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Bron2AD
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2022 8:33 pm    Post subject:

AD23 wrote:
The Hawks could be a team where Russ could excel. They have one of the best shooters in Trae Young along w/Kevin Huerter.

I know the Hawks are looking to trade either Collins or Capela.

Maybe a Russ for Capela + Gallinari deal might be of interest to ATL.


Maybe gallo + bogs
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2022 9:25 pm    Post subject:

AD23 wrote:
The Hawks could be a team where Russ could excel. They have one of the best shooters in Trae Young along w/Kevin Huerter.

I know the Hawks are looking to trade either Collins or Capela.

Maybe a Russ for Capela + Gallinari deal might be of interest to ATL.


LOL why would Russ excel in ATL when trae young needs the ball just as much as lebron? Because he can shoot better?

Young having the ball is an important part of why ATL’s offense was top in the league. Reducing its effectiveness by taking the ball and placing it into Westbrook’s hands isn’t a recipe a team with playoff hopes like ATL would follow anytime soon, especially with what Russ showed with lebron this year.

Plus ATL’s biggest issue is defense. Young is arguably the worst defender in the league. Why would ATL want to pair a terrible defender in Young with someone who’s just as terrible on d and would be undersize at the 2? Lol Young/Russ would arguably be the worst defensive backcourt in the league with Westbrook’s declining athleticism

ATL is looking to trade capella or collins, but they’ll be doing so on the basis of improving the team given their playoff aspirations. There’s no way ATL trades either of them for Russ this early, especially when Westbrook doesn’t address their needs.
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AD23
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2022 9:32 pm    Post subject:

dabask11 wrote:
AD23 wrote:
The Hawks could be a team where Russ could excel. They have one of the best shooters in Trae Young along w/Kevin Huerter.

I know the Hawks are looking to trade either Collins or Capela.

Maybe a Russ for Capela + Gallinari deal might be of interest to ATL.


LOL why would Russ excel in ATL when trae young needs the ball just as much as lebron? Because he can shoot better?

Young having the ball is an important part of why ATL’s offense was top in the league. Reducing its effectiveness by taking the ball and placing it into Westbrook’s hands isn’t a recipe a team with playoff hopes like ATL would follow anytime soon, especially with what Russ showed with lebron this year.

Plus ATL’s biggest issue is defense. Young is arguably the worst defender in the league. Why would ATL want to pair a terrible defender in Young with someone who’s just as terrible on d and would be undersize at the 2? Lol Young/Russ would arguably be the worst defensive backcourt in the league with Westbrook’s declining athleticism

ATL is looking to trade capella or collins, but they’ll be doing so on the basis of improving the team given their playoff aspirations. There’s no way ATL trades either of them for Russ this early, especially when Westbrook doesn’t address their needs.


Trae handling the ball that much all game doesn't work. He can't handle that work load for 82 games and carry the team more in the playoffs.

Having Russ drive and kick and push the pace works on that team when he has shooters.

Capela has 3 yrs and $65M+ left on his contract. Collins has 4 years and $100M+ left on his.

If ATL wants the Lakers to take on Huerter who the Hawks recently signed to a 4 yr $65M deal, maybe that's worth while.

ATL is going to owe a lot of money to sign their young guys to contracts after next season. Russ expiring $47M is a boon to them.
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AD23
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2022 9:50 pm    Post subject:

Since I brought up the Hawks, I wouldn't mind trading AD + THT for John Collins + De'Andre Hunter + Bogdanovic + future 1st rd pick
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2022 10:19 pm    Post subject:

AD23 wrote:
dabask11 wrote:
AD23 wrote:
The Hawks could be a team where Russ could excel. They have one of the best shooters in Trae Young along w/Kevin Huerter.

I know the Hawks are looking to trade either Collins or Capela.

Maybe a Russ for Capela + Gallinari deal might be of interest to ATL.


LOL why would Russ excel in ATL when trae young needs the ball just as much as lebron? Because he can shoot better?

Young having the ball is an important part of why ATL’s offense was top in the league. Reducing its effectiveness by taking the ball and placing it into Westbrook’s hands isn’t a recipe a team with playoff hopes like ATL would follow anytime soon, especially with what Russ showed with lebron this year.

Plus ATL’s biggest issue is defense. Young is arguably the worst defender in the league. Why would ATL want to pair a terrible defender in Young with someone who’s just as terrible on d and would be undersize at the 2? Lol Young/Russ would arguably be the worst defensive backcourt in the league with Westbrook’s declining athleticism

ATL is looking to trade capella or collins, but they’ll be doing so on the basis of improving the team given their playoff aspirations. There’s no way ATL trades either of them for Russ this early, especially when Westbrook doesn’t address their needs.


Trae handling the ball that much all game doesn't work. He can't handle that work load for 82 games and carry the team more in the playoffs.

Having Russ drive and kick and push the pace works on that team when he has shooters.

Capela has 3 yrs and $65M+ left on his contract. Collins has 4 years and $100M+ left on his.

If ATL wants the Lakers to take on Huerter who the Hawks recently signed to a 4 yr $65M deal, maybe that's worth while.

ATL is going to owe a lot of money to sign their young guys to contracts after next season. Russ expiring $47M is a boon to them.


The problem is lowering Trae’s work load with Russ isn’t the answer. As lebron and the lakers showed last year, Westbrook’s other deficiencies like turnovers and defense creates more issues and just forces players like young to compensate and overexert themselves. This defeats the purpose of bringing a player like Russ in the first place.

Pushing the pace with more shooters isn’t going to make Westbrook overcome his issues. Laker fans need to accept he has almost no value as a player to 90% of the league, especially when teams can see stats like how terrible he is at hitting open 3’s relative to most of the nba.

Westbrook+Frp for Wall is his market value. The fact it costs a frp to get rid of him for another player on the same contract told to sit at home speaks volumes about his desirability in the league.

Collins/Capella costs a lot of money but he’s ATL 2nd best player and Capella is arguably their 3rd. They are not going to salary dump them this early before the season starts given their playoff aspirations. They’ll want to try and find an upgrade first before settling on expirings if their season goes south before the trade deadline.
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 12:27 am    Post subject:

^
I'd disagree with Westbrook plus a 1st for Wall as his market value. That's just what Houston would apparently be willing to do. Don't get me wrong, if we successfully trade Westbrook we're almost certainly going to have to take back longer-term contracts, but I'd still disagree with that characterization.
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J.C. Smith
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 1:44 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
^
I'd disagree with Westbrook plus a 1st for Wall as his market value. That's just what Houston would apparently be willing to do. Don't get me wrong, if we successfully trade Westbrook we're almost certainly going to have to take back longer-term contracts, but I'd still disagree with that characterization.


To reinforce that thought, we've heard plenty of Russell Westbrook potential trades. How many John Wall potential trades have we heard other than the Westbrook one? The guy has played 40 games in the past three years, didn't play a single game last season, and has only played 113 games combined in the past five seasons.

Westbrook is at least durable and in the right environment he can be productive. That environment just isn't here. I could half see Westbrook for Wall, even though I think Westbrook has more value. Just because the fit has been so bad. But Russ + anything for Wall is extortion.
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JUST-MING
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 2:30 am    Post subject:

Knicks trade of Kemba, Fournier, etc. did not include a first round pick.

Apparently, dude set the "market value" for Russell with his first round pick spam posts . Vasashi would be proud, that's his agenda afterall. Throwing away first round picks. That's the only way to (marginally) improve the team to optimize Lebron's window, in his opinion.
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 2:38 am    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:

NBA Central wrote:
Feb 10, 2022ReplyRetweetFavorite


Robin Lopez is available


Hey you guys

Market value for Robin Lopez was a first round pick LOL!
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JUST-MING
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 2:42 am    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
vasashi17+ wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
Michael Scotto wrote:

    Sources: The Lakers, Knicks and Raptors have discussed a 3-team trade.

    Lakers get Cam Reddish and Alec Burks.

    Knicks get Goran Dragic and draft picks.

    Raptors get Talen Horton-Tucker and Nerlens Noel.

    There’s also a chance Kendrick Nunn is added to the trade as talks continue
Feb 10, 2022ReplyRetweetFavorite


I'd want to know what "draft picks" we're talking about. It's hard to imagine that a second round pick or two would get this done. If it does, then fine. I don't know that much about Reddish or Burks, but some of you seem to think that they would be useful.


Quote:
Per Scotto: With New York trading away three rotation players in the proposal, one potential hangup in the trade discussion centers on the draft pick compensation for the Knicks. Toronto discussed sending a first-round pick, and the Lakers discussed sending a second-round pick to the Knicks, HoopsHype has learned. As conversations continued, the Knicks sought additional draft compensation.

Knicks management has expressed a desire for Reddish to play more minutes after giving up a first-round pick to the Atlanta Hawks to acquire the 22-year-old small forward. However, according to a report from the New York Post, Knicks coach Tom Thibodeau wasn’t “all-in” on trading for Reddish, who has failed to crack the rotation consistently. Conversely, Thibodeau has always held veterans Noel and Burks in high regard as both have been consistent rotation players dating back to last season.

As previously reported on the HoopsHype podcast in mid-January, the Lakers expressed interest in Raptors guard Gary Trent Jr. but were turned away by Toronto. Horton-Tucker was discussed in that proposal, which led the Lakers to circle back in these talks with Horton-Tucker again as a potential trade candidate for Toronto. The Lakers have dangled a trade package of Horton-Tucker, Nunn, and a future first-round pick across the league for an upgrade to get the team back on track after falling to 26-30 and ninth place in the Western Conference.

The Raptors also were interested in signing Noel during free agency, as previously reported on HoopsHype. They have targeted several centers on the market, including Jakob Poeltl, Myles Turner, Robert Williams, Nicolas Claxton, and Jusuf Nurkic. Toronto has surveyed the market to include Goran Dragic in a trade with his expiring contract worth $19.4 million.


Also @allyhoop, Nunn can be spared from a trade for Cam, but only via 3 vet min players to salary match…not just 2. If THT is earmarked for Burks (due to them having nearly identical salaries of 9.5m, then Cam needs to be traded by himself (not aggregated with Burks) and it wound take Nunn’s salary or 3 Laker vet min salaries. Also keep in mind the Knicks have 14 on the roster so they can acquire a total of just 1 more player than they send out. So a 3 for 1 deal where we send out 3 vet mins for Cam is not a legal trade unless the Knicks waive a player first or loop in Toronto or another team to take on the additional player within an available roster spot.

Lastly, recall that during the offseason NY was targeting Nunn and even offered him a bigger bag, but he ended up choosing us instead.

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1422666628999827463


Read the bold. The Knicks wanted our 2027 lottery pick.


This trade didn't include Russell.

Market value for Talen was a first round pick LOL!
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 3:57 am    Post subject:

It's scary to realize that the coach we fired because he didn't max out the usage of WB, that this player when you start to look at places around the league where he would fit and teams want him, it's really scary to see how he doesn't fit.

The only place that makes some sense to me is OKC, but even that they would do only if we gave them a ton of young assets/draft picks on top of WB. IE not for WB directly, a way to unload WB to them so they can gain some longterm assets and WB can put on a show for OKC fans.

It's really not a situation where I see any team in this league want him as a starting PG at 47M a year. They just won't see that as good business/investment.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 4:14 am    Post subject:

J.C. Smith wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
^
I'd disagree with Westbrook plus a 1st for Wall as his market value. That's just what Houston would apparently be willing to do. Don't get me wrong, if we successfully trade Westbrook we're almost certainly going to have to take back longer-term contracts, but I'd still disagree with that characterization.


To reinforce that thought, we've heard plenty of Russell Westbrook potential trades. How many John Wall potential trades have we heard other than the Westbrook one? The guy has played 40 games in the past three years, didn't play a single game last season, and has only played 113 games combined in the past five seasons.

Westbrook is at least durable and in the right environment he can be productive. That environment just isn't here. I could half see Westbrook for Wall, even though I think Westbrook has more value. Just because the fit has been so bad. But Russ + anything for Wall is extortion.


Is that really true? The only more-or-less confirmed Westbrook trade on the table is John Wall. All of the other trade ideas are just spit balling by clickbait artists or optimistic ideas from Laker fans. In about five weeks, we'll know whether there is any market at all for Westbrook. I won't be surprised if the Wall trade is as good as it gets. In fact, this is supported by the recent rumors coming out of the Lakers -- they're war gaming for having him on the roster next season.
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 4:47 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
It's scary to realize that the coach we fired because he didn't max out the usage of WB, that this player when you start to look at places around the league where he would fit and teams want him, it's really scary to see how he doesn't fit.

The only place that makes some sense to me is OKC, but even that they would do only if we gave them a ton of young assets/draft picks on top of WB. IE not for WB directly, a way to unload WB to them so they can gain some longterm assets and WB can put on a show for OKC fans.

It's really not a situation where I see any team in this league want him as a starting PG at 47M a year. They just won't see that as good business/investment.


Russ, as a trade piece, would first and foremost be considered mostly for his expiring contract. I can't see too many teams eager to trade for him based on his on court contributions, especially at 47m/year. If he was a FA, I do believe he would garner at most, a MLE. So the "value" of Russ is that you may be able to clean nearly 40% of your cap space with one trade.
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 5:24 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
It's scary to realize that the coach we fired because he didn't max out the usage of WB, that this player when you start to look at places around the league where he would fit and teams want him, it's really scary to see how he doesn't fit.

The only place that makes some sense to me is OKC, but even that they would do only if we gave them a ton of young assets/draft picks on top of WB. IE not for WB directly, a way to unload WB to them so they can gain some longterm assets and WB can put on a show for OKC fans.

It's really not a situation where I see any team in this league want him as a starting PG at 47M a year. They just won't see that as good business/investment.


Russ, as a trade piece, would first and foremost be considered mostly for his expiring contract. I can't see too many teams eager to trade for him based on his on court contributions, especially at 47m/year. If he was a FA, I do believe he would garner at most, a MLE. So the "value" of Russ is that you may be able to clean nearly 40% of your cap space with one trade.


I can bet there is no team interested in Westbrook the basketball player

Vogel was fired cause he was useless, we lost atleast 10 games because of his incompetence
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JUST-MING
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 5:28 am    Post subject:

Why would Oklahoma City want Russell?

I don't follow your thought process, Wolf. Oklahoma City does not want to win games. Sam Presti wants to build a roster through the draft. That's what Sam Presti is known for. Oklahoma City has pick #2, #12, #30, #34. Yet, somehow, it makes sense to you, the only team that wants Russell is Oklahoma City.

No, just.. no. Oklahoma City wants draft picks.


Last edited by JUST-MING on Tue May 24, 2022 5:30 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 5:28 am    Post subject:

Capspace is overrated in today's market. Teams would rather get draft picks and draft their own young and cheap stars than making caospace to sign an aging superstar so I don't think Westbrick's expiring has that much appeal.
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 5:30 am    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
Why would Oklahoma City want Russell?

I don't follow your thought process Wolf. Oklahoma City does not want to win games. Sam Presti wants to build a roster through the draft. That's what he is best known for. Oklahoma City has pick #2, #12, #30, #34. Somehow, it makes sense to you that Oklahoma City wants Russell.



.........Nostalgia.....
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 5:47 am    Post subject:

Dennis100mtrash wrote:

I can bet there is no team interested in Westbrook the basketball player


Our team was interested. I already named Orlando. Charlotte. New York. New Orleans. Utah wants to dump Mike Conley. Those teams I can see interested in Russell. Yes, our team included.
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 5:54 am    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
Dennis100mtrash wrote:

I can bet there is no team interested in Westbrook the basketball player


Our team was interested. I already named Orlando. Charlotte. New York. New Orleans. Utah wants to dump Mike Conley. Those teams I can see interested in Russell. Yes, our team included.


I clearly said his basketball value. If you to say dump that means another team sending us multi year crap deals like Conley

Public forum interested doesn’t mean the team is interested. Every forum has 100’s of IG’s on it
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 6:01 am    Post subject:

Dennis100mtrash wrote:
Public forum interested doesn’t mean the team is interested. Every forum has 100’s of IG’s on it


You're right, of course, but there is only one IG. He's often imitated, never duplicated.
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JUST-MING
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 6:09 am    Post subject:

Dennis100mtrash wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
Dennis100mtrash wrote:

I can bet there is no team interested in Westbrook the basketball player


Our team was interested. I already named Orlando. Charlotte. New York. New Orleans. Utah interested in replacing Mike Conley with Russell Westbrook. Those teams I can see interested in Russell. Yes, our team included.


I clearly said his basketball value. If you to say dump that means another team sending us multi year crap deals like Conley

Public forum interested doesn’t mean the team is interested. Every forum has 100’s of IG’s on it


I re-worded my post.


Last edited by JUST-MING on Tue May 24, 2022 6:16 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 6:12 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Russ, as a trade piece, would first and foremost be considered mostly for his expiring contract.


This may be true, but I'm skeptical of the idea that his expiring contract has significant value. It's entirely credible that some teams would value an expiring contract, though this is likely less true than it once was. But how many teams really want $47M worth of expiring contract? It would only be teams that are looking to wipe out a third to a half of their payroll.

There are a lot of expiring contracts out there. If a team wants to unload a player who is making, say, $30M, they don't need the Westbrook contract. They just need to find someone with an expiring contract for about $25M. They can make a move like that and not need to deal with Westbrook.

It's not impossible that there is some team out there that really wants to clear its roster. However, the fact that someone on this board thinks that Team X might want to scrap its roster does not make it true. If we find someone who offers value for Westbrook, it will most likely be a team that wants him as a player. Otherwise, it will probably be a case of us paying value for the privilege of unloading Westbrook.

I may be proven dead wrong about this. We'll know in about five weeks.
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 6:14 am    Post subject:

What's more likely to happen? Westbrick opting out or the Buss kids selling the Lakers?
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 6:21 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Russ, as a trade piece, would first and foremost be considered mostly for his expiring contract.


This may be true, but I'm skeptical of the idea that his expiring contract has significant value. It's entirely credible that some teams would value an expiring contract, though this is likely less true than it once was. But how many teams really want $47M worth of expiring contract? It would only be teams that are looking to wipe out a third to a half of their payroll.

There are a lot of expiring contracts out there. If a team wants to unload a player who is making, say, $30M, they don't need the Westbrook contract. They just need to find someone with an expiring contract for about $25M. They can make a move like that and not need to deal with Westbrook.

It's not impossible that there is some team out there that really wants to clear its roster. However, the fact that someone on this board thinks that Team X might want to scrap its roster does not make it true. If we find someone who offers value for Westbrook, it will most likely be a team that wants him as a player. Otherwise, it will probably be a case of us paying value for the privilege of unloading Westbrook.

I may be proven dead wrong about this. We'll know in about five weeks.


What I'm saying is that his value does not lie in his on-court play. No winning team would employ him at 47m a year. His best "value" is that he's an expiring contract. That's why the rumored trade partners are all teams with deals that are longer than 1 year. They are effectively looking to clear their salary cap books.

His value as a piece for a contending team ended years ago. He is about to be in for a rude awakening when he hits 2023 FA. MLE is likely his ceiling.
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 6:22 am    Post subject:

AD23 wrote:
Since I brought up the Hawks, I wouldn't mind trading AD + THT for John Collins + De'Andre Hunter + Bogdanovic + future 1st rd pick


I would get behind the trade if it happens, that’s a very nice haul for a guy who can’t stay healthy.
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