TALEN HORTON-TUCKER - He’s a 46th Pick!?!
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 127, 128, 129  Next

 
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 112270

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:05 am    Post subject:

lakersfan8 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
lakersfan8 wrote:
Even if DS is not here next season, I don't expect THT to start. Caruso can be the starting PG


I see that too if Dennis is gone and we don’t find another FA PG.

I will only use vet min to sign PG even if DS is gone. The draft pick and MLE should be used on a wing and center if no trade happens. Caruso + THT at the PG spot is not a bad option at all.


But again goes back to losing a cap asset for nothing. Whichever way you want to spin but objectively getting nothing back for Green/2020 1st hurts.
_________________
Never underestimate the heart of a champion.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
lakersfan8
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 2340

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:11 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
lakersfan8 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
lakersfan8 wrote:
Even if DS is not here next season, I don't expect THT to start. Caruso can be the starting PG


I see that too if Dennis is gone and we don’t find another FA PG.

I will only use vet min to sign PG even if DS is gone. The draft pick and MLE should be used on a wing and center if no trade happens. Caruso + THT at the PG spot is not a bad option at all.


But again goes back to losing a cap asset for nothing. Whichever way you want to spin but objectively getting nothing back for Green/2020 1st hurts.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I want to sign DS back whether is for a S&T this offseason or as a future trade asset.
My thought of "the draft pick and MLE should be used on a wing and center if no trade happens." won't change no matter whether DS is on the roster or not.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 112270

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:14 am    Post subject:

lakersfan8 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
lakersfan8 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
lakersfan8 wrote:
Even if DS is not here next season, I don't expect THT to start. Caruso can be the starting PG


I see that too if Dennis is gone and we don’t find another FA PG.

I will only use vet min to sign PG even if DS is gone. The draft pick and MLE should be used on a wing and center if no trade happens. Caruso + THT at the PG spot is not a bad option at all.


But again goes back to losing a cap asset for nothing. Whichever way you want to spin but objectively getting nothing back for Green/2020 1st hurts.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I want to sign DS back whether is for a S&T this offseason or as a future trade asset.
My thought of "the draft pick and MLE should be used on a wing and center if no trade happens." won't change no matter whether DS is on the roster or not.


Yeah. We have one bullet in the chamber so to speak. A paltry 6m mini MLE that could not have even been enough to sign Trezz last year.
_________________
Never underestimate the heart of a champion.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Lakesh0wtime
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 28 Mar 2016
Posts: 2037

PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:04 am    Post subject:

His first full offseason of his career.

He spoke about getting better on defense and shooting.

Let’s see what the youngin can do this summer. Excited to see how he looks next year
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
CRoost
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 21 Mar 2017
Posts: 3789

PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:56 am    Post subject:

Time to unleash him and give him consistent minutes off the bench. Growing pain is part of the process. I don’t think he will be a difference maker this year but if we can develop him , this is more prudent for us long term. And he can be an enticing asset for another star.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Sina
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 12 Jul 2015
Posts: 1643

PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:22 am    Post subject:

THT is a keeper
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LGFan
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 07 Jun 2021
Posts: 134

PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:06 am    Post subject:

CRoost wrote:
Time to unleash him and give him consistent minutes off the bench. Growing pain is part of the process. I don’t think he will be a difference maker this year but if we can develop him , this is more prudent for us long term. And he can be an enticing asset for another star.


we unleashed him and gave him consistent mins when it counted. He just made young guy mistakes... which is ok
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
vasashi17+
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 13 Dec 2019
Posts: 1423

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:26 am    Post subject:

THT can easily be poached from us by a team that has a minimum of about 11m in cap space. We won’t have the ability to match him as our RFA due to a Gilbert Arenas loophole.

Please see cap thread for further explanation.

Also S&t’ing him opens up a whole other can of worms #BYSea
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 112270

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:28 am    Post subject:

Remember, this team has to be a championship caliber team. Our window for contention is a bit smaller, so hoping THT can be a starting level PG may not be the way to go.

If Dennis goes for nothing, and we keep THT/AC, I would run AC first b/c of his defense. THT has a ways to go on defense/3s.
_________________
Never underestimate the heart of a champion.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
epic_
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 23 Jan 2020
Posts: 2873

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:52 am    Post subject:

Would you guys agree that the league caught on to a bit of THT in terms of how to defend him? Or was it that Phoenix actually defends and we got fortunate to play bad defensive teams last year in Portlandia, Houstonia and Denveria?
_________________
💜💛 🏆

Bron . AD . Alex . Lavine . Holmes
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 112270

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:54 am    Post subject:

epic_ wrote:
Would you guys agree that the league caught on to a bit of THT in terms of how to defend him? Or was it that Phoenix actually defends and we got fortunate to play bad defensive teams last year in Portlandia, Houstonia and Denveria?


He didn't play much in the playoffs last year.

This year, teams towards the end started understanding he won't shoot the jumper and will attack the rim with his right hand. This summer he needs to work on the 3 and his left hand, and varying up his attack to the rim.

Also, I noticed teams starting to pick on him on defense. He has the tools to be a good defender so I hope someone is helping him with that.
_________________
Never underestimate the heart of a champion.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Laker4lifer4real
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 15 Jul 2017
Posts: 1545

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:42 pm    Post subject:

epic_ wrote:
Would you guys agree that the league caught on to a bit of THT in terms of how to defend him? Or was it that Phoenix actually defends and we got fortunate to play bad defensive teams last year in Portlandia, Houstonia and Denveria?


THT scored 11 points in 16 minutes with 11 boards when Vogel finally played him in Game 5, and 12 points in 19 minutes Game 6. Even with AD injured if Vogel got his rotations right, we should have done much better. Phoenix really didn’t stop THT like Donut 🍩 Schroeder.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
activeverb
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 31065

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:57 pm    Post subject:

Laker4lifer4real wrote:
epic_ wrote:
Would you guys agree that the league caught on to a bit of THT in terms of how to defend him? Or was it that Phoenix actually defends and we got fortunate to play bad defensive teams last year in Portlandia, Houstonia and Denveria?


THT scored 11 points in 16 minutes with 11 boards when Vogel finally played him in Game 5, and 12 points in 19 minutes Game 6. Even with AD injured if Vogel got his rotations right, we should have done much better. Phoenix really didn’t stop THT like Donut 🍩 Schroeder.


Most of those stats were put together in garage time. In game 5, THT scored 7 points and 9 rebounds in the 4th quarter. When the quarter started, we were down by 30 points. Except for 3 minutes by Bridges, all the starters from both teams sat out the 4th. I wouldn't read too much significance into those 11 points and 11 boards.

Overall for the series, THT shot 46%-20%-60%. He played as crappy as everyone else on the team, and Phoenix didn't have any trouble stopping him.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Laker4lifer4real
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 15 Jul 2017
Posts: 1545

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:46 pm    Post subject:

Yes, he came in when we were down 30, that’s on Vogel. I don’t discount his points and rebounds that helped cut the lead almost to single digits. If not for Wes and Kuzma missing open 3s in that run and DS missing a layup, Phoenix was in for a close finish. Kid is 20 years old, he did well enough.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
ContagiousInspiration
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 9528
Location: Boulder ;)

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:50 am    Post subject:

Lookout league.. when we lock this guy up and remove his straight jacket

Him and Matthews play like they got something to prove... like they are feeling the game not just playing it.. getting that Motown funk on...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
activeverb
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 31065

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:48 am    Post subject:

Laker4lifer4real wrote:
Yes, he came in when we were down 30, that’s on Vogel. I don’t discount his points and rebounds that helped cut the lead almost to single digits. If not for Wes and Kuzma missing open 3s in that run and DS missing a layup, Phoenix was in for a close finish. Kid is 20 years old, he did well enough.


We were never close to single digits in that game. The entire fourth we were down pretty much 30. It was a complete garbage time quarter from beginning to end

You're probably thinking of the final game. He hit three shots in a row in the end of the 4th quarter which almost brought us to a double digit deficit.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Laker4lifer4real
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 15 Jul 2017
Posts: 1545

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:03 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Laker4lifer4real wrote:
Yes, he came in when we were down 30, that’s on Vogel. I don’t discount his points and rebounds that helped cut the lead almost to single digits. If not for Wes and Kuzma missing open 3s in that run and DS missing a layup, Phoenix was in for a close finish. Kid is 20 years old, he did well enough.


We were never close to single digits in that game. The entire fourth we were down pretty much 30. It was a complete garbage time quarter from beginning to end

You're probably thinking of the final game. He hit three shots in a row in the end of the 4th quarter which almost brought us to a double digit deficit.


I think your right. I must have blocked out all memories of the game Worthy called the worst he had ever seen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Mike@LG
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 64284
Location: Orange County, CA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:03 am    Post subject:

epic_ wrote:
Would you guys agree that the league caught on to a bit of THT in terms of how to defend him? Or was it that Phoenix actually defends and we got fortunate to play bad defensive teams last year in Portlandia, Houstonia and Denveria?


In the playoffs last year, he played a wing spot, tertiary position, just had to spot up and attack closeouts.

This year, he was asked to run an offense as the lead guy or secondary guy. Just a different level of decision making.
_________________
Resident Car Nut.

Caruso/Dennis
KCP/Matthews/
LBJ/THT
AD/Kuzma/
Gasol/Harrell/Kieff/

I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
activeverb
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 31065

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:14 am    Post subject:

vasashi17+ wrote:
THT can easily be poached from us by a team that has a minimum of about 11m in cap space. We won’t have the ability to match him as our RFA due to a Gilbert Arenas loophole.

Please see cap thread for further explanation.

Also S&t’ing him opens up a whole other can of worms #BYSea


I believe the most other teams can offer him in the first year is the MLE, and we can offer 5% more. So we will be able to match any offer.

The issue is the poison pill. A team can only offer THT the mid-level for the first two years of the contract, but they can jump up to the max in the third year if they have cap space. We'd still be able to match, but the cost could be significant.

That's assuming any team values THT so much to make that kind of offer, which I am doubtful of.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
vasashi17+
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 13 Dec 2019
Posts: 1423

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:34 pm    Post subject:

@AV: yeah I was embellishing a bit haha. You’re right about the poison pill aspect cause we are cap strapped and wouldn’t have the ability to rearrange avg salary of a new THT contract on our cap sheet. That potential 3rd year price hike could deter us to match. Also if we’re setting up for potentially being a hard capped team again, we just might elect to use our full MLE to match THT rather than match using his early bird rights and then potentially adding an additional 10m to the books via the available full MLE. So I’ll just walk (scale) back that we wouldn’t have the ability to match. Let me rephrase by saying, we could be hard pressed and elect to kick the tires on THT if another cap having team ejects to use the poison pill loophole of the Arenas provision.

Quote:
Coon: If the player is a restricted free agent with two years of service and qualifies for the Early Bird exception, then the player's prior team may use the Early Bird exception to match an offer sheet he receives from another team under the Gilbert Arenas provision (see question number 43. This is true even if the starting salary for the Early Bird exception is lower than the starting salary in the offer sheet, which is based on the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception.


Either way, I can see the league trying to place us in a tough spot for sure. Best way to do that is with our free agents and stripping us from our our already limited asset pool.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
activeverb
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 31065

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:43 pm    Post subject:

vasashi17+ wrote:
@AV: yeah I was embellishing a bit haha. You’re right about the poison pill aspect cause we are cap strapped and wouldn’t have the ability to rearrange avg salary of a new THT contract on our cap sheet. That potential 3rd year price hike could deter us to match. Also if we’re setting up for potentially being a hard capped team again, we just might elect to use our full MLE to match THT rather than match using his early bird rights and then potentially adding an additional 10m to the books via the available full MLE.


Well, we wouldn't use the MLE, because we have his bird rights. I guess you are thinking that if we spend a lot on THT we would choose not to use our mini-MLE (about $6 million -- we don't have the full MLE because we are over cap).

In any case, I'll believe that some team will value THT at a superstar price when I see it. That would be some gamble to take.

vasashi17+ wrote:
Either way, I can see the league trying to place us in a tough spot for sure. Best way to do that is with our free agents and stripping us from our our already limited asset pool.


I don't think teams will make an offer to THT just to stick it to us. They will be taking a huge gamble on the guy, so they'll only do it because they think he has the potential to become something special.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
vasashi17+
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 13 Dec 2019
Posts: 1423

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:22 pm    Post subject:

@AV: They could get to THT to get to Rich. We know that game all too well.

A lot of mechanisms will be in play this summer, but I just can’t rule out being hard capped again. I’m sure we don’t want to, but maybe we’ll be forced into doing so. There are likely S&t targets (see Cp3, Lowry, DeRozan, Dipo, Dragic) will be in the market for, which means the only available MLE we’ll have is the full, not the mini.

Also the full MLE is one of our only major tools in adding to a roster as long as we dont breach 143m in using it. So if we make it a point to match a THT offer sheet @ the MLE amount (~10m) using his bird right exception rather than our MLE, and in addition try to retain all our free agents pushing us that much closer to the 143m apron, then our only resort will be to use the miniMLE, essentially forcing our hand in not using the full MLE even if we wanted to.

I really do believe THT will be targeted either by someone’s MLE or a cap having team looking to poison our books. Either way, I anticipate we will be pressed in losing the full MLE where we outright can’t use it or forced to use it on THT as a negotiating tactic to sway our free agents in cooperating to contracts that fit under the hard cap (see Kcp last offseason...dude could have gotten a lot more if we weren’t hardcapped...but then again it was fellow Klutch klient Trez that hardcapped us, so maybe that made it more palatable for Kcp/Rich to take our deal; just for thoroughness sake, Wes and the use of the BAE also hard capped us).

Anyways it’s going to be interesting, but wow are there a lot of sticking point to “improving” our roster this summer.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
ContagiousInspiration
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 9528
Location: Boulder ;)

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:24 pm    Post subject:

reading through this it seems we can pay the most because of all the rookie contract rules etc.. some Gilbert Arenas rule..

We can give him approx 20mil over the next two years and negotiate again after??

https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2021/2/8/22272900/lakers-talen-horton-tucker-free-agency-contract-explainer-arenas-rule
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
activeverb
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 31065

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:04 pm    Post subject:

vasashi17+ wrote:
I really do believe THT will be targeted either by someone’s MLE or a cap having team looking to poison our books.


I think that's just Laker fan paranoia. The MLE is too important to most teams to throw away just to hurt another team. Your point is kind of a chicken and egg thing anyway. If losing THT is a big enough deal to hurt us, he's probably worth whatever amount a team gives him.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
activeverb
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 31065

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:07 pm    Post subject:

ContagiousInspiration wrote:
reading through this it seems we can pay the most because of all the rookie contract rules etc.. some Gilbert Arenas rule..

We can give him approx 20mil over the next two years and negotiate again after??

https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2021/2/8/22272900/lakers-talen-horton-tucker-free-agency-contract-explainer-arenas-rule



Basically, we can give him the MLE plus 5% for the next two years, and up to the max for the following two years. Other teams can give him the MLE for two years, and then up to the max for the following two years.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 127, 128, 129  Next
Page 128 of 129
Jump to:  

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum






Graphics by uberzev
© 1995-2018 LakersGround.net. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy. Terms of Use.
LakersGround is an unofficial news source serving the fan community since 1995.
We are in no way associated with the Los Angeles Lakers or the National Basketball Association.


Powered by phpBB