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| Are you happy about Vogel becoming our coach? |
| No |
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12% |
[ 62 ] |
| Yes |
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54% |
[ 271 ] |
| Neutral |
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32% |
[ 163 ] |
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| Total Votes : 496 |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
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 Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| Hard_Butter wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | The Lakers are bad right now beyond Vogel, but let's get this over with. Bring on Fizdale.
Let's see what the real problem is. |
Fizdale wouldn't be the answer either. Perhaps losing Kidd and Hollins was a bigger blow than expected. Maybe making sure keeping Dudz on the bench would've helped. All I know is that he's lost the team. Good guy. Great defensive coach, but not a leader. And he's been exposed offensively. Was he dealt a bad hand? Sure. But the team shouldn't be this bad. A new voice, any voice might help ala Bickerstaff.
At the very least, give this poor man an offensive guru.... |
A new voice won’t overcome the unbalanced roster. Roster construction is the problem.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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oaktown_dimond
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Joined: 16 Nov 2007
Posts: 1358
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| Let Rondo coach the team. |
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Outspoken
Star Player
Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 8450
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| oaktown_dimond wrote: | | Let Rondo coach the team. |
Hmmm.... |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| Hard_Butter wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | The Lakers are bad right now beyond Vogel, but let's get this over with. Bring on Fizdale.
Let's see what the real problem is. |
Fizdale wouldn't be the answer either. Perhaps losing Kidd and Hollins was a bigger blow than expected. Maybe making sure keeping Dudz on the bench would've helped. All I know is that he's lost the team. Good guy. Great defensive coach, but not a leader. And he's been exposed offensively. Was he dealt a bad hand? Sure. But the team shouldn't be this bad. A new voice, any voice might help ala Bickerstaff.
At the very least, give this poor man an offensive guru.... |
Who else would it be besides Fizdale? He's a LeBron guy going back to Miami and who's out there not currently under contract? D'Antoni?
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Hard_Butter wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | The Lakers are bad right now beyond Vogel, but let's get this over with. Bring on Fizdale.
Let's see what the real problem is. |
Fizdale wouldn't be the answer either. Perhaps losing Kidd and Hollins was a bigger blow than expected. Maybe making sure keeping Dudz on the bench would've helped. All I know is that he's lost the team. Good guy. Great defensive coach, but not a leader. And he's been exposed offensively. Was he dealt a bad hand? Sure. But the team shouldn't be this bad. A new voice, any voice might help ala Bickerstaff.
At the very least, give this poor man an offensive guru.... |
A new voice won’t overcome the unbalanced roster. Roster construction is the problem. |
He's been dealt a fake good hand so the line when he's fired will be, "how can you not win with three superstars?" But a roster with three forwards - all 36 years old - and eight guards 6'5 or shorter doesn't make much sense in today's NBA, especially on defense.
Pelinka flipped the roster from defense to offense this summer, Vogel isn't an offense guy, and now the team has tuned him out. G'bye, Frank. LeBron has his guy Fizdale waiting in the wings - though I've always understood Fizdale to be a pretty mediocre offensive coach as well - and a post-firing dead cat bounce combined with roster rationalization via trade (bye THT!), post-deadline signings, and health for bigger perimeter defenders in Ariza/Reaves should put them on a better trajectory. But a championship caliber trajectory...?
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pjiddy
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Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 29057
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Hard_Butter wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | The Lakers are bad right now beyond Vogel, but let's get this over with. Bring on Fizdale.
Let's see what the real problem is. |
Fizdale wouldn't be the answer either. Perhaps losing Kidd and Hollins was a bigger blow than expected. Maybe making sure keeping Dudz on the bench would've helped. All I know is that he's lost the team. Good guy. Great defensive coach, but not a leader. And he's been exposed offensively. Was he dealt a bad hand? Sure. But the team shouldn't be this bad. A new voice, any voice might help ala Bickerstaff.
At the very least, give this poor man an offensive guru.... |
A new voice won’t overcome the unbalanced roster. Roster construction is the problem. |
He's been dealt a fake good hand so the line when he's fired will be, "how can you not win with three superstars?" But a roster with three forwards - all 36 years old - and eight guards 6'5 or shorter doesn't make much sense in today's NBA, especially on defense.
Pelinka flipped the roster from defense to offense this summer, Vogel isn't an offense guy, and now the team has tuned him out. G'bye, Frank. LeBron has his guy Fizdale waiting in the wings - though I've always understood Fizdale to be a pretty mediocre offensive coach as well - and a post-firing dead cat bounce combined with roster rationalization via trade (bye THT!), post-deadline signings, and health for bigger perimeter defenders in Ariza/Reaves should put them on a better trajectory. But a championship caliber trajectory...? |
They will totally wait to fire Vogel until Nunn and Ariza are back to fully juice Fiz’s dead cat bounce. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Hard_Butter wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | The Lakers are bad right now beyond Vogel, but let's get this over with. Bring on Fizdale.
Let's see what the real problem is. |
Fizdale wouldn't be the answer either. Perhaps losing Kidd and Hollins was a bigger blow than expected. Maybe making sure keeping Dudz on the bench would've helped. All I know is that he's lost the team. Good guy. Great defensive coach, but not a leader. And he's been exposed offensively. Was he dealt a bad hand? Sure. But the team shouldn't be this bad. A new voice, any voice might help ala Bickerstaff.
At the very least, give this poor man an offensive guru.... |
A new voice won’t overcome the unbalanced roster. Roster construction is the problem. |
He's been dealt a fake good hand so the line when he's fired will be, "how can you not win with three superstars?" But a roster with three forwards - all 36 years old - and eight guards 6'5 or shorter doesn't make much sense in today's NBA, especially on defense.
Pelinka flipped the roster from defense to offense this summer, Vogel isn't an offense guy, and now the team has tuned him out. G'bye, Frank. LeBron has his guy Fizdale waiting in the wings - though I've always understood Fizdale to be a pretty mediocre offensive coach as well - and a post-firing dead cat bounce combined with roster rationalization via trade (bye THT!), post-deadline signings, and health for bigger perimeter defenders in Ariza/Reaves should put them on a better trajectory. But a championship caliber trajectory...? |
They will totally wait to fire Vogel until Nunn and Ariza are back to fully juice Fiz’s dead cat bounce. |
I'll take whatever results in better basketball. It's so lifeless and ugly to watch this season.
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Lakerz113
Star Player
Joined: 15 Mar 2015
Posts: 2445
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Hard_Butter wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | The Lakers are bad right now beyond Vogel, but let's get this over with. Bring on Fizdale.
Let's see what the real problem is. |
Fizdale wouldn't be the answer either. Perhaps losing Kidd and Hollins was a bigger blow than expected. Maybe making sure keeping Dudz on the bench would've helped. All I know is that he's lost the team. Good guy. Great defensive coach, but not a leader. And he's been exposed offensively. Was he dealt a bad hand? Sure. But the team shouldn't be this bad. A new voice, any voice might help ala Bickerstaff.
At the very least, give this poor man an offensive guru.... |
Who else would it be besides Fizdale? He's a LeBron guy going back to Miami and who's out there not currently under contract? D'Antoni? |
Didn’t everyone like Atkinson a few years back? |
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Outspoken
Star Player
Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 8450
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| I actually don't see Vogel getting fired, as long as we are on playoff contention. Now if we go on a losing streak, that is different. But losing, winning, in playoff contention doesn't seem it'll get him fired. |
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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46639
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Hard_Butter wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | The Lakers are bad right now beyond Vogel, but let's get this over with. Bring on Fizdale.
Let's see what the real problem is. |
Fizdale wouldn't be the answer either. Perhaps losing Kidd and Hollins was a bigger blow than expected. Maybe making sure keeping Dudz on the bench would've helped. All I know is that he's lost the team. Good guy. Great defensive coach, but not a leader. And he's been exposed offensively. Was he dealt a bad hand? Sure. But the team shouldn't be this bad. A new voice, any voice might help ala Bickerstaff.
At the very least, give this poor man an offensive guru.... |
Who else would it be besides Fizdale? He's a LeBron guy going back to Miami and who's out there not currently under contract? D'Antoni? |
Once again, even if the Lakers fire Vogel... the team can only name Phil Handy or David Fizdale a interim coach for the season until the off season when the team can start evaluating the coaching search, firing Vogel now all but makes the management admit that this season is a wash and they are throwing it away. |
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KingKobe20
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Joined: 14 Jul 2006
Posts: 18651
Location: L.A County, 26 miles away from Staples Center
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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Last night showed us a lot more how badly we miss Jason Kidd and Lionel Hollins.
What kind of playbook do we have  In one of the overtimes all we did was post up Lebron asking him to ISO every time.
No dive cuts, no pick and pop/rolls, AD on the perimeter most of the time
An then the defense.... |
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58336
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| One thing about these Lakers, they still talk like it's just about some development internally with their execution and stuff and they'll go on a run (winning streak etc). I don't see it. The talent is there, but right now I see a team that lacks a starting level 2 guard, and doesn't have a good system for their best players. I don't see how that will suddenly change. We are who are, IMO. We'll improve with Lebron health, but until we trade for some defensive players and allow Frank to run the system he knows works, we're going to stay where we are. |
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Outspoken
Star Player
Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 8450
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | One thing about these Lakers, they still talk like it's just about some development internally with their execution and stuff and they'll go on a run (winning streak etc). I don't see it. The talent is there, but right now I see a team that lacks a starting level 2 guard, and doesn't have a good system for their best players. I don't see how that will suddenly change. We are who are, IMO. We'll improve with Lebron health, but until we trade for some defensive players and allow Frank to run the system he knows works, we're going to stay where we are. |
What system is that? And how do we know that system works? |
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Polarbear
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 6129
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Starting to be a lot of suggestions that Vogal is feeling the heat and could get fired |
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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46639
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Polarbear wrote: | | Starting to be a lot of suggestions that Vogal is feeling the heat and could get fired |
If he gets fired fine but it better not be because we have Fizdale as the guy that replaces him this season, if we had the chance to pick up Mike D’Antoni right now or Terry Stotts.. I would support the idea of it more but that seems unlikely until the off season so I think the Lakers will decide to stick with Vogel for now especially if the team starts putting together some wins in the next few games.
Last edited by Inspector Gadget on Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:51 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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pjiddy
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Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 29057
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Polarbear wrote: | | Starting to be a lot of suggestions that Vogal is feeling the heat and could get fired |
If he gets fired fine but it better not be because we have Fizdale as the guy that replaces him this season, if we had the chance to pick up Mike D’Antoni right now or Terry Stotts.. I would support the idea of it more but that seems unlikely until the off season so I think the Lakers will decide to stick with Vogel for now especially if the team starts putting together some wins in the next few games. |
They're not gonna get some random coach and have him instill a system with no training camp. And MDA already did this exact same scenario (taking over an underperforming super team with no training camp) and got all the blame for it. How is Stotts gonna get the team's ear?
It's either keep ride with Vogel or go with Fizdale. Those are the options. |
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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46639
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Polarbear wrote: | | Starting to be a lot of suggestions that Vogal is feeling the heat and could get fired |
If he gets fired fine but it better not be because we have Fizdale as the guy that replaces him this season, if we had the chance to pick up Mike D’Antoni right now or Terry Stotts.. I would support the idea of it more but that seems unlikely until the off season so I think the Lakers will decide to stick with Vogel for now especially if the team starts putting together some wins in the next few games. |
They're not gonna get some random coach and have him instill a system with no training camp. And MDA already did this exact same scenario (taking over an underperforming super team with no training camp) and got all the blame for it. How is Stotts gonna get the team's ear?
It's either keep ride with Vogel or go with Fizdale. Those are the options. |
Which makes the noise of Vogel being fired kinda dubious, Fizdale would let LeBron do whatever he wants because of his relationship, he would disrupt the team a lot worse then what we are seeing now, if we had something like this in mind then we should have just kept Jason Kidd. |
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LGFan
Star Player
Joined: 07 Jun 2021
Posts: 1860
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Polarbear wrote: | | Starting to be a lot of suggestions that Vogal is feeling the heat and could get fired |
If he gets fired fine but it better not be because we have Fizdale as the guy that replaces him this season, if we had the chance to pick up Mike D’Antoni right now or Terry Stotts.. I would support the idea of it more but that seems unlikely until the off season so I think the Lakers will decide to stick with Vogel for now especially if the team starts putting together some wins in the next few games. |
They're not gonna get some random coach and have him instill a system with no training camp. And MDA already did this exact same scenario (taking over an underperforming super team with no training camp) and got all the blame for it. How is Stotts gonna get the team's ear?
It's either keep ride with Vogel or go with Fizdale. Those are the options. |
Which makes the noise of Vogel being fired kinda dubious, Fizdale would let LeBron do whatever he wants because of his relationship, he would disrupt the team a lot worse then what we are seeing now, if we had something like this in mind then we should have just kept Jason Kidd. |
😂 |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Btw I’m probably in the minority here but I think Vogel is gonna wake this team up and there gonna go on a long winning streak while playing championship level basketball and the noise of Vogel being let go will go away and never get bought up again, all this talk about Vogel is more about the frustrations setting in with the Laker fan base and the members of the Lakers organization. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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I have said before, probably in this thread, but firing Vogel would accomplish nothing.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Btw I’m probably in the minority here but I think Vogel is gonna wake this team up and there gonna go on a long winning streak while playing championship level basketball and the noise of Vogel being let go will go away and never get bought up again, all this talk about Vogel is more about the frustrations setting in with the Laker fan base and the members of the Lakers organization. |
I predict:
1. Vogel will be fired by the end of December.
2. He will be replaced by Fizdale.
3. The change will not have a noticeable effect on the team. |
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58336
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:46 am Post subject: |
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Firing Vogel only happens if AD/Bron support it. And Jeanie would have to sign off. IMO, that's 3 people who I have yet to see would want that.
If the Lakers were even thinking of letting Vogel go, they would never let Kidd go. The rumor was Kidd was to take over when Vogel leaves in a few years.
Fizdale as head coach when you let Kidd go? I don't see it, TBH. Last summer Kidd was in talks for a new HC job and Vogel was in talks for an extension. I feel if they weren't high on Vogel anymore or had doubts about him, they would have let him go then, and gone with Kidd. Kidd was seen in 2019 as the future Lakers HC.
The Lakers current expectation is that they will be patient and not let the talk get to them, and they believe in their plan/system. That things will be better as the season evolves. That's the talk from AD/Bron.
I can't see a coach being fired at that mindset. If we are in March and still .500, then that's another thing. Clearly the plan failed to improve. Right now they seem to believe in their plan, even though us fans are having a hard time seeing how this will work.
My concern is that I think this is starting to get out of Vogel's control, in the sense, he can't really do anymore than he is. He's tried a ton of lineups. He's tried to change AD's role around. He's gotten Westbrook involved. In the end, they took away his best defenders and his coaching staff, and now want him to create some magic with a roster that doesn't scream defense. It's putting him between a rock and a hard place. How can we become an elite team without elite D? Vogel's teams need elite D. So, unless Rob helps him out with some moves, we're sort of stuck. |
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av3773
Star Player
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3751
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:01 am Post subject: |
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| Seems like a lot of folks are excusing Vogel, using the "new team" and "injury" excuse....and that's what it is an excuse....there might be some merit to that point of view if we weren't not only losing to cellar teams, but also cellar teams that have a number of key injuries of their own....while we have consistently rolled out at least 2 current nba all star talent.....a coach in any sport should be able to motivate a team to wins in that circumstance...he's not getting it done in that regard....he is also not showing he is very capable of adapting his coaching style successfully when the roster isn't constructed of a lot of good on ball defenders.....complaining about the roster is pointless, it is what it is and any good NBA coach should be able to adapt their play when they have three current nba all stars....in fact I can't even think of a team in recent memory that has one of the top players in the nba, another who is top 10ish and another who is top 15-20ish play so horribly...can anyone else come up with a team that has performed so poorly....not to mention we are getting solid play from some of the additional role players on any given night...melo, reaves, monk, tht......at least one of those players has had it clicking on a night.....so if vogel cant get it done for whatever reason he needs to go......the Lakers are not going to wait until the Summer....we have all star talent now...we are not going to wait until bron is a year older, etc....I give him a week or so...if we don't see significant improvement I think he's gone. |
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cathy78
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Joined: 21 Jan 2013
Posts: 1415
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:07 am Post subject: |
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How about we support Vogel because he is not a bad coach.
How about the whole front office and organization supports him so he can actually do the work he is supposed to do.
How about we get him an offensive assistant that can compliment him. Just because he is not the offensive genius we fans expect doesn't mean we have to throw away all the things he does very well.
How about the front office constructs a better roster next time. |
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cthroatgtr
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Joined: 21 Aug 2005
Posts: 1375
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:44 am Post subject: |
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This is mostly on Pelinka. We all new WB was going to be a tough fit anyways, but the bigger concern was the cost of talent. Regardless of opinions of them individually, KCP, Kuz and Harrell was a lot of diverse talent. Adding in WB meant that you had to gut the team further with no chips left to play. It was exasperated by the additions after which are a bunch of older, undersized players of which very few can play any defense.
I am not letting Vogel off the hook he is still caught up in the big lineup concept which isn't working as well with run down DJ and way past his prime Dwight. Though going small they end up way too small with LBJ, AD, WB and two undersized guards to fill it out. Then AD sits and then you really have to go with Dwight because it gets really small after that.
Reminds me of two recent teams. The Rockets with Pippen, Barkley & Olajuwon and the Lakers of Dwight, Kobe, Nash. 3 superstars actually has rarely worked it creates a bad mix and limited roster. Bucks, Lakers, Raptors (last 3) did not have a big 3. Warriors did when they added KD. Spurs sort of did but they grew up together and then added Leonard. Only other big 3 to really win was the Heat.
Depressing season. They will need to find a trade to solve the problem, but right now THT is the only chip they have left to play. |
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