Frank Vogel Official Lakers Head Coach for 3-Years
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Are you happy about Vogel becoming our coach?
No
11%
 11%  [ 56 ]
Yes
54%
 54%  [ 258 ]
Neutral
33%
 33%  [ 158 ]
Total Votes : 472

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LakersPimp
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:37 pm    Post subject:

scout_0 wrote:
I laugh at the excuses people keep making for this guy.

He did not use our players the right way from the start.

In modern NBA you can not play

Caruso (main play maker)
THT (0 outside shooting)
Kuzma (0 outside shooting and no1 to playmake for his cuts)
Morris
Harrell (undersized)

and expect to build something.

Now he is not playing trez because the numbers tell him to... LMAO

I am a Data Scientist and numbers are like a detective using dna evidence... You use it to find clues, it doesn't tell you who the criminal really is.

In this case the criminal is vogel.

He then thought it would be smart to post up andre drummond... in the modern NBA you don't post up. How many times have you seen ayton post up? ALL his points come off the pick and roll or on the move! Why was Dwifht so successful in his role last year?

Not bringing dennis off the bench when he clearly looks uncomfortable next to bron and ad and then you want to throw in drummond the paint clogger.

You are setting up your players for failure.

Trez should of been our starting C next to Davis.

LeBron our Point guard.

Dennis our C.Payne off the bench.

Kuzma had to be feature MORE. Of course he is going to suck out there, he was asked all season to become bruce bowen when thats not his strength.

Marc Gasol benched and basically removed from any action... this man was the defensive archor of a historic defensive team just 1-2 years ago.

too many inconsistencies. When you go do a job you want to know every day what you are dealing with and specialize in that.


THT showed great scoring potential and even racked up 10+ assists in some games... then he disappears! Yes his defense is not the best but from time to time insert him iwith the starters to give kcp a quick break and see if he can create some easy shots for bron ...

Matthews is a proven shooter and defender yet he benched him almost half the season...

I almost forgot not playing Morris who was essential to our chip last year...
and then starting him

there is not a consistent logic to what this man wants

The ball does not swing side to side, the bodies don't move, not enough energy... this is all on the coach.


All these guys saying "we cant hit open shots" never played bball. I rather take a shot with a guy running to my face if the ball is being swong to me in my shooting pocket in the flow of the offense with 10-14 seconds left on the clock then a wide open desperation 3 at the end of the clock.

tltr I dislike vogel
you must be inside my brain! 💯
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Halflife
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:39 pm    Post subject:

#1 defense in the league. when healthy a top 10 offense.
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unleasHell
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:52 pm    Post subject:

I'd fire him,

For not starting Kuz and not playing Harold
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pjiddy
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 7:14 pm    Post subject:

This season has proven how overrated he is. In terms of tactics and adjustments, he's almost an F. Offense is an F- when weighting that he has AD and Lebron.

And we're stuck with him for the foreseeable future because he won a title! Not great!
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 7:16 pm    Post subject:

BTW, should have hired Monty Williams!
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scout_0
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 7:17 pm    Post subject:

This (bleep) guy is a trip.

Went from not playing gasol, to starting him..

from starting drummond to benching him

from not playing morris to starting him

from not playing harrell to playing him in the last game all in one series.

some call it adjustments I call it not being an NBA coach.

clearly he is just throwing (bleep) at a wall to see what sticks.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 7:18 pm    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
BTW, should have hired Monty Williams!


IIRC, Monty turned us down but maybe because we didn’t offer 5 years.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 7:34 pm    Post subject:

scout_0 wrote:
This (bleep) guy is a trip.

Went from not playing gasol, to starting him..

from starting drummond to benching him

from not playing morris to starting him

from not playing harrell to playing him in the last game all in one series.

some call it adjustments I call it not being an NBA coach.

clearly he is just throwing (bleep) at a wall to see what sticks.


Thats what happens when your 2 best players are broken.
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scout_0
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 7:37 pm    Post subject:

Lakeshow323 wrote:
scout_0 wrote:
This (bleep) guy is a trip.

Went from not playing gasol, to starting him..

from starting drummond to benching him

from not playing morris to starting him

from not playing harrell to playing him in the last game all in one series.

some call it adjustments I call it not being an NBA coach.

clearly he is just throwing (bleep) at a wall to see what sticks.


Thats what happens when your 2 best players are broken.


Really? what about denver without its allstar PG? what about cp3 being 10%?

excuses. LeBron is fine.

If your #2 scorer davis is hurt why wouldnt you play your 16ppg sixth man of the year?


Last edited by scout_0 on Thu Jun 03, 2021 7:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 7:38 pm    Post subject:

14 total team points in the 2nd quarter?

LBJ and Rondo covered for his non existent originality in terms of offensive schemes.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:56 am    Post subject:

Even with a healthy LeBron and Ad we would always go through extended scoring droughts. That's def a product of his offense....or lack of creativity on that end. The defense always held up though.

The injuries showed how simple his scheme is...and when they started to get a little stronger...he inserts lbj and let's his offense take over. I'm super disappointed in the lack of offense and his rotations. Never did he play ad and trezz together....even now...we know tht can score....he should have groomed him to run a transition offense to be a change of pace from LeBron....there was no versatility in our game...some of that is personnel...much of it was coaching.
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miggz23
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:24 am    Post subject:

Really like Vogel, but this team needs an offensive coach... This team already have a defensive identity. But what’s the point of having the best defense when you can’t score?... Warriors made the exact move by firing Mark Jackson, and hiring a guy like Kerr. Who was able to install an offensive system that unleash that team, and still maintained a top defensive team.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:30 am    Post subject:

We can't change every 2 years. The Lakers should hire a better offensive assistant coach than Kidd though.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:41 am    Post subject:

SPO200 wrote:
We can't change every 2 years. The Lakers should hire a better offensive assistant coach than Kidd though.


Kidd is probably gone and might get a head coaching job.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:47 am    Post subject:

Correct this statement if false.

Lakers were up 2-1 when AD was healthy.
After game 3, the Lakers game plans looked solid and Frank made adjustments.

When AD suffered the injury in game 3 he never came out strong in game 4 but even then it was competitive (we had a lead and then I think he got hurt when the score was equal or one possession game). After the AD injury we have looked horrendous. Second half game 4. Game 5. Game 6.

Is it that Frank built his entire scheme around AD and without AD he had no good backup plan? Yes maybe. Does that make him a bad coach for AD and Bron? I don’t think so. They were up 2-1. They beat this Suns team with AD healthy even with Bron limited.

Look at Steve Kerr since he lost Klay. Two lottery years basically. Even with a MVP level Curry. If you began this series without AD, and knowing Bron is limited, not a single betting person would have picked Lakers without AD over the Suns. This is basically what lost us the series. No AD in second half game 4, blow out. Huge massacre in game 5. AD basically didn’t even play game 6, he was in no position to be able to play, could barely move like AD.

The team chemistry was (bleep), and I put that ok not having guys like Howard, Danny Green and Rondo. Instead having me first guys like Dennis, Trez, etc. And injuries hurt chemistry and continuity. There was a lack of fire from Bron as well these playoffs. AD began the year with a lack of fire. Cant put this on the coaching. There are parts you can put on coaching (how we used Dennis, Trez etc) but the coaching got us in the playoffs with that number one defense. No way with all the injuries to Bron/AD we even make the playoffs without that defensive ability.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:54 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Correct this statement if false.

Lakers were up 2-1 when AD was healthy.
After game 3, the Lakers game plans looked solid and Frank made adjustments.

When AD suffered the injury in game 3 he never came out strong in game 4 but even then it was competitive (we had a lead and then I think he got hurt when the score was equal or one possession game). After the AD injury we have looked horrendous. Second half game 4. Game 5. Game 6.

Is it that Frank built his entire scheme around AD and without AD he had no good backup plan? Yes maybe. Does that make him a bad coach for AD and Bron? I don’t think so. They were up 2-1. They beat this Suns team with AD healthy even with Bron limited.

Look at Steve Kerr since he lost Klay. Two lottery years basically. Even with a MVP level Curry.


This is a really good question but it's not just Vogel's choice, it's also the team makeup that determines whether a non-LBJ/AD centric system would even be worth implementing. Sure the team would be more resilient and do better when one or the other is off the floor, but would it be as devastating when both are on the floor and firing on all cylinders? I confess I don't know the answer.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:09 am    Post subject:

LakersPimp wrote:
scout_0 wrote:
I laugh at the excuses people keep making for this guy.

He did not use our players the right way from the start.

In modern NBA you can not play

Caruso (main play maker)
THT (0 outside shooting)
Kuzma (0 outside shooting and no1 to playmake for his cuts)
Morris
Harrell (undersized)

and expect to build something.

Now he is not playing trez because the numbers tell him to... LMAO

I am a Data Scientist and numbers are like a detective using dna evidence... You use it to find clues, it doesn't tell you who the criminal really is.

In this case the criminal is vogel.

He then thought it would be smart to post up andre drummond... in the modern NBA you don't post up. How many times have you seen ayton post up? ALL his points come off the pick and roll or on the move! Why was Dwifht so successful in his role last year?

Not bringing dennis off the bench when he clearly looks uncomfortable next to bron and ad and then you want to throw in drummond the paint clogger.

You are setting up your players for failure.

Trez should of been our starting C next to Davis.

LeBron our Point guard.

Dennis our C.Payne off the bench.

Kuzma had to be feature MORE. Of course he is going to suck out there, he was asked all season to become bruce bowen when thats not his strength.

Marc Gasol benched and basically removed from any action... this man was the defensive archor of a historic defensive team just 1-2 years ago.

too many inconsistencies. When you go do a job you want to know every day what you are dealing with and specialize in that.


THT showed great scoring potential and even racked up 10+ assists in some games... then he disappears! Yes his defense is not the best but from time to time insert him iwith the starters to give kcp a quick break and see if he can create some easy shots for bron ...

Matthews is a proven shooter and defender yet he benched him almost half the season...

I almost forgot not playing Morris who was essential to our chip last year...
and then starting him

there is not a consistent logic to what this man wants

The ball does not swing side to side, the bodies don't move, not enough energy... this is all on the coach.


All these guys saying "we cant hit open shots" never played bball. I rather take a shot with a guy running to my face if the ball is being swong to me in my shooting pocket in the flow of the offense with 10-14 seconds left on the clock then a wide open desperation 3 at the end of the clock.

tltr I dislike vogel
you must be inside my brain! 💯


Armchair coaching.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:14 am    Post subject:

Hire Alvin Gentry as an offensive assistant, or bust.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:32 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Correct this statement if false.

Lakers were up 2-1 when AD was healthy.
After game 3, the Lakers game plans looked solid and Frank made adjustments.

When AD suffered the injury in game 3 he never came out strong in game 4 but even then it was competitive (we had a lead and then I think he got hurt when the score was equal or one possession game). After the AD injury we have looked horrendous. Second half game 4. Game 5. Game 6.

Is it that Frank built his entire scheme around AD and without AD he had no good backup plan? Yes maybe. Does that make him a bad coach for AD and Bron? I don’t think so. They were up 2-1. They beat this Suns team with AD healthy even with Bron limited.

Look at Steve Kerr since he lost Klay. Two lottery years basically. Even with a MVP level Curry. If you began this series without AD, and knowing Bron is limited, not a single betting person would have picked Lakers without AD over the Suns. This is basically what lost us the series. No AD in second half game 4, blow out. Huge massacre in game 5. AD basically didn’t even play game 6, he was in no position to be able to play, could barely move like AD.

The team chemistry was (bleep), and I put that ok not having guys like Howard, Danny Green and Rondo. Instead having me first guys like Dennis, Trez, etc. And injuries hurt chemistry and continuity. There was a lack of fire from Bron as well these playoffs. AD began the year with a lack of fire. Cant put this on the coaching. There are parts you can put on coaching (how we used Dennis, Trez etc) but the coaching got us in the playoffs with that number one defense. No way with all the injuries to Bron/AD we even make the playoffs without that defensive ability.


Agree.
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Vin
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:46 am    Post subject:

Once Lebron wasn't 100% and AD went down we were not beating the Suns, end of story.

Start Harrel, bench Drummond, start McLemore, put Mathews at powerfoward, start Gasol. Doesn't matter the Lakers were desperate and done.

Last year Vogel was an amazing coach, we lucked out on him.
And now after an injury riddled season he's awful and we need to fire him.

Lakers need continuity.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:06 am    Post subject:

Just figure out what to do with the Center position. Vogel will be fine if he can just shore up his rotations and stay with it early on. Vogel was hampered by the shenanigans of one Robert Pelinka.
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:20 am    Post subject:

Vin wrote:
Once Lebron wasn't 100% and AD went down we were not beating the Suns, end of story.

Start Harrel, bench Drummond, start McLemore, put Mathews at powerfoward, start Gasol. Doesn't matter the Lakers were desperate and done.

Last year Vogel was an amazing coach, we lucked out on him.
And now after an injury riddled season he's awful and we need to fire him.

Lakers need continuity.

Yes, well said.

Two years ago, Lakers had more talent to work with when it comes to scorers and shot creators sans Bron. So when Bron went down, they still had Ingram, Ball, Kuz etc. And yet the team could not stay aflot and even missed the playoffs by quite a bit. Bron missed around 30% of the teams games that year. This year Bron missed almost 40% of the teams games. He is two years older and had a shorter offseason. AD, missed I believe HALF the season at 50%. Yet, we made the playoffs, were up 2-1 until again the health issues of AD kicked in.

At some point, we have to stop whining about things and looking at fault from people that have proven themselves. Both in Indiana and here, Vogel has proved himself as an elite defensive coach who his players will play hard for and respect. He won a ring as a head coach. How many times has Phil Jackson won a ring when his two franchise guys miss 50% and 40% of the season and the supporting cast has made significant changes - the answer is also zero.

We never had a real shot at the title this year, but we should have beaten the Suns in 6 if we had a healthy AD for 6 games. We got him for 3. Now Frank deserves criticism for some of the holes and issues we saw this year. The Center position for one. He did not really identify one go to player there. The way he used Dennis, I do not agree with (But Dennis also came in demanding max money and a starting position, that was on Pelinka more than Frank).

I do think we would be best served with adding a PG like mind on the bench, like Rondo was. Bron saw the game one way, but Rondo saw it another and helped. I kept harping about Rondo all last summer. He was someone that compensated for some of this coaching staffs weakness. So we need to get Frank a guy like that on the bench, who is a player and coach on the floor. Frank is not perfect. but I would easily say he is the best head coach the Lakers have had since PJ. Even the adjustments we saw in this series from game 1 to game 2, it put us in complete control of the series. After game 3, no one would have bet on the Suns winning the series if AD stays healthy. That one AD injury in game 3 (that caused the bigger injury in game 4) ended the series for us.

Just like with showtime, or the Shaq-Kobe era. If you get an injury to Magic or Kareem. Or you get an injury to Shaq. The series is likely over against a top 2 seed. This was not some weak lower seed. This was a very good Suns team with Paul, Booker and Ayton. 3 all-star level players and some quality shooters. This was a WCF level match up, and one, we were winning 2-1 until AD was hurt. No guarantee we win the series with AD, but we definitely had control of it, and the Suns had NO answer for AD and the way we were defending.
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oaktown_dimond
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:12 am    Post subject:

man, i really wish rondo didn't have another year on his $15M contract. come back to us and do what he knows how to do. playoff rondo and coach rondo. maybe he'd like to be an assistant under vogel in a year or two?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 12:10 pm    Post subject:

The 2019-20 Lakers had way less offensive talent compared to this year's Laker, but that title team were a pretty good offense in Vogel's first year due to how the pieces fit around Bron & AD. In the 2019-20 season, Lakers were 11th in ppg, 11th in pace, and 11th in offensive rating.

The 2020-21 Lakers had much more talent compared to the title team, but were bad fits all around. The 2020-21 Lakers were 22nd in ppg, 16th in pace, and 24th in offensive rating. It all comes down to Bron & AD's health for how far the offense will go, but Lakers might need to run back more of the blueprint of the title team instead of having too many chefs in the kitchen with Dennis, Harrell, and Drummond who cared much more about their future contracts than invested in sacrificing for the team.

You can put the blame on Vogel for not using Harrell correctly or not being a good offensive coach, however you can't blame Vogel for the Lakers role players being spooked passing up wide open shots or bricking wide open shots. Hard to run a modern offense with the way the roster is currently constructed since KCP is the only true volume shooter on the roster, while Wes' shooting tanked becoming a Laker, and both Marc & Caruso not taking enough 3 pointers. Teams can just solely worry about packing the paint with Dennis, Bron, AD, and a traditional big man at center in the starting lineup. I feel the blame should be more on the injuries and roster construction for the poor offense this season than it being on Vogel imo.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 12:14 pm    Post subject:

oaktown_dimond wrote:
man, i really wish rondo didn't have another year on his $15M contract. come back to us and do what he knows how to do. playoff rondo and coach rondo. maybe he'd like to be an assistant under vogel in a year or two?

rondo hasnt been great this playoffs and a team that needed him traded him mid season. hes done.
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