TALEN HORTON-TUCKER still a Laker, baby!
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DancingBarry
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:56 pm    Post subject:

He's got potential to be a great defender. Just needs time, IMO. Needs experience on reading plays off ball and getting more familiar with various players. But he's got all the tools with the footspeed, massive wingspan, massive hands and the right coaches.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:28 pm    Post subject:

I’m guessing he’s still adjusting to the speed of the Pro game. More experience will both cut down reaction time and give him greater familiarity with different actions. That’s why I’m in the camp of wanting him to get significant reps in the regular season. I’m sure there will be frustrations, but if he remains focused and gets good coaching, he will improve greatly imo.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:47 pm    Post subject:

https://twitter.com/overtime/status/1437852814726860806?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1437852814726860806%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-12158514933259981508.ampproject.net%2F2109032350000%2Fframe.html
This is where being mentored by Lebron will help. “Don’t even look at it T”
Shooting based on muscle memory, not the rim. Knowing the spots. Having the confidence to quickly let it fly. Putting in the work to know the force and spin needed for it to go in without looking before the defender closes.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:12 pm    Post subject:

Laker4lifer4real wrote:
https://twitter.com/overtime/status/1437852814726860806?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1437852814726860806%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-12158514933259981508.ampproject.net%2F2109032350000%2Fframe.html
This is where being mentored by Lebron will help. “Don’t even look at it T”
Shooting based on muscle memory, not the rim. Knowing the spots. Having the confidence to quickly let it fly. Putting in the work to know the force and spin needed for it to go in without looking before the defender closes.


I have one critique on his shooting form. He short arms his shot where he fails to extend his right arm on the shot release. I was hoping he would fix this working with a shooting coach.

I believe this affects the consistency on the shot as it is more difficult to use his shooting touch to control the distance. Lebron has a similar issue along with a recoil of the arm which I don't mind as much but his up and down seasons and game to game consistency reflects this issue.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:22 am    Post subject:

https://sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/lakers-talen-horton-tucker-goes-140010707.html

Pretty good since that was the Zion, Ja, RJ Barrett class.

“For his career, Horton-Tucker has averaged 16.3 points, 4.9 assists, 4.6 rebounds, 1.9 steals and 1.1 threes per 75 possessions. LaMelo Ball is the only player in league history to match or exceed all those marks through an age-20 season.

If THT backed up those wide-ranging contributions with an average 3-point percentage, he would be even higher up this list.”
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:35 pm    Post subject:

Laker4lifer4real wrote:


“For his career, Horton-Tucker has averaged 16.3 points, 4.9 assists, 4.6 rebounds, 1.9 steals and 1.1 threes per 75 possessions. LaMelo Ball is the only player in league history to match or exceed all those marks through an age-20 season.

.”


This sounds like statistical shenanigans to me.

You pick five statistical categories and make the arbitrary cutoff for each category to be one players career marks.

This gives him an extreme advantage, because it cuts out players who might be a tiny bit below him in one category but much better than him in the four other categories.

It sounds like it might be impressive if you don't think about it too hard, but it doesn't necessarily tell you anything.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:36 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Laker4lifer4real wrote:


“For his career, Horton-Tucker has averaged 16.3 points, 4.9 assists, 4.6 rebounds, 1.9 steals and 1.1 threes per 75 possessions. LaMelo Ball is the only player in league history to match or exceed all those marks through an age-20 season.

.”


This sounds like statistical shenanigans to me.

You pick five statistical categories and make the arbitrary cutoff for each category to be one players career marks.

This gives him an extreme advantage, because it cuts out players who might be a tiny bit below him in one category but much better than him in the four other categories.

It sounds like it might be impressive if you don't think about it too hard, but it doesn't necessarily tell you anything.


He passes it on the eye test though.

THT is a bucket getter through and through. Despite not having a jump shot last season, the kid got buckets just by being ultra aggressive attacking the rim. If he were a number 1 option on a rebuilding team, the kid would have averaged at least 20 points.

With a jump shot, his ceiling becomes limitless.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:11 pm    Post subject:

Megaton wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Laker4lifer4real wrote:


“For his career, Horton-Tucker has averaged 16.3 points, 4.9 assists, 4.6 rebounds, 1.9 steals and 1.1 threes per 75 possessions. LaMelo Ball is the only player in league history to match or exceed all those marks through an age-20 season.

.”


This sounds like statistical shenanigans to me.

You pick five statistical categories and make the arbitrary cutoff for each category to be one players career marks.

This gives him an extreme advantage, because it cuts out players who might be a tiny bit below him in one category but much better than him in the four other categories.

It sounds like it might be impressive if you don't think about it too hard, but it doesn't necessarily tell you anything.


He passes it on the eye test though.

THT is a bucket getter through and through. Despite not having a jump shot last season, the kid got buckets just by being ultra aggressive attacking the rim. If he were a number 1 option on a rebuilding team, the kid would have averaged at least 20 points.

With a jump shot, his ceiling becomes limitless.


THT with a jump shot? Isn't that like saying the Planet Neptune, with an oxygen atmosphere and 1.5 billion miles closer to the sun, is a hospitable planet for human life?

I hope the kid can do it , but his jumper is closer to Ben Simmons than Kent Bazemore right now....
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:15 pm    Post subject:

Megaton wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Laker4lifer4real wrote:


“For his career, Horton-Tucker has averaged 16.3 points, 4.9 assists, 4.6 rebounds, 1.9 steals and 1.1 threes per 75 possessions. LaMelo Ball is the only player in league history to match or exceed all those marks through an age-20 season.

.”


This sounds like statistical shenanigans to me.

You pick five statistical categories and make the arbitrary cutoff for each category to be one players career marks.

This gives him an extreme advantage, because it cuts out players who might be a tiny bit below him in one category but much better than him in the four other categories.

It sounds like it might be impressive if you don't think about it too hard, but it doesn't necessarily tell you anything.


He passes it on the eye test though.

THT is a bucket getter through and through. Despite not having a jump shot last season, the kid got buckets just by being ultra aggressive attacking the rim. If he were a number 1 option on a rebuilding team, the kid would have averaged at least 20 points.

With a jump shot, his ceiling becomes limitless.


My thoughts as well. Just gives numbers to what I’ve been seeing. He’s going to learn the game and get the right habits with this crew. He’s going to
need to be really efficient scoring to take shots from LBJ, AD, Russ, Carmelo, etc. So his all around game will develop and he’s not just going to be asked to score.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:37 pm    Post subject:

waterman40 wrote:
Megaton wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Laker4lifer4real wrote:


“For his career, Horton-Tucker has averaged 16.3 points, 4.9 assists, 4.6 rebounds, 1.9 steals and 1.1 threes per 75 possessions. LaMelo Ball is the only player in league history to match or exceed all those marks through an age-20 season.

.”


This sounds like statistical shenanigans to me.

You pick five statistical categories and make the arbitrary cutoff for each category to be one players career marks.

This gives him an extreme advantage, because it cuts out players who might be a tiny bit below him in one category but much better than him in the four other categories.

It sounds like it might be impressive if you don't think about it too hard, but it doesn't necessarily tell you anything.


He passes it on the eye test though.

THT is a bucket getter through and through. Despite not having a jump shot last season, the kid got buckets just by being ultra aggressive attacking the rim. If he were a number 1 option on a rebuilding team, the kid would have averaged at least 20 points.

With a jump shot, his ceiling becomes limitless.


THT with a jump shot? Isn't that like saying the Planet Neptune, with an oxygen atmosphere and 1.5 billion miles closer to the sun, is a hospitable planet for human life?

I hope the kid can do it , but his jumper is closer to Ben Simmons than Kent Bazemore right now....


Uhhh…no. THT ain’t scared of shooting for one unlike Simmons. And he’s shown flashes of makes and good form on his jump shots. It’s way above Simmons level.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:33 am    Post subject:

waterman40 wrote:
Megaton wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Laker4lifer4real wrote:


“For his career, Horton-Tucker has averaged 16.3 points, 4.9 assists, 4.6 rebounds, 1.9 steals and 1.1 threes per 75 possessions. LaMelo Ball is the only player in league history to match or exceed all those marks through an age-20 season.

.”


This sounds like statistical shenanigans to me.

You pick five statistical categories and make the arbitrary cutoff for each category to be one players career marks.

This gives him an extreme advantage, because it cuts out players who might be a tiny bit below him in one category but much better than him in the four other categories.

It sounds like it might be impressive if you don't think about it too hard, but it doesn't necessarily tell you anything.


He passes it on the eye test though.

THT is a bucket getter through and through. Despite not having a jump shot last season, the kid got buckets just by being ultra aggressive attacking the rim. If he were a number 1 option on a rebuilding team, the kid would have averaged at least 20 points.

With a jump shot, his ceiling becomes limitless.


THT with a jump shot? Isn't that like saying the Planet Neptune, with an oxygen atmosphere and 1.5 billion miles closer to the sun, is a hospitable planet for human life?

I hope the kid can do it , but his jumper is closer to Ben Simmons than Kent Bazemore right now....


Were you high when you wrote this lmao
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:47 am    Post subject:

waterman40 wrote:
THT with a jump shot? Isn't that like saying the Planet Neptune, with an oxygen atmosphere and 1.5 billion miles closer to the sun, is a hospitable planet for human life?

I hope the kid can do it , but his jumper is closer to Ben Simmons than Kent Bazemore right now....


He's 20 years old man. He's shot 28.5% on 2 threes per game to date. Ben Simmons has shot a total of 34 threes in 4 seasons and shot 14.7%.

Simmons is a 59.7% free throw shooter. THT 76.7%. THT also shot 47.8% on his mid-range jumpers.

Lakers fans should know better by now. Just in the past few years they claimed Lonzo would never be a decent shooter, and watch him blossom into a 38% three point shooter. They complained that Brandon Ingram was a below average low volume three point shooter, and watched him turn into a 39% three point shooter on 6.2 volume the year after trading him. They watched Randle go from a guy who never shot above 27.8% from three as a Laker into a 41% on 5.5 threes per game guy last season.

Shooting is the easiest skill to improve through repetition.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:22 am    Post subject:

I get all the THT love, but man, it isn't like we have young ins shoot well while they are Lakers here. DLO was probably the last young Laker who could shoot from the outside. Young guys just don't have the stones here, when it comes to perimeter shooting.

Also, I think THT is going to have some competition for minutes: Bazemore, Dunn, Rondo, and maybe Monk may all be better shooting the basketball that THT, especially further than a layup from the basket.

I really hope THT earns that $9 million a year and didn't spend the whole summer working on a rap album. If he shoots better than 35% from 3, I'll give him credit, if he stinks it up with 28% again, I'll drop him like a Hot Pocket!
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:30 am    Post subject:

J.C. Smith wrote:
waterman40 wrote:
THT with a jump shot? Isn't that like saying the Planet Neptune, with an oxygen atmosphere and 1.5 billion miles closer to the sun, is a hospitable planet for human life?

I hope the kid can do it , but his jumper is closer to Ben Simmons than Kent Bazemore right now....


He's 20 years old man. He's shot 28.5% on 2 threes per game to date. Ben Simmons has shot a total of 34 threes in 4 seasons and shot 14.7%.

Simmons is a 59.7% free throw shooter. THT 76.7%. THT also shot 47.8% on his mid-range jumpers.

Lakers fans should know better by now. Just in the past few years they claimed Lonzo would never be a decent shooter, and watch him blossom into a 38% three point shooter. They complained that Brandon Ingram was a below average low volume three point shooter, and watched him turn into a 39% three point shooter on 6.2 volume the year after trading him. They watched Randle go from a guy who never shot above 27.8% from three as a Laker into a 41% on 5.5 threes per game guy last season.

Shooting is the easiest skill to improve through repetition.


All of those guys improved AFTER they were on different teams. Possible that we don't have the right "shooting" coach?
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:34 pm    Post subject:

Lurkernomore wrote:
J.C. Smith wrote:
waterman40 wrote:
THT with a jump shot? Isn't that like saying the Planet Neptune, with an oxygen atmosphere and 1.5 billion miles closer to the sun, is a hospitable planet for human life?

I hope the kid can do it , but his jumper is closer to Ben Simmons than Kent Bazemore right now....


He's 20 years old man. He's shot 28.5% on 2 threes per game to date. Ben Simmons has shot a total of 34 threes in 4 seasons and shot 14.7%.

Simmons is a 59.7% free throw shooter. THT 76.7%. THT also shot 47.8% on his mid-range jumpers.

Lakers fans should know better by now. Just in the past few years they claimed Lonzo would never be a decent shooter, and watch him blossom into a 38% three point shooter. They complained that Brandon Ingram was a below average low volume three point shooter, and watched him turn into a 39% three point shooter on 6.2 volume the year after trading him. They watched Randle go from a guy who never shot above 27.8% from three as a Laker into a 41% on 5.5 threes per game guy last season.

Shooting is the easiest skill to improve through repetition.


All of those guys improved AFTER they were on different teams. Possible that we don't have the right "shooting" coach?


No. The most likely reason is the freedom all of those players have away from the need to constantly defer to Lebron & AD. BI & Randle have really shined being able to create their own games. They might have never been able to do so with two of the best in the game. Neither would have supplanted Lebron or AD in the pecking order.

Ball is seeing the result of the work he's put in. Great for him.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:34 pm    Post subject:

Lurkernomore wrote:
J.C. Smith wrote:
waterman40 wrote:
THT with a jump shot? Isn't that like saying the Planet Neptune, with an oxygen atmosphere and 1.5 billion miles closer to the sun, is a hospitable planet for human life?

I hope the kid can do it , but his jumper is closer to Ben Simmons than Kent Bazemore right now....


He's 20 years old man. He's shot 28.5% on 2 threes per game to date. Ben Simmons has shot a total of 34 threes in 4 seasons and shot 14.7%.

Simmons is a 59.7% free throw shooter. THT 76.7%. THT also shot 47.8% on his mid-range jumpers.

Lakers fans should know better by now. Just in the past few years they claimed Lonzo would never be a decent shooter, and watch him blossom into a 38% three point shooter. They complained that Brandon Ingram was a below average low volume three point shooter, and watched him turn into a 39% three point shooter on 6.2 volume the year after trading him. They watched Randle go from a guy who never shot above 27.8% from three as a Laker into a 41% on 5.5 threes per game guy last season.

Shooting is the easiest skill to improve through repetition.


All of those guys improved AFTER they were on different teams. Possible that we don't have the right "shooting" coach?


No. The most likely reason is the freedom all of those players have away from the need to constantly defer to Lebron & AD. BI & Randle have really shined being able to create their own games. They might have never been able to do so with two of the best in the game. Neither would have supplanted Lebron or AD in the pecking order.

Ball is seeing the result of the work he's put in. Great for him.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:38 pm    Post subject:

Lurkernomore wrote:
J.C. Smith wrote:
waterman40 wrote:
THT with a jump shot? Isn't that like saying the Planet Neptune, with an oxygen atmosphere and 1.5 billion miles closer to the sun, is a hospitable planet for human life?

I hope the kid can do it , but his jumper is closer to Ben Simmons than Kent Bazemore right now....


He's 20 years old man. He's shot 28.5% on 2 threes per game to date. Ben Simmons has shot a total of 34 threes in 4 seasons and shot 14.7%.

Simmons is a 59.7% free throw shooter. THT 76.7%. THT also shot 47.8% on his mid-range jumpers.

Lakers fans should know better by now. Just in the past few years they claimed Lonzo would never be a decent shooter, and watch him blossom into a 38% three point shooter. They complained that Brandon Ingram was a below average low volume three point shooter, and watched him turn into a 39% three point shooter on 6.2 volume the year after trading him. They watched Randle go from a guy who never shot above 27.8% from three as a Laker into a 41% on 5.5 threes per game guy last season.

Shooting is the easiest skill to improve through repetition.


All of those guys improved AFTER they were on different teams. Possible that we don't have the right "shooting" coach?


Or I mean... They continued to develop? All of those guys showed tons of potential while on the Lakers especially Ingram, I thought it was pretty obvious from the beginning he'd be a special player but people simply aren't patient. We were able to trade them for a generational level talent and did it which was the right choice.

The THT shooting compared to Simmons talk is nothing but hyperbolic nonsense like something Skip would say to get hate views. He has no issue whatsoever confidence wise and has had stretches where the shot was falling. He just simply needs some more time, the kid is barely still 20 years old and has shown nothing but great work ethic from all accounts i've heard.

If THT stays here you'll see him improve quite a bit over the next few years and if they happen to trade him..... You'll see him make improvements elsewhere. Whether he's "working on a rap album" or not I have no idea but with the videos we've seen of him thus far he's clearly putting in the work like usual when he has the time.

Call me crazy but I actually love his progress up to this point, he obviously still has a long ways to go but I see someone that can be potentially elite on both ends of the ball.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:47 pm    Post subject:

I guess people forget THT’s Game Winning 3 over his idol Derrick Rose vs. the Knicks. You think Simmons has the balls to do that??? Can’t wait until some of the same posters start calling THT their favorite Laker to watch.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:26 pm    Post subject:

Hey I like THT, he has skills and he is still very young.

But he has a lot to learn, and he needs to develop an outside shot if he is to be successful. I did not mean that THT has Simmons mental block, but his shooting prowess is more BS than Bazemore, etc. at this stage of his young career.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:31 pm    Post subject:

Laker4lifer4real wrote:
I guess people forget THT’s Game Winning 3 over his idol Derrick Rose vs. the Knicks. You think Simmons has the balls to do that??? Can’t wait until some of the same posters start calling THT their favorite Laker to watch.


https://youtu.be/xwgWf4rY8Dg?t=9m37s
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:12 am    Post subject:

I do think a Westbrook/THT backcourt is exciting on paper in terms of the talent. Then AD/Bron duo upfront. You probably want a knock down shooter in there who has some size, maybe a Melo/Ariza.

Man, we just have so many options. Training camp will be interesting.

I would not rule out THT starting, at least for now. He got a big contract. He has been touted as a future starter for a while. It certainly depends on his 3 ball, but it is also about defense with Vogel. If you have Westbrook, THT, Ariza. That is quite a lot of length there.

Russell Westbrook wingspan is 6'8.
THT's wingspan is what 7'1, I think.

You add Bron, AD. Now it comes down to DeAndre, who has a huge wingspan as well.

The driving lanes, and all that. Just there won't be anywhere to go. Defensive stops, then RUN. In the halfcourt, rely on elite individual skill. and size advantage. The only question would be whether to start Ariza or DAJ for those 15 min (7.5 min each half).

Think about this - a few years ago.We started McGee/AD/Bron/Green/Bradley. Other than Green (who only shot 36-38% on threes for us) no one was really a stand out shooter. This group we have right now, probably is far more talented, even bigger with terms of long arms, and could be even more defensively potent.

Could totally see a Westbrook/THT/Bron/AD unit start, with either Ariza or DAJ. Just based on defensive principles. Vogel loves his long armed, bigger players that are willing to defend. So IMO if THT is willing to defend, I think he will get a shot at starting. 7'1 wingspan, can rebound, push the ball. I feel the Lakers will want that around AD/Bron/Westbrook. Unless he is god awful from 3, he will be in consideration to start as long as he is dedicated to defense.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:10 pm    Post subject:

J.C. Smith wrote:
waterman40 wrote:
THT with a jump shot? Isn't that like saying the Planet Neptune, with an oxygen atmosphere and 1.5 billion miles closer to the sun, is a hospitable planet for human life?

I hope the kid can do it , but his jumper is closer to Ben Simmons than Kent Bazemore right now....


He's 20 years old man. He's shot 28.5% on 2 threes per game to date. Ben Simmons has shot a total of 34 threes in 4 seasons and shot 14.7%.

Simmons is a 59.7% free throw shooter. THT 76.7%. THT also shot 47.8% on his mid-range jumpers.

Lakers fans should know better by now. Just in the past few years they claimed Lonzo would never be a decent shooter, and watch him blossom into a 38% three point shooter. They complained that Brandon Ingram was a below average low volume three point shooter, and watched him turn into a 39% three point shooter on 6.2 volume the year after trading him. They watched Randle go from a guy who never shot above 27.8% from three as a Laker into a 41% on 5.5 threes per game guy last season.

Shooting is the easiest skill to improve through repetition.


Excellent points, all around. I hated to lose Alex Caruso, but I would have hated it even more to lose THT, as I think he might even have All-Star potential.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:12 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
I would not rule out THT starting, at least for now.


Right now, I think the starting spots (apart from Lebron, AD and Westbrook) are wide open.

I don't see why THT wouldn't be in the running, but I have no reason to assume at this point he is more likely to come out of the scrum than anyone else.

As others have said, THT would need to show a dramatic improvement in 3-point shooting in camp and preseason. Could it happen? Sure. Is there any particular reason right now to expect it to happen? Not that I know of.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:06 pm    Post subject:

Its going to depend on matchups - when we play a big team with a big time center, its going to be Howard or Jordan at center, Davis, Lebron, and since Russ is the PG, the SG is going to have to be a strong outside shooter, which I think is Ellington, Dunn or maybe Bazemore.

If Davis is center, then its Lebron at PF, Russ at PG, so the SG and SF are open. My guess is that Bazemore is the SF, unless you think THT is a good enough defender to handle the many good scoring SF's in the league. SG is open, and it could be a good competition between Dunn and THT, and whoever is the better shooter I think gets the nod.

Really I think Bazemore is the SF and Dunn is the SG, with THT being similar to Russ and he plays the majority of the backup PG minutes.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:11 pm    Post subject:

I expect THT to win the starting SG gig and become a double digit scorer. Of course, he'll have to become a solid defender to get minutes with Vogel, so I also expect him to be a good on that side of the ball.
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