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Halflife
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Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 11309
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 Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2022 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| GOODRICH25 wrote: | I just said they were healthy for that entire season.
So only the teams that lost didnt want to be there, how convenient of a excuse. |
You’re making it sound like being healthy is the normal. Being injured is a huge part of them. I say the only reason they won was because
A) there is searchable video from the bubble of guys not wanting to be there
B) they had a luxurious 4+ month break that let them heal up.
When bron led laker teams have to play real seasons they make lottery or get bounced in first round for whatever reason.
I am grateful for bubble title. Now it’s time to move on from bron AD duo. |
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ahaider
Star Player
Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Posts: 3345
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2022 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | GOODRICH25 wrote: | I just said they were healthy for that entire season.
So only the teams that lost didnt want to be there, how convenient of a excuse. |
You’re making it sound like being healthy is the normal. Being injured is a huge part of them. I say the only reason they won was because
A) there is searchable video from the bubble of guys not wanting to be there
B) they had a luxurious 4+ month break that let them heal up.
When bron led laker teams have to play real seasons they make lottery or get bounced in first round for whatever reason.
I am grateful for bubble title. Now it’s time to move on from bron AD duo. |
Half-life, while I do agree with a lot of your points, I think you’re missing a couple things. You very well may be right that it’s time to move on from Lebron & AD. However, what you’re proposing is a brave new world back into the realms of lottery. You’re also referring to a path with not really tangible ways to improve.
We don’t have our picks until 2026 at soonest. Furthermore, Lebron passing KAJ in the scoring title as a Laker is important to Jeannie and the Lakers. As a team, they want the brand associated with that moment. Lastly, in your proposal we’d be moving off both those guys at the moment in time when their value is lowest. Lebron would be a FA the following summer. AD is distressed in terms of value. Your best bet would probably moving him to CHI and receiving a package rich of FRP’s.
So while on the outset you may very well be right that our title window is over and we should retool. The execution of that retool is not to be trusted as the path to achieving it is murky at best. It’s hard enough to attract the top of top FA’s - to jettison both at this moment in time with our front office - would probably immediately get Jeannie to have all her vendors pull out of contracts. Not to mention ticket sales would go down the drain.
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Halflife
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 11309
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2022 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| ahaider wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | GOODRICH25 wrote: | I just said they were healthy for that entire season.
So only the teams that lost didnt want to be there, how convenient of a excuse. |
You’re making it sound like being healthy is the normal. Being injured is a huge part of them. I say the only reason they won was because
A) there is searchable video from the bubble of guys not wanting to be there
B) they had a luxurious 4+ month break that let them heal up.
When bron led laker teams have to play real seasons they make lottery or get bounced in first round for whatever reason.
I am grateful for bubble title. Now it’s time to move on from bron AD duo. |
Half-life, while I do agree with a lot of your points, I think you’re missing a couple things. You very well may be right that it’s time to move on from Lebron & AD. However, what you’re proposing is a brave new world back into the realms of lottery. You’re also referring to a path with not really tangible ways to improve.
We don’t have our picks until 2026 at soonest. Furthermore, Lebron passing KAJ in the scoring title as a Laker is important to Jeannie and the Lakers. As a team, they want the brand associated with that moment. Lastly, in your proposal we’d be moving off both those guys at the moment in time when their value is lowest. Lebron would be a FA the following summer. AD is distressed in terms of value. Your best bet would probably moving him to CHI and receiving a package rich of FRP’s.
So while on the outset you may very well be right that our title window is over and we should retool. The execution of that retool is not to be trusted as the path to achieving it is murky at best. It’s hard enough to attract the top of top FA’s - to jettison both at this moment in time with our front office - would probably immediately get Jeannie to have all her vendors pull out of contracts. Not to mention ticket sales would go down the drain. |
You’re right. I just think ADs value isn’t as low as people think and think our rebuild can start now by moving him, let bron play out his contract. He gets kaj then can move on and we can all see how dumb we may or may not be for not extending him.
But your outlook is way more practical and probably in line with Rob and Jeanie. |
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GOODRICH25
Star Player
Joined: 17 Jun 2017
Posts: 1818
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2022 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | GOODRICH25 wrote: | I just said they were healthy for that entire season.
So only the teams that lost didnt want to be there, how convenient of a excuse. |
You’re making it sound like being healthy is the normal. Being injured is a huge part of them. I say the only reason they won was because
A) there is searchable video from the bubble of guys not wanting to be there
B) they had a luxurious 4+ month break that let them heal up.
When bron led laker teams have to play real seasons they make lottery or get bounced in first round for whatever reason.
I am grateful for bubble title. Now it’s time to move on from bron AD duo. |
That doesnt apply to THAT season, thats the point. THAT season they were both healthy. What happened in other seasons doesnt apply. This is what you should focus on. We played, we were the best and hottest team in basketball, we were on a roll nefore it got shut down. The bubble hurt us because we lost that momentum, and we lost our home court advantage for the playoffs. You repeating they cant stay healthy in different seasons has no importance here. The break you keep mentioning, as i said, it came at the expense of the following season, while it did not help us during that season.
Guys not wanting to be there is excuses for me, but do share the videos
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Halflife
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 11309
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2022 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| GOODRICH25 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | GOODRICH25 wrote: | I just said they were healthy for that entire season.
So only the teams that lost didnt want to be there, how convenient of a excuse. |
You’re making it sound like being healthy is the normal. Being injured is a huge part of them. I say the only reason they won was because
A) there is searchable video from the bubble of guys not wanting to be there
B) they had a luxurious 4+ month break that let them heal up.
When bron led laker teams have to play real seasons they make lottery or get bounced in first round for whatever reason.
I am grateful for bubble title. Now it’s time to move on from bron AD duo. |
That doesnt apply to THAT season, thats the point. THAT season they were both healthy. What happened in other seasons doesnt apply. This is what you should focus on. We played, we were the best and hottest team in basketball, we were on a roll nefore it got shut down. The bubble hurt us because we lost that momentum, and we lost our home court advantage for the playoffs. You repeating they cant stay healthy in different seasons has no importance here. The break you keep mentioning, as i said, it came at the expense of the following season, while it did not help us during that season.
Guys not wanting to be there is excuses for me, but do share the videos |
It does apply. The only reason they were healthy is because of bubble and schedule. No bubble equals no health equals no ring. I don’t care what they did that season pre lock down. Pre and post bubble show bron breaks down and so does AD when there is no bubble.
They were only able to maintain health because they got a 4 month break. If you disagree show me otherwise while they are wearing lakers gear. |
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GOODRICH25
Star Player
Joined: 17 Jun 2017
Posts: 1818
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2022 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | GOODRICH25 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | GOODRICH25 wrote: | I just said they were healthy for that entire season.
So only the teams that lost didnt want to be there, how convenient of a excuse. |
You’re making it sound like being healthy is the normal. Being injured is a huge part of them. I say the only reason they won was because
A) there is searchable video from the bubble of guys not wanting to be there
B) they had a luxurious 4+ month break that let them heal up.
When bron led laker teams have to play real seasons they make lottery or get bounced in first round for whatever reason.
I am grateful for bubble title. Now it’s time to move on from bron AD duo. |
That doesnt apply to THAT season, thats the point. THAT season they were both healthy. What happened in other seasons doesnt apply. This is what you should focus on. We played, we were the best and hottest team in basketball, we were on a roll nefore it got shut down. The bubble hurt us because we lost that momentum, and we lost our home court advantage for the playoffs. You repeating they cant stay healthy in different seasons has no importance here. The break you keep mentioning, as i said, it came at the expense of the following season, while it did not help us during that season.
Guys not wanting to be there is excuses for me, but do share the videos |
It does apply. The only reason they were healthy is because of bubble and schedule. No bubble equals no health equals no ring. I don’t care what they did that season pre lock down. Pre and post bubble show bron breaks down and so does AD when there is no bubble.
They were only able to maintain health because they got a 4 month break. If you disagree show me otherwise while they are wearing lakers gear. |
They played what, 70 games before the break. Your theory is wrong, the evidence is in that season. Your narrative is they got a break in the middle of the season, when the season was basically over. We were no.1, we were hot, we could have rested a bit remaining games. It was all fine.
And you still didnt address us having to play the next season right out of the bubble. Like it didnt matter at all, but the 4 month break is everything to you. Youre wrong but too much into your narratives to admit it
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phantasyman
Starting Rotation
Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 598
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| Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2022 2:15 am Post subject: |
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| Please get rid of AD while you can still get value for him. He is quickly declining. Can't even play defense anymore without fouling. The injuries will continue and you can already see it is taking a toll on him mentally. Trade him for young talent this summer. |
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J.C. Smith
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 11862
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| Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2022 2:53 am Post subject: |
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| phantasyman wrote: | | Please get rid of AD while you can still get value for him. He is quickly declining. Can't even play defense anymore without fouling. |
While I don't have a problem with moving AD if a deal that makes sense comes along, I'm not sure what you are talking about with the defense. The numbers seem to indicate otherwise.
With AD this year the team was like 13th in the team in defensive rating (someone please correct me if that is wrong it's from memory but I believe it's correct). Without him they were by far the worst team in the league defensively.
He took 2.4 fouls in 35.1 minutes. During the title year he took 2.5 fouls in 34.4 minutes. So he fouled more frequently then. The year before that he took 2.4 fouls in 33 minutes, once again more frequently. Last season was the only time he took less fouls in the past 4 years. He also blocked the same number of shots (2.3 per game) that he did in his first year here, which is up 0.7 from last season. |
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wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 56592
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| Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2022 5:12 am Post subject: |
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^
With AD the team was starting to trend into the top 7 at one point defensively. That's with Lebron in complete scoring mode/taking every other game off mode and Westbrook being the worst possible fit for Vogel's defensive schemes.
The difference in AD on the team and not on the team at least in the first part of the season was something like top 10 defense vs bottom 10 defense. It was quite big. However when he returned the second time from injury it made no real change on our D, becaused it seemed everything the bad habits, the season being over already had kicked in (even if they didn't admit they all had checked out). It didn't look better with him either. The best defense we got was when all 3 of the big 3 were out and we ran those lineups with Reaves, Monk, McClung, Stanley etc. That's why Vogel even said "we finally played defense". It was quite fitting, it shows you how bad Westbrook/Lebron played on defense. Some of our games with WB/Lebron were literally the worst stat paddling one dimesional offense I have ever seen. |
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blackmamba08
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2015
Posts: 2372
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2022 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| Hope he does not get injured walking on the beach. |
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lakersfever714
Star Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016
Posts: 8628
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| Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2022 8:27 am Post subject: |
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We won't get much value for AD if all teams value draft picks highly now based on how all the top teams, except the Nets, are built from the ground up using their own draft picks.
I would still trade AD now because we're not gonna get more for him if we wait. I just don't see AD as a franchise player to build around. I mean if we trade him and he balls out and stays healthy, at least we've still got something back. But if we keep him and he stays injury proned with how his body is built, we'd have no future assets. Maybe we could start tanking in 2027 when we have our frp again and then hopefully have enough assets to form a championship contender 5 years later in 2032. Next possible championship in 10 years. Better late than never. |
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Halflife
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J.C. Smith
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 11862
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2022 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | The difference in AD on the team and not on the team at least in the first part of the season was something like top 10 defense vs bottom 10 defense. It was quite big. |
I went over them a couple of weeks ago and it was shockingly different. With AD they were an above average defensive team with all the other holes. Without him they were by far the worst team in the league when it came to points allowed per possession. |
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lakersfan8
Star Player
Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 2795
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2022 3:33 am Post subject: |
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| J.C. Smith wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | The difference in AD on the team and not on the team at least in the first part of the season was something like top 10 defense vs bottom 10 defense. It was quite big. |
I went over them a couple of weeks ago and it was shockingly different. With AD they were an above average defensive team with all the other holes. Without him they were by far the worst team in the league when it came to points allowed per possession. |
It is not difficult to understand why if you saw who was on our lineup to replace him when he was out |
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