FA destinations. Has done a good job identifying talent and assembling a respected coaching staff.
Good during the season but flops every post season _________________ Coach Vogel, Kidd, Hollins
Max slot : Kawhi
Any idea what criteria's were used to set the rankings?
I might put the Jazz at the top. Always puts out a competitive team despite being one of the least favorable FA destinations. Has done a good job identifying talent and assembling a respected coaching staff.
Good during the season but flops every post season
Yup, every year people say "don't underestimate them!" but honestly for being a top team they just never scare me year after year. A rock solid regular season team though if you love throwing up those division banners I guess.
Any idea what criteria's were used to set the rankings?
I might put the Jazz at the top. Always puts out a competitive team despite being one of the least favorable FA destinations. Has done a good job identifying talent and assembling a respected coaching staff.
Good during the season but flops every post season
Not questioning the Jazz success or lack of in the post season just that they over achieve considering the restraints they work under. The Jazz are probably one of the worst FA destinations in the league and must build their team the old fashion way.
In particular they need to hit on their draft picks and on the FA's who will sign, make shrewd trades, develop their prospects and have coaches who maximize their play on the court.
They somehow come up with a Gordon Hayward, Donovan Mitchell, Rudy Gobert, Deron Williams and going back in time John Stockton, Karl Malone and quite a few others.
Any idea what criteria's were used to set the rankings?
I might put the Jazz at the top. Always puts out a competitive team despite being one of the least favorable FA destinations. Has done a good job identifying talent and assembling a respected coaching staff.
I'd have to agree with Utah being above us. They've done really well despite having the biggest disadvantage when it comes to free agency.
So let me get this correct….anything wrong came at the hands of Magic (er, Tragic) while he was still here. Anything bad afterwards wasn’t really all that bad or classified as a 50-50 type decision based off forum banter. And anything good was done by Rob.
That’s a pretty lazy narrative with broad strokes, no?
This is why I asked the question that I did. If we can't even agree that the Howard-Harrell-Gasol-Drummond saga was not handled well, then we're just playing message board games. The satirical British story in my signature is something I try to avoid.
The opinions of people on a message board about a particular move have little relevance because (a) we expect front office personnel to have conducted a much more thorough and reasoned analysis than a bunch of message board posters, and (b) at least on LG, a lot of posters will support and defend any move the team makes. Sure, there were people who supported a lot of the moves that turned out poorly. There were people who liked the Deng signing, too.
Seriously, I'm not joking about people liking the Deng signing. Here are some of the reactions when we signed him. I am omitting names, because I don't want to embarrass anyone. That's not the point. I've been dead wrong before, too.
Quote:
Nice. He can teach Ingram how to be a pro. Great signing!
Quote:
This is a veteran move that makes sense. He will be a contributor and mentor as well! Very nice!
Quote:
He'll be 35 when the deal is up but I'm very happy about it. Wing defense and 3pt shooting just got better. I'm sure he's got a thing or two to teach Brandon.
Here are some quotes from a thread entitled "Can Luol Deng become an All-star next year?":
Quote:
It's not to long ago he was a all-star ( 2012, 2013 ).
Considering he will have a big fan base behind his back voting for him and the chance he will be making a difference for the team in Ws and Ls.
Quote:
I like Deng. He's our best FA signing. When the season starts he'll probably be our best/most consistent player on both sides of the ball.
He's definitely the best 2-way player on the roster.
But there is no way in hell he makes the all star team this year.
Quote:
Not likely but not exactly out of the realm of possibility.
I could see him putting up similar numbers to his AS years.
If he played 30-32mpg. At 16pts/ 6 reb/ 3 asst / 1 stl/ 35% from 3pt. Plus was the defensive leader for a resurgent Laker team.
We have another 2 way player open, is there another prospect unsigned out right now worth signing or is Brown or Queen showed enough to deserve the spot.
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