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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:30 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
We had a successful team last year, and we had a successful team this year before Lebron and AD got hurt.

I am different than most people in that I found the overall moves lateral. We changed the team, but I don't know if this version would have been better, worse, or the same without the health issues.

DS reverted to the mean and had a pretty typical, bottom-tier season for a starting point guard. I think Harrell gets a worse wrap than he deserves.


I'm not sure that lateral is the right word, but it's something like that. We changed the way that the team was going to function. We didn't make like-for-like changes. We won the bubble title without a traditional point guard, but then we brought in Schroder. We had two traditional centers, but we didn't use them much during the playoff run. We brought in an undersized center for the bench, and started a aging traditional center who mostly shoots threes at this point in his career. We replaced one aging three point shooter on the perimeter with another.

None of these changes moved the needle on a team dominated by Lebron and Davis, but it was never clear to me how these pieces were supposed to fit. The injuries made it a moot point, but I get the impression that the team chemistry was less than ideal, especially after we added Drummond to the mix.
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leking006
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:33 pm    Post subject:

Kuzma, DS, Trezz for Simmons and Curry. Is this possible?
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:44 pm    Post subject:

leking006 wrote:
Kuzma, DS, Trezz for Simmons and Curry. Is this possible?


1 is ufa and other has a PO
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:44 pm    Post subject:

leking006 wrote:
Kuzma, DS, Trezz for Simmons and Curry. Is this possible?


If you get rid of Curry, maybe.

Even with a fire sale for Simmons, it would take most of the Lakers assets to acquire him. Philly isn't throwing in another guy would help tremendously who also happens to be exactly what they need surrounding Embiid.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:03 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
CRoost wrote:
MJST wrote:
CRoost wrote:

Lol, we won championship without those 2 players..


and other teams got better, and had we stayed the same we'd have gotten worse.

Again, you can't use the whole "Well we did it in the bubble."

LOOK at what other teams have done in terms of getting better. Had we ran it back with the same roster, we'd have stayed the same defensively and gotten worse offensively. Particularly considering the lack of turnaround time for LBJ and AD, you think we'd have done them a service by forcing more offensive responsibility on them?

Imagine if you're depending on Caruso, Rondo, Dwight and McGee for your offense instead of Schroeder and Harrell. We wouldn't have been the 22nd ranked offensive team this year, we'd have been closer to the 25th or 27th and it would have looked far worse.

Do you honestly think with the lack of turnaround that giving more offensive responsibility to LeBron and AD was the best way to go because of the lack of offense we'd be getting from Caruso, Rondo, Dwight and McGee?

Think about it for a moment before you go "lol it worked in the bubble we'd have been just fine this year!"


You’re talking on Hypotheticals.


It's not hypothetical to actually acknowledge we'd have been a worse offensive team if we were depending on Caruso, McGee, Dwight, Rondo for offense. Nor that it would have put even more pressure on AD and LeBron after a fast turnaround from last season.

That's not hypothetical, that's obvious.

Also "WE DONT CATER TO ROLE PLAYERS"

Well those "role players' come in handy when you're trying to take pressure off LeBron and AD. Stop trying to act like they can be the 'do everything'. They need solid offensive help alongside them. Being the 1st ranked defensive team means little when we're the 27th ranked offense and need to run LeBron and AD further into the ground because we don't have anyone else capable of getting their own shot. Think. Stop being prideful, and actually realize that.

LeBron's about to be 37, AD's health is usually in question. The LAST thing we need is making stupid moves that's going to increase the offensive load on either of them. the best thing we could do this off-season is keep Schroeder and Harrell and move forward from there.

At worst we have additional offensive options while still being the best defensive team in the league. At best we can swing them for another star.

But NOT having them, and having to try to replace their production with barely any money to play with in the off-season is not just a stupid move, it's detrimental to our two stars.


Lol those role players were never gonna be winning type of players. If we can take their salary assets as trade exemption, I rather have that. And championship team should never be broke apart especially for role players that just does not fit. The lack of camaraderie and lack of IQ is apparent so the chemistry was never there .

Knowing what happened, I rather have us missing the playoff then cater to ROLE PLAYER that failed to step up .

I really hope that Lakers will find better players that fit and optimized Lebron and AD.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:08 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
activeverb wrote:
We had a successful team last year, and we had a successful team this year before Lebron and AD got hurt.

I am different than most people in that I found the overall moves lateral. We changed the team, but I don't know if this version would have been better, worse, or the same without the health issues.

DS reverted to the mean and had a pretty typical, bottom-tier season for a starting point guard. I think Harrell gets a worse wrap than he deserves.


I'm not sure that lateral is the right word, but it's something like that. We changed the way that the team was going to function. We didn't make like-for-like changes. We won the bubble title without a traditional point guard, but then we brought in Schroder. We had two traditional centers, but we didn't use them much during the playoff run. We brought in an undersized center for the bench, and started a aging traditional center who mostly shoots threes at this point in his career. We replaced one aging three point shooter on the perimeter with another.

None of these changes moved the needle on a team dominated by Lebron and Davis, but it was never clear to me how these pieces were supposed to fit. The injuries made it a moot point, but I get the impression that the team chemistry was less than ideal, especially after we added Drummond to the mix.


My guess is the FO was hoping DS would repeat his breakthrough performance from the year before, and they would have a younger point guard who was viable for the rest of the Lebron years. But he regressed to the mean.

Harrell may have just been opportunistic -- in a tight salary cap year, the FO might have thought getting the 6th man of the year at the MLE was a big bargain.

Drummond was just a bargain buyout pickup. I imagine the Lakers weren't thinking about fit, because on paper he was so much better than any alternatives.

I don't get the sense there was a firm strategy behind all the pieces; more of a "let's cobble this together and see how it works out."

I think the reality is if you have a healthy Lebron and AD you can cobble together a lot of players around them and have a good team. That said, it's obvious Harrell and DS aren't ideal fits with them.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:12 pm    Post subject:

RG73 wrote:
leking006 wrote:
Kuzma, DS, Trezz for Simmons and Curry. Is this possible?


If you get rid of Curry, maybe.

Even with a fire sale for Simmons, it would take most of the Lakers assets to acquire him. Philly isn't throwing in another guy would help tremendously who also happens to be exactly what they need surrounding Embiid.


Trezz might want to go to Philly and reunite with Tobias and Doc. So he might ok with the trade. Dwight will not re-sign with Philly if Harrell will go there, he might go back to the Lakers.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:25 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
activeverb wrote:
MJST wrote:

Its more so the reality that you got a 15/10 guy off the bench that didn't cause us to become a bad defensive team (we were the best in the league) but people focused on that primarily as if we needed more defense, less offense, when we were one of the worst offensive teams in the league. And would have been even worse if we didn't have Schroeder and Harrell able to get their own shot.


He was actually a 14/6 guy. He has averaged 15 or more in 2 of 6 seasons, but his career high in rebounding is 7.1 rpg.


14/6 career guy whom is an 18/7 guy in a 6th man role.

So in essence, still very valuable and still the best backup center currently in the NBA.


And despite all of the Laker injuries, the Lakers finished 4th in total rebounding and 2nd in offensive rebounding.

This was not the problem.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:27 pm    Post subject:

leking006 wrote:
RG73 wrote:
leking006 wrote:
Kuzma, DS, Trezz for Simmons and Curry. Is this possible?


If you get rid of Curry, maybe.

Even with a fire sale for Simmons, it would take most of the Lakers assets to acquire him. Philly isn't throwing in another guy would help tremendously who also happens to be exactly what they need surrounding Embiid.


Trezz might want to go to Philly and reunite with Tobias and Doc. So he might ok with the trade. Dwight will not re-sign with Philly if Harrell will go there, he might go back to the Lakers.


I have a hard time imagining that Kuzma, DS, and Trez will be the best offer that the 76ers get for Simmons.

My money is if they made a trade relatively quick the central guy they'll get is CJ McCollum, Malcolm Brogdon, or Pascal Siakam.

If they're patient, they might even do better.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:28 pm    Post subject:

LGFan wrote:
jankobe wrote:
How much is Ben Simmons owed?

I like Westbrook or Lillard better than him if we consider those out going players the Lakers will/can offer for Ben.


next 4 years Ben is owed:
$33,003,936
$35,448,672
$37,893,408
$40,338,144

Hard Pass on Ben Mafia
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leking006
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:36 pm    Post subject:

btw if DS will be sign and trade, will the traded guy will not affect the salary cap too because DS was sign via bird?
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:39 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
activeverb wrote:
MJST wrote:

Its more so the reality that you got a 15/10 guy off the bench that didn't cause us to become a bad defensive team (we were the best in the league) but people focused on that primarily as if we needed more defense, less offense, when we were one of the worst offensive teams in the league. And would have been even worse if we didn't have Schroeder and Harrell able to get their own shot.


He was actually a 14/6 guy. He has averaged 15 or more in 2 of 6 seasons, but his career high in rebounding is 7.1 rpg.


14/6 career guy whom is an 18/7 guy in a 6th man role.

So in essence, still very valuable and still the best backup center currently in the NBA.


He's a good player. How good he is come playoff time is a question. Whether he was the best use of our resources is another question.

My preference would have been to spend the MLE on Ibaka if we could have gotten him. I can also see the case for throwing the money at Derrick Rose or Rondo.

In any case, that's all moot at this point. We'll see whether he opts in. And if he does opt in, we'll see if the Lakers trade him.

My guess is, one way or the other, he won't be on the Lakers next year.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:41 pm    Post subject:

leking006 wrote:
btw if DS will be sign and trade, will the traded guy will not affect the salary cap too because DS was sign via bird?


I'm not sure what you are asking. But if you question is if we trade DS will the player(s) we acquire count against the salary cap -- yup.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:48 pm    Post subject:

Montrezl's Free Agent Options (I think this is accurate )

Staying with the Lakers

1. Opt-in and play out the year with the Lakers.
Given how things ended this season and the obvious fit issues, this seems fairly unlikely.

2. Opt-out and re-sign multi year deal wit the Lakers
Beyond the fit issues, the Lakers would be limited to using non-bird rights (20% raise). The deal would max out at one of 2-year $22.8M, 3-years $35M or 4-years $48m. The Lakers would obviously want to ensure Trez didn't have an implied no-trade clause, so no 1+1s on the 2-year deal. If they did give Trez such a deal and he consented to a trade, his Early Bird rights would not go with him which defeats the purpose (unless it was a player option that he first picked up. But then he's on a cheap 2-year deal which shouldn't interest him).

Ending up on Another Team

3. Opt-out and sign elsewhere as a free agent
Almost certainly his plan when he signed the 1+1 with the Lakers. But things didn't go great in LA and he might have a soft free agent market as a result. Trez would need to find a team with significant cap room interested in making him a solid offer. Important to note, changing teams via free agency resets your bird clock, which you generally don't want to do two years in a row. So offers of the Full Mid-Level are worse than several other options.

4. Opt-out and S&T to another team.
The Lakers would be using non-bird rights and as such the deal would have to be either 3-years $35M or 4-years $48m. The other team would be hard capped and Trez would be selling low while taking the longest to get back into free agency.

5. Opt-in and get traded
Perhaps the biggest risk/reward approach. Trez would be playing on a 1-year $9.7m deal at the end of which he would have Early Bird rights. That would allow him to test free agency in a year, or resign with his current team for up to 4-years $76m (175% of prior deal w/ 8% raises). His ideal destination would be a team fighting for the playoffs that lacked significant cap room in 2022, making his EB rights valuable to them (much like Schroder's situation with the Lakers). You can imagine that if this is the chosen route, LA and Klutch would find a desirable situation for Trez.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:53 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
MJST wrote:
activeverb wrote:
MJST wrote:

Its more so the reality that you got a 15/10 guy off the bench that didn't cause us to become a bad defensive team (we were the best in the league) but people focused on that primarily as if we needed more defense, less offense, when we were one of the worst offensive teams in the league. And would have been even worse if we didn't have Schroeder and Harrell able to get their own shot.


He was actually a 14/6 guy. He has averaged 15 or more in 2 of 6 seasons, but his career high in rebounding is 7.1 rpg.


14/6 career guy whom is an 18/7 guy in a 6th man role.

So in essence, still very valuable and still the best backup center currently in the NBA.


And despite all of the Laker injuries, the Lakers finished 4th in total rebounding and 2nd in offensive rebounding.

This was not the problem.


The changes in the NBA game, and the explosion of 3-point shooting, have really diminished the perceived value of rebounders who don't stray far from the rim.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:58 pm    Post subject:

I think we should move on from the Ben Simmons talk.

Lakers don’t need him. Not worth the $30+ mill a year.
He doesn’t really give us what we need.

Spend the money on shooters.

I mean, it would be idiotic to focus on Simmons and end up losing say 3-4 players and still have no shooters…

Right? Or are some of you seeing something that I am not seeing?
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:10 pm    Post subject:

anth2000 wrote:
I think we should move on from the Ben Simmons talk.

Lakers don’t need him. Not worth the $30+ mill a year.
He doesn’t really give us what we need.

Spend the money on shooters.

I mean, it would be idiotic to focus on Simmons and end up losing say 3-4 players and still have no shooters…

Right? Or are some of you seeing something that I am not seeing?


If you want to move on from the Ben Simmons talk, it probably isn't a great idea to put up a post about Ben Simmons and ask people to comment on him.

Just sayin'
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:13 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
anth2000 wrote:
I think we should move on from the Ben Simmons talk.

Lakers don’t need him. Not worth the $30+ mill a year.
He doesn’t really give us what we need.

Spend the money on shooters.

I mean, it would be idiotic to focus on Simmons and end up losing say 3-4 players and still have no shooters…

Right? Or are some of you seeing something that I am not seeing?


If you want to move on from the Ben Simmons talk, it probably isn't a great idea to put up a post about Ben Simmons and ask people to comment on him.

Just sayin'


Yep, you’re right. I just mean, he keeps coming up and probably because of everyone bagging on the dude and folks seeing him exiting philly ASAP. I just want this Lakers FO to focus on the right players to fix the deficiencies on this squad. Just saying.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:19 pm    Post subject:

^Name them.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:20 pm    Post subject:

anth2000 wrote:
I think we should move on from the Ben Simmons talk.

Lakers don’t need him. Not worth the $30+ mill a year.
He doesn’t really give us what we need.

Spend the money on shooters.

I mean, it would be idiotic to focus on Simmons and end up losing say 3-4 players and still have no shooters…

Right? Or are some of you seeing something that I am not seeing?


its offseason and if the FO/Bron thinks he can play exclusively at center spot we should definitely trade for whatever average at best assets we have
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:27 pm    Post subject:

LGFan wrote:
anth2000 wrote:
I think we should move on from the Ben Simmons talk.

Lakers don’t need him. Not worth the $30+ mill a year.
He doesn’t really give us what we need.

Spend the money on shooters.

I mean, it would be idiotic to focus on Simmons and end up losing say 3-4 players and still have no shooters…

Right? Or are some of you seeing something that I am not seeing?


its offseason and if the FO/Bron thinks he can play exclusively at center spot we should definitely trade for whatever average at best assets we have


Agreed
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:58 pm    Post subject:

AD23 wrote:
governator wrote:
How do we convince D.Rose, Melo and Ariza to take the minimums, c’mon RP!!!


DO IT FOR KOBE!


For real, just bring in guys that want to compete, be champions, and understand the team concept......

Vogel can put together a championship defense if has guys that are willing to adopt the mindset
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:10 pm    Post subject:

Ben Simmons and Dwight?


https://mobile.twitter.com/Ralph_MasonJr/status/1407177219315621888


Last edited by Inspector Gadget on Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:10 pm    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
Daryl Morey likes talent on cheap contracts. We have that in spades. Caldwell-Pope at $13 million. Kuzma at $13 million. Harrell at $9 million. Gasol at $2 million. Those were his trademark in Houston prior to trying to acquire every available all-star on the market.


That's when he was working for owners that didn't like to spend $$.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:18 pm    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
Ben Simmons and Dwight?


https://mobile.twitter.com/Ralph_MasonJr/status/1407177219315621888


Nope. But here's a fun one 😂

Quote:
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