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PenG_
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2022 5:47 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
PenG_ wrote:
Look at these playoffs, if you're not some crazy presence in the paint (Timelord), you better be able to space the floor for your stars.


What really hurt THT's development was having to play alongside Russ. Absolutely the worst pairing you can imagine with those two as they can't space the floor.


https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/202112210LAL.html

Russ/Wayne/THT/LeBron/DAJ
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2022 6:40 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
cthroatgtr wrote:
This is again about fit. He is best with the ball in his hands, which means he isn't going to play well with Lebron or Westbrook. Some of this is easy not sure why the team struggles so much to understand the basics of fit. If you don't trade for Russ, THT runs the second unit in a similar capacity.


That was meant for Nunn to do. But Nunn never played.


Correct so again, BAD fit. THT is a poor poor man's Lebron, probably more like a poor man's Harden without the 3 ball. He plays with the ball in his hands, not without it. You saw that late in the year when the team was eliminated and he went back to dominating the ball and played well. It just won't happen with LBJ & Russ on this team.
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2022 7:21 pm    Post subject:

What are the odds THT has spent time working on his game yet? Based on last year, I'd say 1 in 5.
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2022 6:10 am    Post subject:

waterman40 wrote:
What are the odds THT has spent time working on his game yet? Based on last year, I'd say 1 in 5.


Do we have verifiable information that he didn't work on his game? (As opposed to working on his game but not seeing results)
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2022 6:12 am    Post subject:

ThePageDude wrote:
waterman40 wrote:
What are the odds THT has spent time working on his game yet? Based on last year, I'd say 1 in 5.


Do we have verifiable information that he didn't work on his game? (As opposed to working on his game but not seeing results)


IIRC he got hurt in the preseason and that probably stalled a lot of work he put in the offseason.

His core game is similar to Russ. Slasher who is iffy shooting-wise.

Trading for Russ (and playing him alongside THT at times) was probably the worst thing for THT's development. Having a non-shooter like Russ around a suspect shooter like THT made his life difficult. But seeing him play sans Russ/LBJ at the end of the season shows you that he is talented, but was put in some pretty tough spots with the roster contstruction.
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2022 6:43 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:

<snip>

Trading for Russ (and playing him alongside THT at times) was probably the worst thing for THT's development. Having a non-shooter like Russ around a suspect shooter like THT made his life difficult. But seeing him play sans Russ/LBJ at the end of the season shows you that he is talented, but was put in some pretty tough spots with the roster contstruction.


This is true. Also true is that if he's to command a second substantive contract he needs to show one or more additional NBA-level skills on top of better defense e.g. off-ball shooting, mid-range, more diverse drives (left hand). The bottom-line question is does he feel the urgency to make these improvements yet or does he think he has plenty more time since he has 2 more years on his deal?
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2022 7:04 am    Post subject:

THT's game also doesn't blend with Lebron's. It's not just WB. He was usually having to share some floor time with Lebron. THT is a guy that you need to run your 2nd unit. That was what Frank Vogel was slowly developing him to do, based on preseason of 2020-21. Then, the Lakers trade all of Frank's wings and defensive players away and he need some length/size/D around Westbrook/Lebron. He went with THT and it sucked.

We really (bleep) up so many things with this course. THT's development was one of them. I've never seen him as a star in the making, but I definitely think he was on the right track to becoming our backup PG/6th man that takes control of the 2nd unit. But when we made all those changes, his role had to change as well because when Lebron sat that was when WB finally got to have the ball more the way he wants. If you have Caruso, Kuzma, Monk, Trez on your 2nd unit, when Lebron sits, now you could use THT as a ballhandler that can create a little.

Toronto wanted him, and their guy has a great eye for talent.

(bleep) show, and bad management all around. Don't be surprised if the Lakers trade him away only to see him become exactly what he was supposed to on the Lakers (6th man, go to bench creator, above average defender). All we needed to do last year was sign a guy like Monk, keep the roster in tact and add some small pieces, and await for a better opportunity to come. It surely would have (but beating a dead horse here).
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2022 9:08 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
THT's game also doesn't blend with Lebron's. It's not just WB. He was usually having to share some floor time with Lebron. THT is a guy that you need to run your 2nd unit. That was what Frank Vogel was slowly developing him to do, based on preseason of 2020-21. Then, the Lakers trade all of Frank's wings and defensive players away and he need some length/size/D around Westbrook/Lebron. He went with THT and it sucked.

We really (bleep) up so many things with this course. THT's development was one of them. I've never seen him as a star in the making, but I definitely think he was on the right track to becoming our backup PG/6th man that takes control of the 2nd unit. But when we made all those changes, his role had to change as well because when Lebron sat that was when WB finally got to have the ball more the way he wants. If you have Caruso, Kuzma, Monk, Trez on your 2nd unit, when Lebron sits, now you could use THT as a ballhandler that can create a little.

Toronto wanted him, and their guy has a great eye for talent.

(bleep) show, and bad management all around. Don't be surprised if the Lakers trade him away only to see him become exactly what he was supposed to on the Lakers (6th man, go to bench creator, above average defender). All we needed to do last year was sign a guy like Monk, keep the roster in tact and add some small pieces, and await for a better opportunity to come. It surely would have (but beating a dead horse here).


I’ve been saying this since last year, that is what THT best suited role at this point in time. To be the assassin off the bench and have all the freedom to get himself into rhythm. I really dunno what the Lakers or Vogel wanted to transform him to be something he is not yet. That’s not a good development especially for a young player that still need to polish his skills.


Last edited by CRoost on Wed May 18, 2022 9:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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oaktown_dimond
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2022 9:17 am    Post subject:

exaclty,

for a guy that grew up around basketball his whole life, what is Rob is thinking?

wolfpaclaker wrote:
THT's game also doesn't blend with Lebron's. It's not just WB. He was usually having to share some floor time with Lebron. THT is a guy that you need to run your 2nd unit. That was what Frank Vogel was slowly developing him to do, based on preseason of 2020-21. Then, the Lakers trade all of Frank's wings and defensive players away and he need some length/size/D around Westbrook/Lebron. He went with THT and it sucked.

We really (bleep) up so many things with this course. THT's development was one of them. I've never seen him as a star in the making, but I definitely think he was on the right track to becoming our backup PG/6th man that takes control of the 2nd unit. But when we made all those changes, his role had to change as well because when Lebron sat that was when WB finally got to have the ball more the way he wants. If you have Caruso, Kuzma, Monk, Trez on your 2nd unit, when Lebron sits, now you could use THT as a ballhandler that can create a little.

Toronto wanted him, and their guy has a great eye for talent.

(bleep) show, and bad management all around. Don't be surprised if the Lakers trade him away only to see him become exactly what he was supposed to on the Lakers (6th man, go to bench creator, above average defender). All we needed to do last year was sign a guy like Monk, keep the roster in tact and add some small pieces, and await for a better opportunity to come. It surely would have (but beating a dead horse here).
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Lakesh0wtime
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2022 1:06 pm    Post subject:

ThePageDude wrote:
waterman40 wrote:
What are the odds THT has spent time working on his game yet? Based on last year, I'd say 1 in 5.


Do we have verifiable information that he didn't work on his game? (As opposed to working on his game but not seeing results)


The game didn't slow down for him last year. He also wasn't in an optimized role.

He has a lot to improve, but the coach also needs to put him spots to succeed.
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Laker_Jocker
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2022 1:45 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
THT's game also doesn't blend with Lebron's. It's not just WB. He was usually having to share some floor time with Lebron. THT is a guy that you need to run your 2nd unit. That was what Frank Vogel was slowly developing him to do, based on preseason of 2020-21. Then, the Lakers trade all of Frank's wings and defensive players away and he need some length/size/D around Westbrook/Lebron. He went with THT and it sucked.

We really (bleep) up so many things with this course. THT's development was one of them. I've never seen him as a star in the making, but I definitely think he was on the right track to becoming our backup PG/6th man that takes control of the 2nd unit. But when we made all those changes, his role had to change as well because when Lebron sat that was when WB finally got to have the ball more the way he wants. If you have Caruso, Kuzma, Monk, Trez on your 2nd unit, when Lebron sits, now you could use THT as a ballhandler that can create a little.

Toronto wanted him, and their guy has a great eye for talent.

(bleep) show, and bad management all around. Don't be surprised if the Lakers trade him away only to see him become exactly what he was supposed to on the Lakers (6th man, go to bench creator, above average defender). All we needed to do last year was sign a guy like Monk, keep the roster in tact and add some small pieces, and await for a better opportunity to come. It surely would have (but beating a dead horse here).


I agree completely. Lakers have clearly asked too much/not developed THT properly due to circumstance. I am not a huge fan of how he plays but it was definitely a draft "win" to get him with an "extra" purchased second round pick.

It sort of is a self fulfilling prophecy coming - thrust him into a pressure role on a supposed championship team, play him out of position/out of fit, then stack a $10M value to performance price tag on his head = there is no way he is ever going to live up to "expectations" on the Lakers.

So, you are probably correct that the Lakers will ditch him soon and I also think that if he was on another team, he likely would be in the same discussion as guys like Dort, Bane, Clarkson, maybe even Poole that many covet..

The FO gets a lot of criticism (some of which is justified, some not) but there is definitely a pattern formed where they find young cheap talent and then ultimately mismanage it away...
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Lakesh0wtime
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2022 6:11 pm    Post subject:

Hopefully he and Austin have good summers.

It’s fun and stressful rooting for young players haha.
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2022 3:54 am    Post subject:

THT/Monk would have been a nice 2nd unit backcourt to develop. It was enough. Keep Trezz even as he's a good off the bench scorer, Kuz as he can give you defense (and sometimes go off) and one of startings wings (KCP likely) gets some time with that unit. Now you have some firepower and a real 2nd unit that can allow Lebron to rest and play well enough when AD is injured half the games.

Instead with the changes we had to go to Russell Westbrook time in this stretch and WB was good for 1 good game in 5. He was healthy I'll give him that. He wasn't effective.

EH, spilled milk, I guess.
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phantasyman
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2022 6:06 pm    Post subject:

THT and Monk will be all stars this season
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2022 8:20 am    Post subject:

phantasyman wrote:
THT and Monk will be all stars this season


I have a hard time believing this if we intend to play Lebron ball.
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 11:38 pm    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
phantasyman wrote:
THT and Monk will be all stars this season


I have a hard time believing this if we intend to play Lebron ball.


I have a hard time believing this if we play any style of ball.

I'm one of the people that was never that hard on THT either as I fully believe there's a lot of grey area that held him back and he simply was a horrible fit for the roster we had. I would not be the least bit shocked if he went somewhere and shined where a coach was actually competent about putting guys in positions that use there strengths especially young still developing players. I was still underwhelmed by him but the blame is far from just being on him for sure imo.

Outside of maybe some self induced Shroom hallucinatory state I don't see any situation either of those two have a chance in hell at being all stars next Season.. Not sure you could even trick a video game into accepting that one.
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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2022 10:59 am    Post subject:

Austin said he saw Talen working out at the Lakers facility during his Laker Nation interview. He’s not sitting on his ass like some would like to perpetuate.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:03 pm    Post subject:

Excited for how THT and Austin would be utilized by Ham.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:24 pm    Post subject:

Laker4lifer4real wrote:
Austin said he saw Talen working out at the Lakers facility during his Laker Nation interview. He’s not sitting on his ass like some would like to perpetuate.


if he is indeed working on his game, something other than driving layups, I will congratulate any sustained improvements that can be seen visually and statistically.

But he is a $10 million dollar a year player now, not a second round scrub. Not a lot of heart showed for his big deal, so he is still in the Westbrook doghouse with me.

Just play like you are trying to earn your salary and help the team win.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:42 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
THT's game also doesn't blend with Lebron's.


Lebron likely retires after next season so it really doesn't matter if Talen's game doesn't blend with Lebron's.

- Lonzo's game didn't blend with Lebron's
- Brandon's game didn't blend with Lebron's
- Julius' game didn't blend with Lebron's
- Ivica's game didn't blend with Lebron's

- Kyle's game blended with Lebron's and you guys hated him .
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Laker4lifer4real
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 8:53 am    Post subject:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/what-darvin-ham-s-comments-say-about-talen-horton-tucker-s-future-with-the-lakers/ar-AAYjjKz?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=cba1772ee5c847689399da07fbec97cc
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 8:57 am    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
THT's game also doesn't blend with Lebron's.


Lebron likely retires after next season so it really doesn't matter if Talen's game doesn't blend with Lebron's.

- Lonzo's game didn't blend with Lebron's
- Brandon's game didn't blend with Lebron's
- Julius' game didn't blend with Lebron's
- Ivica's game didn't blend with Lebron's

- Kyle's game blended with Lebron's and you guys hated him .


What? Lonzo's game fit perfectly with LBJ.

BI needed to be the man on his own team regardless to bloom. Not on LBJ.

Julius didn't play a single game with LBJ, so we don't know. Ask Magic/Rob why they let him go for NOTHING.

Ask Magic why he trade Zubac for what amounted to be nothing.
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Lakers wins and win%:
20-21: 42-30 (58% win)
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 8:32 am    Post subject:

Laker4lifer4real wrote:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/what-darvin-ham-s-comments-say-about-talen-horton-tucker-s-future-with-the-lakers/ar-AAYjjKz?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=cba1772ee5c847689399da07fbec97cc


Very interesting article.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 8:51 am    Post subject:

Laker4lifer4real wrote:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/what-darvin-ham-s-comments-say-about-talen-horton-tucker-s-future-with-the-lakers/ar-AAYjjKz?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=cba1772ee5c847689399da07fbec97cc


I fully believe if Russ is moved..THT finally pops off this year.

The most likely scenario though is THT is the one who is moved.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 9:56 am    Post subject:

Lakesh0wtime wrote:
Laker4lifer4real wrote:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/what-darvin-ham-s-comments-say-about-talen-horton-tucker-s-future-with-the-lakers/ar-AAYjjKz?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=cba1772ee5c847689399da07fbec97cc


I fully believe if Russ is moved..THT finally pops off this year.

The most likely scenario though is THT is the one who is moved.


To me, neither will be moved cause Pelnika is not attaching assets. Just need to keep them off the floor at the same time cause they are different versions of the same chess piece.
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