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activeverb
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 Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakesh0wtime wrote: | | lakerfansd wrote: | | Lakesh0wtime wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | How much can we get back for AD? Gotta trade him when his value is still high assuming it's still high. I want a lot of picks. It'll be hard to compete against the Warriors in the next few years so might as well start the rebuild now. |
We might be able to flip Davis and THT for John Wall. He's a client of Team Lebron, so Rich Paul can probably find a way to get the Rockets to make the deal. We might have to toss in some draft picks. |
Yeah….hell no |
I'm pretty sure he was joking...I think |
Lol yeah pretty sure too. But just in case HELL NO.
Haha |
He never jokes.
That's a great small-ball lineup. Maybe we could trade for Kemba Walker and start:
Lebron -- C
Kemba -- PF
Westbrook -- SF
Wall - SG
Rondo -- PG
I see five rings in a row. |
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GOODRICH25
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | GOODRICH25 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | It shouldn’t be about numbers with AD, especially counting numbers. AD put up great numbers in New Orleans and how well did that translate to winning? He put up numbers some times with Lebron out and with a supposed star in Westbrook and that didn’t translate to winning. AD is a top 20 player in the league but like Jokic, plays a position that the league passed by years ago. Not AD’s fault but building around a center who needs wing players to succeed ended with the rise of the Warriors. |
Ok, lets see then what he did in NO:
Rookie year, they finish 27-55, with Davis 23-41
Sophomore, they improve to 34-48, with AD 29-38
3rd year they make playoffs, 45-37, with AD 39-29
They lose to Warriors but youll probably blame the guy that put up 31-11-2-3 on 54%/89%. Because oh well, you cant build around bigs now. It took James 3 seasons to get out of the east, but AD getting it done in the west where you need 55% win percentage (sometimes 60%) to even make the playoffs is him proving you cant build around bigs according to you.
4th year down year, 30-52, but 24-33 with him
5th year 34-48, with AD 31-44, 7 wins short of the playoffs
6th year 48-34, with AD 45-30. Beat the Blazers, lost to the Warriors. Big playoff performances once more
7th year 33-49, with AD 25-31. Another down year after losing Rondo and Boogie.
But that aside, the team has always, every single time, won more when he plays vs when he doesnt. The teams record without him those years was attrocious, even when they made playoffs they had losing records with him out. As for him missing playoffs in a terrible organization in a stacked conference, other players that you think you can build around today have all done it. James, Steph, Kyrie, George, Booker, Westbrook, Wall, Beal etc., all since ADs rookie year. You want to blame AD for not winning in NO, when he in fact won once he left, while the others are fine even tho they keep losing. |
That’s not a valid point, when you build a team around one player of course you will be worse without him (see Lebron and the Lakers this season). NO won a playoff series once as AD’s team. |
The other two series were againat the Warriors. Again, whatever agenda you try to push, he has been on a bad organization in a stacked conference. He never had a legit 2nd option except Boogie one year. AD is elite, not a magician
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | Lakesh0wtime wrote: | | lakerfansd wrote: | | Lakesh0wtime wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | How much can we get back for AD? Gotta trade him when his value is still high assuming it's still high. I want a lot of picks. It'll be hard to compete against the Warriors in the next few years so might as well start the rebuild now. |
We might be able to flip Davis and THT for John Wall. He's a client of Team Lebron, so Rich Paul can probably find a way to get the Rockets to make the deal. We might have to toss in some draft picks. |
Yeah….hell no |
I'm pretty sure he was joking...I think |
Lol yeah pretty sure too. But just in case HELL NO.
Haha |
He never jokes.
That's a great small-ball lineup. Maybe we could trade for Kemba Walker and start:
Lebron -- C
Kemba -- PF
Westbrook -- SF
Wall - SG
Rondo -- PG
I see five rings in a row. |
Kemba? Don't be silly. Plug in James Ennis, and it's all over for the rest of the league.
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Anthony Davis is not going anywhere |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:26 am Post subject: |
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I question how deep Lebron's power actually goes.
Why is that Lebron's guy was not chosen as Lakers HC? I mean we do whatever Klutch says, right? But from what I gather we went to Monty, Lue and Vogel in that order. Monty knew he had 5 year deal offers and Lue knew eventually the same for himself.
Was Vogel ever Team Lebron's choice? Of course not. In fact, if I had to guess. That was Rambis/Phil. Recall reading some articles way back in the day how Vogel ran some Triangle sets in Indiana with BShaw, and that when Phil was in NY, he strongly considered Vogel to be coach. If I had to guess, Vogel influence is from Rambis. Rambo also has influence on the roster.
If team Lebron is running the team, no way Vogel is the head coach. The head coach was going to be Lue first and foremost on a 5 year deal.
In addition, we sent out two Klutch guys in KCP and Trez, for a non-Klutch guy in Westbrook. I agree that team Lebron has major influence. But I don't think he has any authority over final calls. There's no way some of the moves that have happened over the last few years, happen, if team Lebron is running the show to the extent that some think. He has major influence, yes. However in the end all the decisions are made by Rob/Rambis/Jeanie and that circle, IMO. I think they value keeping Bron happy, because that's just how it works in this league. Go ask Portland how good it is when you piss off your superstar. |
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JUST-MING
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lakersfever714
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:40 am Post subject: |
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They still own our '22 and '24 first rounders and 23' and '25 swap. How is Griffin responsible for Zion being 300 lbs? I'm pretty sure Zion was the consensus #1 pick at the time.
Nobody wants to play for a small market team like the Pelicans. The Lakers have Lebron, AD and the Laker brand. Everyone wants to play for them. This offseason, they actually had a lot of options to choose from but so far, it looks like they picked the wrong options. To be honest, I'd rather have Griffin over Pelinka because it seems like Pelinka is using the Lakers as his training ground. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: |
They still own our '22 and '24 first rounders and 23' and '25 swap. How is Griffin responsible for Zion being 300 lbs? I'm pretty sure Zion was the consensus #1 pick at the time.
Nobody wants to play for a small market team like the Pelicans. The Lakers have Lebron, AD and the Laker brand. Everyone wants to play for them. This offseason, they actually had a lot of options to choose from but so far, it looks like they picked the wrong options. To be honest, I'd rather have Griffin over Pelinka because it seems like Pelinka is using the Lakers as his training ground. |
I'm not sure whether Griffin is a good GM, but the key point is that it is unrealistic to compare small market GMs to large market GMs. The options are different, and the money is different. Just imagine if the Pelicans' owner told Griffin that he was limited to $46M in luxury tax. Griffin would faint.
As an aside, Mitch Kupchak is quietly showing his capabilities in Charlotte. The Hornets aren't a contender, but I can't remember them ever having this much talent. (I mean the Bobcats/Hornets franchise, not the Hornets/Pelicans franchise.) Good job, Mitch.
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LakersARETheGOAT
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: |
They still own our '22 and '24 first rounders and 23' and '25 swap. How is Griffin responsible for Zion being 300 lbs? I'm pretty sure Zion was the consensus #1 pick at the time.
Nobody wants to play for a small market team like the Pelicans. The Lakers have Lebron, AD and the Laker brand. Everyone wants to play for them. This offseason, they actually had a lot of options to choose from but so far, it looks like they picked the wrong options. To be honest, I'd rather have Griffin over Pelinka because it seems like Pelinka is using the Lakers as his training ground. |
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Laker's Fan
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:30 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, Mitch has been killing it. Kind of think his strengths (and weaknesses) lend to his being a better small market GM, where some of the tomfoolery isn’t as important (not sure how much Charlotte can really benefit from tampering).
On the Pelicans, Griff started with Davis, Jrue and #1 in the Zion draft. Not jiving with the hard luck small market narrative. Milwaukee, San Antonio, Utah, Memphis, Indiana, Charlotte have all put quality teams on the floor with far less player capital. Griff botched the #4 pick and Lonzo. They didn’t manage the relationship with Ingram (who they took to rFA) or Hart, who they basically signed to trade. Ownership is wealthy but doesn’t invest in baseline things. It isn’t a market driven outcome.
LFever, there’s no swap in 2025. It’s the 2022 pick outright, a 2023 swap (likely worthless), and either the 2024 or 2025 pick. Two picks and a low rent swap. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: |
They still own our '22 and '24 first rounders and 23' and '25 swap. How is Griffin responsible for Zion being 300 lbs? I'm pretty sure Zion was the consensus #1 pick at the time.
Nobody wants to play for a small market team like the Pelicans. The Lakers have Lebron, AD and the Laker brand. Everyone wants to play for them. This offseason, they actually had a lot of options to choose from but so far, it looks like they picked the wrong options. To be honest, I'd rather have Griffin over Pelinka because it seems like Pelinka is using the Lakers as his training ground. |
Everyone does not want to play for the Lakers, many have gone elsewhere.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| Laker's Fan wrote: | Yeah, Mitch has been killing it. Kind of think his strengths (and weaknesses) lend to his being a better small market GM, where some of the tomfoolery isn’t as important (not sure how much Charlotte can really benefit from tampering).
On the Pelicans, Griff started with Davis, Jrue and #1 in the Zion draft. Not jiving with the hard luck small market narrative. Milwaukee, San Antonio, Utah, Memphis, Indiana, Charlotte have all put quality teams on the floor with far less player capital. Griff botched the #4 pick and Lonzo. They didn’t manage the relationship with Ingram (who they took to rFA) or Hart, who they basically signed to trade. Ownership is wealthy but doesn’t invest in baseline things. It isn’t a market driven outcome.
LFever, there’s no swap in 2025. It’s the 2022 pick outright, a 2023 swap (likely worthless), and either the 2024 or 2025 pick. Two picks and a low rent swap. |
Mitchell’s 4 titles with the Lakers showed that he could succeed in a large market.
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SGV-Laker fan
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | I question how deep Lebron's power actually goes.
Why is that Lebron's guy was not chosen as Lakers HC? I mean we do whatever Klutch says, right? But from what I gather we went to Monty, Lue and Vogel in that order. Monty knew he had 5 year deal offers and Lue knew eventually the same for himself.
Was Vogel ever Team Lebron's choice? Of course not. In fact, if I had to guess. That was Rambis/Phil. Recall reading some articles way back in the day how Vogel ran some Triangle sets in Indiana with BShaw, and that when Phil was in NY, he strongly considered Vogel to be coach. If I had to guess, Vogel influence is from Rambis. Rambo also has influence on the roster.
If team Lebron is running the team, no way Vogel is the head coach. The head coach was going to be Lue first and foremost on a 5 year deal.
In addition, we sent out two Klutch guys in KCP and Trez, for a non-Klutch guy in Westbrook. I agree that team Lebron has major influence. But I don't think he has any authority over final calls. There's no way some of the moves that have happened over the last few years, happen, if team Lebron is running the show to the extent that some think. He has major influence, yes. However in the end all the decisions are made by Rob/Rambis/Jeanie and that circle, IMO. I think they value keeping Bron happy, because that's just how it works in this league. Go ask Portland how good it is when you piss off your superstar. |
conspiracist part of me always believe there are two voices within Laker organization: 1. Jeannie Buss, Phil (behind the scene), Rambis, and other Laker old guards. 2. LeBron and Klutch. Jeannie Buss needs LeBron to sell tickets, that's why they caved into Klutch on some player movements, but like typical Buss tradition, they can never go ALL IN on one direction. imo, you either go all in on the Klutch train, or get rid of LeBron and Klutch and start rebuild. |
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BILBJH
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| levon wrote: | | Lakesh0wtime wrote: | | BILBJH wrote: | I could see Luka carrying AD to a title.
A young LBJ or CP3...
The problem is there are usually very few players of that caliber available.
Giannis won a title with Jrue and Khris.
AD couldn't get past the first round with Jrue, Rondo, Mirotic...
So if maybe if Cuban dies and his wife has no interest in basketball I suppose we have a chance of acquiring him. |
Are holiday, rondo, and mirotic supposed to be a playoff caliber supporting cast?
He also lost to the Warriors who were the best the team in the nba. Davis went off in those series.
The other time he played the Blazers and they swept them. Then played the Warriors again in the second round. |
intellectual dishonesty is the norm |
Kevin Garnett won 51 games with Wally Szcerbiak and Troy Hudson.
He won 58 games with old versions of Sprewell and Sam Cassell.
He got to the WCF and took two games off of the Kobe/Shaq/Malone/Payton superteam.
Can you really visualize AD doing this?
I keep waiting for AD to carry a team like Giannis or KG since we gave up so much to acquire him.
If we just signed him then I wouldn't keep harping on this so much. The dude tries but he just isn't who everyone thought he was anymore than Pau could lead us without Kobe.
But sure, I'm the one who's being dishonest.
We paid the price for a player who could lead us when LBJ is hurt or retired... if we wanted a good player who puts up numbers but doesn't lead the team anywhere then we might as well have stuck with Ingram and kept all the other assets. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:50 am Post subject: |
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And they will most likely be with the Lakers on the outside looking in.
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: |
And they will most likely be with the Lakers on the outside looking in. |
Pelicans are rebuilding they have no pressure to deliver this season, Lakers are a lot better then a play in team. |
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LGFan
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| Pacers rebuilding. Would love to have caris |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| BILBJH wrote: | Kevin Garnett won 51 games with Wally Szcerbiak and Troy Hudson.
He won 58 games with old versions of Sprewell and Sam Cassell.
He got to the WCF and took two games off of the Kobe/Shaq/Malone/Payton superteam.
Can you really visualize AD doing this? |
Davis is not an alpha type. I see a lot of people getting frustrated with him because he isn't something that he never was. But really, there aren't a lot of alpha types in the NBA who are actually good enough to back it up. The guys who combine the personality and the talent are the true franchise superstars.
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ThePageDude
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: |
<snip>
He never jokes.
That's a great small-ball lineup. Maybe we could trade for Kemba Walker and start:
Lebron -- C
Kemba -- PF
Westbrook -- SF
Wall - SG
Rondo -- PG
I see five rings in a row. |
We need to ask vasashi how we can lock Wall in to long-term follow-on contract so we're sure he sticks around for those 5 years - I say make it a 6 year max deal just to be on the safe side. |
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ThePageDude
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Laker's Fan wrote: | Yeah, Mitch has been killing it. Kind of think his strengths (and weaknesses) lend to his being a better small market GM, where some of the tomfoolery isn’t as important (not sure how much Charlotte can really benefit from tampering).
On the Pelicans, Griff started with Davis, Jrue and #1 in the Zion draft. Not jiving with the hard luck small market narrative. Milwaukee, San Antonio, Utah, Memphis, Indiana, Charlotte have all put quality teams on the floor with far less player capital. Griff botched the #4 pick and Lonzo. They didn’t manage the relationship with Ingram (who they took to rFA) or Hart, who they basically signed to trade. Ownership is wealthy but doesn’t invest in baseline things. It isn’t a market driven outcome.
LFever, there’s no swap in 2025. It’s the 2022 pick outright, a 2023 swap (likely worthless), and either the 2024 or 2025 pick. Two picks and a low rent swap. |
Mitchell’s 4 titles with the Lakers showed that he could succeed in a large market. |
Sure but the OP has a point - Mitch didn't last, was endlessly critiqued for being "too conservative" .. "asleep at the wheel Mitch" etc. |
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lakersfever714
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: |
They still own our '22 and '24 first rounders and 23' and '25 swap. How is Griffin responsible for Zion being 300 lbs? I'm pretty sure Zion was the consensus #1 pick at the time.
Nobody wants to play for a small market team like the Pelicans. The Lakers have Lebron, AD and the Laker brand. Everyone wants to play for them. This offseason, they actually had a lot of options to choose from but so far, it looks like they picked the wrong options. To be honest, I'd rather have Griffin over Pelinka because it seems like Pelinka is using the Lakers as his training ground. |
I'm not sure whether Griffin is a good GM, but the key point is that it is unrealistic to compare small market GMs to large market GMs. The options are different, and the money is different. Just imagine if the Pelicans' owner told Griffin that he was limited to $46M in luxury tax. Griffin would faint.
As an aside, Mitch Kupchak is quietly showing his capabilities in Charlotte. The Hornets aren't a contender, but I can't remember them ever having this much talent. (I mean the Bobcats/Hornets franchise, not the Hornets/Pelicans franchise.) Good job, Mitch. |
Jeanie got rid of the two men mainly responsible for the Lakers success the past two decades and replaced them with a couple of rookies who use the Lakers as their training facility. Considering how consistently bad the Hornets have been, if they'd just make the ECF, Jeanie should fire herself. |
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Username
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: |
They still own our '22 and '24 first rounders and 23' and '25 swap. How is Griffin responsible for Zion being 300 lbs? I'm pretty sure Zion was the consensus #1 pick at the time.
Nobody wants to play for a small market team like the Pelicans. The Lakers have Lebron, AD and the Laker brand. Everyone wants to play for them. This offseason, they actually had a lot of options to choose from but so far, it looks like they picked the wrong options. To be honest, I'd rather have Griffin over Pelinka because it seems like Pelinka is using the Lakers as his training ground. |
I'm not sure whether Griffin is a good GM, but the key point is that it is unrealistic to compare small market GMs to large market GMs. The options are different, and the money is different. Just imagine if the Pelicans' owner told Griffin that he was limited to $46M in luxury tax. Griffin would faint.
As an aside, Mitch Kupchak is quietly showing his capabilities in Charlotte. The Hornets aren't a contender, but I can't remember them ever having this much talent. (I mean the Bobcats/Hornets franchise, not the Hornets/Pelicans franchise.) Good job, Mitch. |
Jeanie got rid of the two men mainly responsible for the Lakers success the past two decades and replaced them with a couple of rookies who use the Lakers as their training facility. Considering how consistently bad the Hornets have been, if they'd just make the ECF, Jeanie should fire herself. |
Were you asleep for the world championship those rookies won last year? |
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lakersfever714
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| Username wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: |
They still own our '22 and '24 first rounders and 23' and '25 swap. How is Griffin responsible for Zion being 300 lbs? I'm pretty sure Zion was the consensus #1 pick at the time.
Nobody wants to play for a small market team like the Pelicans. The Lakers have Lebron, AD and the Laker brand. Everyone wants to play for them. This offseason, they actually had a lot of options to choose from but so far, it looks like they picked the wrong options. To be honest, I'd rather have Griffin over Pelinka because it seems like Pelinka is using the Lakers as his training ground. |
I'm not sure whether Griffin is a good GM, but the key point is that it is unrealistic to compare small market GMs to large market GMs. The options are different, and the money is different. Just imagine if the Pelicans' owner told Griffin that he was limited to $46M in luxury tax. Griffin would faint.
As an aside, Mitch Kupchak is quietly showing his capabilities in Charlotte. The Hornets aren't a contender, but I can't remember them ever having this much talent. (I mean the Bobcats/Hornets franchise, not the Hornets/Pelicans franchise.) Good job, Mitch. |
Jeanie got rid of the two men mainly responsible for the Lakers success the past two decades and replaced them with a couple of rookies who use the Lakers as their training facility. Considering how consistently bad the Hornets have been, if they'd just make the ECF, Jeanie should fire herself. |
Were you asleep for the world championship those rookies won last year? |
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while. Don't just look at stats by its face value.
If Lebron was mainly responsible for our latest championship and Rob and Jeanie had nothing to do with bringing him here, then how can you credit those two for our latest championship? |
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Username
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | | Username wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: |
They still own our '22 and '24 first rounders and 23' and '25 swap. How is Griffin responsible for Zion being 300 lbs? I'm pretty sure Zion was the consensus #1 pick at the time.
Nobody wants to play for a small market team like the Pelicans. The Lakers have Lebron, AD and the Laker brand. Everyone wants to play for them. This offseason, they actually had a lot of options to choose from but so far, it looks like they picked the wrong options. To be honest, I'd rather have Griffin over Pelinka because it seems like Pelinka is using the Lakers as his training ground. |
I'm not sure whether Griffin is a good GM, but the key point is that it is unrealistic to compare small market GMs to large market GMs. The options are different, and the money is different. Just imagine if the Pelicans' owner told Griffin that he was limited to $46M in luxury tax. Griffin would faint.
As an aside, Mitch Kupchak is quietly showing his capabilities in Charlotte. The Hornets aren't a contender, but I can't remember them ever having this much talent. (I mean the Bobcats/Hornets franchise, not the Hornets/Pelicans franchise.) Good job, Mitch. |
Jeanie got rid of the two men mainly responsible for the Lakers success the past two decades and replaced them with a couple of rookies who use the Lakers as their training facility. Considering how consistently bad the Hornets have been, if they'd just make the ECF, Jeanie should fire herself. |
Were you asleep for the world championship those rookies won last year? |
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while. Don't just look at stats by its face value.
If Lebron was mainly responsible for our latest championship and Rob and Jeanie had nothing to do with bringing him here, then how can you credit those two for our latest championship? |
Rob's relationship with Rich Paul is what fostered the request for Magic (whom Jeanie hired) to go to LeBron's house for the all-hands pitch that ultimately got LeBron to agree to sign.
That same relationship also got Anthony Davis.
Sounds like all three had plenty to do with getting him to LA. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:35 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | | Jeanie got rid of the two men mainly responsible for the Lakers success the past two decades and replaced them with a couple of rookies who use the Lakers as their training facility. Considering how consistently bad the Hornets have been, if they'd just make the ECF, Jeanie should fire herself. |
The decision to get rid of Mitch and Jim has been talked to death. Mitch and Jim got caught up in Buss family politics, but they hadn't exactly been displayed brilliance in their decisions. It's a fair criticism that Jeanie hasn't brought in experienced personnel to replace them, but that's been talked to death, too.
Laker's Fan makes a fair point that Mitch is probably better suited for a smaller market where he doesn't have to deal with all of the tomfoolery. In a lot of ways, the job as GM of the Lakers is what the Brits call "a poisoned chalice." It's a prestigious, high-profile job, but you will constantly be criticized if the team isn't winning titles. If something had gone wrong and we hadn't won the bubble title, Pelinka would be getting attacked far worse than he is now, and he might have been fired. As it stands, the goodwill from the bubble title is wearing off fairly quickly.
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