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LakerSD Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016 Posts: 23731
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:41 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | The Pelicans have assigned third-year center Jaxson Hayes to G League Birmingham. |
Yikes. |
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LakerSD Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016 Posts: 23731
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:46 am Post subject: |
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I don’t want to trade AD, personally.
What I want from AD is the guy who played in New Orleans and had the entire league wanting to trade for him. I want the guy who came to the Lakers in 2019-20 and took over.
We can scratch last season to the short turnaround, but this season with the exception of a couple of good or great games, AD is going through the motions and is playing like a fat and happy content dude making his money.
He is of no use to the Lakers at a max salary on a top heavy team if he doesn’t want to be that top tier superstar. Imo he has lost that hunger and only shows up when heavily criticized.
AD loafing around the court and settling for perimeter shots has the impact of Carlos Boozer and we need him to have the impact of a Giannis, Kevin Garnett, etc.
Edit: He also did himself a huge disservice when he adamantly said he didn’t want to play the 5. Even if he said he is open to it now, the perception is that the guy isn’t all in all the time. This is not the 90s of banging centers the entire game. Bad move on AD’s part because the perception/consequence of that is that he is soft and teams are attacking him this season. |
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gng930 Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 11475
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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vasashi17+ wrote: | PenG_ wrote: | activeverb wrote: | PenG_ wrote: | carjoch831 wrote: | Quote: | Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
·
48s
Free agent Wesley Matthews plans to sign a deal with the Bucks, sources tell @TheAthletic
@Stadium
. The 12-year veteran, who spent last season with the Los Angeles Lakers, is set to return to Milwaukee. |
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Unbelievable. Ownership got cheap on AC, DS, Kieff, and Wes, and now Wes is picked up by the Bucks, adding wing depth to an already superior roster. What an annoying season so far. |
1. We didn't get cheap on DS. We offered him a massive deal that he turned down.
2. We didn't get cheap on Kieff or Wes. They were both available for the minimum. We simply choose to use minimum spots we could have given to them on other players.
3. We did get cheap on AS. So you are 1 out of 4 correct. |
My post was in reference to something in vasash's previous post, but I admit there's always something I could misinterpret.
Quote: | If we had AC (we had full bird rights), Kieff (had early bird rights to pay him up to 10.5m), Wes (had nonbird rights to pay him up to 4.3m based off his previous BAE amount) & whatever Schro brought back in a S&t or a re-up (via his full bird rights) |
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We gotta remember that vet mins count as 1.7m in salary aggregation, so if we’re trying to find salary fodder to attach to THT/Nunn’s 14.5m, it would take multiple vet min guys to get a certain deals done and then consider that in season trades where more than 2 players go out for 1 is harder to do since teams can’t roster more than 15 players in season (vs 20 in the offseason).
So for example, we would need a 5 for 1 trade to occur to have enough salary to bring in a 23m+ salaried player (like Buddy Hield for example). That type of trade can’t occur in season without a lot of roster upheaval occurring.
So that’s where I personally feel we could have given guys like Wes & Kieff a bit more than the vet min deals they fit elsewhere. We pay them a bit more than the vet mins they would get elsewhere, we either retain them as team needs or go find bigger needs using them as salary fodder.
For example, Kieff as our stretch 5 and Wes as an additional wing are both elements this team needs right now. Till then, it’s let’s pray THT’s wingspan helps him become a defensive wing that we can rely on. Till then, let’s hike Dwight keeps hitting 3s to be our stretch 5…if not, let’s get gimmicky again and get Bron to play the 5. But Kieff @3.5m per and Wes at 4.3m for example could have given us additional salary at the trade deadline if a deal needed rj get greased through. Instead, we gotta rely on a plethora of 1.7m vet min deals to get anything done. |
Wes disappointed last year so I understand them not wanting to bring him, much less at a raise. I was very disappointed they let Kief go. True he ended up settling for the minimum elsewhere (why bid against yourself?) but I also felt he took a pay-cut and playing time sacrifice last year and contributed heavily to both the championship run and our overall identity. Those are the kind of guys you reward IMO.
In terms of salary-matching for trades it does feel like we're trying to pay at the parking meter right now but all we have are pennies and bills. _________________ Luxury Tax/FA Spreadsheet (Save to your Google Drive to edit) |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46490
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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LakerSD wrote: | Quote: | The Pelicans have assigned third-year center Jaxson Hayes to G League Birmingham. |
Yikes. |
I don’t watch Pelicans games has he really regressed? |
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Hard_Butter Franchise Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2012 Posts: 12223 Location: The Two One Three
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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CJ would be perfect for the Sixers.....in fact, CJ would be the perfect 3rd star for us. _________________ The butter's hard and the eggs are chillin' in the dark.
Kiss my Converse. |
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SGV-Laker fan Star Player
Joined: 23 May 2013 Posts: 8840
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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I’m in the trading AD camp. For those of you wanting to see a more aggressive AD, the reality is he gets very injury prone when playing aggressively. He knows that too, that’s why he plays like he does now. You want a healthy AD that shoot jumpers all day or an aggressive AD who can go down on injury any time? I want neither, I want Dame. |
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joeblow Star Player
Joined: 24 Nov 2008 Posts: 3075
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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SGV-Laker fan wrote: | I’m in the trading AD camp.
.
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I want Dame. |
I literally cannot wrap my head around suggestions like this. We can all see that our biggest issue on the court is defense this season (injuries are nursed off court), but some suggest solutions that make us defend even worse?
As bad as the Lakers have been at stopping opponents from scoring, the worst defensive team in the league is Portland, but we will get an upgrade by giving up our best defender in AD for their smallest one? I just don't get it. |
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LGFan Star Player
Joined: 07 Jun 2021 Posts: 1860
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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LakerSD wrote: | I don’t want to trade AD, personally.
What I want from AD is the guy who played in New Orleans and had the entire league wanting to trade for him. I want the guy who came to the Lakers in 2019-20 and took over.
We can scratch last season to the short turnaround, but this season with the exception of a couple of good or great games, AD is going through the motions and is playing like a fat and happy content dude making his money.
He is of no use to the Lakers at a max salary on a top heavy team if he doesn’t want to be that top tier superstar. Imo he has lost that hunger and only shows up when heavily criticized.
AD loafing around the court and settling for perimeter shots has the impact of Carlos Boozer and we need him to have the impact of a Giannis, Kevin Garnett, etc.
Edit: He also did himself a huge disservice when he adamantly said he didn’t want to play the 5. Even if he said he is open to it now, the perception is that the guy isn’t all in all the time. This is not the 90s of banging centers the entire game. Bad move on AD’s part because the perception/consequence of that is that he is soft and teams are attacking him this season. |
after his display in the 1st year and in the bubble the expectation was him to take the next step and be in the MVP/best player in the league conversation.
looks like he got satisfied with only 1 ring and 5year max. I am ok to move on from him for the ideal package....cant trust him when it counts
maybe old guy VLF was right on this one? he definitely cant lead us after bron is gone |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46490
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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Hard_Butter wrote: | CJ would be perfect for the Sixers.....in fact, CJ would be the perfect 3rd star for us. |
Is Westbrook for CJ McCollum really a game changer? |
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Halflife Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015 Posts: 16656
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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ad for evan mobley |
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Outspoken Star Player
Joined: 11 Feb 2015 Posts: 8447
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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roger_federer wrote: | folks want to trade AD. |
What say you? |
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LakerSD Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016 Posts: 23731
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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Inspector Gadget wrote: | LakerSD wrote: | Quote: | The Pelicans have assigned third-year center Jaxson Hayes to G League Birmingham. |
Yikes. |
I don’t watch Pelicans games has he really regressed? |
Haven’t watched too much Pels, just think he has been in the doghouse with a couple of coaches.
Seems like he falls asleep at the little things from what I see and he can be out of control too.
That offseason incident probably doesn’t help him either. |
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LakersForever123 Star Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2012 Posts: 2261
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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Halflife wrote: | ad for evan mobley |
add Jarrett Allen and it is a done deal. |
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oaktown_dimond Star Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2007 Posts: 1357
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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simmons for WB would be amazing. too bad the sixers would never bite.
but i can dream. doesn't shoot a lick, but defends, passes and can play point/center. not to mention his agent is rich paul.
we have enough firepower, the problem is we can't stop the ball on the other end of the court. and we're collectively too damn short. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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GOODRICH25 wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | It shouldn’t be about numbers with AD, especially counting numbers. AD put up great numbers in New Orleans and how well did that translate to winning? He put up numbers some times with Lebron out and with a supposed star in Westbrook and that didn’t translate to winning. AD is a top 20 player in the league but like Jokic, plays a position that the league passed by years ago. Not AD’s fault but building around a center who needs wing players to succeed ended with the rise of the Warriors. |
Ok, lets see then what he did in NO:
Rookie year, they finish 27-55, with Davis 23-41
Sophomore, they improve to 34-48, with AD 29-38
3rd year they make playoffs, 45-37, with AD 39-29
They lose to Warriors but youll probably blame the guy that put up 31-11-2-3 on 54%/89%. Because oh well, you cant build around bigs now. It took James 3 seasons to get out of the east, but AD getting it done in the west where you need 55% win percentage (sometimes 60%) to even make the playoffs is him proving you cant build around bigs according to you.
4th year down year, 30-52, but 24-33 with him
5th year 34-48, with AD 31-44, 7 wins short of the playoffs
6th year 48-34, with AD 45-30. Beat the Blazers, lost to the Warriors. Big playoff performances once more
7th year 33-49, with AD 25-31. Another down year after losing Rondo and Boogie.
But that aside, the team has always, every single time, won more when he plays vs when he doesnt. The teams record without him those years was attrocious, even when they made playoffs they had losing records with him out. As for him missing playoffs in a terrible organization in a stacked conference, other players that you think you can build around today have all done it. James, Steph, Kyrie, George, Booker, Westbrook, Wall, Beal etc., all since ADs rookie year. You want to blame AD for not winning in NO, when he in fact won once he left, while the others are fine even tho they keep losing. |
That’s not a valid point, when you build a team around one player of course you will be worse without him (see Lebron and the Lakers this season). NO won a playoff series once as AD’s team. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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Lakesh0wtime wrote: | BILBJH wrote: | I could see Luka carrying AD to a title.
A young LBJ or CP3...
The problem is there are usually very few players of that caliber available.
Giannis won a title with Jrue and Khris.
AD couldn't get past the first round with Jrue, Rondo, Mirotic...
So if maybe if Cuban dies and his wife has no interest in basketball I suppose we have a chance of acquiring him. |
Are holiday, rondo, and mirotic supposed to be a playoff caliber supporting cast?
. |
I’m pretty sure that Rondo and Holiday have been. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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lakersfever714 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 11597
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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How much can we get back for AD? Gotta trade him when his value is still high assuming it's still high. I want a lot of picks. It'll be hard to compete against the Warriors in the next few years so might as well start the rebuild now. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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Inspector Gadget wrote: | LakerSD wrote: | Quote: | The Pelicans have assigned third-year center Jaxson Hayes to G League Birmingham. |
Yikes. |
I don’t watch Pelicans games has he really regressed? |
He got into some legal problems and I don’t think that he is there mentally. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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Inspector Gadget wrote: | Hard_Butter wrote: | CJ would be perfect for the Sixers.....in fact, CJ would be the perfect 3rd star for us. |
Is Westbrook for CJ McCollum really a game changer? |
I guess if Portland really wants to piss Lillard off. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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LakerSD Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016 Posts: 23731
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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It’s funny to see Memphis do this well without Ja and the Lakers struggle against tanking teams with the big 3 playing. |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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lakersfever714 wrote: | How much can we get back for AD? Gotta trade him when his value is still high assuming it's still high. I want a lot of picks. It'll be hard to compete against the Warriors in the next few years so might as well start the rebuild now. |
We might be able to flip Davis and THT for John Wall. He's a client of Team Lebron, so Rich Paul can probably find a way to get the Rockets to make the deal. We might have to toss in some draft picks. _________________ Internet Argument Resolved |
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Lakesh0wtime Star Player
Joined: 28 Mar 2016 Posts: 5296
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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Aeneas Hunter wrote: | lakersfever714 wrote: | How much can we get back for AD? Gotta trade him when his value is still high assuming it's still high. I want a lot of picks. It'll be hard to compete against the Warriors in the next few years so might as well start the rebuild now. |
We might be able to flip Davis and THT for John Wall. He's a client of Team Lebron, so Rich Paul can probably find a way to get the Rockets to make the deal. We might have to toss in some draft picks. |
Yeah….hell no |
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Outspoken Star Player
Joined: 11 Feb 2015 Posts: 8447
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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Aeneas Hunter wrote: | lakersfever714 wrote: | How much can we get back for AD? Gotta trade him when his value is still high assuming it's still high. I want a lot of picks. It'll be hard to compete against the Warriors in the next few years so might as well start the rebuild now. |
We might be able to flip Davis and THT for John Wall. He's a client of Team Lebron, so Rich Paul can probably find a way to get the Rockets to make the deal. We might have to toss in some draft picks. |
I don't know if klutch players were ever traded for another klutch player. |
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lakerfansd Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 1895
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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Lakesh0wtime wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | lakersfever714 wrote: | How much can we get back for AD? Gotta trade him when his value is still high assuming it's still high. I want a lot of picks. It'll be hard to compete against the Warriors in the next few years so might as well start the rebuild now. |
We might be able to flip Davis and THT for John Wall. He's a client of Team Lebron, so Rich Paul can probably find a way to get the Rockets to make the deal. We might have to toss in some draft picks. |
Yeah….hell no |
I'm pretty sure he was joking...I think |
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Lakesh0wtime Star Player
Joined: 28 Mar 2016 Posts: 5296
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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lakerfansd wrote: | Lakesh0wtime wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | lakersfever714 wrote: | How much can we get back for AD? Gotta trade him when his value is still high assuming it's still high. I want a lot of picks. It'll be hard to compete against the Warriors in the next few years so might as well start the rebuild now. |
We might be able to flip Davis and THT for John Wall. He's a client of Team Lebron, so Rich Paul can probably find a way to get the Rockets to make the deal. We might have to toss in some draft picks. |
Yeah….hell no |
I'm pretty sure he was joking...I think |
Lol yeah pretty sure too. But just in case HELL NO.
Haha |
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