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ocho
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 9:12 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
And then we fast forward to this year and we are down to...just LBJ/AD. Crazy.


You could field a complete team of just players from the 2022 NBA Playoffs that the Lakers had but lost for absolutely nothing:

PG: Alex Caruso
SG: Wes Matthews
SF: Reggie Bullock
PF: Javale McGee
C: Brook Lopez

Bench:
Andre Drummond
Gary Payton II



We have made some poor player decisions, but in a vacuum, I don't think this list is particularly significant.

A lot of those guys have been on multiple teams between the time they were with us and their current teams, and some of them floundered on those teams until they found a situation that worked for them.

Some of those guys we acquired as cheap free agents for one season, and then they left, so there wasn't really much we could do.

Some of those guys weren't that good when they were with us, and we didn't want them.


I don't think that's the point. First of all, it's a list that only includes players currently in the playoffs. The list gets bigger when you start to factor all the other players we dumped for nothing (Julius Randle, Dennis Shroeder, Damian Jones, Mike Muscala, etc). The point is these guys are all assets of varying degrees. If the goal is to maximize any and all assets you have, it's not great to have a long list of players that are contributing to winning playoff teams that you just dumped with nothing to show for it. So yeah letting go of Wes Matthews in and of itself isn't the end of the world (though we sure could have used him this year) these mistakes start to add up and the smarter teams (aka the ones that are still playing) take advantage of them.
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 9:16 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
activeverb wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
And then we fast forward to this year and we are down to...just LBJ/AD. Crazy.


You could field a complete team of just players from the 2022 NBA Playoffs that the Lakers had but lost for absolutely nothing:

PG: Alex Caruso
SG: Wes Matthews
SF: Reggie Bullock
PF: Javale McGee
C: Brook Lopez

Bench:
Andre Drummond
Gary Payton II



We have made some poor player decisions, but in a vacuum, I don't think this list is particularly significant.

A lot of those guys have been on multiple teams between the time they were with us and their current teams, and some of them floundered on those teams until they found a situation that worked for them.

Some of those guys we acquired as cheap free agents for one season, and then they left, so there wasn't really much we could do.

Some of those guys weren't that good when they were with us, and we didn't want them.


I don't think that's the point. First of all, it's a list that only includes players currently in the playoffs. The list gets bigger when you start to factor all the other players we dumped for nothing (Julius Randle, Dennis Shroeder, Damian Jones, Mike Muscala, etc). The point is these guys are all assets of varying degrees. If the goal is to maximize any and all assets you have, it's not great to have a long list of players that are contributing to winning playoff teams that you just dumped with nothing to show for it. So yeah letting go of Wes Matthews in and of itself isn't the end of the world (though we sure could have used him this year) these mistakes start to add up and the smarter teams (aka the ones that are still playing) take advantage of them.



As I said, I agree the Lakers have made some poor player decisions, but this particular list of players makes me shrug as examples of poor asset management. You seem to think the list says something more than I do, so to each their own.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 9:17 am    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
epic_ wrote:
Laker4lifer4real wrote:
Westbrook's turnovers hurt us more than roster turnover lol.


Lol nice one.
Not facts, but a good burn. 😀


When you realize Lebron averages just as many turnovers as Russell.


Lol wut?

Russ average 3.8 turnovers a game.

Luka (4.5)
PG (4.1)
Trae (4.0)
Jokic (3.8)
LBJ (3.5)
KD (3.5)
Ja (3.4)
Giannis (3.3).

One of these is not like the others.
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LBJ missed games:
20-21: 27/72 (37.5% missed)
21-22: 26/82 (31% missed)

AD missed games:
20-21: 36/72 (50% missed)
21-22: 40/82 (48% missed)

Lakers wins and win%:
20-21: 42-30 (58% win)
21-22: 33-49 (40% win)
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JUST-MING
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 9:22 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
2019 Lakers
lottery

PG Lonzo Ball (30 Min), Rajon Rondo (30 Min), Alex Caruso (21 Min)
SG Brandon Ingram (34 Min), Kentavious Caldwell-Pope (25 Min)
SF Lebron James (35 Min), Lance Stevenson (16 Min)
PF Kyle Kuzma (33 Min), Josh Hart (26 Min), Michael Beasley (10 Min)
C Javale Mcgee (22 Min), Ivica Zubac (16 Min), Tyson Chandler (16 Min)

2020 Lakers
bubble title

PG Avery Bradley (24 Min), Rajon Rondo (21 Min), Alex Caruso (18 Min)
SG Danny Green (25 Min), Kentavious Caldwell-Pope (26 Min), Talen Horton Tucker (14 Min)
SF Lebron James (35 Min), Jared Dudley
PF Anthony Davis (35 Min), Kyle Kuzma (25 Min), Markieff Morris (14 Min)
C Javale Mcgee (17 Min), Dwight Howard (19 Min)

2021 Lakers
first round

PG Dennis Schroder (32 Min), Alex Caruso (21 Min)
SG Kentavious Caldwell-Pope (29 Min), Wesley Matthews (20 Min), Talen Horton Tucker (20 Min)
SF Lebron James (33 Min), Jared Dudley
PF Anthony Davis (32 Min), Kyle Kuzma (29 Min), Markieff Morris (20 Min)
C Marc Gasol (19 Min), Montrezl Harroll (23 Min), Andre Drummond (25 Min)

2022 Lakers
lottery

PG Russell Westbrook (34 Min), Rajon Rondo (16 Min), Austin Reaves (23 Min)
SG Avery Bradley (23 Min), Malik Monk (28 Min), Wayne Ellington (19 Min), Talen Horton Tucker (25 Min)
SF Lebron James (37 Min), Kent Bazemore (14 Min), Trevor Ariza (19 Min)
PF Anthony Davis (35 Min), Carmelo Anthony (26 Min), Stanley Johnson (23 Min)
C Deandre Jordan (13 Min), Dwight Howard (16 Min), Wenyen Gabrial (16 Min)


Now do the next season and now.


Updated. Came full circle
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cital
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 9:44 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
The Lakers since 2020, have had so much roster turnover that it makes it nearly impossible to achieve any stability. Losing the stability that KCP/Kuz/AC brought on the team as longer-term Lakers really hurt. And having to constantly shuffle a parade of new min. deal players each year, with a new MMLE player too is just not a way for a contending team to establish cohesion.

Rob/FO have just gone about this the wrong way. Now we are again going to have to likely turn over more than 2/3rd of the roster, and a lot depends on what we can get for Russ too. SMH.


Totally agree. The roster should have gone virtually unchanged after the championship....

Howard/McGee
Davis/Morris/Dudley
LeBron/Kuzma
Green/Caruso/THT
KCP/Rondo

Some might say Rondo was overpaid, BUT, we signed Harrell for more money, and he did absolutely nothing for us while Rondo was our 3rd best player in the bubble. McGee was overpaid, but trading him was just being cheap after winning a championship and I would have preferred keeping him over Gasol or Drummond.

I would have also replaced Bradley (opted out of bubble and contract) with Matthews, who was signed with the BAE. Would have been nice to hold onto Damian Jones as well.


Last edited by cital on Fri May 13, 2022 9:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 9:44 am    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
2019 Lakers
lottery

PG Lonzo Ball (30 Min), Rajon Rondo (30 Min), Alex Caruso (21 Min)
SG Brandon Ingram (34 Min), Kentavious Caldwell-Pope (25 Min)
SF Lebron James (35 Min), Lance Stevenson (16 Min)
PF Kyle Kuzma (33 Min), Josh Hart (26 Min), Michael Beasley (10 Min)
C Javale Mcgee (22 Min), Ivica Zubac (16 Min), Tyson Chandler (16 Min)

2020 Lakers
bubble title

PG Avery Bradley (24 Min), Rajon Rondo (21 Min), Alex Caruso (18 Min)
SG Danny Green (25 Min), Kentavious Caldwell-Pope (26 Min), Talen Horton Tucker (14 Min)
SF Lebron James (35 Min), Jared Dudley
PF Anthony Davis (35 Min), Kyle Kuzma (25 Min), Markieff Morris (14 Min)
C Javale Mcgee (17 Min), Dwight Howard (19 Min)

2021 Lakers
first round

PG Dennis Schroder (32 Min), Alex Caruso (21 Min)
SG Kentavious Caldwell-Pope (29 Min), Wesley Matthews (20 Min), Talen Horton Tucker (20 Min)
SF Lebron James (33 Min), Jared Dudley
PF Anthony Davis (32 Min), Kyle Kuzma (29 Min), Markieff Morris (20 Min)
C Marc Gasol (19 Min), Montrezl Harroll (23 Min), Andre Drummond (25 Min)

2022 Lakers
lottery

PG Russell Westbrook (34 Min), Rajon Rondo (16 Min), Austin Reaves (23 Min)
SG Avery Bradley (23 Min), Malik Monk (28 Min), Wayne Ellington (19 Min), Talen Horton Tucker (25 Min)
SF Lebron James (37 Min), Kent Bazemore (14 Min), Trevor Ariza (19 Min)
PF Anthony Davis (35 Min), Carmelo Anthony (26 Min), Stanley Johnson (23 Min)
C Deandre Jordan (13 Min), Dwight Howard (16 Min), Wenyen Gabrial (16 Min)


Now do the next season and now.


Updated. Came full circle


Most important part of this is who survives the roster purge for this coming season?

The over/ under could be set at 5 players returning this season and I would likely take the under.

Such a mess!
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 9:46 am    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
2019 Lakers
lottery

PG Lonzo Ball (30 Min), Rajon Rondo (30 Min), Alex Caruso (21 Min)
SG Brandon Ingram (34 Min), Kentavious Caldwell-Pope (25 Min)
SF Lebron James (35 Min), Lance Stevenson (16 Min)
PF Kyle Kuzma (33 Min), Josh Hart (26 Min), Michael Beasley (10 Min)
C Javale Mcgee (22 Min), Ivica Zubac (16 Min), Tyson Chandler (16 Min)

2020 Lakers
bubble title

PG Avery Bradley (24 Min), Rajon Rondo (21 Min), Alex Caruso (18 Min)
SG Danny Green (25 Min), Kentavious Caldwell-Pope (26 Min), Talen Horton Tucker (14 Min)
SF Lebron James (35 Min), Jared Dudley
PF Anthony Davis (35 Min), Kyle Kuzma (25 Min), Markieff Morris (14 Min)
C Javale Mcgee (17 Min), Dwight Howard (19 Min)

2021 Lakers
first round

PG Dennis Schroder (32 Min), Alex Caruso (21 Min)
SG Kentavious Caldwell-Pope (29 Min), Wesley Matthews (20 Min), Talen Horton Tucker (20 Min)
SF Lebron James (33 Min), Jared Dudley
PF Anthony Davis (32 Min), Kyle Kuzma (29 Min), Markieff Morris (20 Min)
C Marc Gasol (19 Min), Montrezl Harroll (23 Min), Andre Drummond (25 Min)

2022 Lakers
lottery

PG Russell Westbrook (34 Min), Rajon Rondo (16 Min), Austin Reaves (23 Min)
SG Avery Bradley (23 Min), Malik Monk (28 Min), Wayne Ellington (19 Min), Talen Horton Tucker (25 Min)
SF Lebron James (37 Min), Kent Bazemore (14 Min), Trevor Ariza (19 Min)
PF Anthony Davis (35 Min), Carmelo Anthony (26 Min), Stanley Johnson (23 Min)
C Deandre Jordan (13 Min), Dwight Howard (16 Min), Wenyen Gabrial (16 Min)


Now do the next season and now.


Updated. Came full circle


Terrible how we let KCP/Kuz/AC go.
_________________
LBJ missed games:
20-21: 27/72 (37.5% missed)
21-22: 26/82 (31% missed)

AD missed games:
20-21: 36/72 (50% missed)
21-22: 40/82 (48% missed)

Lakers wins and win%:
20-21: 42-30 (58% win)
21-22: 33-49 (40% win)
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ocho
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 9:54 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
ocho wrote:
activeverb wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
And then we fast forward to this year and we are down to...just LBJ/AD. Crazy.


You could field a complete team of just players from the 2022 NBA Playoffs that the Lakers had but lost for absolutely nothing:

PG: Alex Caruso
SG: Wes Matthews
SF: Reggie Bullock
PF: Javale McGee
C: Brook Lopez

Bench:
Andre Drummond
Gary Payton II



We have made some poor player decisions, but in a vacuum, I don't think this list is particularly significant.

A lot of those guys have been on multiple teams between the time they were with us and their current teams, and some of them floundered on those teams until they found a situation that worked for them.

Some of those guys we acquired as cheap free agents for one season, and then they left, so there wasn't really much we could do.

Some of those guys weren't that good when they were with us, and we didn't want them.


I don't think that's the point. First of all, it's a list that only includes players currently in the playoffs. The list gets bigger when you start to factor all the other players we dumped for nothing (Julius Randle, Dennis Shroeder, Damian Jones, Mike Muscala, etc). The point is these guys are all assets of varying degrees. If the goal is to maximize any and all assets you have, it's not great to have a long list of players that are contributing to winning playoff teams that you just dumped with nothing to show for it. So yeah letting go of Wes Matthews in and of itself isn't the end of the world (though we sure could have used him this year) these mistakes start to add up and the smarter teams (aka the ones that are still playing) take advantage of them.



As I said, I agree the Lakers have made some poor player decisions, but this particular list of players makes me shrug as examples of poor asset management. You seem to think the list says something more than I do, so to each their own.


It may become more clear as the summer goes on and the Lakers are trying to acquire players like this. We'll see how close they get to securing players as good or better than these guys with the resources they have.
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JUST-MING
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 9:58 am    Post subject:

I think Talen Horton Tucker was expected to replace Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, as a starter, but that never happened. Frank went with Avery Bradley as a starter, then Malik Monk was promoted to starter.

I think Carmelo Anthony was expected to replace Kyle Kuzma. He did. 13 points off the bench.

I think Austin Reaves was expected to replace Alex Caruso. He did.


If you are looking for a narrative, then it should start with Talen Horton Tucker. He was, by far, the biggest disappointment.
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Inspector Gadget
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 10:02 am    Post subject:

Kinda interesting that Kyrie Irving backtracked on his situation with LeBron in Cleveland almost seems like he wouldn’t mind another marriage go around on the same team.. if it presented itself, something to keep a eye on.

Last edited by Inspector Gadget on Fri May 13, 2022 10:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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lakersfan32
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 10:04 am    Post subject:

danny green is available
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 10:05 am    Post subject:

lakersfan32 wrote:
danny green is available


Kawhi hasn't won without Danny. I wouldn't be surprised if the Clippers made a run at him.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 10:06 am    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
I think Talen Horton Tucker was expected to replace Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, as a starter, but that never happened. Frank went with Avery Bradley as a starter, then Malik Monk was promoted to starter.

I think Carmelo Anthony was expected to replace Kyle Kuzma. He did. 13 points off the bench.

I think Austin Reaves was expected to replace Alex Caruso. He did.


If you are looking for a narrative, then it should start with Talen Horton Tucker. He was, by far, the biggest disappointment.


Nice try.

We lost KCP/Kuz/Trezz/22nd for Russ. Disastrous trade.

Then we just let AC go for nothing. Disaster on top of disaster. But as AH points out correctly, the Lakers main issue is going for 3 superstars. We failed with Kawhi (and won a championship still, but the lesson wasn't learned) and then went for a washed up Russ who thinks he's still a superstar.
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LBJ missed games:
20-21: 27/72 (37.5% missed)
21-22: 26/82 (31% missed)

AD missed games:
20-21: 36/72 (50% missed)
21-22: 40/82 (48% missed)

Lakers wins and win%:
20-21: 42-30 (58% win)
21-22: 33-49 (40% win)
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 10:12 am    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
lakersfan32 wrote:
danny green is available


Kawhi hasn't won without Danny. I wouldn't be surprised if the Clippers made a run at him.

i doubt he can even play next year.
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lakersfan32
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 10:16 am    Post subject:

mad55557777 wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
lakersfan32 wrote:
danny green is available


Kawhi hasn't won without Danny. I wouldn't be surprised if the Clippers made a run at him.

i doubt he can even play next year.


that was the joke, lol
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 10:23 am    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
I think Talen Horton Tucker was expected to replace Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, as a starter, but that never happened. Frank went with Avery Bradley as a starter, then Malik Monk was promoted to starter.

I think Carmelo Anthony was expected to replace Kyle Kuzma. He did. 13 points off the bench.

I think Austin Reaves was expected to replace Alex Caruso. He did.


If you are looking for a narrative, then it should start with Talen Horton Tucker. He was, by far, the biggest disappointment.




left out the part where he provided half the rebounding rate, half the assist rate, and was one of the worst defensive players in the league. So bad he was a net negative even with his "13 points"

Not even gonna bother with "Austin Reaves replaced Alex Caruso" unless the metric you're going by is "was white"

how drunk do you have to be to see basketball like this and still be alive
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 10:27 am    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
I think Talen Horton Tucker was expected to replace Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, as a starter, but that never happened. Frank went with Avery Bradley as a starter, then Malik Monk was promoted to starter.

I think Carmelo Anthony was expected to replace Kyle Kuzma. He did. 13 points off the bench.

I think Austin Reaves was expected to replace Alex Caruso. He did.


If you are looking for a narrative, then it should start with Talen Horton Tucker. He was, by far, the biggest disappointment.




left out the part where he provided half the rebounding rate, half the assist rate, and was one of the worst defensive players in the league. So bad he was a net negative even with his "13 points"

Not even gonna bother with "Austin Reaves replaced Alex Caruso" unless the metric you're going by is "was white"

how drunk do you have to be to see basketball like this and still be alive


Pretty clear he literally only looks at raw stats. I wouldn't be surprised if he believes Russ was better than Magic because of counting stats.
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LBJ missed games:
20-21: 27/72 (37.5% missed)
21-22: 26/82 (31% missed)

AD missed games:
20-21: 36/72 (50% missed)
21-22: 40/82 (48% missed)

Lakers wins and win%:
20-21: 42-30 (58% win)
21-22: 33-49 (40% win)
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ocho
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 10:33 am    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
I think Talen Horton Tucker was expected to replace Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, as a starter, but that never happened. Frank went with Avery Bradley as a starter, then Malik Monk was promoted to starter.

I think Carmelo Anthony was expected to replace Kyle Kuzma. He did. 13 points off the bench.

I think Austin Reaves was expected to replace Alex Caruso. He did.


If you are looking for a narrative, then it should start with Talen Horton Tucker. He was, by far, the biggest disappointment.




left out the part where he provided half the rebounding rate, half the assist rate, and was one of the worst defensive players in the league. So bad he was a net negative even with his "13 points"

Not even gonna bother with "Austin Reaves replaced Alex Caruso" unless the metric you're going by is "was white"

how drunk do you have to be to see basketball like this and still be alive


A fun exercise is to go through our roster last year and count the guys that would be rotation players for any of the teams currently left. You won’t need both hands to count.
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 10:37 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:

A fun exercise is to go through our roster last year and count the guys that would be rotation players for any of the teams currently left. You won’t need both hands to count.


Yep. Avery and Kent were both cut by Golden State and they were both week 1 starters.
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 11:03 am    Post subject:

Quote:
76ers guard Danny Green has been diagnosed with a torn ACL, sources tell
@TheAthletic@Stadium. Brutal outcome for Green, who turns 35 in June and now faces a long rehab.


-Shams
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 11:18 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
I think Talen Horton Tucker was expected to replace Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, as a starter, but that never happened. Frank went with Avery Bradley as a starter, then Malik Monk was promoted to starter.

I think Carmelo Anthony was expected to replace Kyle Kuzma. He did. 13 points off the bench.

I think Austin Reaves was expected to replace Alex Caruso. He did.


If you are looking for a narrative, then it should start with Talen Horton Tucker. He was, by far, the biggest disappointment.




left out the part where he provided half the rebounding rate, half the assist rate, and was one of the worst defensive players in the league. So bad he was a net negative even with his "13 points"

Not even gonna bother with "Austin Reaves replaced Alex Caruso" unless the metric you're going by is "was white"

how drunk do you have to be to see basketball like this and still be alive


Pretty clear he literally only looks at raw stats. I wouldn't be surprised if he believes Russ was better than Magic because of counting stats.


JUST-MING's opinions are based on fantasy basketball stats

Saying that Melo replaces Kuzma means you've never watched Melo or Kuzma
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 11:32 am    Post subject:

Lakersfan1211 wrote:
Quote:
76ers guard Danny Green has been diagnosed with a torn ACL, sources tell
@TheAthletic@Stadium. Brutal outcome for Green, who turns 35 in June and now faces a long rehab.


-Shams


All for a game that wasn't winnable. Just sucks.
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 11:38 am    Post subject:

IIRC, Booker is a FA in 2024. At this rate, I can see him leaving the Suns b/c CP3 will be what, 39 in 2024, and he's sort of indispensable to their success. Booker looks like an LA type of guy with his girl and all, so I'm sure the Lakers are keeping their books clear for someone like him in 2024.
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LBJ missed games:
20-21: 27/72 (37.5% missed)
21-22: 26/82 (31% missed)

AD missed games:
20-21: 36/72 (50% missed)
21-22: 40/82 (48% missed)

Lakers wins and win%:
20-21: 42-30 (58% win)
21-22: 33-49 (40% win)
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 12:00 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
IIRC, Booker is a FA in 2024. At this rate, I can see him leaving the Suns b/c CP3 will be what, 39 in 2024, and he's sort of indispensable to their success. Booker looks like an LA type of guy with his girl and all, so I'm sure the Lakers are keeping their books clear for someone like him in 2024.


One can only dream.
Booker + AD would be a crazy good combo.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 12:13 pm    Post subject:

With Doc now out of the running as a potential head coaching candidate for us (thank the heavens), Terry Stotts has become the slight betting favorite at 5-1 to be our next coach, with both Bucks assistants and Mark Jackson (yuck) listed at 6-1. Combine that with Kurt Helin offering up today that Lillard is not interested in the Knicks, and it makes me wonder if Lillard could be in play for us with Stotts coming aboard as either the head coach or the lead assistant, which might make sense if we hire someone like Ham as a first-time head coach.

Time to fire up some Trade Machine scenarios!
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